Stroll: last call for experimenting

[David Gifford]

Hi everyone

I finally got around to updating Stroll (replacement for my TiddlyBlink). I think it is just about ready. Here is the link:

https://giffmex.org/experiments/stroll.experiment.html

Play with it until you find its flaws. Be merciless. Make it bleed. Then let me know what needs bandaging or amputating. You have one week.

Thanks in advance!

[Mohammad]

Hi David,

 You coined the Stroll for this lovely bi-directional linking tool! This is a real WebApp

  Congratulation!

Best wishes

Mohammad

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

Yay! I'm excited about Stroll itself but also about the work you put into making it accessible to newcomers — thank you! This is one of the most comprehensive interactive tutorials I've seen so far.

[TonyM]

David,

This looks very nice and bravo on the documentation. Its a work of art. 

Can I assume all the conversations about Roam and Tiddlybink are incorporated into Stroll so I do not need to work through those extensive threads?

Since working through the Tutorial I found references to the differences Thanks.

When someone sees something close to perfection the want to take it a little further. 

So please use my below suggestions as you wish. Your tutorial is so good may I suggest these improvements towards perfection?

Try this code in your [[Using tiddlers]] which would be helpful in any wiki

<$list filter="[<currentTiddler>!match[Using tiddlers]]">
In order to be able to do the other activities below, click this link to open this tiddler: [[Using tiddlers]]
</$list>

<$list filter="[<currentTiddler>match[Using tiddlers]]">
<h3>Yay! Now you are not in a tab but in the actual 'Using tiddlers' tiddler.</h3>
</$list>

• The Pink eye options did not work until I opened [[David Gifford]] for the first time, or is that because it is the tiddler for which we are reviewing references, Perhaps this needs more clarity.
• There is a Way to have a next tab button at the bottom of each tab, perhaps even automated (ask me if you wan this sooner)
• You could close other tiddlers and other tricks to keep the tute easier to follow.
• Your new with time date stamp could benefit from some enhancements I developed previously.
• Add a tag like journal entry (keep the tiddlywiki standard going perhaps) or use the journal date-field to identify them in future
• Eg; create a journal-date field at creation and fill it with the full now date time stamp serial number
• Then you need not care what journal title is used as they can always be listed and SORTED with the journal-date field instead
• I have a method I can share to make selecting the second story view easier (basicaly it provides the set of values to any configuration tiddler)
• I see your using the horizontal line to make folded tiddlers more visible/or not. Have you considered the fold bar option?
   (it shows a special line and has a fold icon on the left of the tiddler) I cant find it just now
• When I did this "Lock the left story river by choosing the zoomin story view in this tiddler" I got lost and only my experience with tiddlywiki got me back to the tutorial
• When I did this "Lock the right story river by replacing the word 'classic' with the word 'zoomin' in this tiddler"  

  $:/_sq/Stories/config/Story2-storyview 

  it did not contain any value.
• Perhaps say "If you lock (with Zoomin story view) either of the story rivers..."
• An option to disable this would help me get used to Stoll, Also, if you close tidders and only one is left, Stroll will revert back to one column.", perhaps have an emptyMessage Tiddler for each story?
• In Download Stroll Perhaps provide some of the top single save methods like Timimi
• https://giffmex.org/stroll/empty.html is not found to download
  

In closing

WOW! good work

I am soooo impressed.

Regards

Tony

[David Gifford]

Hi Tony, Thanks for the kind words and helpful feedback. See some replies below in bold.

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 8:35 PM TonyM <anthony...@gmail.com> wrote:

David,

This looks very nice and bravo on the documentation. Its a work of art. 

Thanks!

Can I assume all the conversations about Roam and Tiddlybink are incorporated into Stroll so I do not need to work through those extensive threads?

Since working through the Tutorial I found references to the differences Thanks.

 

Yes, Roam-y wiki was my first experimental attempt. TiddlyBlink was the "published" version of that experiment. And now Stroll will be the successor to TiddlyBlink. I will link to Stroll on TiddlyBlink, but will leave TiddlyBlink available. 

When someone sees something close to perfection the want to take it a little further. 

So please use my below suggestions as you wish. Your tutorial is so good may I suggest these improvements towards perfection?

I do appreciate all the feedback below!

Try this code in your [[Using tiddlers]] which would be helpful in any wiki

<$list filter="[<currentTiddler>!match[Using tiddlers]]">
In order to be able to do the other activities below, click this link to open this tiddler: [[Using tiddlers]]
</$list>

<$list filter="[<currentTiddler>match[Using tiddlers]]">
<h3>Yay! Now you are not in a tab but in the actual 'Using tiddlers' tiddler.</h3>
</$list>

Cool! I have never seen that before. I will use it. Thanks! 

• The Pink eye options did not work until I opened [[David Gifford]] for the first time, or is that because it is the tiddler for which we are reviewing references, Perhaps this needs more clarity.

That is correct. The home tiddler has no backlinks to it, and the first tiddler one sees with a reference section when working through the tutorial is [[David Gifford]]. So if you tried to play with the checkboxes on tiddlers with no backlinks, you wouldn't see anything. I will double check the tutorial to make sure it is clear. And maybe put under the checkboxes a link to a tiddler with backlinks, so it is easier from that tab to open something that will show the difference.

• There is a Way to have a next tab button at the bottom of each tab, perhaps even automated (ask me if you wan this sooner)

No, I want new people to work through it naturally. It{s not hard to follow the initial instruction and click the next tab down after finishing each tab. I am not sure the very minimal functionality of a next tab would be worth the extra visual clutter and potential added layer of confusion for new people.

• You could close other tiddlers and other tricks to keep the tute easier to follow.

The other tiddlers are closed when opening the link to this experimental Stroll. There is only one tiddler open, and you only open and close other ones as you work through the tutorial. So I am not sure what you mean here.

• Your new with time date stamp could benefit from some enhancements I developed previously.
• Add a tag like journal entry (keep the tiddlywiki standard going perhaps) or use the journal date-field to identify them in future
• Eg; create a journal-date field at creation and fill it with the full now date time stamp serial number
• Then you need not care what journal title is used as they can always be listed and SORTED with the journal-date field instead

Trying to avoid tags as much as possible. But I will think about this.

• I have a method I can share to make selecting the second story view easier (basicaly it provides the set of values to any configuration tiddler)
• I see your using the horizontal line to make folded tiddlers more visible/or not. Have you considered the fold bar option?
   (it shows a special line and has a fold icon on the left of the tiddler) I cant find it just now

The horizontal line is in some of the reference section views, to visually distinguish them from the tiddler content. It has nothing to do with folding. I am not seeing that that line persists when folding tiddlers. Can you attach a screenshot of what you are referring to? Also, no, I don't want the fold bar, I know what it is but prefer to do it the way I have it.

• When I did this "Lock the left story river by choosing the zoomin story view in this tiddler" I got lost and only my experience with tiddlywiki got me back to the tutorial

Hmmm...good point. Maybe I need to remove that from the tutorial and add it to the gear tab. That is more for experienced users, anyway

• When I did this "Lock the right story river by replacing the word 'classic' with the word 'zoomin' in this tiddler"  

  $:/_sq/Stories/config/Story2-storyview 

  it did not contain any value.

Oops! will fix that!

• Perhaps say "If you lock (with Zoomin story view) either of the story rivers..."

But because of how Saq did the Stories plugin, the two processes are slightly different, so I think it is important to be as slavishly clear as possible for each. 

• An option to disable this would help me get used to Stoll, Also, if you close tidders and only one is left, Stroll will revert back to one column.", perhaps have an emptyMessage Tiddler for each story?

Thanks, I will consider it. 

• In Download Stroll Perhaps provide some of the top single save methods like Timimi

The problem is that I am genuinely only familiar with one or two of them, and even the documentation on the one I use, PMario's filebackups, is much more complicated now than it was when I first installed it. I really hate the saving problem and avoid it when I can.

There has been talk about improving the save documentation on tiddlywiki.com. I am kind of counting on that!

• https://giffmex.org/stroll/empty.html is not found to download
  

Yes, I will do the empty version after the week of feedback.

In closing

WOW! good work

I am soooo impressed.

Thanks again!

Regards

Tony

On Sunday, 3 May 2020 05:19:53 UTC+10, David Gifford wrote:

Hi everyone

I finally got around to updating Stroll (replacement for my TiddlyBlink). I think it is just about ready. Here is the link:

https://giffmex.org/experiments/stroll.experiment.html

Play with it until you find its flaws. Be merciless. Make it bleed. Then let me know what needs bandaging or amputating. You have one week.

Thanks in advance!

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[Peter Buyze]

Dave,

here is my 2 cents worth, as a newbie.

Activity:

In order to be able to do the other activities below, click this link to open this tiddler: Using tiddlers

Yay! Now you are not in a tab but in the actual 'Using tiddlers' tiddler.

After clicking on the link the tid "Using tiddlers" comes up. A newbie will then wonder how to get back to the "Welcome to Stroll" tid. The person will look for a "back" button as in a "conventional" app, not realising one just needs to scroll down.

This is the kind of thing (though not only) that sent me running away from TW when I sniffed at it 5 years ago.

On the "Using tiddlers" tid the "Activity" box (my 1st para above) telling people to open "Using tiddlers" also occurs: that does not make sense.

---

Activity:

In the sidebar, open the tab with the big pink eyeball (). Click on the checkboxes there to see how they change the appearance of the link at the bottom of this tiddler.

I did not see anything change to the link when checking various check boxes.

---

Now close this tiddler to return to the Stroll through Stroll tutorial.

When that tiddler is closed, the only one left open is the one with your name/my name. There is no tid open anymore with the column on the left. The Welcome or Stroll though Stroll can be picked up from the sidebar's Recent tab, but that's not obvious for a newbie.

A tutorial, esp. one for a tool like TW/Stroll, needs to be a "taking by the hand and show you" kind of experience. Increasing the user base has been a big topic of late: one of the reasons it is not any bigger is because of the big difference with "conventional" apps, TW is quite confusing at 1st.

---

Typo: To add all of Stroll to your own TiddlyWiki, drag the stroll tag pill linto ……

linto >> into

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2 May 2020, 22:19 by dgif...@crcna.org:

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[Edgaras]

Well done David! This is my new preferred version of TW notes!

I don't know if this is too far off, but I would really find useful to have < and > arrows in TW to go back and forward to the notes that I visited before.

I will spend more time with Stroll and then I can get more feedback.

[Edit]

Found it, export, import tools, dah! :D 

Btw, I am new to TW, is it easy to move my notes from another TW to Stroll?

[Ste Wilson]

Hi David
Is it worth a note for mobile users on how/if two columns is doable or not?

[TiddlyTweeter]

Is this a "stroll through the park?"

[Ste Wilson]

Live preview if there is the same tiddler open for edit on one side and view on the other or am I missing something? 

jr did a preview plugin but i can't find it on here...here it is in mine:

http://stephenteacher.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fplugins%2FJR%2FPreviewWindow:%24%3A%2Fplugins%2FJR%2FPreviewWindow%20%24%3A%2Fplugins%2FJR%2Fshowpreview%2FStoryTiddler%20%24%3A%2Fplugins%2FJR%2FshowpreviewWindow%20%5B%5Bshowpreview%20Window%20Button%5D%5D

Stephen

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi David,

thanks a lot for your effort for making this accessible for starters, great stuff!

I only strolled halfways through your tutorial and have a few remarks:

A) Why did you duplicate existing buttons with different (also existing, but coloured) icons?

Screenshot from the Tools sidebar.

Apart from the stopwatch icon (that I contributed for the timestamp functionality of TW), there is no clue why a user should use one or the other.

Let the community know if you lack icons, maybe there are people willing to help.

B) Folded tiddlers still show the links section, is this by design? Using Highlights in Context that still needs a lot of space.

C) Wording on the eye tab: The word references is alredy in the title, so I think you could omit "Refs" and "Refs as" and optimise readability by NOT using all caps.

D) Two Columns intro, step 4: As a non native English reader I find it hard to understand sentences like "Click the [ | ] icon in the sidebar page controls multiple times to toggle between one and two columns." Maybe this could be shorter? "Click the [ | ] icon in the sidebar to toggle between one and two columns." (Doesn’t the word "toggle" imply you can switch and switch back using the same button?)

I will have a break now. All the best,

Thomas

[David Gifford]

Thanks Peter, very helpful. See my comments in bold

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 12:51 AM 'Peter Buyze' via TiddlyWiki <tiddl...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dave,

here is my 2 cents worth, as a newbie.

Activity:

In order to be able to do the other activities below, click this link to open this tiddler: Using tiddlers

Yay! Now you are not in a tab but in the actual 'Using tiddlers' tiddler.

After clicking on the link the tid "Using tiddlers" comes up. A newbie will then wonder how to get back to the "Welcome to Stroll" tid. The person will look for a "back" button as in a "conventional" app, not realising one just needs to scroll down.

This is the kind of thing (though not only) that sent me running away from TW when I sniffed at it 5 years ago.

I will make that clearer, thanks!

On the "Using tiddlers" tid the "Activity" box (my 1st para above) telling people to open "Using tiddlers" also occurs: that does not make sense.

I will write something to warn users that the text will be repeated. Having the text NOT appear when it is the same tiddler will also not make sense to a new user.

---

Activity:

In the sidebar, open the tab with the big pink eyeball (). Click on the checkboxes there to see how they change the appearance of the link at the bottom of this tiddler.

I did not see anything change to the link when checking various check boxes.

Okay I will check this. Maybe in updating the tutorial I changed something and didn't update this

---

Now close this tiddler to return to the Stroll through Stroll tutorial.

When that tiddler is closed, the only one left open is the one with your name/my name. There is no tid open anymore with the column on the left. The Welcome or Stroll though Stroll can be picked up from the sidebar's Recent tab, but that's not obvious for a newbie.

I will check this, thanks

A tutorial, esp. one for a tool like TW/Stroll, needs to be a "taking by the hand and show you" kind of experience. Increasing the user base has been a big topic of late: one of the reasons it is not any bigger is because of the big difference with "conventional" apps, TW is quite confusing at 1st.

That is precisely why I am asking for feedback. This tutorial is WAY more "taking by the hand and show you" than other TW tutorials, but there are always issues to iron out.

---

Typo: To add all of Stroll to your own TiddlyWiki, drag the stroll tag pill linto ……

linto >> into

Good catch, thanks!

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2 May 2020, 22:19 by dgif...@crcna.org:

Hi everyone

I finally got around to updating Stroll (replacement for my TiddlyBlink). I think it is just about ready. Here is the link:

https://giffmex.org/experiments/stroll.experiment.html

Play with it until you find its flaws. Be merciless. Make it bleed. Then let me know what needs bandaging or amputating. You have one week.

Thanks in advance!

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[David Gifford]

Hi Ste

Yeah I need some kind of "Sorry, this is for people with REAL computers. Get off your phone" message. :-)

Also, thanks for the private message. The gmail address listed for that is not current, so I wasn' able to reply in the same way.

[David Gifford]

:-D

[David Gifford]

Hi Thomas!

On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 5:43:16 AM UTC-5, Thomas Elmiger wrote:

Hi David,

thanks a lot for your effort for making this accessible for starters, great stuff!

Thanks!

I only strolled halfways through your tutorial and have a few remarks:

A) Why did you duplicate existing buttons with different (also existing, but coloured) icons?

Screenshot from the Tools sidebar.

1) I have never liked the new journal icon. Just a personal thing. 2) I wanted to avoid modifying actual shadow tiddlers as much as possible. And since MY new journal also adds a backlink, it is not quite the same. So I cloned it and made the changes. 3) I didn't consider the duplication because I never use the tools tab, and didn't get the impression anyone actually uses that. I will have a look at that.

Apart from the stopwatch icon (that I contributed for the timestamp functionality of TW), there is no clue why a user should use one or the other.

Let the community know if you lack icons, maybe there are people willing to help.

B) Folded tiddlers still show the links section, is this by design? Using Highlights in Context that still needs a lot of space.

Ah! I fixed some but hadn't fixed Highlights or Transclude under sliders. I will fix those.

C) Wording on the eye tab: The word references is alredy in the title, so I think you could omit "Refs" and "Refs as" and optimise readability by NOT using all caps.

Will compare again and make a decision. I am torn in two about this choice. New users comprehension vs ease for constant use.

D) Two Columns intro, step 4: As a non native English reader I find it hard to understand sentences like "Click the [ | ] icon in the sidebar page controls multiple times to toggle between one and two columns." Maybe this could be shorter? "Click the [ | ] icon in the sidebar to toggle between one and two columns." (Doesn’t the word "toggle" imply you can switch and switch back using the same button?)

I will have a look, though actually you DO switch it off and on with the same button.

[Saq Imtiaz]

@Edgaras: you can drag and drop your old TW on to the new one, and choose which tiddlers to import.

[Saq Imtiaz]

Good stuff Dave. 

Tutorial feedback: 

I had a friend, who has never used TW before, walk through this. The only place she got stuck was accepting the autocomplete suggestions, she wanted to tab or press enter to accept. So that may require some more clarification. OK well, she did have to read the sentence about toggling through single and two story mode a few times, that could be simplified. She's a non-native though extremely fluent English speaker.

Stories plugin updates:

I will put out a small update next week fixing the issue with the divert button in edit mode and the zoomin storyview. It wont impact anything else, so you should just be able to drop in the updated Stories plugin.

I saw someone mention the idea of a live preview for editing, if you have the same tiddler open in both stories in edit and view mode.

Currently this wont work as the divert button in the edit template will open the original tiddler, and not the draft, in view mode in the other story. To the tiddlywiki internals, the actual tiddler and the draft tiddler are two different tiddlers.

You could set it up to just open the draft tiddler in view mode, but I haven't out of concerns about both performance and more so about rendering errors with incomplete lists and widgets etc as a user types. A quick tests shows it might be worth exploring and those issues might not be so bad. I wont have the time to get around to it anytime soon, I've added on to my list of things to look at, but if anyone else wants to take a crack at it that would be great! 

I too find it odd that you have two icons in the toolbar with different colors to the rest. Is this just for emphasis?

I do agree with Thomas on the wording in the eye tab, if anything I think its harder to read and understand now due to the redundancy and the abbreviation "Refs". The caps are jarring as well.

This could be one way to do it, it's easy enough for the user to try them and all and see how they look:

View references as:

- highlights in context

- simple links

- hidden

- transcluded

Regards,

Saq

[IlyaIlya]

Hi,

Can you make stroll into a plugin?

Currently I can use it but seeing that it's being updated frequently how do I update it efficiently?

Do I just drag the newest Stroll tag pill into my wiki (if so system tiddlers from outdated version will remain) or do I have to make a new wiki every time... that'd be insane

[David Gifford]

On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 6:34:27 AM UTC-5, Saq Imtiaz wrote:

Good stuff Dave. 

Tutorial feedback: 

I had a friend, who has never used TW before, walk through this. The only place she got stuck was accepting the autocomplete suggestions, she wanted to tab or press enter to accept. So that may require some more clarification. OK well, she did have to read the sentence about toggling through single and two story mode a few times, that could be simplified. She's a non-native though extremely fluent English speaker.

Nice! Very helpful to get non-TW user feedback!

Stories plugin updates:

I will put out a small update next week fixing the issue with the divert button in edit mode and the zoomin storyview. It wont impact anything else, so you should just be able to drop in the updated Stories plugin.

Ok, will look forward to that, thanks! Message me with the link.

I saw someone mention the idea of a live preview for editing, if you have the same tiddler open in both stories in edit and view mode.

Currently this wont work as the divert button in the edit template will open the original tiddler, and not the draft, in view mode in the other story. To the tiddlywiki internals, the actual tiddler and the draft tiddler are two different tiddlers.

I find it confusing that the same tiddler can be open twice. I see it as a bug, not a feature. If there would be a way to turn that off or make it an optional thing for advanced users, that would be preferable.

You could set it up to just open the draft tiddler in view mode, but I haven't out of concerns about both performance and more so about rendering errors with incomplete lists and widgets etc as a user types. A quick tests shows it might be worth exploring and those issues might not be so bad. I wont have the time to get around to it anytime soon, I've added on to my list of things to look at, but if anyone else wants to take a crack at it that would be great! 

I too find it odd that you have two icons in the toolbar with different colors to the rest. Is this just for emphasis?

Yes, for emphasis, and to break up a long row of grey icons. One gray section for tiddler tweaks (divert and fold), one blue section for new tiddlers, and one gray section for default controls.

I do agree with Thomas on the wording in the eye tab, if anything I think its harder to read and understand now due to the redundancy and the abbreviation "Refs". The caps are jarring as well.

Okay, two important voices have now weighed in, I will definitely change that.

This could be one way to do it, it's easy enough for the user to try them and all and see how they look:

View references as:

- highlights in context

- simple links

- hidden

- transcluded

Thanks Saq!

Regards,

Saq

[Saq Imtiaz]

Hi Dave

 

I find it confusing that the same tiddler can be open twice. I see it as a bug, not a feature. If there would be a way to turn that off or make it an optional thing for advanced users, that would be preferable.

You can turn it off in the control panel under Appearance -> Toolbars -> Edit Toolbar and just ship with the $:/config/EditToolbarButtons/Visibility/$:/_sq/Stories/divertTiddlerEditMacro tiddler that will be created.

Note that there are still multiple ways you can end up with the same tiddler in both stories (click and shift-click a tiddler link from the sidebar for example, or drag and drop on the Open sidebar). This is tricky to work around both because the solution to prevent this would be heavy-handed but also because it can be difficult to know what the correct behavior should be (close the first one? don't open the second? etc). Once there are people using this on a daily basisc, depending on any feedback around this issue, we can consider changes.

Regards,
Saq

[TonyM]

Saq,

When something is hard to fix make it into a feature. :) I am not kidding.

Perhaps a replacement edit Button could be created to respond like bob tiddlers pending save to the server do, an edit button that turns to a lock on currentTiddler when the draft of exists?

Regards

Tony

[Rohrreiniger]

I first thought it is a kind of fork till I found this most important information:

Thank you!

Best wishes

[Saq Imtiaz]

Tony: I actually do consider it a feature. My original audience for this was after all just myself and I've been happy with the behaviour for the last 2.5 years. It's much harder to know what will work for others, so at that point I tend to want to allow more flexibility until feedback emerges that points towards a narrower path.

I have played with multiple ideas when I first put this together. Don't open a tiddler in the second story if it's already open in the first, or close it in the first story and open in the second. In the end I found the current behaviour the most predictable myself. If a tiddler is not open in a story and you try to open it, it will do so irrespective of what is in the other story.

[JWHoneycutt]

I was looking into Roam, until this statement stopped me in my tracks:

• nonexclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, worldwide, transferable, sub-licenseable license to access, use, host, cache, store, reproduce, transmit, display, publish, distribute, modify and adapt and create derivative works (either alone or as part of a collective work) from your public Content.

This, effectively renders the following moot:

• Furthermore, while Roam has the technical ability to access private content, we agree to never... 

David, I LOVE "Stroll". Thank you.

I agree that the tutorial regarding freezing the story rivers caused me to lose my thread and have to dissect my way back to the tutorial flow.

JWHoneycutt

[Peter Buyze]

@JWHoneycutt: before returning to TW I looked at Roam too, and saw what you saw: amazing that anybody would be prepared to accept that kind of non-security, even if they "have nothing to hide". That's when I decided to embrace TW.

3 May 2020, 15:38 by jef...@whoo.ai:

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[Saq Imtiaz]

I suggest we simplify the UI for configuring the number of tiddlers allowed open in each story.

Here's a quick macro that can be built upon to create a nice UI for this in user friendly terms:

\define switchStoryView(storyview,default)

<$select tiddler='$storyview$' default='$default$'>

<option value="zoomin"><$text text='one tiddler only'/></option>

<option value="classic"><$text text='multiple tiddlers'/></option>

</$select>

\end

Left story: <<switchStoryView $:/view zoomin>>

Right story: <<switchStoryView $:/_sq/Stories/config/Story2-storyview classic>>

which will give you:

[TAV]

After importing my tiddlers from another wiki

Or after editing the title of a tiddler imported yesterday:

I see a link to $:/Import

There is also a

TiddlyBlinkFoldData 

tiddler keep appearing in my Recent tab

On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 2:19:53 AM UTC+7, David Gifford wrote:

[David Gifford]

Thanks TAV, I fixed it.

[David Gifford]

Thanks Saq. This is great. With this snippet, I don't know that I need any changes to your plugin.

I look forward to watching you in the Hangout tonight!

[David Gifford]

Hi everyone

I just updated https://giffmex.org/experiments/stroll.experiment.html, incorporating most of your changes.

List of changes:

List of changes accessible on the welcome page.

Problem:

I have Stroll set up to exclude system tiddlers from the list of references at the bottom of tiddlers (for example see the [!is[system]] in the list filter of https://giffmex.org/experiments/stroll.experiment.html#%24%3A%2F.giffmex%2FViewTemplate%2Frefslinks).

But when I create a link to a non-system tiddler within a system tiddler, the system tiddler shows up in the list of references at the bottom of the non-systerm tiddler. Could someone look at my code and help me spot why that is happening?

Recommendations I did not do for this revision

• Ilya - Make it a plugin (will get someone to help me with this after any more recommended changes are in place)
  
• TonyM - option to disable it from going back to one story when only one tiddler is open (Saq may wish to consider this for his plugin. That is not something I can do)
  
• TonyM - Explain saving options better (I think this needs to happen in tiddlywiki.com)
  
• Edgaras - Back and forth arrows to navigate to previously visited tiddlers (Not sure how to do this, but also not keen on doing it for Stroll. There might be a plugin for it here that you could add to Stroll: https://dynalist.io/d/zUP-nIWu2FFoXH-oM7L7d9DM#z=daq3QPYxpdVcebRQi2N6gc8A

Thank you

A HUGE thank you to everyone who made recommendations or spotted problems. I asked you to be merciless, and you guys came through.

If you see anything else that needs fixing, please let me know. The revised version may now have quirks of its own.

Blessings!

[David Gifford]

Bump.

[Saq Imtiaz]

Do you find the Tools tab in the sidebar to be something you use often? If not, suggest moving it under "More".

The "eye" tab could be under the gear/settings tab too. Depends on how important access to that is in your workflow.

[TonyM]

Dave,

Re the saving issue?

Do you mean this;

On Sunday, 3 May 2020 21:52:56 UTC+10, Saq Imtiaz wrote:

 Then I said this

When something is hard to fix make it into a feature. :) I am not kidding.
Perhaps a replacement edit Button could be created to respond like bob tiddlers pending save to the server do, an edit button that turns to a lock on currentTiddler when the draft of exists?

Since you asked

• TonyM - Explain saving options better (I think this needs to happen in tiddlywiki.com)

Here I will Explain,

I have already created what I call a conditional edit button, basically I hide the default edit button in the More Buttons (uncheck in Toolbar) , then check my conditional edit button. 

• The conditional edit button for example can be displayed on regular tiddlers, but not system tiddlers, or dashboard tiddlers etc... this makes the interface simpler for users by not offering edit on tiddlers they should not edit.

My Suggestion, ask if you want it.

• I could take the same conditional edit and tell it not to display the edit button if the current tiddler exists as a draft.of or some other condition
• Or rather than not display at all, display a lock icon

Would this help for stroll?

Regards

Tony

 

[David Gifford]

Hi TonyM

No, the 'saving issue' was the request for me to explain the various saving options for TiddlyWiki in the tutorial. My response was that I don't know enough about most of those saving options, and that there is talk of cleaning that up on tiddlywiki.com anyway.

And, I may have confused you and Tony K on that detail.

Thanks for the offer of the conditional edit button. I will think about that.

I am no longer concerned about the system tiddlers showing up in the references section. I have no system tiddlers referencing anything in the tutorial. And users are not likely to link to regular tids from system tids. So it should not be an issue.

Blessings, Dave

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[David Gifford]

Hi Saq

Thanks for the additional feedback

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 9:09 AM Saq Imtiaz <saq.i...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do you find the Tools tab in the sidebar to be something you use often? If not, suggest moving it under "More".

While I personally have only used the tools tab rarely, I am loathe to change more of the layout of TiddlyWiki just based on personal preferences. No need to hide things needlessly for those that use them.

The "eye" tab could be under the gear/settings tab too. Depends on how important access to that is in your workflow.

I envision the eye tab being used frequently by users. I know I use it frequently. The items in the gear tab are advanced options I envision will be used infrequently. They could almost go in the control panel in a tab. But I think it is okay as is.

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