TAN Have Paris Metro trains ever been hauled along mainline tracks?

[Geoffrey Hansen]

I know this is off topic but this group can be a very good source of information. 

I was just wondering if Paris Metro trains have ever been hauled along mainline railway tracks in France? If so did any problems occur? And do any photos exist of it happening? 

I am aware of London Underground trains being hauled along mainline railways but I was just curious if anything similar has ever occurred with Paris Metro trains. 

Regards 

Geoffrey 

[TP]

Very likely the rubber-tyred ones haven't!

Tony P

[Matthew Geier]

They have standard railwheels at standard railway measurements inboard the rubber tyres. The points on the Paris 'pneumatic' lines are all standard railway points the track for the tyres drops away to put full weight on the steel rail wheels for negotiating any 'special' work. On normal 'straight' track just enough weight is kept on the steel wheels to keep them and the rails clean.

So, in theory, they could be towed over normal rail lines, however, the tyres would almost certainly foul the structure gauge and would have to be removed for transit.

I rode Paris M4 last week. Rubber-tyred line. Full GoA4 automation (upgraded from human-driven relatively recently). Unlike 'Sydney Metro' the trains were driven very slowly and approached stations gingerly - despite full platform door coverage. There was also an issue with some trains where the brakes shuddered as the train came to a stand. The violent shaking on the bogie will eventually break something.

Sydney Metro's performance figures are because it's new and nothing has worn out (too much) yet, not because 'metro style is better'. Get on a 100+-year-old Metro (London and Paris I've recently experienced) and they make Sydney Trains look mid-tier average. When a system is old and regularly gets starved of funding for maintenance and repairs, things go wrong regularly.

And if the MTR Sydney ever gets into a EBA dispute with its control room operators, it too will be subject to strike action. Or do you think the safety regulator will let them sack the strikers and put new people in with almost no procedural training to replace them at a moment's notice?

Sydney M1 has come to a complete halt on more than one occasion due to fire alarms causing an evacuation of the control room. If anything it's going to be even more failure-prone than the old network once the kit in that room gets to a 'certain age'.

Unless of course, they spend the money to regularly update the systems - but who believes that is going to happen? (Updating rail safety critical systems is difficult due to the certification required - thus time-consuming and expensive). The concession operator will 'sweat' the asset and when it all falls apart, walk away from the concession or cunningly time their contract to have it finish just before the projected 'end of life' for key systems.

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[TP]

I well remember the smell of burning rubber in the underground stations in Paris.

Tony P

[Greg Sutherland]

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/system/files/media/documents/2024/241011%20Future%20trackwork%20.pdf

Saturday 23 and Sunday 24 November (weekend)
M1 Metro North West & Bankstown Line
Metro will not run between Chatswood and Sydenham. Use train services between Chatswood, the City and
Sydenham

It seems that this is for "trackwork"!

Greg

[TP]

According to the Minister, the shutdown is related to the Bankstown extension. I would say on previous experience it's due to systems integration and testing and we can expect more of it before the extension opens. Part and parcel of extending an automated line. They're getting heavily stuck into work on the Bankstown line already.

Tony P

[Matthew Geier]

This will simply be a safety thing - at the southern end of Sydenham station the metro's track and overhead are 'air gaped' from the rest of the network. They will be bridging that gap and removing the connecting tracks between the Bankstown line and the rest of the network. That will require a possession of the Sydenham platform and will cut off access to the storage yard. They could probably run to Bangaroo and use the crossovers there, but that was probably deemed too confusing for users.

I assume there will be a shutdown on the Illawarra line at the same time so the power can be isolated for the whole of Sydenham Junction while they remove the connecting points and associated infrastructure.

They are no where near systems integration and testing.

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[TP]

These are the Minister's words, from her social media.

"Has to happen so we can extend it to Bankstown unfortunately – just like we shut the North West line for 73 days over 12 months to extend the line through the CBD to Sydenham.

Painful, but incredibly necessary."

Tony P

[Stuart Keenan]

“Incredibly necessary” for whoever is bankrolling the whole deal and wanting the profits to flow.

“Painful” for the rest of Sydney 😔

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[TP]

Incredibly necessary to provide the extra capacity that the suburban system is no longer able to provide. We want to provide for future population growth and not to find ourselves in the situation Melbourne is in - the government in huge debt, unable to afford to grow public transport capacity and everybody still forced to drive everywhere.

Tony P

[Stuart Keenan]

Also incredibly necessary to question the mantra that states the suburban rail system is suddenly and magically incapable of doing the job and not meekly accept the glib pitches of the metro salesmen.

Speaking of which, how do I catch a metro train this weekend??? (Yeah yeah 'integration testing' and all that very very important crap they go on about)

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[TP]

The suburban system is not capable of doing the job of providing additional capacity for population growth, nor quicker journey times across Sydney's vast expanse, while at the same time serving all stations. The absolute maximum capacity of the suburban system, with all technology improvements, is somewhere around 24,000 people per hour per direction. The metro has a design capacity to expand to moving over 45,000 people per hour per direction as population grows further. It's future-proofed.

As a railway person, you should know that when an existing line is being extended, there are going to be works that affect the existing line. The thing is that, because the suburban line no longer has the capacity for further growth, there are now two parallel rail lines between Chatswood and Sydenham, so if one goes out of service or is disrupted (which the suburban line is far more frequently), the other line is there as an alternative - bustitution not needed. So it's not exactly the crisis that some are making it out to be.

Tony P

[Geoffrey Hansen]

I recall the RM Transit YouTube channel referring to the Metro as being Sydney Trains 2.0 as it could be how the government would like Sydney Trains to be. 

Also I sometimes that if the Western Metro was extended to Blacktown it could be a good trackwork alternative to buses. 

Regards 

Geoffrey 

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