Sydney Tramway Museum - VTF 2025

[Matthew Geier]

I wonder how many other museums could field operable exhibits that differ in 101 years of age ?

2107 may not be 'available for traffic', it did move out for display under its own power.

C290 of 1896 and SLR2107 of 1997.

I have to thank a couple of 'young kids' (high schoolers) who put a large amount of time and effort into cleaning the interior of 2107. The tram is possibly now cleaner than any time since it left the factory in 1997.

[David Batho]

My brother and I had a very nice day there yesterday. I didn’t realise you could move 2107. I thought the pantograph and overhead didn’t get on?

David

On 24 Feb 2025, at 2:32 pm, 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I wonder how many other museums could field operable exhibits that differ in 101 years of age ?

2107 may not be 'available for traffic', it did move out for display under its own power.

C290 of 1896 and SLR2107 of 1997.

<101 years of tram - C290 + SLR2107.jpg>

I have to thank a couple of 'young kids' (high schoolers) who put a large amount of time and effort into cleaning the interior of 2107. The tram is possibly now cleaner than any time since it left the factory in 1997.

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[Matthew Geier]

On 24/2/25 16:47, 'David Batho' via TramsDownUnder wrote:

My brother and I had a very nice day there yesterday. I didn’t realise you could move 2107. I thought the pantograph and overhead didn’t get on?

The depot yard and depot main are fine - at low speed and the complicated overhead around the depot end of Cross Street was adjusted to make it pantograph friendly some time back.

The mainline down 'Tramway Ave' needs more work, except for the X crossing pan in the middle of the scissors crossover, the fittings are all 'dual mode', but they have not been adjusted yet.

The modified Milan Ventotto has a pantograph too - as putting a pole back on the car required extensive bridge work on the roof. The original structure that held the pole when built in 1928 is long missing. So 2107 is not the only pantograph car at Loftus. (And the 'K scrubber' has both, a pole AND a pantograph!)

David

On 24 Feb 2025, at 2:32 pm, 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I wonder how many other museums could field operable exhibits that differ in 101 years of age ?

2107 may not be 'available for traffic', it did move out for display under its own power.

C290 of 1896 and SLR2107 of 1997.

<101 years of tram - C290 + SLR2107.jpg>

I have to thank a couple of 'young kids' (high schoolers) who put a large amount of time and effort into cleaning the interior of 2107. The tram is possibly now cleaner than any time since it left the factory in 1997.

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[David Batho]

Okay. Cool. Telling the whole story (of power collection) is important. Any bow collector cars in the collection?

David

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[Matthew Geier]

On 24/2/25 17:00, 'David Batho' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> Okay. Cool. Telling the whole story (of power collection) is
> important. Any bow collector cars in the collection?

I'm not aware of any car in the SPER collection that should have a bow
collector. (I could be very wrong though!)

Hobart was the only city in Australia that went that path wasn't it?

[Mal Rowe]

On 24/02/2025 17:12, 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> I'm not aware of any car in the SPER collection that should have a bow
> collector. (I could be very wrong though!)
>

Closest to a bow collector is perhaps the panto on Berlin 3007.

Mal Rowe on the spot at the time

[David Batho]

They also trialled it in Melbourne (on the Point Ormond line?).

David

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[David Batho]

Nice.

David

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> <Berlin-3007_VictoriaPde_12June2004.jpg>

[Geoffrey Hansen]

There is also a steam tram in the display hall making an even bigger variation. Is it 107 years?

Regards Geoffrey

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[Tony Galloway]

Brisbane converted the overhead on one line to be bow collector compatible, the fittings remained until the line was closed.

This happened around 1930, but likely due to the Depression the actual test operation never happened.

Someone from Brisbane could remind me which line it was, my memory fails me on that at the moment.

Three of the four Brisbane trams at Loftus existed at that time, it’d be interesting to know what cars BCC contemplated fitting with a bow.

Tony

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[Peter Hyde]

Dreadnought No 129 was fitted with a Fischer Bow Collector in 1933 for use on the Rainworth line. The overhead was also altered in the inner city area where the Rainworth service terminated,  as well as to the Milton Workshops.

Peter Hyde

Sent from BlueMail

[Tony Galloway]

Thanks for reminding me it was the Rainworth line Peter.

I didn’t know a bow collector was actually fitted to a Brisbane car, good to get new information.

Tony

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[Mal Rowe]

Melbourne tried twice.

Once in 1924 with the Birneys on the Hawthorn to Bridge Rd shuttle and
later (in the 1930s) with a different design on one of the U class trams
on the Holden St / Brunswick Rd shuttle.

One of the problems was that they didn't stagger the trolley wire so
wear on the centre of the bow was excessive.

Mal Rowe - attaching a pic of a Birney with a bow.

[Andrew Highriser]

That's such a nice photo of an unusual to Australia, European tram.

Andrew. 

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[Robert Thomson]

In 1933-34 One Man Dreadnought No. 129 was equipped with a Fischer bow collector. The overhead between Paddington Depot, Rainworth terminus and Wharf Street City was altered to allow its use.

Sent from my iPhone

On 24 Feb 2025, at 7:12 pm, 'Tony Galloway' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Thanks for reminding me it was the Rainworth line Peter.

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[Tony Galloway]

Do you know how much trial running was done?

That it was a one man car used suggests that fitting the bow was a way of avoiding dewirements that the conductor would normally be there to deal with.

It’s noteworthy that around the same time Adelaide was trialling pantographs and a Fischer bow on the Glenelg line.

Tony

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[Radcliffe, John (Environment, Waite Campus)]

Further to Tony’s comment, A picture of H 377 being tested with a bow collector about 1936 on the Glenelg line is attached. It is understood it was only to be used in the reservation which at that stage had catenary overhead. Trolley poles were to be erected for the street running. Various pantographs were also tried on 378-380.

 

However, the late John Morphett (a grandson of Sir William Goodman), when researching MTT correspondence, found a letter dated 4 August 1925 recording that a bow collector was being tried on a B type “toastrack” car for use on the then on order four G type Birney cars. If this were conducted on the Port Adelaide system, it would have involved B type 40 which was the only one assigned to the Port system, primarily to accommodate the Tramways Band when it was being taken, while playing, to the MTT bandstand at Semaphore. (The band was disbanded in March 1925 when most music lovers for band concerts were found to be then travelling by car to attend, and even at Semaphore, they went by SAR train.)

 

The bow was designed to be mounted on a 10ft 6 inch roof. (The B type cars had a 10 ft 8 inch clerestory roof.)  In a second trial run, a tension of 7 lb was recorded as necessary to keep the bow on the wire. There would be a need to reinforce the roof cross members and an extra spring might be required.

 

A letter dated 1 October 1925 from Noyes Brothers claimed not to have been paid in full when this was supposed to be done on receipt of all components at the original price of £3270 per car, with four bows to follow. Subsequently on 7 October 1925, £200 was retained to cover parts damaged or not supplied.

 

A letter dated 26 February 1926 after the G type cars were in traffic, noted that the bow collector originally supplied had been modified and proved unsatisfactory and was returned, but four others were being made up but were not yet delivered. Meanwhile, a small tower (actually identical to those used on F type dropcentre cars) trolley bases and a single pole per car were fitted, the cost being offset against the cost of the bow collectors. Noyes Bros agreed to this. The Adelaide Birneys always ran with such an arrangement as in the attached picture, and it is unclear whether the four new bows were ever delivered. But if they were, and since the MTT had a well developed practice to “keep anything that might come in handy”, perhaps one of them finished up on H 377.

 

John Radcliffe

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[Steven Altham]

Wasn't a bow collecter tested on the BIRNEY tram on shuttle bridge road to power street shuttle????

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[Mal Rowe]

On 25/02/2025 18:13, Steven Altham wrote:
>
> Wasn't a bow collecter tested on the BIRNEY tram on shuttle bridge
> road to power street shuttle????
>
>

Yes - see:

https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/preview/7530572247887142706/319149190107254800

[David Batho]

Thanks for that, Mal. I think I’ve seen pictures of the U Class with bow collector posted on TDU also.

David

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> <218_BowCollector.jpg>