superclass online

[Bohms, H.M. (Michel)]

I have an ontology with a class “Gebouw” that is subclassof the nen2660:PhysicalObject class available online:

 

https://w3id.org/nen2660/def#PhysicalObject

 

(ie the latter is dereferenceable, or well … that is the intention).

 

In TBC however I do not see the superclass:

 

 

Is that expected behaviour (ie only superclass visible when explicitly imported)?

 

Or do I have to improve the dereferenceability somehow, ie wrt negotiation…?

 

Thx Michel

 

Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Bohms Scientist Specialist Structural Reliability T +31 (0)88 866 31 07 M +31 (0)63 038 12 20 E michel...@tno.nl Location   This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electronic transmission of messages.

 

[David Price]

You must owl:import ontologies (ie named graphs) in TBC.

The ontology may be dereferenced, but not individual classes.

Cheers,

David

On 23 Dec 2021, at 11:57, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users <topbrai...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Bohms, H.M. (Michel)]

Hi David

 

I now remember an earlier discussion on this wrt qudt.

In the end I also had to import qudt graphs despite them being made dereferenceable by Steve.

 

When you say: “The ontology may be dereferenced, but not individual classes.”

It feels like a publication issue…

 

But can we say that TBC needs the import to properly deal with the class-level?

 

Gr Michel

 

 

Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Bohms Scientist Specialist Structural Reliability T +31 (0)88 866 31 07 M +31 (0)63 038 12 20 E michel...@tno.nl Location   This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electronic transmission of messages.

 

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[Irene Polikoff]

Yes, it is expected. The data displayed is the data available to the tool.

What is available is {?r rdfs:subClassOf https://w3id.org/nen2660/def#PhysicalObject} statement and this is what the form in TBC displays.

The statement that {https://w3id.org/nen2660/def#PhysicalObject rdfs:label “Gebouw”} is not part of the data loaded into the tool. It is located somewhere else. If you want statements “from somewhere else” to be also loaded, you need to indicate this using owl:imports.

On Dec 23, 2021, at 4:57 PM, David Price <dpr...@topquadrant.com> wrote:

You must owl:import ontologies (ie named graphs) in TBC.

The ontology may be dereferenced, but not individual classes.

Cheers,

David

On 23 Dec 2021, at 11:57, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users <topbrai...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



I have an ontology with a class “Gebouw” that is subclassof the nen2660:PhysicalObject class available online:

 

https://w3id.org/nen2660/def#PhysicalObject

 

(ie the latter is dereferenceable, or well … that is the intention).

 

In TBC however I do not see the superclass:

<image004.png>

 

<image005.png>

 

Is that expected behaviour (ie only superclass visible when explicitly imported)?

 

Or do I have to improve the dereferenceability somehow, ie wrt negotiation…?

 

Thx Michel

 

Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Bohms Scientist Specialist Structural Reliability T +31 (0)88 866 31 07 M +31 (0)63 038 12 20 E michel...@tno.nl Location

<image006.gif>

This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electronic transmission of messages.

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[Jan Voskuil]

Hi Michel,

Dereferencing is not an alternative to owl:import. Graph inclusion is a precisely defined mechanism, derefencing is not. As Berners-Lee put it in his famous (but “imperfect”) Linked Data paper, returning “useful information” when a resource URI is used as a URL is an expectation of behaviour, not a rule. And what is “useful”? In practice, dereferenceable resource URIs are a (nice!) convenience for human users. I am not aware of any large scale implementations where machines make use of dereferenceability in this sense. Linked Data Platform is an attempt to formalize this into something actionable. As far as I know, LDP never became big, although lately it has been given an important role in the SOLID-movement. Today, GraphQL is still far more popular than LDP. Best regards, -j

https://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/LinkedData.html

Sent from my iPad

On 24 Dec 2021, at 11:29, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users <topbrai...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Hi David

 

I now remember an earlier discussion on this wrt qudt.

In the end I also had to import qudt graphs despite them being made dereferenceable by Steve.

 

When you say: “The ontology may be dereferenced, but not individual classes.”

It feels like a publication issue…

 

But can we say that TBC needs the import to properly deal with the class-level?

 

Gr Michel

 

 

Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Bohms Scientist Specialist Structural Reliability T +31 (0)88 866 31 07 M +31 (0)63 038 12 20 E michel...@tno.nl Location

<image001.gif>

This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electronic transmission of messages.

 

From: topbrai...@googlegroups.com <topbrai...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of David Price
Sent: Thursday 23 December 2021 10:57 PM
To: topbrai...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [topbraid-users] superclass online

 

You must owl:import ontologies (ie named graphs) in TBC.

 

The ontology may be dereferenced, but not individual classes.

 

Cheers,

David

On 23 Dec 2021, at 11:57, 'Bohms, H.M. (Michel)' via TopBraid Suite Users <topbrai...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



I have an ontology with a class “Gebouw” that is subclassof the nen2660:PhysicalObject class available online:

 

https://w3id.org/nen2660/def#PhysicalObject

 

(ie the latter is dereferenceable, or well … that is the intention).

 

In TBC however I do not see the superclass:

<image002.png>

 

<image003.png>

 

Is that expected behaviour (ie only superclass visible when explicitly imported)?

 

Or do I have to improve the dereferenceability somehow, ie wrt negotiation…?

 

Thx Michel

 

Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Bohms Scientist Specialist Structural Reliability T +31 (0)88 866 31 07 M +31 (0)63 038 12 20 E michel...@tno.nl Location

<image001.gif>

This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. TNO accepts no liability for the content of this e-mail, for the manner in which you use it and for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent to the electronic transmission of messages.

 

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[Bohms, H.M. (Michel)]

Hi Jan

 

I see all you points. Agree that it is not easy and that many are not using it…but…..

 

I still think it was the whole idea of the semantic web: to make resources dereferenceable for computers (not just convenience for users).

 

This deref. can come in 2 ways:

1. Derefer. The whole graph (and then say import it/make it part of some local work space etc.), or
2. Deref. All elements in the graph (would be my pref.)

 

Tim BL is not fully clear on this I think in the ref. you give:

“Access the document to obtain information about #carol”

I think 2. Was the idea by looking at SOLID indeed where solid is adding WRITE to the READ (needing better ways to do identification/authentication/autorisation involving better encryption etc.).

 

Also here the PODS are meant for keeping the data at its source and making them accessible over the Web.

Starting from here: I still think the SW is meant as a “read-on SOLID” where we have amap data sharing instead of data exchange.

 

At the same time I must admit that the only implementation I have seen recently from the W3C LBD community group (Ghent university), data is not accessed at the source but kept in sinc via sameAs links between proxy aliases.

(20211214_LBDserver_JeroenWerbrouck.pptx (live.com))

 

Again there might be all kind of practical issues but I think it would still be the dot on the horizon to store data only once and (re)use in multiple ways. Clearly under the hood there be all kind of caching mechanisms (think like onedrive etc.) to make sure data is stable/available etc.

 

Wrt graphql….all direct access mechanisms like sparql, graphql abstract from the serialization. That is true for local and global access so that issue is orthogonal I think. When all data is dereferenceable it can be accessed by global/federated queries (sparql or graphql).

 

I agree the TBL paper is “imperfect” but then because he’s unclear about the “person or machine” issue: he start with:

 

“The Semantic Web isn't just about putting data on the web. It is about making links, so that a person or machine can explore the web of data. “

 

But then:

 

“But for HTML or RDF, the same expectations apply to make the web grow:

1. Use URIs as names for things
2. Use HTTP URIs so that people can look up those names.
3. When someone looks up a URI, provide useful information, using the standards (RDF*, SPARQL)
4. Include links to other URIs. so that they can discover more things.”

 

In that sense the current W3C interpretation is much more clear I think:

 

“However, to make the Web of Data a reality, it is important to have the huge amount of data on the Web available in a standard format, reachable and manageable by Semantic Web tools. Furthermore, not only does the Semantic Web need access to data, but relationships among data should be made available, too, to create a Web of Data (as opposed to a sheer collection of datasets). This collection of interrelated datasets on the Web can also be referred to as Linked Data.

To achieve and create Linked Data, technologies should be available for a common format (RDF), to make either conversion or on-the-fly access to existing databases (relational, XML, HTML, etc). It is also important to be able to setup query endpoints to access that data more conveniently. W3C provides a palette of technologies (RDF, GRDDL, POWDER, RDFa, the upcoming R2RML, RIF, SPARQL) to get access to the data.”

 

All suggesting an interpretation where data is distributed, stored locally at source, connected via links and being globally accessible (via same format and/or query language direct access).

Greetings, Michel

 

 

Dr. ir. H.M. (Michel) Bohms Scientist Specialist Structural Reliability T +31 (0)88 866 31 07 M +31 (0)63 038 12 20 E michel...@tno.nl Location

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