Announcing 4 New Plugins (sort of)

[admls]

Hi Folks,

I'm sort of publishing 4 plugins that create a flexible, customizable ui:

* Repopup

* Volant

* Engine

* Mentat

You can go check them out over here https://admls.github.io/Mentat/

Why "sort of"? Because I'm having trouble with the packaging from node, is why. In any case, I wanted to put these out there so that anyone who wishes to may experiment with them a bit. I'll work on figuring out how to get them packaged correctly in the coming days. I hope you enjoy them!

Best wishes,

admls

P.s. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to improve them. This is my first sort of major programming project, so I'd love to learn how to polish it a bit.

Edit: Here is the github repo if you want to raise an issue/request a feature: https://github.com/admls/Mentat

[admls]

Oh yeah. Not suited to mobile. I've only worked on the desktop side of it thus far. Cheers!

[Birthe C]

This is totally wild, I did not think something like this was possible in a tiddlywiki. I know I'll have to play with this - and it is already late night/early morning where I am.

Fun and super nice, thank you.

Birthe

[Mohammad]

Hi admls,

These plugins are really amazing. 

Many thanks. Please ask David to add to Tiddlywiki toolmap.

For me they have alot of thing to learn.

--Mohammad

[TonyM]

admls,

Very nice and Quite exciting. Your solutions do not dictate use, just enable some valuable features. I am looking forward to playing more with them. I am keen to see if I can just add them to an existing complex wiki and use it for better workflow options. 

I have a "Move to New Window" button which opens a tiddler in a new window and closes it in the story. This would work nicely with your tools in multi-screen environments.

Perhaps you could also think of enabling move to back, but I am not sure of the best way to find them again, perhaps using the link in the open sidebar tab.

Tools like this should be wrapped into some nice demos especially for inspiration and people trying to learn the power of tiddlywiki, tiddlywiki is quite good at breaking its own rules, as you demonstrate here.

Good stuff and thanks for sharing.

Tony

[Ton Gerner]

Hi admls,

Very impressive.

Thanks for sharing,

Ton

[JD]

Hi admls,

Wow! This is so cool! The tiddlers stay within the browser when resizing the window, and it looks so easy to style! 

This will change my desktop tw-ing habits. No longer do I need to keep a separate notepad.exe running as a clipboard when I can use a tiddler served through Mentat instead! Aah... am already thinking of the efficiency this will add to my workflow...

Thank you so much for sharing!

-jd

[admls]

Hi Everybody!

Thank you all for your kind words. I worked really hard on this and it is a huge relief that it might add something to the community!

With the help of several people on this forum, the plugin packaging issues I have had have been sorted. Here's the link to the demo again: Mentat Demo. Please backup your wikis! And keep in mind that, unfortunately, the Volant plugin overwrites $:/core/ui/EditTemplate and $:/core/ui/ViewTemplate. I couldn't find any other way to make the popups work correctly. 

That said, enjoy!

@TonyM:

Perhaps you could also think of enabling move to back, but I am not sure of the best way to find them again, perhaps using the link in the open sidebar tab.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about moving back. Could you elaborate a bit? Like a back button for the story window tiddlers?

Best wishes,

Admls

[Joshua Fontany]

Wow, very impressed. You've put a lot of work into this and it shows!

Best,
Joshua F

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I did suggest, recently, TW was entering its Golden Age.

This is a great example of a user who understands what has been done before and goes further. 

And surprises old curmudgeons.

I HOPE SOMEONE IS TAKING NOTES?

There is so much happening this might get lost. It shouldn't.

Josiah

[passingby]

Great work! I can imagine using this on a large desktop screen. Often to make notes I have a pdf open on the side. Now I can copy text onto a tiddler and keep it open on the side while I work on making notes in my main tiddler. This will be so much efficient.

[TonyM]

Admls,

I apologize for asking for new features, of an already powerful solution, the thing is your solution is very inspiring.

Sorry I should have made it clearer. Imagine you are in a Vector diagram editor, Photoshop etc... you can move items between layers.

That we could select a tiddler and "Move to Back" would be like placing it on the background such that other "Floating" tiddlers, even standard tiddlers, would be in the midground. Selecting a tiddler and move to front would pull that tiddler forward so that it would overlap other tiddlers. To maintain control an intermediate position of middleground (perhaps as currently is operating). Of course when we click on a tiddler it will be displayed fully, clicking another it will return to the position. Your pileup does this according to the active tiddler, but when we are focused on another perhaps they could move to their set position.

This would allow dashboards with a higher screen density where clicking on part of the tiddler will make it visible. This starts to resemble the way we can arrange applications on our Desktop. 

Which  makes me wonder;

• Perhaps we could "minimise" a tiddler to a row at the bottom of the screen such that clicking will open it "Restore" in the previous positions, and full screen the tiddler as well.
• Provide a larger virtual wiki space, large than the physical screen in which we can arrange tiddlers, with mouse or arrow keys scrolling left/right up/down.
• This would allow those popular and "sexy" presentations that move the perspective not the content - if you know what I mean
• With a zoom out option to see them all.
• I would be keen to see a filter based and "multiple engines" option, for example when I change projects be able to display the key tiddlers for that project.

There has being a proposed feature for "Stacked" story view that is continuously held back for later release, see bottom of https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/#TiddlyWiki%20Pre-release this may be able to be implemented in your solution but may require more levels than background, middleground and foreground.

I am really looking forward to the potential of your solution when using tiddlers with internal navigation or iframes to other sites and wikis. It may behave like a Wiki of Wikis.

Regards

Tony

[admls]

Hi TonyM,

Imagine you are in a Vector diagram editor, Photoshop etc... you can move items between layers.

That we could select a tiddler and "Move to Back" would be like placing it on the background such that other "Floating" tiddlers, even standard tiddlers, would be in the midground.

Gotcha. Okay. Interesting idea. I'm not sure about incorporating standard tiddlers. I sort of feel that same effect is achievable in a story window tiddler, but it gives you other options as well. But moving to the back could be nice. Trying to think of a nice way that could be accessible in the UI without creating clutter. Food for thought.

Of course when we click on a tiddler it will be displayed fully, clicking another it will return to the position. Your pileup does this according to the active tiddler, but when we are focused on another perhaps they could move to their set position.

Is that a set position in depth? That's interesting. I took an approach that favors recency. I think adding a set depth to each tiddler is certainly possible. But it might start to get troublesome if you have various configurations that you like to flip through. If it is in Mentat, the depth of windows could be configured by session just as the other position information is. But if we are just dealing with vanilla Volant tiddlers, that might not work without adding a fairly complex system.

If you aren't talking about a set position in depth, the maximize system does just that. But it has only been configured to work with window tiddlers. That could be changed however. Are you talking about having the change occur whenever you click on a tiddler? Or just when you use a button like the maximize button?

Perhaps we could "minimise" a tiddler to a row at the bottom of the screen such that clicking will open it "Restore" in the previous positions, and full screen the tiddler as well.

This is a great idea. The Mentat plugin has an Engine tiddler that holds windows at the bottom of the viewport, but they're just buttons. Interesting to think about making a sort of icon of the window. It might be costly in terms of performance, I don't rightly know, but that would make Mentat feel more like a desktop, which was a big inspiration for the interface.

• Provide a larger virtual wiki space, large than the physical screen in which we can arrange tiddlers, with mouse or arrow keys scrolling left/right up/down.
• This would allow those popular and "sexy" presentations that move the perspective not the content - if you know what I mean
• With a zoom out option to see them all.

That's what $:/VolantAbsolute tiddlers are for. Eventually. Engine and Mentat are explorations of the fixed $:/Volant tiddlers. But the $:/VolantAbsolute tiddlers will get their time in the sun, too, I think. I need to take a break and work on some other projects, but that's very much on my radar. In part, the easy drag mode was put in place with this in mind. If you zoom out, you're not going to be able to grab the margins. You'll want to be able to simply grab the whole tiddler.

I would be keen to see a filter based and "multiple engines" option, for example when I change projects be able to display the key tiddlers for that project.

Yes. I think that's a good idea at some point. I erred on the side of having things quickly configurable but simple with the Engine plugin. There were already so many new systems to grapple with. But yeah, I think that could be useful.

There has being a proposed feature for "Stacked" story view that is continuously held back for later release, see bottom of https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/#TiddlyWiki%20Pre-release this may be able to be implemented in your solution but may require more levels than background, middleground and foreground.

I think the Volant plugin might be overkill for that. But I should think it would be possible.

I am really looking forward to the potential of your solution when using tiddlers with internal navigation or iframes to other sites and wikis. It may behave like a Wiki of Wikis

Wiki of Wikis sounds really cool. To my mind, ideally Tiddlywiki would be a one-stop-shop for all a person's notes and information. Having the ability to seamlessly navigate from wiki to wiki would be amazing. 

Thanks for all the suggestions. It may be a few months before I have the chance to take on any of this stuff. I'm trying to get job ready with the programming at the moment, and I'm a bit behind where I want to be. But I definitely plan on returning to this stuff!

Best wishes,

Admls

[Birthe C]

Admis,

In tiddler AltNavigation, 

Try clicking on these links while holding the Alt key, absolutely nothing happens, same with ShiftNavigation.

Birthe

[Adam Sherwood]

Hi Birthe,

Strange. Maybe it's some kind of problem caused by compiling the plugin. I'll check it out and get back to you. Thanks for pointing this out!

Best wishes,

Admls

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[admls]

Hmm. I'm unable to reproduce the bug. Are you on Mac or Windows? What browser are you using? I don't know if that will make a difference or not, but it would be good to know if there's some sort of pattern. Is anyone else getting this bug?

Best wishes,

admls

[Birthe C]

Hi Admis,

Oh, I guess that is the reason. I am using Linux Mint and my browser is Chromium.

Birthe

[admls]

Hi Birthe,

I'm trying Chromium in windows and it seems to be working fine, mostly. The first click on the first link that is modified with altkey doesn't do anything. But then, if I click it again with the altkey, it works fine. Shiftkey seems to work fine, too.

I did a bit of reading about it. The modifier key behavior seems to be different for Chromium when it is running on Linux. I'm not sure how to address this exactly. Do the alt and shift modifier keys work when you are on some other page? I think shift opens a new window and alt downloads the link (or at least, that's what they do in Windows).

Best wishes,

admls

Do the shiftkey and altkey modifiers work outside of tiddlywiki?

[Birthe C]

Hi Admis,

Well I tested some more. The keys work sort of outside of Tiddlywiki. I am on a laptop and the backlight turned down. It shouldn't, there are special keys for that. (The good part ...now I found those keys....;-)

I tested your tiddlywiki in Firefox on Linux also, that did not work for me either.

I do not think it matters all that much, the link open i a window tab. I love that we are able to drag the tab from one window to another.

Thanks,

Birthe

[Birthe C]

Okay. in Chromium on Linux, Ctrl+Alt click link works.

Birthe

[admls]

ctrl+alt opens the link in a new window tiddler? That's excellent. How about the shiftkey modifier? Any luck there?

[Birthe C]

Sorry, I am not sure, what shift is supposed to do. If I have a tiddler title in one window and the link to the same title in another window. Shift click the link will open the title in a tab in the same window as the link. Clicking goes to the original window with the title.

Birthe

[admls]

Yep. That sounds like it's working.

Thanks, Birthe!

[Elijah]

Why are you packaging each plugin's plugin-tiddler into itself? $:/plugins/admls/mentat doesn't need to contain $:/plugins/admls/mentat, and none of the others need contain their own respective plugin-tiddlers. Doing so is causing an issue when importing your plugins into other Tiddlywikis, whereby they do not appear at all. I don't know how packaging works on Node.js, but when I repackage each plugin, using the Web Console, in Firefox, without including the main plugin-tiddlers, everything works fine for the most-part, though I do notice some of your plugins are missing a few tiddlers in their packages.

I'm very new to creating plugins for Tiddlywiki, so I may be missing something, but thought I'd mention it anyway, in case it helps.

[admls]

Hi Elijah,

I'm using TheDiveO's ThirdFlow plugin for the plugin development. On the whole, it has been really awesome. But packaging up the tiddlers has been a bit buggy. I am working on getting it sorted out. Amongt other issues, the ThirdFlow automatically packages every tiddler prefixed with $:/plugins/admls/mentat into $:/plugins/admls/mentat, which includes $:/plugins/admls/mentat. The other issue is that it isn't packaging in some of the things I'm trying to include since they don't begin with $:/plugins/admls/mentat. That's why they're missing some of the tiddlers they need to have.

I just pushed a new release. It's better. It's got the tiddlers it needs. There are still a few bugs, so make sure you backup your data. I'll keep squashing bugs in the meantime.

Best wishes,

admls

Edit: Nope. I was wrong. It wasn't a problem with ThirdFlow. It was my own fault I included the plugin tiddler in itself. Just found my mistake.

Edit2: New release is live.

[Birthe C]

Hi Admis,

As far as I can see, you have very few places that could be translated, but even so it would be nice to have an easy way of doing that. You see, your plugins are going to be VERY popular ;-)

To my knowledge very few plugin authors has done that. Thomas Elmiger did. The translations are in his Listreveal plugin https://tid.li/tw5/plugins.html#%24%3A%2Fplugins%2Ftelmiger%2Flistreveal. Jan also did in Metatabs you can find it here: http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com/#About%20MetaTabs.

Benefit: You avoid people (like myself) messing around with your plugins.

(I do realize this if of low priority)

Birthe

[BurningTreeC]

Hi @admls, this is an amazing work, big thumbs up!

Thanks for mentioning my hammer widgets, I can see some parallels, but you're really bringing the pieces together so that they can be used right away

I was hoping for something like your plugins and they look great

keep up the good work and have a nice weekend!

[Birthe C]

Hi Admis,

Importing your plugins to another Tiddlywiki using another palette makes the plugin buttons invisible. ($:/Topbar and $:/Sidebar)

Birthe

[Birthe C]

Hi Admis,

The tagpill dropdown is hm let's say enormous. i removed $:/tags/Stylesheet from $:/plugins/admls/repopup/styles/general. The tagpill dropdown is normal now, and everything else works the same.

Birthe

[admls]

Hi Birthe,

The tagpill dropdown is hm let's say enormous.

Wow. Yeah. You weren't kidding. That stylesheet makes some of the scrolling a little bit nicer on some of the dropdown boxes. The issue can be fixed by making width and height into max-width and max-height.

The repopup plugin is a sort of hacked together thing. I think the core popup mechanism is in need of an overhaul, particularly if it is going to be used in tiddlers of a fixed size (due to overflow: scroll). Hopefully, the repopup plugin will get to be retired at some point.

Importing your plugins to another Tiddlywiki using another palette makes the plugin buttons invisible. ($:/Topbar and $:/Sidebar)

I don't understand exactly what is going on. Could you elaborate? I'm not sure what to do to reproduce the problem. What palette is it and which buttons?

As far as I can see, you have very few places that could be translated, but even so it would be nice to have an easy way of doing that. You see, your plugins are going to be VERY popular ;-)

Thank you! I hope they can be useful! I have given the issue of translation little to no thought. But I'll look into how that works!

Keep the issues comin', Birthe! I may not be very quick to correct them, but I hope to be able to keep improving things little by little! Thanks for running this thing through its paces!

Hi @BurningTreeC,

Thank you! I've really enjoyed and admired your work. As such, I'd love to hear what you think could be improved; what might make the Volant plugin, in particularly, stable and dependable enough to be a base for other plugins.

Best wishes,

admls

[Birthe C]

Hi Admis,

The palette I used was "Blue - A blue theme" The first one listed in the palette tab.

The buttons are easy drag button, Create a new story window and Choose the story visualisation. They "disappear" but are visual when hovering.

But looking at it once more I found out that it is because the buttons turn white. So in classic view they are white on the blue background but of course they are not visible when changing to mentat.

Another palette "Rocker -A dark theme", only the save button is visible.

A warning that this can happen with some of the palette choices would be enough.

Birthe

[JD]

Hi admls! 

I've been using Volant extensively for a while now and would like to share two tiddlers that add some practicality for me... I don't mean for these to be added to your plugins but just some optional extra for people who'd like this too. They can be found and demoed here: 

http://j.d.volantis.tiddlyspot.com/

Also would like to report that I get some JS error with the following:

1. Have a tiddler tagged $:/Volant open and floating in the story river

2. Enable a page template that hides the story river and has dropdown menus of its own

3. Click on a drop down 

4. JS error

This bug can be reproduced here: http://j.d.ml.dev.tiddlyspot.com/

 
Again, thanks for this wonderful tool!

[Mohammad]

Thanks admls, 

Thanks JD

Volant is an incredible plugin and takes TW look and feel one step ahead!

Now, control buttons are added to top left! Is it possible to have another button arrange floating tiddlers like Windows 10?

I mean snap them to left, right, or top! This would be great for viewing the tiddlers side by side!

Ref:

1. https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-start/show-windows-side-by-side-in-windows-10/4d437298-310f-4429-9297-328406a2e941

--Mohammad

[Mohammad]

Some references on snap

1- https://www.nurgo-software.com/products/aquasnap

2- https://css-tricks.com/introducing-css-scroll-snap-points/

[TonyM]

Admls,

I was just experimenting on my three monitors. I can extend the whole browser window over all three screens, If I cant see the standard story river, as in the mentat story view the whole three monitors become my playground. 

However if I have tiddlers tagged as windows, but not in mentat view the story river is as wide as the three screens (less the sidebar if displayed).

It would be nice to be able to limit this width to one screen or less so we can see both the left and right hand side of the story tiddlers in that screen and leave the rest as a playground for other window tiddlers. 

I attempted to

• Set a value in Control Panel > Appearance > Theme Tweeks
• Somewhere in mentat, I only see maximise width not set width. 

Any suggestions on how to would help. 

If you could describe a little more on the demo site how one would go about using it for the new commer I would appreciate it. It is quite easy to get disoriented. 

Thanks

Tony

[admls]

Hi Everybody,

Thanks for all the feedback! I'm starting to think we need to reorganize things somewhat to facilitate better collaboration on this. Any ideas on that front?

@Birthe

The buttons are easy drag button, Create a new story window and Choose the story visualisation. They "disappear" but are visual when hovering.

But looking at it once more I found out that it is because the buttons turn white. So in classic view they are white on the blue background but of course they are not visible when changing to mentat.

I haven't had a chance to look at the palette issue yet, but I suspect it is a straightforward css fix if the issue is happening to Volant specific buttons. If it is happening to menu buttons generally, that'll be a bigger issue. I'll look at that today if I get the chance.

@JD

I've been using Volant extensively for a while now and would like to share two tiddlers that add some practicality for me... I don't mean for these to be added to your plugins but just some optional extra for people who'd like this too. They can be found and demoed here:

Your design work is always fantastic. I would be interested in what you can do to make the ui more elegant in my plugins. If we can figure out a way to effectively collaborate on this, I'd be open to that (no pressure, of course). I definitely think that transparent resizers is an improvement. Once volant tiddlers became sufficiently familiar in the tiddlywiki community, I am hoping that can become the default. I look forward to what you'll do with these plugins!

One note about your stylesheet: you are getting every volant tiddler by title. I don't think that necessary. That happens in the Volant plugin because each tiddler is getting different information about their position on the screen. But I don't think its necessary for what you're doing. Every volant tiddler can be css selected with ".volant". Though, if you are wanting to get only those tiddlers tagged $:/Volant, I realize I need to change $:/VolantAbsolute. Because as it stands now, [data-tags*="$:/Volant"] will select all the tiddlers tagged $:/VolantAbsolute as well as those tagged $:/Volant, which may not be what you want. Though, maybe you could do [data-tags*="$:/Volant"]:not([data-tags*="$:/VolantAbsolute"]). I realize that's not pretty. I'll have a look at changing $:/VolantAbsolute. Maybe $:/AbsoluteVolant would be better.

Also would like to report that I get some JS error with the following:

That's the Repopup plugin acting up. I'm not sure why it is doing that exactly on the page you showed me. But I know what the code is that's doing it. I'll have a look at it tonight if I get the chance. That expense tracker is awesome, by the way!

@Mohammad

Is it possible to have another button arrange floating tiddlers like Windows 10?I mean snap them to left, right, or top! This would be great for viewing the tiddlers side by side!

 I don't think this belongs in the volant plugin, but it can very easily be an addon. I have an idea how to implement it. It uses the same mechanism that reset uses. If the tiddlywiki hotkey system (which I know very little about) will support it, I think hotkeys could be a good way to do this, just as in some of your references. That would avoid cluttering the ui visually anymore than it already is while still giving you the functionality you are looking for. I'll take a look at this thing this week if I get the chance. It's a cool idea. I like how fast it could feel. I think it should be relatively straightforward to implement (but I often think that before I actually try coding it).

@TonyM

It would be nice to be able to limit this width to one screen or less so we can see both the left and right hand side of the story tiddlers in that screen and leave the rest as a playground for other window tiddlers.

I'm not entirely sure where to start with this. Does the normal story river do the same thing, or is it only the Mentat story windows? I don't have 3 monitors, making anything I do tricky to test. I have one idea that might work if it is a problem that only affects the story windows. But I need to have a look at the code. I'll check it out.

If you could describe a little more on the demo site how one would go about using it for the new commer I would appreciate it. It is quite easy to get disoriented.

The demos and docs are definitely sparse. They need a lot of help, and this is an aspect of the process that I struggle with. The code, itself, is in a similar state of inaccessibility. It is an issue I know needs to be addressed in a big way.

@Everybody again

Thanks again for all the feedback! Just so you know, there could be a lot of changes to how these plugins work in the coming months. So be aware if you are building something that relies on them heavily, the ground might just shift beneath your feet. I know this isn't an ideal, but I think if something needs restructured in a big way, I'd rather do it sooner than later.

Also, remember to back up your wikis! I make no guarantees on that front (or any front).

Thanks for using my plugins!

Best wishes,

admls

[admls]

 Hi Everybody,

Actually, if everybody with a github account could raise the issues on https://github.com/admls/Mentat that would be helpful. I'm already losing track of what needs to be looked at. Fine to raise it here too, of course, but please link to the issue on github. That will make it a bit easier for me to keep track and to keep the conversations separate instead of bombarding everyone with my responses to everyone else. If you don't have a github account, no worries. Just keep raising issues here in the forum. All issues welcome: bugs, feature requests, etc.

Best wishes,

adamls

[Jan]

Hi admls,
i just realized what a fantastic thing you did there. I desired this for a year.
Did you already explain on what mechanism you built this?

At the moment it doesnt seem to get touch-gestures (or is this my browser/my tablet fault?)

Thanks a lot for this it is a big puzzlestone in making tw an even greater application to work in classrooms!

Ahoi! Jan





Am 12.03.2019 um 12:29 schrieb JD:

Hi admls,

Wow! This is so cool! The tiddlers stay within the browser when resizing the window, and it looks so easy to style! 

This will change my desktop tw-ing habits. No longer do I need to keep a separate notepad.exe running as a clipboard when I can use a tiddler served through Mentat instead! Aah... am already thinking of the efficiency this will add to my workflow...

Thank you so much for sharing!

-jd

On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 11:23:34 AM UTC+9, admls wrote:

Hi Folks,

I'm sort of publishing 4 plugins that create a flexible, customizable ui:

* Repopup

* Volant

* Engine

* Mentat

You can go check them out over here https://admls.github.io/Mentat/

Why "sort of"? Because I'm having trouble with the packaging from node, is why. In any case, I wanted to put these out there so that anyone who wishes to may experiment with them a bit. I'll work on figuring out how to get them packaged correctly in the coming days. I hope you enjoy them!

Best wishes,

admls

P.s. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to improve them. This is my first sort of major programming project, so I'd love to learn how to polish it a bit.

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[admls]

Hi Jan,

Thank you! It has a long way to go yet, but I think it is promising!

At the moment it doesn't seem to get touch-gestures (or is this my browser/my tablet fault?)

You're right. That's definitely on my to-do list. I thought it would be best to get the desktop version out and see if there is enough interest before diving into mobile/touch features (as it is further outside my wheelhouse).

Did you already explain on what mechanism you built this?

It's a widget that gets transcluded into tiddlers. The widget finds what tiddler it is in and adds a couple of eventListeners. Then there are some global modules that handle the event system. Then there's a storyview and another global to handle navigation in that storyview (since it is fairly complex). There's some unfortunate template mangling that happens along the way (hopefully, a more easily configurable template system will come along and this won't be necessary). And there's a hacky plugin for managing popups and dropdowns. That's the whole thing in a nutshell!

Best wishes,

admls

[BurningTreeC]

Hi Jan,

Thank you! It has a long way to go yet, but I think it is promising!

At the moment it doesn't seem to get touch-gestures (or is this my browser/my tablet fault?)

You're right. That's definitely on my to-do list. I thought it would be best to get the desktop version out and see if there is enough interest before diving into mobile/touch features (as it is further outside my wheelhouse).

Hi @admls, I can help with that! It's pretty easy, maybe you already know what to do with a description (I can also help with an example later):

- there's the hammerjs plugin in the tiddlywiki plugin library, you can require that on top of your tiddler where you listen for the dragging events, like

if($tw.browser && !window.Hammer) {
window.Hammer = require("$:/plugins/tiddlywiki/hammerjs/hammer.js");
}

Hammer does the things needed so that you can drag with mouse and fingers

in your widget's "render" function you could do:

this.hammer = new Hammer.Manager(domNode);

this.hammer.add(new Hammer.Pan({

event: 'pan',

pointers: 1,

threshold: 0,

direction: Hammer.DIRECTION_ALL

}));

then you can add the drag-listener:

this.hammer.on('touchmove panstart panmove dragstart draginit drag', function(event) {
//do something while dragging, move domNode using coordinates in event
});

and the dragend:

.on('panend pancancel touchend mouseup dragend draginitup', function(e) {
//dragging finished
});

You can see a full example here: http://hamschinken.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fplugins%2FBurningTreeC%2FHammerWidgets%2Fmodules%2Fwidgets%2Fmove.js

 

all the best, btc

[TonyM]

Admls,

The collaboration issue on tiddlywiki, especially hosted single file wikis, is still a challenge but solutions are now available. I am working on this but I will not have a packaged solution for some time.

Can I suggest using bimlas' disqus or the other from WordPress.you can have discussions on and independent from the wiki.

With 5.1.20 we can add local storage and build more collaboration features until then a external commenting system appears the best way to discuss and github for formal issues.

Regards
Tony

[Jan]

Hi Simon, Hi admls,
great, volant looks pretty like movable. You know how I longed for that!
Yours Jan

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[BurningTreeC]

Hi Simon, Hi admls,
great, volant looks pretty like movable. You know how I longed for that!
Yours Jan

Movable is more a trial in finding usecases, volant achieves making the functionality usable right away, the direction these plugins are going is very pro-user, which I failed to achieve

I hope I can bring a bit of my knowledge in where it's needed

[admls]

Hi BurningTreeC,

I hope I can bring a bit of my knowledge in where it's needed

That sounds excellent! There's no pressure of course, but if you want to collaborate on this, I'd really welcome it. The code is in an unfortunate state of not being well-commented, which may make it difficult to contribute to at the moment, but I need to resolve that anyway. Having looked at and admired your tiddlywiki work, I think we have similar enough ui instincts that we could probably collaborate pretty effectively. I have a notion of how to implement your dashboard-style drawing-a-new-tiddler-into-existence idea as an add-on to volant, for example. And I'm sure you see lots of things in volant, mentat, etc that could be improved upon. I'm very open to having my ideas and implementations critiqued; so don't be concerned on that score. I want to make as useful a piece of software as possible and learn as much as possible in the process. Collaborating with someone with a lot more experience than myself would be quite the boon.

In any case, no pressure. But if there's a way you can think of that I can facilitate your collaboration on this, I'd be happy to do so!

Best wishes,

admls

[admls]

Hi Tony,

I'm a little concerned about using a commenting solution like bimlas' disqus due to how much the plugins might change in the near future. I don't understand bimlas' plugin very well, but I'm a concerned about comments and threads getting lost if tiddlers get renamed/deleted. Do you think it would work to have it all on github, both formal and informal issues? Or do you see problems with that?

Best wishes,

admls

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao admls (and BTC & JD) and all ...

I wanted to pitch in as an end-user focused on practical writing needs.

I can see this is a major step in the basic presentation of information. It adds needed components. It, in effect, adds a flexible "dimensionality" to document creation.

In particular it, in one swoop, starts to deal with current limits of popups and modals  (that I avoided as often they don't deliver what is needed flexibly enough).

There are some issues to play with. For instance, on my hybrid touchscreen tablet / desktop, in DT mode its fully working, though in TS mode not.

But that is a quibble. The approach seems conceptually spot-on.

I can't help on coding but more than willing to test and comment.

Very best wishes

Josiah

admls wrote:

I'm ... publishing 4 plugins that create a flexible, customizable ui:

[Mohammad]

Hi Admls,

Please have a look at (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/zpzMoGUGM0g/_u1DT6V4BwAJ) 

Is it possible to use this feature to NOT overwrite any of core tiddler including those overwritten by Volant?

@Mohammad

Is it possible to have another button arrange floating tiddlers like Windows 10?I mean snap them to left, right, or top! This would be great for viewing the tiddlers side by side!

 I don't think this belongs in the volant plugin, but it can very easily be an addon. I have an idea how to implement it. It uses the same mechanism that reset uses. If the tiddlywiki hotkey system (which I know very little about) will support it, I think hotkeys could be a good way to do this, just as in some of your references. That would avoid cluttering the ui visually anymore than it already is while still giving you the functionality you are looking for. I'll take a look at this thing this week if I get the chance. It's a cool idea. I like how fast it could feel. I think it should be relatively straightforward to implement (but I often think that before I actually try coding it).

Regarding snap tiddler window, I am not good at JS to help, but this would be a great feature and I would appreciate to put this feature in the Volant planned feature list.

I like also to add one more reference here

https://codepen.io/zz85/post/resizing-moving-snapping-windows-with-js-css

Thank you

Mohammad

[BurningTreeC]

Am Dienstag, 19. März 2019 12:08:30 UTC+1 schrieb admls:

Hi BurningTreeC,

I hope I can bring a bit of my knowledge in where it's needed

That sounds excellent! There's no pressure of course, but if you want to collaborate on this, I'd really welcome it. The code is in an unfortunate state of not being well-commented, which may make it difficult to contribute to at the moment, but I need to resolve that anyway. Having looked at and admired your tiddlywiki work, I think we have similar enough ui instincts that we could probably collaborate pretty effectively. I have a notion of how to implement your dashboard-style drawing-a-new-tiddler-into-existence idea as an add-on to volant, for example. And I'm sure you see lots of things in volant, mentat, etc that could be improved upon. I'm very open to having my ideas and implementations critiqued; so don't be concerned on that score. I want to make as useful a piece of software as possible and learn as much as possible in the process. Collaborating with someone with a lot more experience than myself would be quite the boon.

In any case, no pressure. But if there's a way you can think of that I can facilitate your collaboration on this, I'd be happy to do so!

Great, sounds very good. Sorry but I haven't followed the whole thread, is there a repository somewhere or something else where others can join in? Otherwise we can surely organize in different ways

I would just add some comments at points I understand and where I have a little experience

[Jan]

Hi admls.
I installed it now and I am still fascinated!
Great work you did.

In the outdated FF38 Browser  I use for testing comabilty the Plugin throws some bugs.
Syntax error in boot module $:/plugins/admls/volant/globals/volant.js:128: _boot/$tw.utils.evalGlobal@http://szenio.de/volare/:18460:8 _boot/$tw.modules.execute@http://szenio.de/volare/:18749:5 _boot/$tw.modules.forEachModuleOfType/<@http://szenio.de/volare/:18789:18 _boot/$tw.utils.each@http://szenio.de/volare/:18095:12 _boot/$tw.modules.forEachModuleOfType@http://szenio.de/volare/:18788:2 _boot/$tw.modules.applyMethods@http://szenio.de/volare/:18812:2 exports.startup@$:/core/modules/startup/load-modules.js:26:2 _boot/$tw.boot.executeNextStartupTask@http://szenio.de/volare/:20118:5 _boot/$tw.boot.startup@http://szenio.de/volare/:20075:2 _boot/$tw.boot.boot/<@http://szenio.de/volare/:20228:3 _boot/$tw.boot.decryptEncryptedTiddlers@http://szenio.de/volare/:19415:3 _boot/$tw.boot.boot@http://szenio.de/volare/:20226:2 _boot@http://szenio.de/volare/:20235:2 @http://szenio.de/volare/:20245:2

I hope this helps increasing compatibility, but don't worry, on the new ones  all is fine.

Some suggestions:
-Especially changing the horizontal size is a little bit difficult, because you easily move too fast and loose connection to the button. Perhaps you can make the corner bigger on click or hover to ease this.
-Perhaps you could allow a mode where horizontal Size is determined by the content on click
-It could be an Idea to make a button to switch between $:/Volant and
$:/VolantAbsolute
-Editing is not so easy in a tiny box. I could imagine it would be easier if the frames had just a button triggering a modal for editing like in Tiddlymap. This could be usefull to enlarge content  as well.

To finish with an appraisal: Volant works great with images width 100%, You could include that in your demonstration.

Thank you so much!!
Jan

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[admls]

Hi @TiddlyTweeter,

I originally came to TW as a solution for writing as well. In a lot of ways, that has driven the development of Mentat. Like you say, it still has a ways to go. But It would be great to get your feedback throughout the process.

Hi @Mohammad,

I was just planning on adding some hooks to the main plugins and then hooking in with addons. The mechanism you linked to is really fascinating. I'll have to give it a more thorough look.

I think the snap idea is great. It shouldn't be hard to add the minimal snap behaviors. Some of the more complex stuff will be trickier.

Hi @BTC,

I forgot to link to the repository!! https://github.com/admls/Mentat

Hi @Jan,

I think some of the editing problems will go away when maximize is added to volant. You'll be able to quickly maximize the tiddler to edit, then return it to its normal size.

$:/VolantAbsolute needs a lot of love. I've basically been focusing on the fixed $:/Volant functionality. But extended $:/VolantAbsolute functionality is coming.

I haven't experienced the resizing issues, but making the button bigger on hover sounds like a good idea. I'll check it out.

Best wishes,

admls

[Mohammad]

Hi @Mohammad,

I was just planning on adding some hooks to the main plugins and then hooking in with addons. The mechanism you linked to is really fascinating. I'll have to give it a more thorough look.

I think the snap idea is great. It shouldn't be hard to add the minimal snap behaviors. Some of the more complex stuff will be trickier.

Many thanks on this admls. Please do not forget to have a look at w3.org (https://www.w3.org/TR/css-scroll-snap-1/)

One more news:

Right now I am using Volant with Tiddlywshow app, a Tiddlywiki presentation app and Volant lets me to have a slideshow control panel

in the second monitor, while I am presenting the slides in the first monitor. Thanks a million admls. 

I will publish a new Tiddlyshow update using Volant later on and will notify you!

Cheers

Mohammad

[TonyM]

Admls,

all for maximise, if you have a restore or intermediate window size so on multi screen as maximise would consume both screens.

Great work
Tony

[admls]

Hi @Mohammad,

    Many thanks on this admls. Please do not forget to have a look at w3.org (https://www.w3.org/TR/css-scroll-snap-1/)

Are you referencing this in connection to getting the volant tiddlers to snap to the side/top/bottom or is this a different feature you're looking for? I'm sorry, I don't entirely understand what you're getting at. Could you give me a description?

Also could you raise this as an issue on github if you have a github account? This thread is just starting to get cluttered.
Here's the repo:
https://github.com/admls/Mentat

Hi @Tony,

all for maximise, if you have a restore or intermediate window size so on multi screen as maximise would consume both screens.

Maximize with volant would probably be similar to the way it is for Mentat. In mentat, you can maximize and restore down window tiddlers. You can also easily configure the location and dimensions of maximized windows. Just open $:/plugins/admls/mentat/config/set-maximized-values, position it (default volant functionality must be enabled), and hit the button. Then you can close that tiddler and any window you maximize will be maximized to that position. You can then hit restore down and it will return to its previous position. You can only have one maximized tiddler at a time however.

In any case, you can set the maximized values to occupy just one screen. Any window you maximize will end up there.

However if I have tiddlers tagged as windows, but not in mentat view the story river is as wide as the three screens (less the sidebar if displayed).

It would be nice to be able to limit this width to one screen or less so we can see both the left and right hand side of the story tiddlers in that screen and leave the rest as a playground for other window tiddlers.

I just wanted to return to this issue you raised earlier. Mentat is intended to completely encapsulate all the other storyviews. If you are in mentat storyview, you can have your main story river in one window tiddler, and position that window to fill one monitor viewport. This will leave the other monitors open for whatever you want. You can archive your main story window in the mentat tab and return to it later. Or you can archive the layout or session to be able to switch to them quickly. In the mentat config, you can set the default storyview (classic, pop, zoomin) that will take place in new windows you create.

If you have Engine engaged as well, you can have the $:/Sidebar tiddler positioned wherever you see fit. The most basic configuration in Mentat would be one fullscreen window tiddler with the $:/Sidebar tiddler open to the side. This pretty much replicates the default page template.

Best wishes,

admls

[admls]

Hi Everybody,

Here's the repo where you can raise these issues/bugs/feature requests on github: https://github.com/admls/Mentat

Sorry I neglected to post that earlier.

It would really help me if you could raise issues over there. This thread is getting bloated and it is sort of difficult to keep track of the separate issues, let alone reply to them separately. So please, if you have already raised an issue or a bug, or if you have any new issues or bugs or feature requests (and you have a github account), raise the issue on https://github.com/admls/Mentat

Best wishes,

admls

[Mohammad]

Hi admls,

 Sure I will comment on GitHub!

On Wednesday, March 20, 2019 at 6:18:11 PM UTC+3:30, admls wrote:

Hi @Mohammad,

    Many thanks on this admls. Please do not forget to have a look at w3.org (https://www.w3.org/TR/css-scroll-snap-1/)


Are you referencing this in connection to getting the volant tiddlers to snap to the side/top/bottom or is this a different feature you're looking for? I'm sorry, I don't entirely understand what you're getting at. Could you give me a description?

This is the same! Snap to side, top, bottom! 

Best

Mohammad

[TonyM]

Fyi

Another form of snap, is snap to grid. Where rather than an infinite set of places and sizes, windows align them selves to the grid.

This can help the quick arrangement of windows..

See you in github

Tony