Is there a way to automatically save changes on TiddlyWiki?

[Alessandra Carnevale]

I used to gather my notes on Google docs, that saves automatically every single change. Then I shifted to tiddly wiki, but I am struggling because I fear everytime that I didn't click on the "save" buttom or that my PC will crash. 

I read some recommendation on the Internet without any success.

I downloaded the webextension timimi and it didn't work.

I downloaded note.js (It was highly recommended) and it doesn't work.

I am far from being an expert with computer and I wanted to find an easy way to stay safe while writing my thesis.

Any suggestions?

[Charlie Veniot]

I keep my TiddlyWiki instances in Google Drive, and use the TiddlyDrive add-on, which has an autosave feature.

[PMario]

Hi,

On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 1:07:01 PM UTC+2 arlandri...@gmail.com wrote:

I downloaded the webextension timimi and it didn't work.

TiddlyWiki has an "autosave" option that can be found at: $:/ControlPanel : Saving : General : Save Changes Automatically which is set to ON by default.

So as soon as you click "Done" on a tiddler, that is edited, you will save the whole wiki. If backup settings are done right, you should be safe!

 

I downloaded note.js (It was highly recommended) and it doesn't work.

If the node server runs, basically every keystroke is sent back to the server. Also if you open a tiddler in edit mode a "Draft of XXX" tiddler will be created. So your original tiddler isn't affected by any change you make. ...

This gives us the possibility to "Cancel" any changes. .. We just throw away the "Draft of" tiddler and leave the orginal tiddler in tact.

If you click done, the original tiddler will be written and then the "Draft of" will be deleted. ..

--------------

The new TW UI for a node-js version has an option at the "cloud" icon: "Save snapshot" ...

So if you think you are finished with something important, you can make a snapshot as an additional backup.

hope that helps

-mario

 

[Alessandra Carnevale]

Thank you everybody.

@Mario, I had already the autosave option on, but I would prefer something that saves every changes because sometimes I see that the contenent of my tiddler disappeared and considering that it is a precious work I want to be safe.

Then I tried to follow the instructions written in this page for Node.js 

https://github.com/frankrousseau/TiddlyWiki 

but then if I try to install tiddlywiki it says "npm should be run outside of the Node.js REPL, in your normal shell".

Actually I have already created a TiddlyWiki file and I don't know how to import it to Node.js.

For the other user: how did you manage to copy a html file to google drive? If I try to do it, it opens a google docs full of codes .

[PMario]

Hi,

Which OS do you use?

-m

[PMario]

On Thursday, May 13, 2021 at 11:54:04 AM UTC+2 arlandri...@gmail.com wrote:

Actually I have already created a TiddlyWiki file and I don't know how to import it to Node.js.

This will be easy, once you have a nodejs version running.

Just drag & drop import the file-wiki into the nodejs wiki.

But you need a working server version first.

-mario

[Charlie Veniot]

Silly question:  are you asking for save to happen for every key press while you are editing a tiddler ?

[Alessandra Carnevale]

Really sorry for my late reply.

@cj.v Yes, basically. I'd like also to find a way to storage my tiddlywiki in a file hosting service (like Google Drive or Dropbox), but considering that it is a html it is written everywhere that I can't copy and past it there. How did you do?

@mario even if I copy and paste it on Node.js, I don't know what to do next...

[Alessandra Carnevale]

I fear my version is not suitable to Node.js, so is there a way to update my tiddlywiki version without doing all my work from scratch?

[PMario]

On Tuesday, June 1, 2021 at 5:02:19 AM UTC+2 arlandri...@gmail.com wrote:

@mario even if I copy and paste it on Node.js, I don't know what to do next...

Which OS do you use. Windows, Mac or Linux .. any other ?

-m

[PMario]

Hi,

I do have a different idea, using the "local storage" plugin, but I want to do more tests, since there is a behaviour, that I did see with an older version. I want to be sure, that we are really able to avoid data loss.

Will post about my tests soon.

-mario

[Alessandra Carnevale]

Dear Mario, I am using Windows

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[Alessandra Carnevale]

Another reason why I would like to be as safe as possible using TiddlyWiki is because sometimes it happens that I want to modifiy a tiddler and the whole tiddler's component disappears... If I didn't save the original document on Google docs I would have lost all the material on which I have worked for almost a year...has this ever happened to you?

[PMario]

On Friday, June 4, 2021 at 9:13:12 AM UTC+2 arlandri...@gmail.com wrote:

Another reason why I would like to be as safe as possible using TiddlyWiki is because sometimes it happens that I want to modifiy a tiddler and the whole tiddler's component disappears...

What do you mean with "tiddler's component disappears"? ... If I do write text content it has never happened, that I accidentally deleted something. ...

If I write new plugins or experiment with action-setfield or similar widgets it can happen, that I delete something, if the widget variables are not initialized in the right way.

But for experiments I always use a "throw away copy" of a wiki not a production version.

For development I also work with a version control system, which makes it relatively safe to experiment.

 

If I didn't save the original document on Google docs I would have lost all the material on which I have worked for almost a year...has this ever happened to you?

No ... For file TWs I do use my file-backups browser plugin, which saves backups with a special "Backup Strategy", which makes it harder to loose content. Due to browser security restrictions my wikis have to be in a x:\Downloads\wikis\ folder ... But that's OK for me, since the folder is additionally pushed to a Qnap NAS, where all my important content is backed-up.

-mario

[Charlie Veniot]

Oh, no worries.  I've been busy lately and not paying much attention to the conversations here.

I store all of my TiddlyWiki instances in Google Drive.  (Aside:  I work on the files there and when a file is ready for me to share with the world, if I share that file with the world, I then copy the whole TiddlyWiki to a host site on the web ... so treating Google Drive as my "development" area, and neocities as my "production" / publishing area/)

Any HTML file (like TiddlyWiki files) in Google Drive, when double-clicked, will be opened up like a text file.  Yuck.

To open a TiddlyWiki  file properly, you need the Google Drive add-on called TiddlyDrive.

Easy way to install the add-on:

• double-click on a TiddlyWiki file in Google Drive
• when it opens in "text" mode (i.e. you are seeing TiddlyWiki's raw HTML), you'll see a "open with" option just above the viewed HTML; use that to find/choose TiddlyDrive

[Alessandra Carnevale]

Charlie, thank you so much! It works.

Mario, this is what it happens, and it happens almost every time; I click on the tiddler that I want to open/edit, then I click on "edit this tiddler", then the whole content of the tiddler that I could have read until that very moment disappears! I am writing a thesis so it is all plain text. For this reason I am a bit scared of using tiddlywiki sometimes. The only positive aspect is that if I click on "show current tiddler revision" I can see the past versions so I can be saved if it happens, but still it doesn't always save the previous version so I deem i very dangerous.

I will try your application, but I guess I couldn't use it if I storage my tiddly on Google drive, right?

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[PMario]

On Saturday, June 5, 2021 at 8:21:08 AM UTC+2 arlandri...@gmail.com wrote:

 

Mario, this is what it happens, and it happens almost every time; I click on the tiddler that I want to open/edit, then I click on "edit this tiddler", then the whole content of the tiddler that I could have read until that very moment disappears! I am writing a thesis so it is all plain text. For this reason I am a bit scared of using tiddlywiki sometimes.

This is a "scaring" behaviour and definitely shouldn't happen.

So which plugins do you use? TW doesn't have a built in revision system. So I'm pretty sure that eiteher 1 of you plugins or the combination of several plugins cause the problem.

 

BACKUP FIRST

1 - You can try to disable all your plugins, and

2 - See if the problem still happens.

3 - Then activate the plugins 1 by 1.

4 - Page reload will be needed for most of them

5 - Go to 2

Or

If you want I can have a look at your wiki. You can zip it and post it to me privately if you want. The e-mail link can be found at github profile page. https://github.com/pmario

-mario

[Alessandra Carnevale]

Gosh I realized I was using 5 plugins at the same time (I was scared of losing important data at this point!)

They were:

1) Timimi

2) Tiddlypouch for TiddlyWiki

3) Plugin containing specific configuration for the Online version of Noteself

4)The Pouchdb library as a TW5 plugin

5)TidllyWiki 5 core

I wasn't able to disable only the last one, and I am trying to follow the steps enlisted in your first advice.

If I see that the problem still persists, I will try to send you my TiddlyWiki.

Thank you so much for your help.

[TW Tones]

Mario,

I hope this is the appropriate thread?

I believe you already have the skills we need to use the local storage and save changes process I proposed elsewhere.

• If I go to a site with the local storage plugin installed, not using auto save, make it so the only way to reset the dirty flag, thus leave the website tab is clicking a "logout" process. Thus logout process would (if possible silently) save the changes with the following filter [haschanged[]] [enlist{$:/temp/BrowserStorage/Log}] !readme.txt 
• This save would in fact be a download to a download folder only. See below for a download folder name. This is like your backup solution?
• Then if this save can occur silently, like the backup solution you have already designed (I think), the user keeps using the URL to get to the site and uses local storage, to close the browser or tab they must use the logout process (Which could look like the current save button).
• If we can save silently it would not be as intrusive if the changes backup need only occur when closing the tab or browser.
• Then a mechaisium to detect either first visit (no changes saved yet) or the possibly rare case of lost browser storage, where the user can create a new "backup changes" or restore the last saved changes.
• The value being all saves can be in the download folder or below, perhaps a folder based on the url such that the folder will be unique to a url, as is the local storage. That is the name determine where the changes are saved, so if lost the previous save can be found.
• A separate download of the whole wiki plus changes (the default save) would be needed to move to another save mechanism, local copy or to access in another browser., or another machine. 
  • If browsers share the download folder perhaps you can change browsers on the same machine?
  • We could have a "full backup" method, similar to the download, as well, to restore the whole wiki, even a new one at a public or private url.

Notes:

• Perhaps cookies are less prone to loss than local storage, perhaps a cookie could store the backup folder/filename? If not present on current url/wiki prompt to load from downloads?

Tones

[PMario]

BACKUP FIRST

I don't know if your noteself plugins are active. ... The pouchdb saver is designed, to store information in the browser local storage. So if you change the PC it may be possible that some content is missing, since it is part of a different device. ...

So if you disable the pouchdb plugins, it may be possible, that you don't see all tiddlers. Then you have to activate the plugins again.

----------------------------------------------

Removing a plugin is simple.

 - Open the ControlPanel Plugins tab

 - Click a plugin, so it opens the plugin tiddler

 - Click the More button and select "Delete Tiddler"

 - You will be asked - Click yes

Done

--------------------------------------------------

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 4:45:15 AM UTC+2 arlandri...@gmail.com wrote:

Gosh I realized I was using 5 plugins at the same time (I was scared of losing important data at this point!)

Using 5 plugins or more isn't a problem. .. The problem is, that you use several plugins, that mess with the "saving mechanism".

They are usually designed to be used exclusively.

They were:

1) Timimi

Timimi is a "saver plugin" similar to my "file-backups" AddOn. So you should not have 2 of them active at the same time!

In 1 of your prior posts, you did mention, that Timimi didn't work for you ... So I'm confused.

How does your "save message" and "save dialogue" look like atm?

 

2) Tiddlypouch for TiddlyWiki

Tiddlypouch is part of https://noteself.org/ So if you don't use it, you should remove those elements.

 

3) Plugin containing specific configuration for the Online version of Noteself

Belongs to NoteSelf

 

4)The Pouchdb library as a TW5 plugin

Belongs to NoteSelf

 

5)TidllyWiki 5 core

I wasn't able to disable only the last one, and I am trying to follow the steps enlisted in your first advice.

You can't delete the TW core, since it would make the wiki useless.

-mario

[PMario]

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 5:53:33 AM UTC+2 TW Tones wrote:

I believe you already have the skills we need to use the local storage and save changes process I proposed elsewhere.

I was also thinking about using local storage, as a second step, but I think at the moment, we need to fix the existing problem first. I think the setup is to "fragile" atm, to add an other unknown element.

just my thoughts.

-mario

[PMario]

Hi,

Seeing all of this mess, I think the best option would be to start with a new and empty wiki and export / import the content from your existing wiki.

1) The number of tiddlers in a wiki can be found at: https://tiddlywiki.com/#%24%3A%2Fcore%2Fui%2FControlPanel%2FBasics ..

It's the $:/ControlPanel : Info : Basics tab

So if you have a look at: "Number of tiddlers" and "Number of tags" you can see the number and the "Search icon".

If you click the search icon, it will open the AdvancedSearch : Filter tab.

There you can say: Export - As JSON ... You should do this,

Then download emtpy.html from tiddlywiki .com

 - Open it in the browser

 - Drag & Drop import the tiddlers.json file from the file explorer

The number of tiddlers should be similar as in 1)

 - Import them

 - Have a look at the ControlPanel : Info : Basics tab again.

 - The number of tags should be the same as before.

Tell me how it goes.

-mario

[Alessandra Carnevale]

Mario, I will try during these days and I will let you know.

Thank you so much for your precious help.

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[PMario]

On Friday, June 11, 2021 at 10:57:33 AM UTC+2 arlandri...@gmail.com wrote:

Mario, I will try during these days and I will let you know.

Thank you so much for your precious help.

You are welcome. ...

I personally experience TiddlyWiki as a software, that I trust a 100%. (with some backups ;) ... So reading you OT really scared me.

I admire, that you are still here and try to solve the problems. Someone else would have left already... So I strongly believe, that you deserve some engagement ;)

have fun!

mario

[Alessandra Carnevale]

Mario, here I am again! you would deserve a special mention in my thesis once I've done with this mess :D basically I could have graduated in Tiddly Wiki's science.

Btw, everything went smoothly, I've created a new tiddly wiki. Only in one case I found that a tindler's content disappeared after having been imported to the new wiki, but the numbers of tiddlers of the first version and the ones of the second version was the same so I am not sure what the problem was.

In fact it wasn't the tiddler that disappeared, but only its content.
Apart from that, I haven't found anymore the "scarying" issue of which I talked to you about.

Now that it looks like the problem has been fixed, which plug in would you suggest to use? still node.js?

And, last question (I swear it); is there a way to search for a specific word in the whole wiki? I mean something similar to the CTRL+H function that you use on Google drive.

[PMario]

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:35:38 AM UTC+2 arlandri...@gmail.com wrote:

Mario, here I am again!

Hi,

you would deserve a special mention in my thesis once I've done with this mess :D basically I could have graduated in Tiddly Wiki's science.

:)

 

Btw, everything went smoothly, I've created a new tiddly wiki.

ok

 

Only in one case I found that a tindler's content disappeared after having been imported to the new wiki,

Did is disappear in the same way as with the old wiki, or has it been empty in the import already? ... Did this cause a problem?

 

but the numbers of tiddlers of the first version and the ones of the second version was the same so I am not sure what the problem was.

If it wasn't part of the exported file already, there may be no problem. .. If you could read content in the view-mode and it has been gone by clicking "edit", there is still something strange going on.

 

In fact it wasn't the tiddler that disappeared, but only its content.

Yea, So it would be interesting, if it hasn't been exported.

 

Apart from that, I haven't found anymore the "scarying" issue of which I talked to you about.

Good \o/

Now that it looks like the problem has been fixed, which plug in would you suggest to use? still node.js?

I did think about TiddlyDirve, ... but you would need to deactivate autosave, which isn't what you want. ...

So I will test, if browser local storage works together with TiddlyDrive. ... Since I personally don't use TD I'll have to start from scratch, which will hopefully show me all the "traps" ;)

I'll need some time to be more detailed.

 

And, last question (I swear it); is there a way to search for a specific word in the whole wiki? I mean something similar to the CTRL+H function that you use on Google drive.

The default search input in the sidebar searches in tiddler titles and text field. If you also want to search in other fields, I did create a plugin for this.

To easily import and update 1 of my plugins go to https://wikilabs.github.io/ and have a look at the video. ... It tells, how you can import the library config tiddler into your wiki.

This contains a configuration tiddler, that lets you import plugins in the same way as you import tiddlywiki-plugins. It uses the same dialogue in the ControlPanel : Plugins : Get More Plugins   button

The plugin demo can be found at: https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/field-search/ ... There is also a video, that shows how to use it. ...  BUT this is only needed, if you need to search in other fields as the text or title!

have fun!

mario

[PMario]

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:35:38 AM UTC+2 arlandri...@gmail.com wrote:

Btw, everything went smoothly, I've created a new tiddly wiki. Only in one case I found that a tindler's content disappeared after having been imported to the new wiki, but the numbers of tiddlers of the first version and the ones of the second version was the same so I am not sure what the problem was.

Just to be sure. Which plugins are installed now?

Did you remove those discussed at: https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/tUeWm_B07DQ/m/hJGi8nfuAwAJ ?

-m

[PMario]

On Friday, June 18, 2021 at 11:35:38 AM UTC+2 arlandri...@gmail.com wrote:

Now that it looks like the problem has been fixed, which plug in would you suggest to use? still node.js?

And, last question (I swear it); is there a way to search for a specific word in the whole wiki? I mean something similar to the CTRL+H function that you use on Google drive.

Hi,

I did just release 3 videos, where I do show a possibility that may be interesting for you, since you already use GoogleDrives.

It is a combination with file-backups AddOn for FireFox, which saves to a directory I called "driveWikis" you can name than any way you want. The "driveWikis" folder is synced to Google Drive which is connected to TiddlyDrive. This configuration allows you to change the wiki from a local file uri and the web.

It's not intended to be edited at the same time, but the wikis should be safely synced between several devices.

have fun!

mario

[Alessandra Carnevale]

Thank you!

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[Alessandra Carnevale]

Really sorry if I replied so late. I had a problem with my PC, this time not related to Tiddly Wiki :D 

This evening I will try your auto-save plug-in.

At the moment, the only plug-in I have is Tiddly-Wiki 5 core.

Anyway, when I imported my wiki the text that it wasn't imported was already there.

When I first imported the wiki, as I told you, I didn't have the  "disappering" issue, but in the recent days when I am using my PC again, the scarying behaviour has occured again.

So I don't really get the problem.

[PMario]

On Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 5:36:52 AM UTC+2 arlandri...@gmail.com wrote:

Really sorry if I replied so late. I had a problem with my PC, this time not related to Tiddly Wiki :D 

This evening I will try your auto-save plug-in.

At the moment, the only plug-in I have is Tiddly-Wiki 5 core.

Anyway, when I imported my wiki the text that it wasn't imported was already there.

When I first imported the wiki, as I told you, I didn't have the  "disappering" issue, but in the recent days when I am using my PC again, the scarying behaviour has occured again.

So I don't really get the problem.

Hi,

I did reply to your private mail and I'm confident, that my guesses are right. ...

Please let me know, if I am right :)

When we are sure we sorted it out, we'll let the other know.

-mario

[Alessandra Carnevale]

Great, thanks again!

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