List of changes proposed for documentation

[Riz]

Sorry about the other post. It seems google groups is messing with me today.

So, I made some changes to documentation changes and pushed them already. Some others, I felt like I would need to consult the community.

Few things are very much in need of updates.

Major Points

1. Despite tiddlyfox disappearing entirely from Firefox addon store, it is still documented as one of the main saving mechanisms for Tiddlywiki.

https://tiddlywiki.com/#GettingStarted%20-%20Firefox
https://tiddlywiki.com/#GettingStarted%20-%20Android

Other saving methods are definitely documented. However the space and prominence given to TiddlyFox gives a false idea that it is somehow still relevant.

Please note: I have edited and pushed changes regarding Termux and replaced AndTidwiki with Tiddloid. I felt like TiddlyFox warrants more discussion and approval owing to its community nature.

2. What is the actual point of "Getting started" tiddlers? All but the main getting started tiddlers are way outdated and provides false information. I already pointed out the "Getting started Firefox" and "Getting started Android" issues. Now look at "Getting started - Chrome"

https://tiddlywiki.com/#GettingStarted%20-%20Chrome

The first sentence says only HTML fallback mechanism works in Chrome. This is false info and other saver mechanisms are documented in TW5 itself.

The only "Getting started" Tiddler that makes a reasonable sense is "Getting started Node JS". Delete the rest so that there is one source of truth to maintain.

3. There should be a feature comparison table between the multitude of saving options available. Throwing tons of options at a user will work better if the user knows what is the difference between them.


4. Most of the examples of filters in TW5 uses "sort". sortan is more advanced and natural with respect to non-technical users. However it is hard to find because user have to specifically search for it. So much so that even experienced TW5 users forgot about its existence. I suggest we change all filter examples from sort to sortan.

Need for reorganisation

5. I know "Getting started" is one of the default tiddlers. However in the TOC organization, it appears in "Working with Tiddlywiki". For a newbie who accidentally closed the Getting started tiddler, one of the first places he will look in will be Table of contents. I say we retag the "Getting started" with HelloThere and push it to the top.

6. Is there a definite criteria for matters to be tagged. This is my understanding from the main site

- HelloThere introduces and explains the philosophical aspects of tiddlywiki
- "Working with Tiddlywiki" explains basic tasks.
- "Learning" explains more advanced tasks
- Customisation should ideally involve things you can do regarding styles, things you can achieve with CSS, color palettes.

Points below is based on this understanding.

7. "Working with Tiddlywiki" should come before "Learning"? Because it is much more basic.


8. "Philosophy of tiddlers" should be under "HelloThere" with all other explanations - not under learning

9. https://tiddlywiki.com/#TaskManagementExampleDraggableTemplate does not require "Learning" tag

10. Suggested title changes
  "How to hide the author's and other fields with CSS" to "How to hide author/date/other parts of viewtemplate with CSS"
  "Simple ways to write protect tiddlers" to "How to write protect tiddlers"

11. Export tiddlers, Adopt a title policy - these two should be under "Working with Tiddlywiki" because these are basic things and one of the first things people might look for.

12. "How to Customize TiddlyDesktop" should be under Customisation
   
13. https://tiddlywiki.com/#Scalability is a claim. There should be links to specific instances of such Wikis IMO.

14. There is a need for rearranging Learning and Working with Tiddlywiki. Things like "Task Management example" and is variations should be together and they should also link to community resources that implemented complex task management systems.

[TonyM]

Riz,

Lots of good and important ideas. You possibly know this but if you edit tiddlers in tiddlywiki.com you will get a link to the GitHub version. It is possible there to submit document changes. Perhaps you could submit some of the less controversial changes, and await some feed back on the more involved changes?

I would like to add more examples to the documentation and fill a few gaps, the only complexity is there a pile of macros on tiddlywiki.com to support easy coding of the documentation, each time I edit I need to work these "standards" out again. There seems to be no documentation guidelines, tips and documentation macro references.

Personally I contribute a lot, to changes in tiddlywiki core but only through discussion and issues, or tiddlywiki.com documentation changes. I have not quite worked out how to submit changes to the core because I need to fork the repository, I am still not sure if I have to fork again after my last was a long time ago. Unfortunately it appears you are only recognised in a tiddlywiki release if you made code changes through github, not that I need this, just it would be nice.

I currently have a change to propose which needs changes in most button tiddlers, I have no idea if there is an easier way than changing all tiddlers, individually in Github. I understand there is a plugin first approach, but I also have a few changes I would like to see and they over lap a little, so not sure how to proceed.

Regards

Tony

[Riz]

Hi Tony,

I already pushed some changes. Usually my workflow involves forking, cloning to my computer, make necessary changes in the tw5-com edition, pushing it and creating a pull request against tiddlywiki branch. I like to type in my text editor. But that is just preference. You can always edit documentation in GitHub. Just remember not to make pull request against master branch.

Try pushing your changes. Jeremy and PMario is usually very prompt in discussing changes and making suggestions they think is necessary.

Sincerely
Riz

[Mat]

This meta discussion is perhaps better suited in the dev group? Anyway:

Your points make full sense.

 

4. Most of the examples of filters in TW5 uses "sort". sortan is more advanced and natural with respect to non-technical users. However it is hard to find because user have to specifically search for it. So much so that even experienced TW5 users forgot about its existence. I suggest we change all filter examples from sort to sortan.

Instead, I'd suggest "See also" sections.

<:-)

[Riz]

@Mat. Cool.

Should I post it to Dev group? I fear if I post it one more time, Google groups would consider it spam

[Mat]

Should I post it to Dev group? I fear if I post it one more time, Google groups would consider it spam

LOL! IMO you should post it there because it is not a "user issue" and it'll just drown here. - OR, because they're mostly actionable issues, you could post as a kind of meta list on gh (I've seen Mario do this, and I think Jeremy too) if you intend to curate it as things are solved.. otherwise it'll just drown there too. 

<:-)

[Riz]

Fair point.

My initial idea was to make PRs if there are no objections. But your argument makes more sense. Will do as you said.

[Mark S.]

There is also a documentation group.

[Rizwan Ishak]

I know. Is there much activity there. I am up for reviving it if you are.

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[Michael Durland]

On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 2:47:57 PM UTC-7, Riz wrote:

The only "Getting started" Tiddler that makes a reasonable sense is "Getting started Node JS". Delete the rest so that there is one source of truth to maintain.

I hope you don't mean deleting all the other Save method tiddlers from the GettingStarted page? Yes, some are obsolete/unsupported at this time, but many are still working/active, and users need to know the options. The Node server is certainly not the only "one source of truth" for saving options. Perhaps focus on removing only the truly dead ones, rather than "Delete the rest."

On a related note, it would be interesting to see a poll with results as to what Save methods are ranked as the most popular. I'm currently using TiddlyDrive, as it has been the easiest to setup for me so far to support sharing/syncing my wiki across two Windows 10 computers and my Android phone. I don't see how the locally-run Node server could handle that use case?

Michael

[Rizwan Ishak]

Oh no, I didn't mean deleting all other save methods. Getting Started tiddlers and save method tiddlers are separate. 

In the main Getting Started tiddler all the save methods are listed. Now if you go to tiddlywiki.com and search the words "Getting Started", you can see that there are multiple other "Getting Started" tiddlers. Those tiddlers contain information that is badly outdated.

My suggestion is to keep 2 tiddlers : Main Getting Started tiddler - which lists all save methods. Then Getting Started - Node tiddler, which explains how to get up and running with Node.js

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[Rizwan Ishak]

I thought of suggesting a poll. Then I felt a poll would be adversarial and need not accurately reflect the usefulness of the method to a particular user, whether or not it meets his demands and needs etc. So a feature table might help. If needed, we can include the GitHub stars info - although it is in no way any measure of popularity because 

a. Many users of this community might not have a GitHub account

b. Even those who have GitHub account use stars as a way of bookmarking. 

[Mark S.]

Actually I think this is the best place if you want community input.

On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 6:31:25 AM UTC-7, Riz wrote:

I know. Is there much activity there. I am up for reviving it if you are.

On Sat, 2 May 2020, 18:58 'Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki, <tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

There is also a documentation group.

On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 5:16:33 AM UTC-7, Mat wrote:

This meta discussion is perhaps better suited in the dev group? Anyway:

Your points make full sense.

 

4. Most of the examples of filters in TW5 uses "sort". sortan is more advanced and natural with respect to non-technical users. However it is hard to find because user have to specifically search for it. So much so that even experienced TW5 users forgot about its existence. I suggest we change all filter examples from sort to sortan.

Instead, I'd suggest "See also" sections.

<:-)

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[Riz]

Hi Mark,

I think Mat was talking about how normal users might not be interested in this post as long as it is not directly relevant to them.

Nevertheless, I had the same idea as yours. Hence the posting in this group.

Do you have any objections/suggestions towards the points I made?

[Mark S.]

1. Despite tiddlyfox disappearing entirely from Firefox addon store, it is still documented as one of the main saving mechanisms for Tiddlywiki.

Yes. In particular this line

Firefox provides the best user experience for using TiddlyWiki with the TiddlyFox browser extension.

 Needs changing to some thing like

Firefox  with the TiddlyFox browser extension used to be the preferred method of accessing single file TiddlyWikis. Ever since FF57 this method has been deprecated. But it can still be used in conjunction with older versions of FireFox as outlined in the following:

Hmm. Where can people get TiddlyFox? Does anyone know the github home?

2. What is the actual point of "Getting started" tiddlers? All but the main getting started tiddlers are way outdated and provides false information. I already pointed out the "Getting started Firefox" and "Getting started Android" issues. Now look at "Getting started - Chrome"

https://tiddlywiki.com/#GettingStarted%20-%20Chrome

The first sentence says only HTML fallback mechanism works in Chrome. This is false info and other saver mechanisms are documented in TW5 itself.

You're right. "Getting Started" with Firefox and with Chrome are irrelevant. What matters is that the saving technique you pick will work with the browser you use. So it's the information associated with saving mechanisms that matter.

You can click on the blue buttons and filter the saving techniques. However, there's no note to that effect. So most newcomers aren't going to even know that they can do that.

My feeling is that ONLY the default mechanism should be presented. Short simple directions, with the last part being something like:

Some people find this approach inconvenient. There are other solutions that may work for you better, depending on your platform and browser preferences:

1. For Mac: TiddlyDesktop, Timimi, file-backups ...

2. For Windows TiddlyDesktop, Timimi, filebackups ...

3. For Linux: TiddlyDesktop, Timimi ...

4. For Android: Tiddloid, Node with Termux...

5. For Iphone/Ipad: Quine ....

4. Most of the examples of filters in TW5 uses "sort". sortan is more advanced and natural with respect to non-technical users. However it is hard to find because user have to specifically search for it. So much so that even experienced TW5 users forgot about its existence. I suggest we change all filter examples from sort to sortan.

Might take awhile to hunt them all down. And the examples would need to be tested to make sure they still work. Obviously, you wouldn't change the example for the "sort" filter.

 

Need for reorganisation

5. I know "Getting started" is one of the default tiddlers. However in the TOC organization, it appears in "Working with Tiddlywiki". For a newbie who accidentally closed the Getting started tiddler, one of the first places he will look in will be Table of contents. I say we retag the "Getting started" with HelloThere and push it to the top.

Sounds OK.

 

6. Is there a definite criteria for matters to be tagged. This is my understanding from the main site

- HelloThere introduces and explains the philosophical aspects of tiddlywiki
- "Working with Tiddlywiki" explains basic tasks.
- "Learning" explains more advanced tasks
- Customisation should ideally involve things you can do regarding styles, things you can achieve with CSS, color palettes.

 

Are there specific examples where the pattern is broken?

 

Points below is based on this understanding.

7. "Working with Tiddlywiki" should come before "Learning"? Because it is much more basic.

8. "Philosophy of tiddlers" should be under "HelloThere" with all other explanations - not under learning

9. https://tiddlywiki.com/#TaskManagementExampleDraggableTemplate does not require "Learning" tag

This sounds reasonable. I don't think it will change the user's experience much, but no harm.

 

10. Suggested title changes
  "How to hide the author's and other fields with CSS" to "How to hide author/date/other parts of viewtemplate with CSS"
  "Simple ways to write protect tiddlers" to "How to write protect tiddlers"

Maybe "write-protect" .

11. Export tiddlers, Adopt a title policy - these two should be under "Working with Tiddlywiki" because these are basic things and one of the first things people might look for.

12. "How to Customize TiddlyDesktop" should be under Customisation

 

   
13. https://tiddlywiki.com/#Scalability is a claim. There should be links to specific instances of such Wikis IMO.

The question is, are there any public examples? I do have my 60,000 obscure language dictionary.

 

14. There is a need for rearranging Learning and Working with Tiddlywiki. Things like "Task Management example" and is variations should be together and they should also link to community resources that implemented complex task management systems.

Not sure what all this would apply to exactly. Sounds like it might be quite a project.

I imagine that a lot of the community resources are out of date. It's unclear to me how much they get used. These days I tend to use TiddlyTool Map because it has everything in community resources plus is kept up to date thanks to David and crew.

I feel that there is a lot of good documentation on TW. But I've noticed that some people seem to use Google first before coming to TW. Sometimes Google leads them back to a static page on TiddlyWiki.com. Unfortunately, this is a bit like trying to read the encylopedia brittanica through a keyhole.

Overall what you're suggesting looks good. I've mentioned before that I think the best approach is for someone to submit documentation changes, have it quickly applied, and if someone else disagrees they can do their own PR. Otherwise you end up with "death by committee".

Thanks!

 

[Riz]

Yeah, another point is that. The getting started tiddler needs a UI change. It should depend on something more familiar to new users like radio buttons or tabs

Might take awhile to hunt them all down.

The list operator, ActionWidgets and a couple of TableOfContent macros will do the trick.

Maybe "write-protect" .

Fair enough.

The question is, are there any public examples? I do have my 60,000 obscure language dictionary.

 

 If there is not, a new one can always be created, right? Might help user to gauge the capability of tiddlywiki to meet his needs. If yours is not too personal and is ready to publish publicly, user might even get a useful wiki out of that.

But I've noticed that some people seem to use Google first before coming to TW. Sometimes Google leads them back to a static page on TiddlyWiki.com. Unfortunately, this is a bit like trying to read the encylopedia brittanica through a keyhole.

This is a very important point. The header that says "This is a static representation of ...." should be more prominent or made to link below the static tiddler saying "For more info, please see: tiddlywiki.com#sort. People usually do not use the search box within webpages, but google. Tiddlywiki needs to expect that. Using tiddlywiki search is an acquired behaviour.

I've mentioned before that I think the best approach is for someone to submit documentation changes, have it quickly applied, and if someone else disagrees they can do their own PR.

I felt like - any changes to tiddlyfox tiddlers might be controversial. GIven that I authored one of the tiddlyfox alternatives, I have a conflict-of-interest. Hence asking the community first. WIll definitely make PRs

Sincerely

Riz

[PMario]

On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 8:39:26 PM UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:

 

Some people find this approach inconvenient. There are other solutions that may work for you better, depending on your platform and browser preferences:

1. For Mac: TiddlyDesktop, Timimi, file-backups ...

2. For Windows TiddlyDesktop, Timimi, filebackups ...

3. For Linux: TiddlyDesktop, Timimi ...

4. For Android: Tiddloid, Node with Termux...

5. For Iphone/Ipad: Quine ....

File Backups works for FireFox since V57 for: Windows, Mac, Linux and also FF for Android. 

If you set your Downloads directory to a dedicated TW drive eg: E:/ you can use every subdirectory on E to save and backup your files.

If you use the browser default setting, it will be your Downloads directory or a sub-directory within it.

have fun!

mario

[tony]

Thank you Riz for your work on improving things and particularly not deleting other save methods.

I still use Waterfox, a fork of Firefox and other legacy browsers, like w3m (no save method there) :-)

So retaining legacy documentation like Saving with the HTML5 fallback saver which will survive most developer saving methods is crucial, IMHO

The wide variety of saving in TiddlyWiki gives old computers new life :-) and affords cross platform support in modern ones like your Timimi or pmario's file-backups

TiddlyWiki for all!

[Mark S.]

This wasn't meant to be a complete listing. Just to show the general idea. Thus the ellipses ...

[TonyM]

To all,

Does anyone really use tiddlyfox in a backdated version of the browser rather than use the new superior Timimi ?

The minimum reference to the apocalypse, which we recovered from, we are "post apocalypse", would be wise, I am always needing to tell people about Timimi because "tiddlyfox" misleads.

Regards

Tony

[Birthe C]

TonyM,

We have often been told, that people using Waterfox, Palemoon and other browsers, did use tiddlyfox. It would be good, if we knew exactly what other browsers to make examples in a possible rewrite.

Others are using older computers, minimal linux'es and have to find some usable browser for their system. Some are running totally of a USB stick.

Birthe

[TonyM]

Birthe,

That may be true, good point. They should be documented well, but a lot of people use tiddlyfox to refer to the FireFox browser plugin (which is not longer) one stable releases so we should stop saying it and qualify ourselves if we must say it.

To make it more complex I believe there is a reference to tiddlyfox on some of the "modern solutions" code base.

I have seen discussions where someone cant make it work, or still critisises TiddlyWiki because of the apocolypse when it is simply not true.

I am just asking for clarity.

Regards

Tony

[Mohammad]

I absolutely support your idea Riz!

[Rizwan Ishak]

Thank you Mohammad. If you have any objections to the points raised or other suggestions, please let me know.

Sincerely,

Riz

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[Mohammad]

Riz,

 I don't want to go in details! but one of barrier for newbies using TW is the documentation! Sometimes I say, to learn something you need a tutorial, instruction, teacher, ... to take you from step A to step B!

 Tiddlywiki is nonlinear so, in its wild nature it may not be a good choice for documentation! Except if you force it to behave linear! Like by adding a theme, a plugin, a script, ... etc

 For example in Sistan, when you start from http://sistan.tiddlyspot.com/#Button%20to%20Create%20New%20Task (the first page) you have a next button to find the next page and gradually go to the last page..

Another point is: the documentation is a mixed of TW 5 up to TW 5.1.22 For doing something  you find several solutions and you do not know which method is better or even which operator, filter, widget command you should use! Sometime I think I should prepare a tutorial, wiki, ... called TW a carefully crafted subset of the most recent version of Tiddlywiki.

Example: I see a lot of code in TW say <$list filter="[<some-var>prefix[yes]]" for a long time I did not understand that and then realized it means the variable value is yes. I come from a numerical method/programming world! so this was very confusing for me! later on match operator was born, and I talked to Jeremy to change it to <$list filter="[<some-var>match[yes]]" 

I myself appreciate all the hard work by Jeremy and I know he is very busy, yet put alot of time here free of charge, so I never expect him to go through these and correct documentation. I think Mario well described the situation, he said Tiddlywiki has an organic growth and so, you see all these things.

I may propose we need a movement to start correcting and revising document and put the latest subset on tiddlywiki.com for public and then all old out of use or obsolete/deprecated mark and have a link / note to the new subset!

--Mohammad

On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 7:39:56 PM UTC+4:30, Riz wrote:

Thank you Mohammad. If you have any objections to the points raised or other suggestions, please let me know.

Sincerely,

Riz

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[Riz]

These are valid points Mohammad.

As you know, I was away from being active in the community in between. Life happens. However before I left, there was a move to shift tiddlywiki github Repo to an organizational Repo with roles assigned to volunteers - so that burden on Jeremy will be less. I don't know why it has not bore fruit after this much time. @PMario - care to chime in?

Also about newbies  - here is what I have in mind about an ideal solution. As you said - it should be a wizard. A wizard that is a plugin, so that newbies could uninstall/delete the intro wizard once they are comfortable. It should sit at the top, like the menu-bar currently in tiddlywiki.com and give instructions. It should also highlight the button the newbie has to press - changing the color of that particular button svg for the step or something. Ideally there should not be a next button at all in the wizard. Instead, wizard should listen to events at the concerned button of current step and show the next instruction automatically.

Yes, we need to start collecting and documenting. A good resource is your Wikis itself. If you would like to contribute to core documentation, I can help whatever ways I can. Also - in my opinion, you should try making pull requests for parts of your Shiraz plugin to the core. I know there is a radical redesign undertaking happening. But it never hurts to make small changes in the meantime.

[Alfonso Arciniega]

Hi Tony,

Actually, I do use "TiddlyWiki for Firefox 2.0.2-prerelease" on "Waterfox Classic 2020.03.01" for dedicated TiddlyWiki matters, especially TW5.

I even use the old "Firefox 3.6.36" (no extension required) due to TWC compatibility to old plugins (I have a couple of TWC's that cannot be upgraded to TW5 though I use them on a daily basis).

I also use Timimi on both Firefox and Chrome.

However I have to stick with Waterfox Classic (WFC) for a couple of reasons:

1) I cannot install any program at all in my office computer due to security issues; we do not have administrative rights.
2) I want to keep all my TW related bookmarks in one browser (over one hundred).

Therefore, I use a regular WFC at home and a WFC portable running from an USB at the office. Probably not the most elegant solution though problem solved.

Having explained the above, IMHO we should recommend, especially to the new people looking into TW, one or two saving options only. Having too many options to choose is not beneficial to the newcomer ("what, do you want me to try all these options? Do I have the time?"). The option described above should be an exception to the rule for people working in office environments with no administrative rights.

Regards,

Alfonso

[Mat]

Apropos a wizard and guidance with savers, I made http://setup.tiddlyspot.com/

I still think it's a great idea but I had to face that I just wasn't qualified to manage it. I personally use TW's native saver and a generic broswer addon or TiddlySpot, that's it - and the issues and questions about saving mechanisms and different systems are, well, just above my head. Also, it is a service that would need constant attention to be up to date so (as usual) we'd really need an infrastructure where the community can make contributions and edits...

If anyone qualified wants to take over  http://setup.tiddlyspot.com/ I'd be more than happy to hand it over.

<:-)

[Riz]

Attached is the proposal for "Getting started -Firefox" I was considering. Other platforms can be reshaped in this model. Please download, drag it to tiddlywiki.com and see

[Birthe C]

Riz,

Timimi link does not work. You have written [[Timimi|Timimi: WebExtension and Native Host by Riz]], but the tiddler at tw.com is called:

"Timimi" Extension and executable by Riz. I might be that that tiddler should also be corrected then.

Birthe

[Rizwan Ishak]

Oh, sorry about that. I have made a pull request to that effect a couple of days ago. So in my fork of tiddlywiki.com, it the tiddler is already renamed. Jeremy has reviewed the PR and will merge it soon. So that will be ok.

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[Sylvain Naudin]

Hi Riz,

I'm not sure about the Servers and Cloud savers section about the possibilities in Firefox. Since this applies to any browser, I won't refer to it in detail here.
(just as I find that it shouldn't be the case today looking at the tiles again, and that it should be referenced elsewhere).

Otherwise I think it's a great introduction to start with :)

And nice to see you again among us!

Cheers,

Sylvain

[Rizwan Ishak]

I was following the save methods listing as is. I did consider separating it out as Browser independent methods. But that would receive nearly zero attention from a normal new user. This way at least he knows he has more options. 

Finally, about the current saver listing. For a normal new user - how do we assume he/she want to filter the saving options? He knows he is in windows OS, and he uses Firefox mainly. So he is interested in the intersection of these options. What all can he use in windows AND Firefox? At present you can only filter by one criterion. Users should be able to add multiple criteria to the filter.

Anyone has a model logic to suggest how to achieve something like - tagged by everything in the list field?

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[TonyM]

Riz

In such cases its about the union of groups. Selecting Windows should keep all windows possibilities alive including firefox, clicking firetfox should lisk all solutions that work with both.

However the servers allow the same across all browsers at a URL so if its a served or Single File wiki changes everything, unless you are publishing and dont need users to update the wiki then it can go anywhere, not to mention noteself. But new users should not be making decisions about this when first introduced as they will pull their hair out. 

This problem demands an analysis process and a way to provide an optimal decision tree for each set of circumstances. Until then it will be a draft.

Regards

Tony

On Monday, 4 May 2020 08:26:13 UTC+10, Riz wrote:

I was following the save methods listing as is. I did consider separating it out as Browser independent methods. But that would receive nearly zero attention from a normal new user. This way at least he knows he has more options. 

Finally, about the current saver listing. For a normal new user - how do we assume he/she want to filter the saving options? He knows he is in windows OS, and he uses Firefox mainly. So he is interested in the intersection of these options. What all can he use in windows AND Firefox? At present you can only filter by one criterion. Users should be able to add multiple criteria to the filter.

Anyone has a model logic to suggest how to achieve something like - tagged by everything in the list field?

On Mon, 4 May 2020, 03:39 Sylvain Naudin, <sil...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Riz,

I'm not sure about the Servers and Cloud savers section about the possibilities in Firefox. Since this applies to any browser, I won't refer to it in detail here.
(just as I find that it shouldn't be the case today looking at the tiles again, and that it should be referenced elsewhere).

Otherwise I think it's a great introduction to start with :)

And nice to see you again among us!

Cheers,

Sylvain

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[Mohammad]

Hi Riz,

On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 10:38:43 PM UTC+4:30, Riz wrote:

These are valid points Mohammad.

As you know, I was away from being active in the community in between. Life happens. However before I left, there was a move to shift tiddlywiki github Repo to an organizational Repo with roles assigned to volunteers - so that burden on Jeremy will be less. I don't know why it has not bore fruit after this much time. @PMario - care to chime in?

This is what I think! an organizational repo with of course many volunteers! I hope Jeremy shed some lights here to see what are the barrier it has not implemented yet! 

Also about newbies  - here is what I have in mind about an ideal solution. As you said - it should be a wizard. A wizard that is a plugin, so that newbies could uninstall/delete the intro wizard once they are comfortable. It should sit at the top, like the menu-bar currently in tiddlywiki.com and give instructions. It should also highlight the button the newbie has to press - changing the color of that particular button svg for the step or something. Ideally there should not be a next button at all in the wizard. Instead, wizard should listen to events at the concerned button of current step and show the next instruction automatically.

Agree! When I look at some rival products like DokuWiki, I see on installation page one can select at least among plugins, languages, portability, ... we need such wizard getting started

 

Yes, we need to start collecting and documenting. A good resource is your Wikis itself. If you would like to contribute to core documentation, I can help whatever ways I can. Also - in my opinion, you should try making pull requests for parts of your Shiraz plugin to the core. I know there is a radical redesign undertaking happening. But it never hurts to make small changes in the meantime.

The reason I did not is, my limited knowledge of Tiddlywiki core and JS. But yes I can help on downstream :-)

--Mohammad