Should TiddlyServer include TiddlyWiki and Node?

[Arlen Beiler]

I have a question for everyone. 

TiddlyServer is a rather simple static file server that also has the ability to run any data folders found as though they were running on the NodeJS edition server.

So my question is this. Should I remove the need for running npm install? All you would need to do then is install NodeJS or just copy the Node executable into the folder beside the server.js file. I would have instructions on exactly how to do that.

If some of you could find this useful then I will plan on it, so let me know.

Thanks,

-Arlen

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

Over here ... https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/4yyMPH-0hXg/eVuK5-I9AwAJ  ... you will find some discussion relevant to this question.

At the moment there are not that many people around in the GG--on holiday? So feedback may take a while.

I am in no way wanting as one person to push for the changes you propose. I am not sure how "typical" a user I am. BUT I can comment with a few points that are in the background of my experience ...

1 - its a PROBLEM that both Chrome & Firefox will end overwrite file-saving as we know it. We need new solutions. TiddlyServer is one of them.

2 - I'm really NOT interested, or capable, of using the whole swathe of stuff npm brings. I'm ONLY interested in being able to save TiddlyWiki's in a simple way.

3 - SO, for my needs, I'd prefer the Most Minimal Install needed to achieve (2).

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

Are you a man or a woman? :-)

I been meaning to ask for a long time. "Arlen" in English sounds like you could be either.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Lost Admin]

I am unlikely to ever actually use TiddlyServer, so I'm not the right person to ask, but here is my 2 cents anyway.

It should include everything and be bundled with an OS appropriate installer. Most non-technical users are going to be uncomfortable without the installer and totally put-off by the many steps needed to get TiddlyServer going in the first place.

[Arlen Beiler]

Yes, I am a man :) Usually the woman's name (to my knowledge) has an extra e at the end (i.e. Arlene).

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/db225a6f-f99a-489b-bd87-9978abc70d85%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Mat]

@Arlen,

The bar to use TW is pretty high. 

From what I understand, TiddlyServer solves some basic needs.

Therefore, the easier TiddlyServer would be to use the better, generally. The requirement to run npm is a turnoff, even for an experienced TW user (but not nodejs TW) like me.

<:-)

[Arlen Beiler]

Alright, I did it. Check it out if you are interested: https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer#bundled-version

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/8acdf5b8-8664-41ce-9bd1-36401289a07e%40googlegroups.com.

[Birthe C]

Hi Arlen,
I am running Linux Mint Mate 32 bit and trying to follow you explanation, I get an error, something about a symlink missing.


Birthe


On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 4:01:14 AM UTC+2, Arlen Beiler wrote:mAlright, I did it. Check it out if you are interested: https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer#bundled-version

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 7:37 PM, Mat <matia...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Arlen,

The bar to use TW is pretty high. 

From what I understand, TiddlyServer solves some basic needs.

Therefore, the easier TiddlyServer would be to use the better, generally. The requirement to run npm is a turnoff, even for an experienced TW user (but not nodejs TW) like me.

<:-)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.

[Arlen Beiler]

Does it work to do  ./node server ?

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/540499c2-584d-40ae-b064-24921b384fbe%40googlegroups.com.

[Arlen Beiler]

That last one was if you have the node binary in the same folder rather than installed on PATH (in windows terms).

Otherwise, copy the complete error output in here and I'll try to take a stab at it.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I just commented on Github about this .. To a user like me when I read ...

Download the latest release of TiddlyServer from https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases unzip the folder contained in the zip file to wherever you want it. Put the binary in this folder if you want it to be portable.

... I don't actually know what you mean :-). Which binary? What I do know is I'd like it, when setup, it to be a portable app.

I will happily help shape documentation if you want for idiots like me. First I have to actually get it working to know what it is :-).

Josiah

[Mark S.]

I was wondering about that too. I think he's referring to the node executable(s) from nodejs.org. If you have the node executable in the same directory as the rest of tiddly server, then you don't need to install nodejs separately or make a long path to the installed executable.

I wonder if it would be an intellectual property violation to make a complete bundle that already contained the node executable? Reduce the number of steps, which are still quite a few for newbies.

If the executable was there, then a next step (for windows users) would be to include a batch file or shortcut file to launch the server. That way the user wouldn't have to drop to a command shell. One less step. Probably shell scripts of some type would work for mac or linux users.

Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S. & Arlen

Mark S. wrote:

I was wondering about that too. I think he's referring to the node executable(s) from nodejs.org. If you have the node executable in the same directory as the rest of tiddly server, then you don't need to install nodejs separately or make a long path to the installed executable.

I'm wondering if it means to ALSO copy over all the rest of the node stuff there too? i.e. all of this? ...


Best wishes
Josiah

[Arlen Beiler]

Just node.exe is enough.

On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 2:35 PM, @TiddlyTweeter <tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

Ciao Mark S. & Arlen

Mark S. wrote:

I was wondering about that too. I think he's referring to the node executable(s) from nodejs.org. If you have the node executable in the same directory as the rest of tiddly server, then you don't need to install nodejs separately or make a long path to the installed executable.

I'm wondering if it it means to ALSO copy over all the rest of the node stuff there too? i.e. all of this? ...


Best wishes
Josiah

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/15510c5f-fe6e-4d7b-be29-f41ffbce5544%40googlegroups.com.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

I copied node.exe over. Can I safely now delete the "node-v6.11.0-win-x86" install?

Best wishes
Josiah

Arlen Beiler replied:

Just node.exe is enough.

[Arlen Beiler]

I copied node.exe over. Can I safely now delete the "node-v6.11.0-win-x86" install?

Yes, the rest is basically just NPM related stuff that you don't need. Everything is contained in the node executable.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/c3d2b9e1-07b4-4f1c-92c6-683ac48e64d6%40googlegroups.com.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

Just a small footnote before I delete the folder. Should I copy over the LICENSE file for node? Would it apply with the moved node.exe alone?

Josiah

I copied node.exe over. Can I safely now delete the "node-v6.11.0-win-x86" install?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

I'm on TiddlyServer 2.0.5. I need a bit of help configuring the settings.json.

My aim is for a Portable Version. I am on Windows 7.

The settings.json gives this for the core paths ...

    "tree": {
        "alias": "C:/my folder path",
        "alias2": {
            "alias2child": "relative folder path"
        }

What I want to do is this:

1 - RUN it from C:/bag/pages/tw/_bucket/tserver

2 - FOR TiddlyWikis found in sub dirs of C:/bag/pages/tw, such as 
"C:/bag/pages/tw/tw_crusoe/tw_crusoe.html" & 
"C:/bag/pages/tw/tw_tweeter/tiddlytweeter.html"

3 - I want ALL paths RELATIVE so I can copy the install over
 to a pen drive without any path issues (i.e. fully portable).

Can you help me get the settings.json correct for this? I fiddled about but 
its not working. Maybe I am doing relative paths wrong?

Best wishes
Josiah

[Arlen Beiler]

Well, that is only necessary if you are redistributing your copy to the public. In this case, you are the end user, so there is no need. Obviously if you give someone else your copy, you should let them know where they can find TiddlyServer and Node online, but that would probably be enough attribution for person to person sharing. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, and this should not be construed to be legal advice. But in the spirit of attribution, letting them know that the Node binary is freely available from NodeJS.org should be enough, in my opinion.

You can if you want, just make sure you rename it so as to not confuse it with the TiddlyServer license.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/fc45b1b0-f0aa-438f-b6a3-416c600f888a%40googlegroups.com.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

Your license is "LICENSE.md", right? Node's is just "LICENSE". So they can co-habit. The only reason I ask is because I am very aware that open source is badly exploited and I just like to pay a bit of attention to that, the work others have done deserves some credit, even if only for my own eyes. On your suggestion I will rename it.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Arlen Beiler]

You could do { "tree": { "tw": "../../../tw" } } and put that in _bucket/tserver (which would make it readable from the browser -- not recommended! Or you could do { "tree": { "crusoe_or_whatever": "../../tw_crusoe" } } and so on. 

Remember, all paths are relative to settings.json.

Sounds, good. Always good to get the word out :)

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/1a8154d2-b895-4513-a1f8-17af2a8cd31b%40googlegroups.com.

[Mark S.]

I would use the uninstall through the menu so everything gets cleaned up (including paths and registry settings)

Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Thanks Mark S. for that heads up.

I did not realise it was changing the registry. Perhaps not as I did the Zip route.

I'll check.

Josiah

[Mark S.]

You just unzipped? No install? Not sure how that works (how does Windows find node?) but if that's how you installed then it should be OK to just delete.

The regular install, according to some sources, changes the registry. And I'm pretty sure that it puts itself on the path (unless I did that and forgot <sigh>)

Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

Am i right in thinking that if you don't install the npm version you simply click on node.exe in the local directory of install and  then enter...

"server.js settings.json"

... to activate it?

If so its doing nothing for me :(. The return message is ...



 Yet the files exist ...



Maybe i misunderstood something?

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

TBH I don't want it needing a set path at all. I want it portable and contained. If its possible. I think it is. Buts its maybe why I'm having trouble getting it to run. At the explicit level it should run without relying on environment variables if all the running bits are together in one directory. But so far i not got is running. That is likely my idiocy over something simple?

[Mark S.]

After making your changes in settings.json, you just launch the server again (node server.js). The server.js script knows to check settings.json. If you want to do this in a single click you probably need a simple batch file (at least that's what I did).

Mark

launch.bat :

node server.js

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S. & Arlen

The problems I am having are around what we are talking about.

Opening a command prompt for node.exe (in the same directory as server.js & settings.json) and then entering "server.js" the return I get is ...



I'm obviously doing something basically wrong.

J.

[Mark S.]

you have to type

node server.js

Or make a batch file like I suggested.

HTH
Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

Its a step. Thankyou!

Before I was trying to execute through the Node command prompt not the O/S command prompt (no one told me otherwise, I really am "tell me what to do & I will do it" :-)

Using the O/S I began to get somewhere but hit other issues ... I need examine my JSON. A dopo (later).

Best wishes
Josiah

[Mark S.]

There might be a way to do it through the node.js command prompt, so it's not bad thinking.

It looks like you have a comma in a place it shouldn't be.

Good luck,
Mark

[Arlen Beiler]

If you paste it into a JSON validator online it should tell you what the trouble is. As you can see, it says unexpected token in JSON, which means, in this case, that the settings file is not formatted correctly (JSON is a little picky).

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/a5896cd8-229e-4f4c-8828-94bae0579269%40googlegroups.com.

[Arlen Beiler]

And the zip (binary) package will not change the registry. So you can just delete the files. The msi (installer) package may add something to the registry and does change PATH, unless you tell it not to. But Node does not use the registry for normal operation, that I know of. I could be wrong though.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

I have got TiddlyServer running (the minimal "portable" version).

1 - I have it active in my Portable Apps system. I confirm it IS fully portable. I did tests.

2 - It seems it can CO-EXIST in a browser running TiddlyFox. TW's accessed through the IP address (correctly) show no save options in TiddlyFox. I think that is a major plus worth noting. It allows for incremental experiencing, rather than radical shift.

3 - Its obviously a better solution than TiddlyDesktop, which, unfortunately, has problems rendering some pages nowadays. TiddlyServer interfaces with a normal browser so such issues do not arise.

4 - I found it COMPLICATED to get working. I'm wondering if, longer term, when its settled down a bit, if there could be a "packaged installer" for the whole thing, where a user simply chooses an install directory?

I'll keep on playing with it & report back.

Josiah

[Birthe C]

Hi Josiah,

Remember not everyone is using Windows.


Birthe

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Birthe

I aware of it. Though I don't know the operational differences so well. But I think the core of what I wrote still applies.

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

In a TW served by TiddlyServer how do I KNOW its saved?

When I click the bookmark Fix Put Saver the console shows this ...



That means "tw_arbeit_last.html" has been saved?

I'm a bit confused as it still shows this in the  TW ...



Josiah

[Mark S.]

On mine the save button greys out as expected. But I still have tiddlyfox installed. I'm wondering if that provides the feedback to tell TW to grey out the cat (all cats are grey when the monitor is off)   even when it (TF) isn't doing the actual saving.

Mark

[Arlen Beiler]

If the checkmark is red, it did not get saved. When you click the checkmark, it will use the first available saver. If the put saver is available, it will use it, if not it will skip to the next one. The TiddlyFox saver (up to TW5 v5.1.14 or so) and the TiddlyFox Firefox plugin (always did, always should) both check to make sure the file is served from a file: url. So it should not interfere. 

So click the checkmark if it is red and see what happens. A PUT request will show up in the log if it was successful. The bookmarklet is not needed in all cases, such as where there are no percent-encoded characters or spaces in the url.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/a786db39-12ff-4203-98e5-2d1f01568a23%40googlegroups.com.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. & Arlen ...

I probably done something seriously wrong :-)

I'm getting messages on ONE TiddlyWiki like this ...


 


Then a RSOD ...



Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

I have no idea what I am doing wrong :-(.

Josiah

Arlen Beiler wrote:

If the checkmark is red, it did not get saved.

So click the checkmark if it is red and see what happens. A PUT request will show up in the log if it was successful. The bookmarklet is not needed in all cases, such as where there are no percent-encoded characters or spaces in the url.

I get this message when clicking the red circle/tick in TW for one TW ...



BUT after after a while (like two minutes later) the console reports (without my intervention) ...



The button is STILL RED and does nothing visible when you click except, in the console, again, report,



Best wishes
Josiah

[Mark S.]

Hi Josiah,

I would verify that the original TW can still load in your browser without the RSOD.

Could we see your settings.json file?

It looks like it's having problems saving your back-up. Did you make a back-up directory (I believe you need to make the directory by hand).

Good luck,
Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

I did NOT make a backup directory. I don't need it. I already run redundant backup from an external program that detects changes every 10 minutes or so.

Could that be an issue? That I don't need back-up?

My json file is this ...

{
    "tree": {
        "crusoe": "../../tw_crusoe",
        "arbeit": "../../tw_arbeit"
    },
    "types":{
        "htmlfile": ["htm", "html"]
    },
    "username": "",
    "password": "",
    "host": "127.0.0.1",
    "port": 8080,
    "backupDirectory": "backup"
}

I'm going to remove "backupDirectory": "backup" and see if it helps.

Thanks
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen & Mark S.

Indeed, removing the line ...

"backupDirectory": "backup"


... seems to have solved the issue. (Fingers crossed)

It may be worth mentioning in the documentation that if you don't need backup you should remove the backup line?

Anyway, that seems like it was my issue.

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

Great! None of my addresses have spaces or encoding needed characters. I'm gonna delete the "bookmarklet".

Best wishes
Josiah

[Arlen Beiler]

I've pushed an update to master which will now fail quickly and log an error message if there is an error creating the backup. So it will be in the next release. Thank you for your feedback, it helps a lot.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/74a41424-301c-4bbc-9849-2f50fd146158%40googlegroups.com.