Concerns from a non-tech newbie
265 views
Skip to first unread message
IvanPsy
Oct 29, 2020, 2:14:11 PM10/29/20
to TiddlyWiki
Greetings,
I'm evaluating TiddlyWiki over other txt based solutions (such as Obsidian and similar), so I have some questions.
My apologies if they are non-realistic questions: I'm not a tech :-)
- How big can be a TiddlyWiki before slowing down or causing troubles when opening it?
I have some Gb on Apple Notes, since I store also images and long PDFs.
My fear is storing all my stuff on a single file may slow down or causing other troubles.
- TiddlyWiki runs on HTML and Java, is it?
What if the browsers discontinued them in the future, (as it happened to Flash)?
Is it a realistic scenario?
I'm always looking for an exit plan.
And: what if I wanted to export the tiddlers in different txt (or other formats) files?
- Can I have the same TiddlyWiki open on different windows at the same time without having the two versions conflict each other?
I'm used to work on many projects at the same time, so I usually have many windows of Apple Notes open at the same time.
How about TiddlyWiki?
Thank you!
PMario
Oct 29, 2020, 3:03:55 PM10/29/20
to TiddlyWiki
On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 7:14:11 PM UTC+1, IvanPsy wrote:
Greetings,
Hi Ivan,
I'm evaluating TiddlyWiki over other txt based solutions (such as Obsidian and similar), so I have some questions.My apologies if they are non-realistic questions: I'm not a tech :-)
Welcome!
- How big can be a TiddlyWiki before slowing down or causing troubles when opening it?I have some Gb on Apple Notes, since I store also images and long PDFs.My fear is storing all my stuff on a single file may slow down or causing other troubles.
You should definitely keep the PDFs and big images outside of the wiki. It's possible to "link" to external resources like PDFs. A tiddler has a field named: _cannonical_uri to store the resource URL.
- TiddlyWiki runs on HTML and Java, is it?
JavaScript is something completely different to Java.
What if the browsers discontinued them in the future, (as it happened to Flash)?
HTML is "basically" text. It's always possible to open the file in a normal text editor and extract the content. It will be much work, but it is possible.
Additionally TW has the possibility to export everything in different formats. One of them is CSV Comma-Separated-Values. Which can also be used to import stuff.
Is it a realistic scenario?
I think browsers will be more important in the future, than the other way around.
I'm always looking for an exit plan.
That's a good strategy!
And: what if I wanted to export the tiddlers in different txt (or other formats) files?
See above. We can export / import as CSV, JSON and text based
- Can I have the same TiddlyWiki open on different windows at the same time without having the two versions conflict each other?
If you use a "file-based" saver, they will conflict each other. If you use a "server-based" solution they will be synced. See: BOB-server It's available for several different OSes.
I'm used to work on many projects at the same time, so I usually have many windows of Apple Notes open at the same time.How about TiddlyWiki?
Hope that helps, to get an overview.
have fun!
mario
hazel morris
Oct 29, 2020, 3:07:05 PM10/29/20
to TiddlyWiki
I can answer some of these questions: html isnt going to go out of fashion soon, it is the code of every website no matter what browser runs it. I would say it is not a realistic scenario!
You can export tiddlers to txt, I am sure there is a plugin for this.
Yes you can have multiple tiddlywikis open at the same time.
Finally, I am not sure how much you can put into tiddlywiki before it slows down. individual tiddlers with only writing have a very small file size, but if you add images and pdfs the size will get much bigger very fast.
I am no expert myself, hopefully someone else can confirm.
You can export tiddlers to txt, I am sure there is a plugin for this.
Yes you can have multiple tiddlywikis open at the same time.
Finally, I am not sure how much you can put into tiddlywiki before it slows down. individual tiddlers with only writing have a very small file size, but if you add images and pdfs the size will get much bigger very fast.
I am no expert myself, hopefully someone else can confirm.
Have a nice day,
H
TW Tones
Oct 29, 2020, 6:23:33 PM10/29/20
to TiddlyWiki
Ivan,
Welcome to the infinite universe of TiddlyWiki.
I will just add to the above comments, that out of the box tiddlywiki single file is enough for most users however if you add a lot of imbedded files and media it all must load into memory.
If you have a lot to add and you know it will get big, use some of the recommended approaches, however it is easy to migrate your data to a new wiki later so I recommend just getting started and see if the other aspects meet with your needs (it should, as tiddlywiki is a platform and very flexible).
Please provide a link to obsidian or some features so we can respond.
For TiddlyWiki open on different windows at the same the best answer is Bob and Bobexe for your local computer or the Local Area Network with a team, make sure you configure backups.
It is wise to consider your exit strategy, in fact that was a key reason I moved to tiddlywiki, Tiddlywiki is based on technologies which are less likely to fade in time than most solutions, at one point we had issues with savers and people obtained a compatible older version of browsers as portable apps and they were fine for a few more years, some people were so happy with this strategic solution they did not realise we had moved on, I now use timimi a lot to open and save wikis from my files on my local computer. Another trick is to build your own links wiki which will always try and open the one wiki in a named tab eg (HTML link) target="wikiname" so you do not end up with multiple instances open.
I also find dividing content between for purpose wikis one way to avoid large wikis, there is plenty of interwiki tools even indexing and search solutions.
The key question you may answer is why text files? because there are a lot of different answers to that question. I use a lot of text but I am happy to have it in tiddlers and not independent files.
Regards
Tones
Keelan Cook
Oct 30, 2020, 7:07:20 AM10/30/20
to TiddlyWiki
Ivan,
It sounds like we're in a very similar boat. I work in academics, and I've recently started using TiddlyWiki for its strengths in networked thought and open source nature. I know very little about coding, so I've had many of the same questions you're asking. Currently, I'm using a single-file wiki (not a node version with individual files), and it's working very well for me at this point.
My primary use case is academic research. In specific collecting notes on research and then connecting and compiling those notes in a way that allows me to outline, draft, and eventually write up new scholarship. That means tons of notes and specifically a mountain of PDFs. I have found TiddlyWiki to be excellent at connecting, compiling, outlining, and even drafting. I then export my finished articles to another tool for printing or publishing.
I believe your notes are more future-proof in a TiddlyWiki than they are in most other note-taking tools. It's been mentioned in other comments so far, but an HTML file is essentially a text file than can be human readable even if the unthinkable happened and there was a wholesale shift away from browsers reading HTML to render websites. Futhermore, it really seems unthinkable for HTML and browsers that read it to go away. From my limited understanding they appear to be the backbone of the (frontend of the) internet. I use a Chromebook personally and more and more it seems computers are really just gateways to connect us to the internet to do everything. So, I think we're safe with HTML documents for a very long time.
As for PDFs, this is a real concern you need to consider. It's been said above already, but you don't want to store the PDFs in the wiki itself. I have several thousand notes in my single-file wiki currently, and it runs just fine. But, none of those notes are embedded images and files, and I did that on purpose based on the wise counsel of this group. Instead, I've chosen to use a reference manager to house my PDF files and link to them or reference them by citation. It works well for me, and it keeps the wiki running smooth. I use Paperpile as my reference manager. It indexes all of my PDF articles and any books or other sources I use in my research. It also has it's own PDF annotation tools, so I read and annotate my PDFs in Paperpile and then export any notes I want to make more "permanent" in my research to TiddlyWiki. I upload the PDF to Paperpile and it stores it in my Google Drive, so I still maintain control of the actual file. This also creates a shareable link to the PDF itself. You can link to the file that way in TiddlyWiki.
In addition, I use two plugins that facilitate this process. The first is the bibtex plugin you can find in the main plugin library for TiddlyWiki. It allows you to export a bibtex (bibliography file) from your reference manager and upload it to TiddlyWiki in a way that parses out all of the sources and creates a reference tiddler for every book or article. Then, I use the refnotes plugin to easily cite these sources in my other notes. The refnotes plugin works in the background to compile a works cited for projects I'm drafting and allows me to easily cite references on my notes so I know where they originated.
It sounds like we're in a very similar boat. I work in academics, and I've recently started using TiddlyWiki for its strengths in networked thought and open source nature. I know very little about coding, so I've had many of the same questions you're asking. Currently, I'm using a single-file wiki (not a node version with individual files), and it's working very well for me at this point.
My primary use case is academic research. In specific collecting notes on research and then connecting and compiling those notes in a way that allows me to outline, draft, and eventually write up new scholarship. That means tons of notes and specifically a mountain of PDFs. I have found TiddlyWiki to be excellent at connecting, compiling, outlining, and even drafting. I then export my finished articles to another tool for printing or publishing.
I believe your notes are more future-proof in a TiddlyWiki than they are in most other note-taking tools. It's been mentioned in other comments so far, but an HTML file is essentially a text file than can be human readable even if the unthinkable happened and there was a wholesale shift away from browsers reading HTML to render websites. Futhermore, it really seems unthinkable for HTML and browsers that read it to go away. From my limited understanding they appear to be the backbone of the (frontend of the) internet. I use a Chromebook personally and more and more it seems computers are really just gateways to connect us to the internet to do everything. So, I think we're safe with HTML documents for a very long time.
As for PDFs, this is a real concern you need to consider. It's been said above already, but you don't want to store the PDFs in the wiki itself. I have several thousand notes in my single-file wiki currently, and it runs just fine. But, none of those notes are embedded images and files, and I did that on purpose based on the wise counsel of this group. Instead, I've chosen to use a reference manager to house my PDF files and link to them or reference them by citation. It works well for me, and it keeps the wiki running smooth. I use Paperpile as my reference manager. It indexes all of my PDF articles and any books or other sources I use in my research. It also has it's own PDF annotation tools, so I read and annotate my PDFs in Paperpile and then export any notes I want to make more "permanent" in my research to TiddlyWiki. I upload the PDF to Paperpile and it stores it in my Google Drive, so I still maintain control of the actual file. This also creates a shareable link to the PDF itself. You can link to the file that way in TiddlyWiki.
In addition, I use two plugins that facilitate this process. The first is the bibtex plugin you can find in the main plugin library for TiddlyWiki. It allows you to export a bibtex (bibliography file) from your reference manager and upload it to TiddlyWiki in a way that parses out all of the sources and creates a reference tiddler for every book or article. Then, I use the refnotes plugin to easily cite these sources in my other notes. The refnotes plugin works in the background to compile a works cited for projects I'm drafting and allows me to easily cite references on my notes so I know where they originated.
Paperpile is not the only reference manager out there. Zotero and Mendeley are probably the two most popular, and they share most of this functionality I just mentioned. But I really like the combined ability of using a good reference manager with the power of TiddlyWiki.
Hope that helps you think through options some. I've spent the better part of this year thinking through all of this myself, and this is where I landed.
Good luck!
Hope that helps you think through options some. I've spent the better part of this year thinking through all of this myself, and this is where I landed.
Good luck!
TiddlyTweeter
Nov 2, 2020, 9:57:30 AM11/2/20
to TiddlyWiki
Keelan Cook wrote:
I believe your notes are more future-proof in a TiddlyWiki than they are in most other note-taking tools. It's been mentioned in other comments so far, but an HTML file is essentially a text file than can be human readable even if the unthinkable happened and there was a wholesale shift away from browsers reading HTML to render websites. Futhermore, it really seems unthinkable for HTML and browsers that read it to go away. From my limited understanding they appear to be the backbone of the (frontend of the) internet. I use a Chromebook personally and more and more it seems computers are really just gateways to connect us to the internet to do everything. So, I think we're safe with HTML documents for a very long time.
This is a VERY important issue if you are concerned LONG TERM. The history of tech on-net is littered with casualties.
TW is a very good BEST BET where you need TEXT (HTML), BEAUTY (CSS) and INTELLIGENCE (JavaScript) forever.
All three standards are here to stay and are backwards compatible. I've tested with age-old TW they work.
To give an example: On a 2014 Android phone the BROWSER is totally kaput, but the TW from then is absolutely FINE.
Best wishes
TT
V
Nov 2, 2020, 10:07:53 AM11/2/20
to TiddlyWiki
NoteSelf (it is a separate version of TW) should help with both problems. It uses IndexedDB (PouchDB) in browser and CouchDB for syncing between devices. So:
- File won't become larger, loading won't become slower
- Syncing with different tabs should be OK
четверг, 29 октября 2020 г. в 21:14:11 UTC+3, IvanPsy:
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages