Button to save. Usability question.

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hello everyone.

Tiddlypouch, the plugin that turns your tiddlywiky into some kind of Evernote is still under development.

Now I am a bit confused about how to build the user interface.

I want to know your opinion about the save button. Plugins and their configuration tiddlers will not be saved to the database, instead you have to use a special button that will save the wiki fike just with the plugins and their configuration tiddlers. That button is accessible on the control panel. I was thinking that this is a bit uncomfortable. So what about overriding the current save button with a button that displays a drop down that allows you to choose the desired saving method?? Do you find it too intrusive

[Mat]

Heyo Danielo

Tiddlypouch, the plugin that turns your tiddlywiky into some kind of Evernote is still under development.

You really are working on cutting edge stuff. So cool.

 Plugins and their configuration tiddlers will not be saved to the database,

Why?

 

what about overriding the current save button with a button that displays a drop down that allows you to choose the desired saving method?? Do you find it too intrusive

Do I understand it right that the default save button will be pretty much obsolete when you're using TiddlyPouch, i.e that things sync automatically when they can?

Which saving methods would show in this eventual dropdown and how often would they be used, respectively? (You mention Evernote - did they face the same issue? If yes, how did they solve it?)

BTW, I haven't sat down with tiddlypouch just yet. Still my intention to do it though.

<:-)

[Sylvain Naudin]

Le mardi 9 juin 2015 20:34:37 UTC+2, Danielo Rodríguez a écrit :

I was thinking that this is a bit uncomfortable. So what about overriding the current save button with a button that displays a drop down that allows you to choose the desired saving method?? Do you find it too intrusive

Hi,
Yes, maybe too intrusive.
When I read sync/save, I think a sort of lightning icon, with color system (like save botton). I think I would hide standard save button if I use Tiddlypouch.

Sylvain

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hello Mat

You really are working on cutting edge stuff. So cool.

Thank you.

 

 Plugins and their configuration tiddlers will not be saved to the database,

Why?

Because a plugin is not the kind of thing you want to synchronize with a database. Plugins are executable bites of TW and should not be mixed with user data. There are several reasons for this. One very important one is that plugins are loaded during boot process, and a sync adaptor does not start to sync until TW has started completely, so plugins will not work in any way. Other good reason is that one configuration that is good for one device, is not good for another device. For example on my mobile phone I have animation set to 0 for performance reasons and a mobile theme installed. On my computer, on the other hand I have power enough to have full animations, dozens of plugins (TiddlyMap for example) and things that does not make any sense on mobile like the keyboard shortcuts plugin. It's the same with any program if you think about it. Yo don't have the fonts you use with office in your dropbox folder, neither the installation folder of your excel application.

 

Do I understand it right that the default save button will be pretty much obsolete when you're using TiddlyPouch, i.e that things sync automatically when they can?

Tiddlypouch saves immediately locally. You can use it totally offline if you want. Then, if you have sync activated it syncs automatically when it can, yes

 

Which saving methods would show in this eventual dropdown and how often would they be used, respectively?

I want to provide:

• Normal tiddlywiki save (not recommended). This will include all the loaded tiddlers in the save operation
• Save config
• Database snapshot
• Save as a normal wiki, without the plugin and with all the tiddlers. Useful if you get tired of tiddlypouch

The second one should be used each time you make a change that is not synchronized to the server or you want to stick that change to the html file you are using. For example installing a new plugin, changing a configuration like wiki name, type of view (zooming) or any other config that is not saved on local db. How often each method is used depends on the end user.

 

(You mention Evernote - did they face the same issue? If yes, how did they solve it?)

They are a big company, and a team of programmers, and they totally own their application. I am just a single guy writing a plugin for an already existing tool. I just mentioned Evernote because the objective of TiddlyPouch is to turn TW into some kind of offline/online notebook like Evernote is.

 

 

BTW, I haven't sat down with tiddlypouch just yet. Still my intention to do it though.

It is impossible!! It is not released at any place. Unless you have access to my dropbox and you have grabbed an early version ;) Please do not mix this with couch adaptor. They are similar but different things.

 

<:-)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El miércoles, 10 de junio de 2015, 8:46:28 (UTC+2), Sylvain Naudin escribió:

Hi,
Yes, maybe too intrusive.
When I read sync/save, I think a sort of lightning icon, with color system (like save botton). I think I would hide standard save button if I use Tiddlypouch.

A flag with sync state will be available, and it will be similar to the system ones. But this  is only when you are syncing. TiddlyPouch allows you to work offline. But for persistent config changes, as I said, like connection parameters, wiki name and plugins installations you need to use a special kind of save. And since there is a button already for save I wanted to use the same button, to not confuse the end user.

[Matabele]

Hi Danielo

Perhaps, the configuration page (in control panel) for your TiddlyPouch plugin should have a tab to configure the save button -- either the user chooses a particular function for the save button, or the user can choose a dropdown or the save button.

Best of both worlds!

regards

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hello Mat.

I really like your suggestion. Even taking in account that it makes me work more! Instead of overriding the core button I will provide a clone with my extra functionality and hide the default one based on used selection. So if you select to have the drop down you will see just one button, identical to the core one, but with different functionality. Thanks

[Felix Küppers]

Hi Danielo,

I agree with Sylvain here. Better to make a second save button, maybe make it look a bit different (different color; really nice would be different svg). The user can hide the other one! The advantage is that it can also be saved in the classic way (when having the two buttons displayed). Also it keeps things simple.

-Felix

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[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hello Felix,

From my point of view the classic saver makes no sense with my plugin installed. The classic saver method will download all the loaded tiddlers with the plugin installed, not very nice IMO. Instead you probably prefer to download all the Tiddlers (loaded already or not from the db) without the plugin installed. That is only possible through my special savers.

If I just add another button you will end with three extra icons on the sidebar: the save one, my saver button and, if you are syncing the flag of sync status. I could try to integrate the save button with the sync flag, but it would be extremely complex and confusing. Specially because the sync flag is only present if you have sync activated.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Danielo

From my point of view the classic saver makes no sense with my plugin installed. The classic saver method will download all the loaded tiddlers with the plugin installed, not very nice IMO. Instead you probably prefer to download all the Tiddlers (loaded already or not from the db) without the plugin installed. That is only possible through my special savers.

There is another possibility.

The standard save wiki button $:/core/ui/Buttons/save-wiki uses a configurable template stored in $:/config/SaveWikiButton/Template. The default value is $:/core/save/all, but the tiddlywebadaptor plugin overrides it to "$:/plugins/tiddlywiki/tiddlyweb/save/offline". Your plugin could override that tiddler at startup (you'd probably be better off doing it via code rather than just relying on including a shadow tiddler).

Best wishes

Jeremy

 

If I just add another button you will end with three extra icons on the sidebar: the save one, my saver button and, if you are syncing the flag of sync status. I could try to integrate the save button with the sync flag, but it would be extremely complex and confusing. Specially because the sync flag is only present if you have sync activated.

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