Celeste Aida

[Kenchan@WINDOWS10]

Good afternoon,

This might not be an adequate question for this mailing list, but since I don’t have any other resort, please forgive me.

The famous aria Celeste Aida in Aida finishes with a phrase “un regal serto sul crin posarti, ergerti un trono vicino al sol”.

In this phrase, I cannot interpret or understand the words “crin posarti” (set on your horsehair?), “serto” (I think it’s an adjective derived from past participle of a verb ” , and “ergerti”.

 

I would appreciate very much in advance if friends from Italy clarify.

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

 

 

[don1rice]

The libretto with the Toscanini cd set reads as follows:

I would return your bright skies

The gentle breezes of your native land,

Place on your fair brow, a diadem,

Build you a throne in sunshine

Another translation:

I want to give you back your beautiful sky,
The sweet breezes of your native land,
To place a royal crown on your (brow) hair,
To raise you a throne next to the sun.

and yet one more:

I would return to you your lovely sky,
the gentle breezes of your native land;
a royal crown on your brow I would set,
build you a throne next to the sun.

Maybe a native Italian can be more precise. (-:

DonR

[Kenchan@WINDOWS10]

Don,

 

Thank you very much for your kind reply.

 

Luciano and Ezio had already given me replies.

 

Ezio, who I met in Firenze in 2015 knows I speak and write Italian.

 

The problem was to understand the words,  since these words were not on my Italian-English dictionary.

 

I raised an issue on my blog (in Japanese) how Verdi was sensitive about the use of p(iano) in his operas.

 

Verdi set parlante ppp  when the aria begins “Il tuo bel cielo”, then ancora p, animando, crescendo, f(orte), decrescendo, pppp, ppp, dim(inuendo), and finishes the area in pp, morendo.

 

And Toscanini made the well-known modification, where he let Tucker finish with ff and added “vicino al sol” in pp.

 

Understanding the Italian word by word, an anonymous person commented that Radames was thinking “usurapation of throne” and his intention should not be heard by anyone. That’s why this part had to be sung in pp.

 

This was very convincing and made me to think that Radames was thinking to escape to Ethiopia with Aida where he would become husband of the queen.

 

In 2019, I attended full 8 days  “Italian Opera Academy” in Tokyo where Maestro Muti trained young conductors and singers.

 

This academy was very exciting and every day I made a report on my blog, but unfortunately it’s in Japanese as I have full orchestra score (Ricordi Version).

 

The academy used many parts of Rigoletto. He made many allusions to Toscanini and Verdi.

 

One of the allusions referred to this part of Celeste Aida, which is a good example of how Verdi did not want to let tenor singers to use ff or fff where he intended to use pp or ppp and he said Verdi sometimes used 6 p’s to stress his intention.

 

However, returning to the issue of Toscanini’s modification, I think Toscanini thought a crescendo in the direction of pppp, ppp and to pp was difficult for the tenor and risks unheard by audience.

 

That’s the question I made to this mailing list.

 

Any comment is welcome.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

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[Brian B]

Interesting about Radame's intentions.

Of course, the modification at the end of the aria was not Toscanini's change but Verdi's suggested alternative. Tucker was so concerned he'd be lambasted that Toscanini released the Verdi letter in which the composer wrote that alternative. 

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From: toscanin...@googlegroups.com <toscanin...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Kenchan@WINDOWS10 <epea_pt...@ybb.ne.jp>
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2023 4:28:58 PM
To: 'don1rice' <donri...@gmail.com>; 'Toscaninifriends' <toscanin...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Celeste Aida

 

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[Kenchan@WINDOWS10]

Brian,

 

Thank you for the information.

 

I was not aware of Verdi’s suggestion of alternative.

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[Ezio Maria Ferdeghini]

The aria is a sort of intimate thinking, just a dream of Radames. The end in ppppppp should represent the dissolution of the dream. Many tenors find difficult to reduce the volume of their voice, and in many cases we find tenors who end in f, instead, to give the idea of and heroic will to win and to devote their exploit ti Aida. But Verdi wished to underline that the desire of victorious head of soldiers, declared just before the aria, in f with the trumpet calls, evolves to the desire to realize a life with his beloved Aida, with a very different feeling. The dream ends with the arrival of Amneris, who, in real life, aims to marry Radames.

Toscanini wanted to respect Verdi's intention, but Tucker had some difficulty to perform a correct diminuendo (maybe a Miguel Fleta could do such diminuendo). Therefore Toscanini adopted the solution we all know.

Ezio

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[Kenchan@WINDOWS10]

Ezio,

 

Thanks for your comment.

 

I am now leaving home to Tokyo where I have an old house.

 

Will get back to you in 3 or 4 days.

 

Ciao!

 

Ken

[chez_toscanini]

Me too, I was not aware of Verdi's letter.

[Brian B]

It is discussed on page 193, Volume 3,  of Julian Budden's Verdi operas book.

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Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2023 9:06 AM

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[chez_toscanini]

Thank you, also for the reference!

Ezio

[Kenchan@WINDOWS10]

Brian,

 

Thank you again for the further information.

 

Unfortunately, I do not possess the book.

 

Best regards,

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[Kenchan@WINDOWS10]

Ezio,

 

Here, pppppp was not used. Instead the last bars are in the direction of “crescendo”, as pp should be “piu’ forte” than pppp.

 

Cheers,

 

Ken

 

 

From: Kenchan@WINDOWS10 <epea_pt...@ybb.ne.jp>
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2023 2:14 PM
To: 'Ezio Maria Ferdeghini' <ferd...@gmail.com>
Cc: 'Toscaninifriends' <toscanin...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Celeste Aida

 

Ezio,

 

Thanks for your comment.

 

I am now leaving home to Tokyo where I have an old house.

 

Will get back to you in 3 or 4 days.

 

Ciao!

 

Ken

 

 

From: Ezio Maria Ferdeghini <ferd...@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2023 1:56 PM
To: Kenchan@WINDOWS10 <epea_pt...@ybb.ne.jp>

[Ezio Maria Ferdeghini]

Ken, please note the word “morendo”. in the edition of 1913 by Ricordi, we have slight variations of intensity on the words “un trono vicino al sol". pppp after a diminuendo, the first repeat starting with ppp and again diminuendo, last repeat pp-morendo. We have very low levels of intensity, always, though slightly increasing changes should express a sort of desire in front of a vanishing mental image. Let us consider that the scene is filled by Radames alone, who on one side, and in first instance, aims to be the leader of the Egyptian army, underlined by the heroic calls of the trumpets which prelude to the important announcement, and then he meditates on his love for Aida. Verdi carefully follows Radames’ feelings, using all the dynamics, and modulating the intensity of the voice to render those feelings.

Ezio

[Kenchan@WINDOWS10]

Ezio,

 

Understood. My concern is the difficulty of tenor to sing as Verdi marked.

 

Brian’s explanation resolved very clearly.

 

Cheers,