Discussion on GitHub: Good or bad

[Mohammad]

GitHub has started a discussion service, so there is no need to open issue or PR.

Having this forum, I am not sure if this is good or bad for Tiddlywiki to open its discussion service on GitHub.

I have experimentally set up Shiraz discussion service. See

https://github.com/kookma/TW-Shiraz/discussions

--Mohammad

[TW Tones]

Reviewing - reply posted

Tones

[Jeremy Ruston]

GitHub’s mission is focussed on developers, a very different audience than TiddlyWiki.

GitHub Discussions might make sense for the Dev group but I worry that the whole mis-en-scene of GitHub is much too complicated and confusing for mainstream users, and so I struggle to see us adopting it for the main group.

Having said that, adoption by plugin authors such as yourself seems like a great way to investigate further. Many plugin authors are already on GitHub and so having a single stack of notifications to pay attention could be very useful.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[Mohammad]

Hi Jeremy,

 Many thanks for clarification. I understand your concerns.

--Mohammad

[PMario]

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 10:57:08 AM UTC+1 Jeremy Ruston wrote:

GitHub’s mission is focussed on developers, a very different audience than TiddlyWiki.

I would love to have the "Discussions" area be opened at TiddlyWiki repo.

 

GitHub Discussions might make sense for the Dev group but I worry that the whole mis-en-scene of GitHub is much too complicated and confusing for mainstream users, and so I struggle to see us adopting it for the main group.

We do have 855 open issues in our repo. Many of them are "ideas" and "discussions". Many ideas are really great, that's why the are not closed.

I think it would be easy to move or link them into the discussions area, where they don't mess with "real" issues, we are able to fix.

This may also be true for some pull-requests, which are kept open for years, which is a real pain point ... at least for me!

 

Having said that, adoption by plugin authors such as yourself seems like a great way to investigate further. Many plugin authors are already on GitHub and so having a single stack of notifications to pay attention could be very useful.

 

Yea, If you want to build a community around your plugins, it may be useful!

my 2 €ents.

Mario

[Jeremy Ruston]

I think a reasonable proposal would be to move the Dev group to GitHub discussions:

* The developer community is already on GitHub because it's where the core development happens

* Google Groups doesn't serve the developer community very well, lacking syntax highlighted code blocks, and the ability to reference existing issues and PRs

* Switching the Dev Google Group to read-only and redirecting to GitHub discussions would give us useful experience for any subsequent move of the main discussion group

I don't see much point in just enabling discussions on the TW5 repository without purposely establishing the community there. People can experiment with discussions on other repositories.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

--

Jeremy Ruston

jer...@jermolene.com

https://jermolene.com

On 9 Dec 2020, at 11:48, PMario <pmar...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi Jeremy,

I think a reasonable proposal would be to move the Dev group to GitHub discussions:

Good idea!

* The developer community is already on GitHub because it's where the core development happens

* Google Groups doesn't serve the developer community very well, lacking syntax highlighted code blocks, and the ability to reference existing issues and PRs

* Switching the Dev Google Group to read-only and redirecting to GitHub discussions would give us useful experience for any subsequent move of the main discussion group

I don't see much point in just enabling discussions on the TW5 repository without purposely establishing the community there. People can experiment with discussions on other repositories.

There are some useful features: You can select the best answers, you can have categories, like ideas! you can have team discussion, pinned discussion, filter answered and unanswered questions, simply refer to issue and PR, and much more,...

See GitHub announcement statement

Software communities don’t just write code together. They brainstorm feature ideas, help new users get their bearings, and collaborate on best ways to use the software. Until now, GitHub only offered issues and pull requests as places to have these conversations. But issues and pull requests both have a linear format—well suited for merging code, but not for creating a community knowledge base. Conversations need their own place—that’s what GitHub Discussions is for.  

So this is a good move!

Thank you Jeremy!

--Mohammad

[Jeremy Ruston]

One feature of GitHub discussions is that one can convert issues into discussions, either individually or in bulk. I can imagine that that could be very helpful for us.

I’ve set up https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/discussions and will make a post about it shortly to the Dev group.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

On 10 Dec 2020, at 08:41, Mohammad Rahmani <mohammad...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Jeremy,

I think a reasonable proposal would be to move the Dev group to GitHub discussions:

Good idea!

* The developer community is already on GitHub because it's where the core development happens

* Google Groups doesn't serve the developer community very well, lacking syntax highlighted code blocks, and the ability to reference existing issues and PRs

* Switching the Dev Google Group to read-only and redirecting to GitHub discussions would give us useful experience for any subsequent move of the main discussion group

I don't see much point in just enabling discussions on the TW5 repository without purposely establishing the community there. People can experiment with discussions on other repositories.

<image.png>

There are some useful features: You can select the best answers, you can have categories, like ideas! you can have team discussion, pinned discussion, filter answered and unanswered questions, simply refer to issue and PR, and much more,...

See GitHub announcement statement

Software communities don’t just write code together. They brainstorm feature ideas, help new users get their bearings, and collaborate on best ways to use the software. Until now, GitHub only offered issues and pull requests as places to have these conversations. But issues and pull requests both have a linear format—well suited for merging code, but not for creating a community knowledge base. Conversations need their own place—that’s what GitHub Discussions is for.  

So this is a good move!

Thank you Jeremy!

--Mohammad

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[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi Jeremy,

Many thanks, I will try to be the first who post there :-)

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 6:43 PM Jeremy Ruston <jeremy...@gmail.com> wrote:

One feature of GitHub discussions is that one can convert issues into discussions, either individually or in bulk. I can imagine that that could be very helpful for us.

Right now we have 858 issues, some of them are not issues and can be converted to questions or ideas and I hope Saq, Mario, BTC and other developers can help with this.

I’ve set up https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/discussions and will make a post about it shortly to the Dev group.

Wow, love it!

Best wishes

Jeremy.

Best wishes

Mohammad

[Mohammad Rahmani]

This is the first discussion post as an idea for Tiddlywiki on GitHub discussion panel!

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/discussions/5248#discussion-58631

Best wishes

Mohammad

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 6:43 PM Jeremy Ruston <jeremy...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/D18FBABC-FFC7-4506-A757-A9D5D3982879%40gmail.com.

[Mohammad Rahmani]

This is the welcome message by Jeremy

Welcome to the TiddlyWiki5 developer discussion group. This is the place for talking about TiddlyWiki core internals and development, and plugin development issues. For general assistance with TiddlyWiki5 features, macros, formatting, documentation, etc., please see the TiddlyWiki group.

I highly encourage all users users have questions, ideas regarding what Jeremy stated above, specially developers, super users , ... to use Tiddlywiki new discussion service because you can 

1. edit your post and correct mistakes, typos,...
2. delete a post
3. use markdown
4. use codeblock and syntax highlighting 
5. ping a user using @
6. quote in reply
7. link to a PR, or issue
8. categorize your post
9. select the best answer
10. vote by thumb up/down to a post

and much more ....

ONE IMPORTANT THING, If you gonna to use Tiddlywiki discussion service, please don't forget to star Tiddlywiki at https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5

Tiddlywiki deserves to have million stars,... and this is a new opportunity to star it!

Best wishes

Mohammad

Best wishes

Mohammad

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 6:43 PM Jeremy Ruston <jeremy...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/D18FBABC-FFC7-4506-A757-A9D5D3982879%40gmail.com.

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Jeremy

GitHub’s mission is focussed on developers, a very different audience than TiddlyWiki.

Right. Actually GitHub Discussions ARE (I been using it) pretty easy to understand and contribute to.

GitHub Discussions might make sense for the Dev group but I worry that the whole mis-en-scene of GitHub is much too complicated and confusing for mainstream users, and so I struggle to see us adopting it for the main group.

Agreed 

Also the sheer volume of posts in the main group would be, I think, far too unwieldy to do through GH well. 

Best wishes

TT

[Jeremy Ruston]

One thing I've discovered is that it when GitHub sends a notification email it is not possible to distinguish discussion posts from issues. That's pretty catastrophic for me because I usually triage things via filters in email. So from a core development team perspective I definitely wouldn't want the repository swamped with our general discussion traffic.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Jeremy Ruston

jer...@jermolene.com

https://jermolene.com

On 12 Dec 2020, at 09:23, TiddlyTweeter <tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:



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[Saq Imtiaz]

Jeremy: check the CC field of the discussion notification emails to see if there is something to filter them by.

https://docs.github.com/en/free-pro-team@latest/github/managing-subscriptions-and-notifications-on-github/configuring-notifications#filtering-email-notifications

[TiddlyTweeter]

But Saq. 

For the context that won't help a lot UNLESS general discussion is Dev highly relevant.

As far as I can see the general discussion group--vital to end users--is NOT dominantly about development of TW. 

Its about optimizing usage. I find it hard to see how GH is relevant to that need.

With the (good) move of TiddlyWikiDev to GH it will become sensible to link to the GH Discussions from general GG posts when RELEVANT. But discussing everything on GH seems a very bad idea.

Thoughts

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

We should make clear that we talking about discussion ANYWHERE on GitHub, not just in the TW repository.

I DO think its a route to start development support for many aspects of TW real usage. For instance I would love a special Dev context to collaborate on POWERSHELL script  development for TW. It provides an easy cross-platform method to handle seamlessly all the background tasks you need to run TW as a dev environment. (Myself I wrote scripts for auto-downland of wiki. The PS scripts launched from within a TW)

That kind of capacity is not for discussing here. But a dedicated GitHub discussion would be optimal and might help it shape into something tangible.

Best wishes

TT

[Saq Imtiaz]

"For the context that won't help a lot UNLESS general discussion is Dev highly relevant."

@TT my comment is meant to facilitate separating the Dev discussions on Github from Issues and PRs. I would expect Issues and PRs to be of greater urgency, and hence would sort them differently in my inbox.

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Saq

Got it! Agreed!

Just want to post resistance to any idea arising everything should go GitHub!

TiddlyWikiDev on GG is being retired in favour (correctly) of GH.

This group isn't & any idea it should makes no sense.

Best wishes

TT

[Saq Imtiaz]

@TT we are in agreement. While Dev discussions on GH are a good move, I already feel the need to manage those notifications better and would not want to clutter them further with non-development related discussions.