Some questions about EDG Studio vs. TBC-ME

[Steve Ray]

Hi,

I'm gingerly testing out moving over to EDG Studio, and am having trouble recreating some of the things I used to do in TBC-ME. Are they possible in Studio, and if so, how?

1. Run the SHACL reasoner iteratively until no new triples are generated. (The only way I have found to do this is to repeatedly press the "Execute rules" button myself. Ouch)

2. Run the SHACL reasoner but not assert the results. I really liked the "purple display" of the inferred triples in TBC-ME, which made it simple for me to see what I had created vs. what was inferred. Is there some alternative way to distinguish the two in Studio?

3. Anything approximating the "Graph" view for instances.

Thanks!

Steve

[David Price]

Hi Steve,

On 29 Jun 2022, at 14:39, Steve Ray <st...@steveray.com> wrote:

Hi,

I'm gingerly testing out moving over to EDG Studio, and am having trouble recreating some of the things I used to do in TBC-ME. Are they possible in Studio, and if so, how?

1. Run the SHACL reasoner iteratively until no new triples are generated. (The only way I have found to do this is to repeatedly press the "Execute rules" button myself. Ouch)

Use gear drop-down in Inferences Panel. Same as TBC.,

2. Run the SHACL reasoner but not assert the results. I really liked the "purple display" of the inferred triples in TBC-ME, which made it simple for me to see what I had created vs. what was inferred. Is there some alternative way to distinguish the two in Studio?

This is how Inferences Panel works now. Then use ! to assert them. Transform can also run rules and auto-asserts but then lets you roll back.

3. Anything approximating the "Graph" view for instances.

Show EDG Diagram from Explore menu.

Cheers,

David

Thanks!

Steve

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[Steve Ray]

Thanks, David! Very helpful. 

The Inferences Panel really helps. Not quite as intuitive as the purple highlights in TBC-ME, but workable.

The only thing that isn't working now is within the EDG Diagram, when I am displaying an *instance*, to ask it to draw all the associated *instances*. The only way I can get close is by manually dragging each associated instance from the Form panel into the EDG Diagram. (Choosing "Include inherited properties" seems to affect the way classes are displayed, but not instances). Am I missing something?

Steve

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[David Price]

On 29 Jun 2022, at 15:51, Steve Ray <st...@steveray.com> wrote:

Thanks, David! Very helpful. 

The Inferences Panel really helps. Not quite as intuitive as the purple highlights in TBC-ME, but workable.

The only thing that isn't working now is within the EDG Diagram, when I am displaying an *instance*, to ask it to draw all the associated *instances*. The only way I can get close is by manually dragging each associated instance from the Form panel into the EDG Diagram. (Choosing "Include inherited properties" seems to affect the way classes are displayed, but not instances). Am I missing something?

I actually don’t use this much, so suggested looking at the user guide:

https://www.topquadrant.com/doc/7.3/user_guide/working_with_asset_collections/index.html#using-edg-diagrams

there is a Expand Node/Show Neighborhood which loads things the instance references though.

Cheers,

David

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[Holger Knublauch]

Out of interest, can some of your inferences be expressed using sh:values rules? In EDG (and Studio) those would be shown directly on forms and executed continuously (without being asserted). Note that if you want to express your rules in SPARQL you can also still do that in sh:values rules.

Holger

[Steve Ray]

All my rules are of the form:

sh:rule [

a sh:TripleRule ;

sh:object [ ...

sh:predicate ...

sh:subject ...

]

or

sh:rule [

a sh:SPARQLRule ;

sh:construct """...

]

I see how to replace the TripleRule syntax with

sh:property [

sh:path ...

sh:values [

for the SPARQL, what's the syntax? I didn't see an example in the spec.

Is it:

sh:property [

sh:path ...

sh:values [ sh:rule [ a sh:SPARQLRule ...

Regardless, the sh:rule use represents our one departure from the official SHACL spec. , so I need to be cognizant that some people are using pySHACL or other implementations).

Also, we often want to view the graph without any inference - representing a "compact" form for data exchange, to be expanded through inferencing at the receiving end.

Can the automatic inferencing be turned on or off in both TBC-ME and EDG?

P.S. Regarding my original questions, I still don't understand what controls the Expand Node/Show Neighborhood choice for instances. In my tests, some instance relations are showing up but most are not.

Steve

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[Holger Knublauch]

On 30 Jun 2022, at 10:40 am, Steve Ray <st...@steveray.com> wrote:

All my rules are of the form:

sh:rule [

a sh:TripleRule ;

sh:object [ ...

sh:predicate ...

sh:subject ...

]

If you have a fixed sh:predicate and sh:subject is sh:this and only sh:object is computed then the mapping to sh:values is straight-forward because those basically only consist of the sh:object part.

or

sh:rule [

a sh:SPARQLRule ;

sh:construct """...

]

I see how to replace the TripleRule syntax with

sh:property [

sh:path ...

sh:values [

for the SPARQL, what's the syntax? I didn't see an example in the spec.

Is it:

sh:property [

sh:path ...

sh:values [ sh:rule [ a sh:SPARQLRule ...

It’s basically a blank node with a sh:select, see https://w3c.github.io/shacl/shacl-af/#select

Regardless, the sh:rule use represents our one departure from the official SHACL spec. , so I need to be cognizant that some people are using pySHACL or other implementations).

Also, we often want to view the graph without any inference - representing a "compact" form for data exchange, to be expanded through inferencing at the receiving end.

If I understand you correctly then this is how TopBraid already works: sh:values are never asserted so when you save your files they will only contain the “compact” asserted triples.

Can the automatic inferencing be turned on or off in both TBC-ME and EDG?

TBC-ME doesn’t have the sh:values support as EDG has. In EDG you cannot switch sh:values off but for example the source code panel would only show the asserted triples.

P.S. Regarding my original questions, I still don't understand what controls the Expand Node/Show Neighborhood choice for instances. In my tests, some instance relations are showing up but most are not.

Someone else would need to respond to that.

Holger

Steve

On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 10:08 AM Holger Knublauch <hol...@topquadrant.com> wrote:

Out of interest, can some of your inferences be expressed using sh:values rules? In EDG (and Studio) those would be shown directly on forms and executed continuously (without being asserted). Note that if you want to express your rules in SPARQL you can also still do that in sh:values rules.

Holger

On 29 Jun 2022, at 9:39 am, Steve Ray <st...@steveray.com> wrote:

Hi,

I'm gingerly testing out moving over to EDG Studio, and am having trouble recreating some of the things I used to do in TBC-ME. Are they possible in Studio, and if so, how?

1. Run the SHACL reasoner iteratively until no new triples are generated. (The only way I have found to do this is to repeatedly press the "Execute rules" button myself. Ouch)

2. Run the SHACL reasoner but not assert the results. I really liked the "purple display" of the inferred triples in TBC-ME, which made it simple for me to see what I had created vs. what was inferred. Is there some alternative way to distinguish the two in Studio?

3. Anything approximating the "Graph" view for instances.

Thanks!

Steve

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