Tiddlywiki on android

[TonyM]

Hi folks,

I have spent some time trying to get to save tw5 on my android phone and are coming across a few limitations. I believe I am using version 53 of Firefox and despite doing as documented I observe the following.
Tiddlywiki add-on seems greyed out and unable to be enabled
Save link menus plugin is installed but I can't long press it as the android cut copy paste menu comes up
I can find the equivalent of the desktop toolbars to access the tiddlywiki globe icon or any other toolbar item.
Opening an empty tiddlywiki the first time in downloads or a custom folder does not prompt for saving perhaps because the add on is not active.
I can edit and save a tiddlywiki with the wiki saved message but it is not saved on reload and I sometimes find it was downloaded.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Background. I have taken the time to make the conceptual leap as an advanced tiddlywiki classic user to learn about tw5 and have a number of projects in train that will benefit from seemless use on my smartphone. I am prepared to give back to the community and will contribute as much as I can, I have not being as active lately as in the classical period because the tw5 move was not so strait forward including now with Firefox on android.

Some of my projects include;
Personal health activities log
Folder based micro-sites on desktops
Device based micro-sites synchronised via cloud services
Website enabling any object by sticking a low cost USB stick to it and using an OTG cable from my smart phone to access it OR connecting a device that makes the USB stick available via wifi.
Giving my car a wifi network and website including the manuals.

Thanks in advance.

[Xavier Cazin]

Hello Tony,

​From what you are planning to do, I assume you have some knowledge of the server side of things. Did you try the Termux route on your Android device? http://tiddlywiki.com/#Serving%20TW5%20from%20Android. It is also possible to serve the Single HTML File version of TW, also it requires a modified version of BidiX's store.php.

​

​

​The first advantage of serving TW5 from your phone is that​ you don't have to worry about saving issue anymore (although you still have to worry about backups :-) The next advantage is that you can access this wiki from your computer provided that it is on the same local network.

Cheers,

Xavier.

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[Ton Gerner]

Hi Tony,

I get the impression you use the new TiddlyFox add-on.

According to https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywikidev/VqvGlnrfLjE/aGGy4tc-EgAJ

Users of TiddlyFox on Firefox for Android will not be able to use the new version, but the old version will continue to work for them.

Cheers,

Ton

[TonyM]

Thanks Xavier I will look into the more comprehsencive hosting solution in time. It will allow by desktop browser to visit my device "website". Great stuff.

Hello Tony,

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[TonyM]

Thanks Ton, I have installed the N - 1 version and it works.

Version 1.0alpha18.1-signed.1-signed may work for people reading this message from android firefox

The Android addons do not include tiddlyfox, and tiddlywiki.com only goes to the desktop version so I had to  manualy browse to https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/tiddlyfox/versions/
and run my finger down the right hand side to make the version "Add to Firefox" button to appears, to click.

Thanks all
Tony

[TonyM]

IF this worked, it dd not for long.

[TonyM]

Xavier,

TiddlyFox never did as the instructions suggested, I have tried installing it on my PHP host with store.php not saving, now I have reverted to the Termux. Yet even this is not saving changes at local host.

I am really fedup with this, All I want to do is access a my own tiddlywiki on my phone and save changes.

In relation to the Termux install I followed the instructions but get this;



However I can see but not save the tiddlywiki at 127.0.0..1:8080

I would expect this may stop me accessing this tiddlywiki over the network as well.

Any guidance would be helpful

Regards
Tony

On Sunday, 11 June 2017 15:51:10 UTC+10, Xavier wrote:

Hello Tony,

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[Xavier Cazin]

Hi TonyM,

You were very close. You just need to start the server on the directory you initialized instead of the default current directory. So, instead of "tiddlywiki --server", you should enter "tiddlywiki lgv20 --server"

Cheers,

-- Xavier Cazin

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[TonyM]

Thanks Xavier,

We sometimes make simple mistakes just at the time we are frustrated. I have local access on the phone now and it is saving, thank you. To facilitate building my desired phone based tiddlywiki I now need to access it from my laptop on the same network. simply using the IP address of the phone and port eg 192.168.1.2:8080  isa not working so my research continues.

Regards
Tony

-- Xavier Cazin

[Mark S.]

You have to give it the host number (well, maybe 0.0.0.0 works also). Like:

tiddlywiki mydir --server 8080 $:/core/save/all text/plain text/html "" "" 192.168.0.245

See "ServerCommand" at tiddlywiki.com


Good luck,
Mark

[TonyM]

Yes, I found that reference "server command"

Its working now - Phone from laptop. Laptop from phone. I will need to work out how to automate the tiddley server line inside termux so If I restart my phone it will be easy but it is working very well. I have rebuilt my health monitor log from my laptop browser and will start loging from my mobile, cool.

thanks for your help

Regards
Tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Xavier & TonyM

A few naive questions ...

1 - Is this the only effective way to save TWs on Android now?

2 - Is there a FAQ somewhere on how to do this?

If there were I'd like post to a link to it on Twitter.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Xavier Cazin]

Hi Josiah, TonyM,

1. Another option is to use Tiddlywiki the Tiddlyspot way, one one single HTML file, which involves PHP running on a variant of BidiX's store.php.
2. One day, I'll make a tutorial on both methods, that I'll make sure to post here

Note for Tony: now that you can access your wiki from your local network, you'll probably want to address security issues, thus use an http server like nginx or apache as a proxy to tiddlywiki. The additional benefits of using an http server are that 1) it can also serve the single file version, 2) it can serve media files, to be used with the _canonical_uri trick.

Cheers,

Xavier.

-- Xavier Cazin

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:01 AM, @TiddlyTweeter <tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

Ciao Xavier & TonyM

A few naive questions ...

1 - Is the this the only effective way to save TWs on Android now?

2 - Is there a FAQ somewhere on how to do this?

If there were I'd like post to a link to it on Twitter.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[Mark S.]

It's not effective at all for Android 4.1 and before. Termux only runs on Lollipop and above. There's another linux terminal that will run, but it's only a command-line interface without the ability to install servers.

Methods I knowof for saving on Android < 4.1 -

1) Keep your old FF
2) Connect via a server running someplace (tiddlyspot, your own nodejs, etc)
3) Antidwiki (only 1 TW at a time)
4) Palemoon
5) nodejs on termux (if you have Android 4.2+)
6) The default save mechanism

About the default save mechanism. Android FF won't let you change your download location for each save. There's a app out there that might be able to run in the background and relocate files for you, but I haven't looked into that. There might be download managers that could help, but I don't know if the FF TW5 save mechanism will trigger them or not.
 
Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S. & others

When I read stuff like this I get mild eebeegeebies. Its pretty damn complex coping with something so basic? To save a file, but only under specific conditions & requiring pretty obscure interventions?

I wonder what the real solution is? Especially now as even desktop browsers give up the ghost on direct file saving?

Something is OFF, that if it were ON, I think TW would look a lot more inviting.

My 2 cents.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Lost Admin]

I hate to say this, but I think the "real solution" is go give-in to the current trend of pushing eveything to a "web application" and run it from a server in "the cloud". That could be something like the way NoteSelf uses Nodeant or TiddlySpot uses store.php. Personally I think this takes away from the advantages of TiddlyWiki (one file you can copy anywhere and open in any browser).

Nodeant is a CouchDB SaaA; so you can run your own CouchDB instead (I've been doing that successfully for about a week now).

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Lost Admin

I do think the PouchDB / CouchDB approach is interesting. MOST INTERESTING about it is its seeming universality across most platforms as far as I can see. Because its saving to database its fragmenting the one-file model. And the one-file model is central to TW. And I hope it stays so. So long as one can EXPORT a one file from a Pouched TW it will instantiate its origins. Can it do that?

Josiah

[Lost Admin]

Hmm, I haven't tried yet. Let me find out ...

The answer is both yes and no.

Yes, it appears all of my modifications were saved when I used the traditional TiddlyWiki save button (to trigger download) and looked into the file directly (text editor).

But when I then tried to load the saved file into a browser I got a RSOE (tried both IE 11 and Chrome on Windows). So, in the sense of having something that just works, it failed.

If I had the time and skill, I might try to look deeper into NoteSelf with the goal of making a CouchDB saver plugin.

There also appears to be a bug in that NoteSelf either blocks or prevents the encryption built into TiddlyWiki from working.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Lost Admin

Does it export JSON? I mean is its JSON export of all CONTENT YOU CREATED importable into a vanilla TW? That would be a minimalist test on portability.

The rest may be messing it up as some of its code is likely for the gubbins and not compatible with stand alone?

Best wishes
Josiah

[Lost Admin]

yes. going to NoteSelf, choosing "export all" from the tools menu (saves a file called tiddlers.json to my downloads folder) and then loading the json file into a blank empty.html worked exactly as expected. But this did not export/import the plugins I've added to noteself. So, from my perspective, this is still only a partial success. 

But at least it does provide a migration path away from (or to) Noteself.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Lost Admin

That is good to know. Recovery is possible. One of the issues is what happens if your local DB in the browser gets corrupted.

I'm very interested in NoteSelf's resilience.

Part of that will come from local JSON exports as you just did. And part of it from HOW to renegotiate connection to a remote DB after a crash and what state the remote DB will be in.

Earlier critiques of NoteSelf were that you can get locked-in to browser storage and unable to migrate. I do NOT think that is the case. But regular JSON dumps are, I think, a good idea.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Lost Admin]

Hi Josiah,

I was wondering that myself. Which is why I went to the trouble of setting up my own back-end (VM on my desktop).

If you wipe your browser cache and offline data, when you go to the Noteself website you get prompted to create a new noteself (as if you didn't have one at all). If you put in the setup-data (name of your notself wiki,  couchdb server, login), it will re-get the data from the couchdb server and your browser cache and offline-data is re-loaded.

I haven't tried to create conflicts or corruption to see how it deals with that. This is a technical limitation for me. I only have IE11 and Chrome available on the system I'm testing on (the back-end isn't network accessible in my set-up) and Noteself produces a RSOE when I try to load it.

However, couchdb (the server) and pouchdb (what manages the local browser database aka offline data) have built-in conflict resolution algorithms. I have no clue how good they are.

We might need to spin this off into a different thread.

[edited to add the below:]

Also it is worth observing that noteself (I think it is inherent in couchdb) keeps a change history of each tiddler in such a way that you can go back to previous versions on a per-tiddler basis if they still exist on the server.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I really do think that decent discussion by folk who have played with it and also taken parts of it in new directions, as well as critique of NoteSelf's ambit, deserves very serious attention.

My 2 cents.

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

FWIW, Danielo replied privately to me: "NoteSelf works perfectly fine on android..."

[Danielo Rodríguez]

El lunes, 10 de julio de 2017, 20:00:27 (UTC+2), @TiddlyTweeter escribió:

FWIW, Danielo replied privately to me: "NoteSelf works perfectly fine on android..."

Hello,

I was here just to say this. I didn't wanted to say it when this thread started, but I think NoteSelf may help with the problems exposed here. It will work out of the box with most android devices, although I have only tested it with chrome it should work fine on every modern web browser. There is also an Android app that has some advantages and will no suffer from the problems associated with erasing offline data on the browser.

About the export functionality: I worked hard to make sure that both tiddlers and the entire wiki are properly exported any time you want. It have worked for me fine without problems on the past, so the RSOD error are bad news for me. Dear Lost admin, If you can show me what exact errors appear I'll take a look.

In any case, exporting functionalities are top on the list of functionalities.

Also it is worth observing that noteself (I think it is inherent in couchdb)

The revisions are inherent to couchdb, but the UI is not! 

If I had the time and skill, I might try to look deeper into NoteSelf with the goal of making a CouchDB saver plugin.

There is already a CouchDB saver plugin, solely focused on CouchDB: https://github.com/wshallum/couchadaptor

If that does not fit your needs, what are you missing from TiddlyPouch ? it is exactly a CouchDB saver plugin. 

[Lost Admin]

On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 2:27:15 AM UTC-4, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:

El lunes, 10 de julio de 2017, 20:00:27 (UTC+2), @TiddlyTweeter escribió:

FWIW, Danielo replied privately to me: "NoteSelf works perfectly fine on android..."

Hello,

I was here just to say this. I didn't wanted to say it when this thread started, but I think NoteSelf may help with the problems exposed here. It will work out of the box with most android devices, although I have only tested it with chrome it should work fine on every modern web browser. There is also an Android app that has some advantages and will no suffer from the problems associated with erasing offline data on the browser.

About the export functionality: I worked hard to make sure that both tiddlers and the entire wiki are properly exported any time you want. It have worked for me fine without problems on the past, so the RSOD error are bad news for me. Dear Lost admin, If you can show me what exact errors appear I'll take a look.

In any case, exporting functionalities are top on the list of functionalities.

I'm not sure this is what you want, but here is how I exported:

From a working Noteself implementation, I clicked the checkmark in a cirlce icon to initiate the standard tiddlywiki browser save action.

 This worked exactly as expected, the browser downloaded a file called noteself.html.

I then tried to open said file in the browser and I got the RSOE:

And the output from Chrome's javascript console:

Also it is worth observing that noteself (I think it is inherent in couchdb)

The revisions are inherent to couchdb, but the UI is not! 

If I had the time and skill, I might try to look deeper into NoteSelf with the goal of making a CouchDB saver plugin.

There is already a CouchDB saver plugin, solely focused on CouchDB: https://github.com/wshallum/couchadaptor

If that does not fit your needs, what are you missing from TiddlyPouch ? it is exactly a CouchDB saver plugin. 

You pointed me at your plugin in another thread. So, I'm considering the "make a couchdb saver plugin" part done. I'm moving on to documenting Noteself in more detail. Although, if I had the skill, I would modify it so that the Noteself sync icon replaced the tiddlywiki save (checkmark in a circle) icon when it is configured to save to a couchdb.