growing a garden in soil with juglone from black walnuts

[kristine kjeldsen]

Hello all,

I am seeking some help to deal with my problem of growing vegetables in my back yard, with a looming black walnut tree ten feet away. I tried growing vegetables for the first time last year, and any produce just turned out small, or did not produce a lot of harvest. Carrots did not grow, beets did not grow, there were some full sized beans but not a lot. 

I need to send off some soil to get tested still.

I looked at some websites for things to grow that are juglone tolerant - squash, swiss chard, beans, carrots, beets, but these all produced very small vegetables.

Looking for some advice for someone who has experienced growing in this type of soil. Should I just get a truck load of new soil, and grow in that? 

Thank you

Kristine (growing for myself, in a backyard in north york)

[J. Kim]

hi Kristine,

i have no experience of this, but re your idea of replacing the soil in your backyard, i suggest considering raised bed boxes. The black walnut tree being so close, the problem with the juglone would recur, so the cost of replacing your soil may very well be greater than building beds, which could also reduce the amount of soil you need.

janet
When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, "Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping."

Fred "Mr." Rogers 

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[Marc Green]

A truck load of fresh soil would work if you leave it in the truck!

That’s a joking way of saying you will be best served by growing in containers - something with a base that keeps the veggie growing soil from mixing with the native soil in which the Black Walnut is growing. Just bringing in tons of fresh soil to place on the existing soil is only going to prove to be an expensive way to see how a black walnut thrives when given fresh, nutrient rich soil. 

The good news is that a container can be pretty much any size, from a tiny little pot to a 4’ x 8’ or larger raised garden bed so long as there is a base on it (with drainage holes). You’ll likely want a somewhat taller/deeper bed so you have more good quality soil, leading to more water and nutrient retention, and allowing for deeper root systems. The bed base will prevent the tree roots from growing into the raised bed. Keep a watch out for stray walnuts that fall from the tree into the bed, or is carried by a squirrel and dropped into the bed. One walnut is enough to significantly hinder the success of a decent sized patch of garden.

Marc Green
The Backyard Urban Farm Company
(416) 450-3899 (cell)

[Kate H]

Chiming in with BUFCO -- raised beds with a liner - first-try setup is easy to construct, just bang some boards together & add corner brackets; refine next year.

Or, containers can grow more than expected, e.g. a 5-gal bucket (drill drainage holes; paint as desired) can grow potatoes or tomatoes or pole beans.

Another limiting factor might be sun/shade - walnuts create a dense shade, most veg require min 6h good sun; if shade is a problem, containers are great -- can move them to sunnier spots as the season advances.

Another benefit of containers: if have a sunny south window, can bring indoors in winter = can grow things that won't survive outdoors. (Overwinter tomatoes, jump-start next spring! or grow jasmine!) For containers, can add something light to the soil mix, e.g., perlite, vermiculite, to help drainage.

[Maria Nunes]

And I'll add my 5 cents (since there are no more pennies) to this thread.

I stopped trying to grow tomatoes in my backyard about 10 years ago, 15 years into gardening about 50 feet from a beautiful black walnut. It took me that long to figure out why it was getting harder and harder to grow them. I was lucky enough to snag an allotment in High Park about 7 years ago.

The other three replies pretty much cover everything. My neighbour who is even farther away from the tree has been growing most of his vegetables in containers (pails) for about a decade, so the juglone travels far into the soil, well beyond the drip line. See the appended e-mail from Dorothy Dobbie's "10 Neat Things" issue on black and white walnuts from 2013. I found it when searching on "juglone" to find this thread. Didn't even know I had it!

So... as has already been said, adding soil on top will just be a waste of money, not only because the juglone will travel up into the new stuff but because any walnuts AND leaves which fall on it will also rain juglone down on it. That's why Marc's suggestion to remove fallen fruit is very important; but it's the same with the leaves, though I'm sure they're not as potent. I've given up because I don't rake: whatever falls from the sky stays in the yard. And if they're black walnuts, I keep them!

A few years ago there was a larger than I'd ever seen load of fruit produced. The back yard of my neighbours right next to the yard with the tree was literally carpeted with black walnuts. I gathered one blue box full. I still have some because I didn't realize I should have worn gloves when I started to shell them. See photo. It took 2 weeks for the stain to wear off completely. But they are tasty, though incredibly hard to crack open. You need a hammer.

Good luck, but if you can't beat'em, eat'em!

And don't stash the nuts anywhere that squirrels can get at. I found out they were coming into my pantry (no screen door, just one of those magnetized screen closures) and stealing them! And when they chew off the husk, it stains any decking that catches the bits or lets the juglone infiltrate the soil they fall on.

.../Maria

From: ONTARIO Home & Gardener Living - Dorothy Dobbie <postm...@localgardener.net>
Date: 4 January 2013 18:46
Subject: 10 Neat Things about Black & White Walnut (ON)
To: Maria Nunes <maria...@alumni.utoronto.ca>

Click  here if you can't view this message | Send to a colleague   Go to ONTARIOGARDENER.NET View a digital issue of Ontario Gardener Watch a virtual garden tour       Draw date: January 15, 2013   January 4, 2013           Do you have a 10 Neat Thing topic you'd like to know about? Email us at subs...@localgardener.net   Black walnut tree   White walnut (butternut) tree   Black walnut fruit   Whtie walnut fruit   Black walnut vs white walnut nut   Black walnut vs white walnut wood   1. Breath thief. Walnut trees, by which term I include both black walnuts (Juglans nigra) and white walnuts (Juglans cinera), better known in some circles as butternut trees, are members of the Juglandacea family, which has a peculiar defence mechanism. They (and some of their relatives) produce a chemical called juglone, which interferes with the respiratory system of some plants. While most of this toxic material is contained in the tree's roots, it can also be found in leaves and twigs. The noxious substance extends 50 to 80 feet beyond the drip line of the tree and stays in the earth for some time even after the offending tree has been removed.   2. A home and native tree. Both black and white walnuts are native to North America, occurring naturally in Eastern Canada; they are hardy to zone 3a. Walnuts of both types are highly prized in more western parts of the country. They have been trialed in Alberta with success although they may not get quite as large there. There is a strain of Black walnut that thrives in Manitoba, especially in the Morden area.  In Winnipeg's suburb of St. James, there is a White walnut (butternut) in a front yard that is reported to be over 50 years old. The oldest know walnut is 300 years old in Sered, Slovakia at Castle Park.   3. It's called alleopathy, my dear.  The horrific habit of these trees is well-known. Alleopathy is the ability of a plant to produce bio chemicals that have an impact on the survival of other plants or organisms. The chemicals thus produced are known as allelochemicals. In the case of our walnut friends, the chemicals suppress certain other plants by cutting off their ability to exchange carbon dioxide for oxygen.   4. So why plant walnuts? If you garden on a small city lot, then walnuts are the last plant I would recommend. Black walnuts grow to massive widths, easily spreading their low, 10-foot-off-the-ground branches 60 to 70 feet and, in most places, grow just as tall. You need a park or an estate for that kind of mass. Having said that, they are pretty with their bright, almost lime-green, feathery pinnate leaves, and they make wonderful shade trees. Their fruits look a little like suspended tennis balls. The trees don't start producing nuts until about 10 years old and don't really produce heavily until they reach 30.   5. Black walnuts are, well, the blackest.  Black walnuts are "blacker", as in more dangerous, in the amount of juglone they produce. The tree also has black, furrowed and ridged bark and 12 to 24 feathery pinnate leaves. The tannins in the husks protecting the nuts make a black mess, staining everything they touch a rich dark brown-black when they are opened up. The tannins were used to dye hair as well as stain wood back in the good old days.   6. I like your nuts. Also called butternut trees, white walnuts have light gray bark with 11 to 18 downy leaves and lemon-shaped fruits that have a slightly milder taste than their black cousins. White walnuts are grown mostly for their harvest. They are becoming an endangered species in southern Ontario thanks to a fungal disease called butternut canker.   7. Poached walnut. Black walnuts are highly prized for their wood, which is just a little less dense than that of oak. It is used for gun stocks, for paddles and for coffins. In 2004, DNA evidence was used to convict a walnut poacher who had stolen a tree worth about $2,500.   8. Where's the beef, er, walnut meat? You have to love walnuts to get at their nuggets of meat. Firstly, the nuggets are protected by a thick husk that should be removed when it is still green to ensure a tastier nut. It's also easier to remove the husk then. Even so, removing the husks is a messy and difficult task; be prepared to have everything you use stained. Next, the inner nuts need to be cured until their hard outer shell dries. Lastly, we all know how hard it is to shell a walnut to get at the two somewhat bitter nuggets inside.   9. Horses and dogs beware. Horses can get a condition called laminitis, an inflammation of the feet, if their bedding is made from walnut chips or sawdust. And walnuts are lethal to dogs. As for people, don't eat a walnut with a mouldy shell, because poisonous mycotoxins can leak into the meat.   10. What happened to my tomato? So back to the juglone effect; some plants are very susceptible to juglone and among these are the members of the nightshade or Solanacea family. Tomatoes, peppers, potatoes and eggplant are all part of this family. White birch, apples, and cotoneaster are also sensitive. Cabbages, chrysanthemums, and peonies may wither and die when exposed. Symptoms of exposure include stunted growth and wilting, but if the plants start wilting, it's game over. The next inevitable step is death.         -Dorothy Dobbie Copyright©Pegasus Publications Inc

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[kristine kjeldsen]

Thank you all for your useful feedback. Had already been growing tomatoes in containers, but i guess i will proceed that way with other vegetables too.

The attachment is very informative, thanks!

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