Re: [TramsDownUnder] Digest for tramsdownunder@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 3 topics

[terr...@bigpond.com]

If the powers that be look around the world they will see that some cities have VERY unobtrusive overhead and have made maximum use of the attachment of span wires to buildings, whereas others have ignored buildings and instead used massive RSJsas supports

Perhaps just for once we could use World's best 

Cheers

Terry

Terence Boardman OAM

E:-   terr...@bigpond.com

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P :-   0299398297

My Garratt assessment drive in South Africa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMKZrpoZ8wY

On Tue Jun 30 2026 <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

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• Smoking Sydney trams... - 3 Updates
  
• No bus lanes - 1 Update
  
• Tram vs Bus - 1949 - 2 Updates
  

Smoking Sydney trams...

Matthew Geier <mat...@sleeper.apana.org.au>: Jun 29 01:47PM +1000 Looks like another Sydney Citadis decided to let the magic smoke out this morning, suffering a 'thermal event' on the APS section of George Street.   That makes about 4 'thermal events' this year. There seems to be a pattern forming.....   They are more spectacular than actually dangerous - the batteries are in a metal box that is apparently rated to contain a full on fire for 30 minutes or something, more than enough time to evacuate and for the firies to arrive and drown it.

hun...@optusnet.com.au <hun...@optusnet.com.au>: Jun 29 06:21AM All the more reason to convert this section to standard overhead wiring. Doubtless the battery equipment is quite heavy and could then be removed, providing for economies in operation. Could also allow for a direct service from Dulwich Hill to Circular Quay? BUT - Will the replacement overhead obscure the Lord Mayor's view from the Town Hall balcony?! Cheers. ________________________________ From: 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> Sent: Monday, 29 June 2026 1:47 PM To: TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> Subject: [TramsDownUnder] Smoking Sydney trams...   Looks like another Sydney Citadis decided to let the magic smoke out this morning, suffering a 'thermal event' on the APS section of George Street.   That makes about 4 'thermal events' this year. There seems to be a pattern forming.....   They are more spectacular than actually dangerous - the batteries are in a metal box that is apparently rated to contain a full on fire for 30 minutes or something, more than enough time to evacuate and for the firies to arrive and drown it.       -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TramsDownUnder" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tramsdownunde...@googlegroups.com<mailto:tramsdownunder+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/CAG-%3DV-Kr-M5GYY_bo3Vquq7BGia8poy3ZoP0-PUvLjuMna1%2BTQ%40mail.gmail.com<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/CAG-%3DV-Kr-M5GYY_bo3Vquq7BGia8poy3ZoP0-PUvLjuMna1%2BTQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

TP <histor...@smartchat.net.au>: Jun 29 05:35AM -0700 Passengers escape unharmed as Sydney light rail tram catches fire in city centre   A Sydney light rail tram caught fire near the QVB on Monday, forcing passengers to evacuate as smoke billowed along York St. Daily Teegraph Ashleigh Richardson June 29, 2026 - 10:07PM   [image: Next video thumbnail]   [image: Next video thumbnail]   A light rail tram caught fire near Sydney’s QVB on Monday, forcing passengers to alight.   Flames erupted from the middle of the tram about 9am and smoke billowed along York St.   Emergency services attended and said all passengers and the driver escaped unharmed.   The L2 Randwick and L3 Kingsford lines were disrupted until 10.30am.   Transdev is now investigating the cause of the fire. [image: Smoke seen coming from the top of a tram.] Smoke seen coming from the top of a tram. [image: Flames were also seen coming from the roof.] Flames were also seen coming from the roof.   Tony P (not a fan of the Crapadis)

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No bus lanes

Richard Youl <tress...@icloud.com>: Jun 29 06:28PM +1000 Today the State Government finally admitted that the so-called metro buses (which apparently are a fairly standard single articulated diesel bus in a ‘fancy’ body) will not get dedicated bus roads but will get clogged up in traffic jams as do current buses at times along the Gold Coast Highway.   Considering the government used the comparatively small number of anti-tram protesters in Palm Beach as an excuse to abandon the long planned Stage 4 to the airport and NSW, it is surprising that this rather Lriberal part of the state informed by a right wing newspaper should, in the poll below, so strongly criticise the government’s tram-avoiding decision.   This story originally began with a confrontation between cyclists and a bus driver largely because the road is too narrow for both and the future outlook of no bus roads

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Tram vs Bus - 1949

Mal Rowe <mal....@gmail.com>: Jun 29 01:28PM +1000 In the middle of last century it was not common for trams to replace buses - but in February 1949 the Melbourne Herald had the good grace to acknowledge that happening in Melbourne.   Mal Rowe - leafing through books of press clippings

TP <histor...@smartchat.net.au>: Jun 28 08:51PM -0700 If only we'd seen such a cartoon in Sydney.   I must be getting old. When you wrote "the middle of last century", my mind jumped straight to the 19th century!   Tony P   On Monday, 29 June 2026 at 13:28:38 UTC+10 Mal Rowe wrote:

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[Mal Rowe]

On 01/07/2026 09:33, terry.boa via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> If the powers that be look around the world they will see that some
> cities have VERY unobtrusive overhead and have made maximum use of the
> attachment of span wires to buildings, whereas others have ignored
> buildings and instead used massive RSJsas supports
> Perhaps just for once we could use World's best
>

Perhaps another Australian city would be a good example?

See attached ... and spot the trolley wire.

Mal Rowe in a city that does not usually offer trams as burnt offerings

[Bob Pearce]

Sometimes I think of all the do-gooders and so on who complain that nothing
should be attached to their glorious heritage buildings, including rosettes or
the like, from which to hang the overhead.

Sydney's George St (I think it is) with its 'tween rail power pickups should
have had overhead by using the buildings as was done in days of yore, instead
of the generally baseless complaints of ugly overhead supported by uglier
poles and so on.

Err, btw, it didn't take long to spot the overhead.

Bob in Perth

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[TP]

The reason stanchions are favoured rather than building attachments for modern installations is that, nowadays, there is a very strenuous legal process for each and every attachment to a building, requiring an easement on the property and all the other paperwork, not to mention surveys of the structural integrity of the building. The modern attachments are much more damaging to a building (especially an old building) than the old attachments were. In Europe, the walls of their old buildings are massively thick. In Australia they're often just two layers of bricks and require large spreader plates on the inside walls which, you can imagine, are an exquisite object of beauty for the building inhabitants to live with and watch the wall cracks emerging from behind. Just another thing that makes the whole process harder.

In the case of Sydney's new wireless sections of lines, there are still stanchions anyway - for street lighting, flags and other visual clutter that entirely negates the arguments for not having OHW. Might as well just attach wires to those, it won't make one bit of visual difference. That will happen one day when they finally tire of maintaining chronically faulty wireless technology.

Tony P 

[TP]

Talking of OHW, I was just watching a video yesterday of Prague's expanding trolley bus system that is replacing their diesel buses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnqMN5Qy-rg

With a modern difference - they're in-motion charging battery buses and there is enough OHW just for charging purposes, notably on hills (to relieve draw on batteries when climbing and regeneration when descending). This means that much less batteries are required, which means lower cost, less weight and thus greater passenger capacity. Off-wire, trolley poles are lowered on the move and there are  "hats" on the wires for raising the poles - all done remotely from the driver's seat. There are some examples of this in the video, as well as crossing with tram OHW. The IMC system dispenses with the old need for wiring crossings and junctions, thus less visual clutter.

The reason for posting this is to note that, even there, they are now using stanchions rather than anchoring to buildings nowadays, presumably for the same reasons, but the stanchions are also used for street lighting.

Tony P

[Richard Youl]

While I agree that APS is a technological and maintenance disaster, those George St poles are incapable of holding up overhead. If you look through those short transparent sections, you can see the pole inside is of much smaller diameter. The ugliest overhead supports are the centre poles while overhead is much less noticeable on Anzac Pde south of Moore Park where footpath poles are used in places. 

Richard

On 1 Jul 2026, at 11:26 am, 'TP' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Geoff Olsen]

I am told by an informed source that if one removes the cover from said “Smart poles” on a windy day they distort sufficiently so as to prevent the refitting of the cover until the wind drops. So strong enough to hold up a streetlight and a few “Artworks” and not much else.

 

Geoff O.

[TP]

I was thinking of poles like the ones in Prague, that are much more aesthetic than the RSJ beams that they like to use in Sydney. Also, often, as can be seen in the video, the stanchions are only on one side of the road, with the cross-arm supporting wires in both directions.

Tony P

[Andrew Highriser]

The superfluous 30 on the road dominates in my eyes, and is totally unnecessary for the short stretch of the road where there isn't parking and cars can only enter by a left turn and must exit by a left turn at where the distant pedestrian is crossing. 

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