The facts are coming out

[TP]

From the NSW Transport Minister today:

[quote]

Our light rails coast wire-free through the city because off underground power source that sits in the middle of the tracks.

It’s beautiful and clutter-free, but there’ve been a few instances lately where it’s stopped working for hours at a time.

Cables that have aged quickly in the elements are to blame, so this weekend we’re taking them out and swapping them over while essential track work happens on the L2 + L3 light rail lines.

Trackwork is always inconvenient, fortunately there’s plenty of tram-replacement-trains and tram-replacement metros to keep you travelling through the CBD this weekend, and regular buses to Randwick.

It’s a big job, but these new cables should mean we have a more reliable light rail for years to come – so it’s worth the time and investment.

[unquote]

Dunno about clutter-free. George Street and Circular Quay look like a pole forest. There are so many they might as well hang wires off them.

Tony P

[Matthew Geier]

And I've heard stories that some of the faults have taken ages to locate as Acconia didn't install it as per the drawings making fault finding somewhat difficult.

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[espee8800]

In Sydney recently and we couldn't see the buildings for the poles. You have some really really dumb and stupid people in charge there.

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[TP]

The urbanistas in Sydney City Council.

I think the third rail of the APS adds its own ugliness too. Normally tram tracks are pretty unobtrusive in a road surface.

https://www.gpsmycity.com/img/gd_sight/58045.jpg

Tony P

[Tony Galloway]

The real blame for the APS should be put on the “urban visionary” Peter Newman, who relentlessly spruiked “wireless trams” to all and anyone who would listen, whether battery or otherwise, and the city council picked it up because this individual presented himself as an “expert”. They saw it as a way of avoiding the usual claque of whiners who bitched about “ugly” overhead wires any time trams or LR were proposed. This was before the choice between CAF battery/supercapacitor or Alstom APS power was decided, and Alstom won for APS by emphasising range anxieties about battery power. No-one thought to consult the early adopters of these systems like Zaragoza or Bordeaux to see how it was working for them before buying APS for George street or the CAF storage supply for Newcastle and Parramatta.

When it comes to technology and energy efficiency Newman is clueless, as revealed by his present embrace of the oxymoron, “trackless trams”.

BTW, if anyone has ever wondered why catenary on the L1 is only between Haymarket and Wentworth Park, it’s because the anti-OHW cult made a lot of noise about how it would “spoil the appearance” of the Wentworth Park and Jubilee park viaducts, so instead direct suspended overhead was used for the rest of the line, resulting in about twice the number of poles needed to hold it up.

And yeah, the APS track on George St looks like it belongs on Gomez Addams’ Lionel train set.

Tony

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[TP]

As evidenced in City of Sydney, apparently poles are considered invisible.

Marklin also used a third rail. Generally avoided because it didn't look genuine.

Tony P

[Greg Sutherland]

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[espee8800]

It's impossible to read without wearing out my scrolling sideways and up n down finger.

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--

cheers and best wishes,
David in Avenel.au,    
[Before you change anything, learn why it is the way it is.]

[Matthew Geier]

On 11/11/24 14:56, espee8800 wrote:

It's impossible to read without wearing out my scrolling sideways and up n down finger.

It's also a letter Greg got published 8 years ago!

I did a Circular Quay run at lunch time. The trams are free today (Although for many users who have to come in from else where, it isn't much of a saving and may make no difference to their weekly PT bill at all if they regularly hit the $50 cap). There are still many APS dead spots (despite a weekend close-down for 'trackwork'), but looking at the condition of the APS rail and the insulated sections, there is a considerable amount of soot on them - that has to come from some where. I wonder how fast the APS shoes wear?

The Wynyard emergency crossover looks nearly bad enough to actually tear shoes off. It does have a 10km 'TSR'.

The traction batteries on the Sydney 305s are saving APS by hiding the faults and allowing operation over faulty segments. (The battery is actually referred to as the APS battery, not a traction supply battery)

The white plastic light bars on the front are starting to look a bit sad - they definitely didn't choose an Australian Sun rated plastic to make that part.

[Geoff Olsen]

“There’ve been a few instances lately where it’s stopped working for hours at a time.” A few! Depends on your definition of “A few” I suppose.

“Cables that have aged quickly in the elements are to blame.” So we didn’t design the system to work in the real world eh?

Back in the day when I used to do Capex’s I was taught that 25 years was a reasonable life expectancy for an electrical job probably longer if you did the job correctly.

 

I guess that I just cannot see the big picture but we electrical dinosaurs tend to suffer from that affliction.

 

Rumour has it that whilst those poles look spectacular they would not be able to hold overhead up, no surprise really.

 

Geoff O.

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[TP]

These light poles don't look any thicker and they're supporting two lots of overhead.

Perhaps the Sydney poles are made of paper mache.

https://zdopravy.cz/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/03-Koleje-Strahov-1536x1020.jpg

Tony P

[Geoff Olsen]

Tony,

 

                I think that you will find that the Sydney ones are of very light construction.

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[Richard Youl]

They are skinny poles with a fat overcoat. See the plastic window !! They could carry almost nothing 6m above the ground.

Richard

On 13 Nov 2024, at 1:56 PM, 'Geoff Olsen' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Matthew Geier]

On 13/11/24 15:03, 'Richard Youl' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> They are skinny poles with a fat overcoat. See the plastic window !!
> They could carry almost nothing 6m above the ground.

I think the Sydney Consultants looked to France (French designed trams
and operating system) and got a French manual for LGV overhead and
thought the L in the title stood for 'light'.

A lot of the Sydney overhead looks like it could cope with 300Km/hr TGV
trains.

[Mal Rowe]

On 13/11/2024 14:56, 'Geoff Olsen' via TramsDownUnder wrote:

                I think that you will find that the Sydney ones are of very light construction.

 

Some of the poles in Sydney are fat and strong - but many are simple extruded sections with a decorative trim cover to make them look fat and strong.

I have attached a couple of pics of the latter showing the trim pulle up on one of the poles - I think in Devonshire St.

Mal Rowe - observer from the GTCOTS

[TP]

The Sydney poles are also a light colour, so they stand out against the background like the proverbial. In the example I posted above, the poles are a dark, recessive colour. That's a basic principle that any designer or engineer should know. I think some other Australian cities like Adelaide use dark poles.

Tony P

[Mick Duncan]

Gday  All

So did Hornby Dublo and Trix

Cheers,    Mick

[David Batho]

Yes, but they’re our ‘dumb and stupid’ people!

David