Tiddlyspot down ... gone?

[Mark S.]

The message displayed at tiddlyspot doesn't inspire great confidence. They seem to be offering to sell the site.

[Ste]

Oh bugger! 

Eeep.

Let's hope it's a temporary thing! 

....

[Eric Shulman]

On Friday, October 23, 2020 at 12:44:47 PM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:

The message displayed at tiddlyspot doesn't inspire great confidence. They seem to be offering to sell the site.

It looks like DreamHost has re-initialized their servers, and the tiddlyspot.com *account* is still defined,

but doesn't have any content.  Hopefully, this is just a matter of reloading the content from their nightly backups,

and is not a more serious problem.

I know it was all working earlier today when I last updated one of my tiddlyspot-hosted TW projects.

-e

[Eric Shulman]

I've sent email directly to Simon and Daniel Baird to let them know about the problem.

Hopefully they can get DreamHost to restore the content from a backup.

-e

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Eric

Just FYI, I host on Dreamhost for all my domains.

There are some issues on this recent update by DH that are affecting many. Its quite a radical update.

I'm sure it will come right.

Best

TT

[Chuck R.]

I just checked and tiddlyspot is down for me also.

[Eric Shulman]

On Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 1:40:41 AM UTC-7, Eric Shulman wrote:

I've sent email directly to Simon and Daniel Baird to let them know about the problem.

I just received a reply from Simon Baird... and he says: "It's not a simple fix".

Here's his blogspot posting explaining the situation: http://tiddlyspot.blogspot.com

-e

[Chuck R.]

"The future of Tiddlyspot is unclear." That's unfortunate because I really liked Tiddlyspot and used it a lot. I did my own local backups about once a week, so I didn't lose that much really. Never count on that online stuff to be there forever.

Thanks for that blog link with the update, Eric. I use Bluehost.com if that helps. They support a lot of options, programs, databases, etc.

[Jan]

Hostnightmare I would say....
I hoped you all did your backups better than me :o .
There is still no sigh of life...

Best wishes Jan

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/8947104d-ccb8-482b-9401-1b84ff940314o%40googlegroups.com.

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Eric

I will write to Dreamhost about this immediately.

TT

[Hans Wobbe]

Ciao TT:

I gather you are a fan of DreamHost.  If you have a moment I would appreciate a brief comment on how easy/difficult it might be to set up a personal account that could host a single TW file.

I've browsed their site a bit and it looks appealing, but I could not find anything that reassures me specifically with respect to TW.

Cheers,

Hans

[amreus]

I downloaded 128 public tiddlyspot wikis about a week ago.  They were for my personal use and I wasn't planning on sharing them, but would make them available if the site doesn't come back.  Hopefully the site can be restored. I've attached the list I have.

[dvainw...@gmail.com]

I'm hoping the data can be recovered.  I had a couple of tiddlywikis I used on a nearly daily basis that would be very difficult to recreate from scratch.

[Mat]

If this is not recovered, then this is an absolute disaster for me. Please note that on http://tiddlyspot.blogspot.com/ Simon Baird requests that we contact him:

"I don't have a good sense of how many people are using it actively now and how many would miss it if it were gone. So, if you are seriously impacted by Tiddlyspot being unavailable, please let me know how and why. " 

I contacted Simon and he encouragingly replied that he will attempt to resolve it. Still, I am nervous that people count on others to signal how important this is so not enough people make it clear, so do just send a note to Simon. (Tell me if you don't have his email. Some other contact info can be found here.)

@amreus wrote:

I downloaded 128 public tiddlyspot wikis about a week ago.

Much appreciated @amreus. I note a few of my creations on your list so if this is not resolved I will contact you. Thank you.

<:-)

[Chuck R.]

> If you have a moment I would appreciate a brief comment on how easy/difficult it might be to set up a personal account that could host a single TW file.

I believe it would be very difficult to do without special programming. Site hosts normally require you to use their own uploader software to upload changed files, and TW doesn't do that. I will give it a try on my host though and see if I can make and save changes to a TW file there.

On Saturday, October 24, 2020 at 11:53:11 AM UTC-4 hww...@gmail.com wrote:

[Chuck R.]

> I will give it a try on my host though and see if I can make and save changes to a TW file there.

Update: When I hit the TW save button, TW tries to save the button locally, not on my host.

[Birthe C]

In the middle of the depression over the losses on tiddlyspot, I managed to save 3 of my wikies...I would hate to loose the most. My laptop had not been used for 2 weeks, but when I opened it I realised it was on hibernation, so sure enough it opened with the browser and the TWspot tabs open - so I was able to save them from browser memory without refreshing. That has calmed me down a bit for now.

Backups...sure, only problem my external hard drive with the backups broke a couple of days ago.

We have been lucky to be able to use tiddlyspot for so long.

Birthe

[Mark S.]

You would need to set up something like store.php or tw-receiver on the site. It would be interesting to know how large the tiddlyspot collection was (is?) . I'm guessing when it hit a certain size it triggered an internal Dreamhost audit.

[Ste]

Might be time to rent a pi and get bob-ing

https://www.mythic-beasts.com/

Here is hoping they get things back up. 

The wayback machine is also good for getting that tiddlyspot that's not been updated for 

a while but is still usefull. 

Less good for last weeks updates. :(

[Eric Thompson]

Any chance this is recoverable with the way back machine?

On Friday, October 23, 2020 at 3:44:47 PM UTC-4 Mark S. wrote:

[Eric Pavey]

@amreus  :  Looks like you've downloaded several of mine: I have backups, but yours are much more recent:  If you would email me at 'warpcat at gmail dot com', I can provide you the list:  Would be super awesome if you could forward me that data.  Much appreciated.

I've been using the site weekly (sometimes daily) since around 2007, so seeing it 'just vaporize' is painful.

[Alvin]

I never had a problem with TiddlySpot not being up to date—it did the job, for which I am very grateful. Thank you, Daniel!

Two of my TiddlySpot files constitute my online brain, which I accessed and modified almost daily, and I have three more that were simply projects.  If I can get the most current versions it would be wonderful.

[TW Tones]

Folks Simon et all

Although I do not know how to set up my own tiddlyspot, I wanted to contact Simon to offer my own hosting (cpanel/apache) but even http://tiddlyspot.blogspot.com/  is not live. 

My host although in Australia, international cloud flare CDN should make this practical from my host.

Any Suggestions?

I have a few personally, somewhat neglected tiddlyspots, and can live without them, but over the years a lot of great solutions were documented on tiddlyspot sites, I would hate to see them lost.

The key questions are?

• Is there a fairly recent backup?
• What is its total size?
• What technologies does it need?
• Would it be easy to bring up elsewhere?
• Can we find a way to mirror it to avoid loss.

Feel free to send a private message with contact info for Simon if you have it.

Regards

Tones

[Joshua Fontany]

Wow, that sucks. Cool to see the community try to mitigate the damage...

Best of luck,
Joshua F 

[kuzi]

Hi all, just in case you're not aware, the Internet Archive may have a copy of some sites stored within the last month or two. Not the most recent but better than nothing I would imagine. It's worth a try: https://web.archive.org/web/20201013022309/http://tiddlyspot.com/

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

Quick update. I host several sites at DH. I'm having similar issues on some of them too.

The issues with TiddlySpot should not be seen in isolation, there are several different things going on.

A specific issue with TiddlySpot, linked to by Eric, is outlined here: http://tiddlyspot.blogspot.com/

and is likely related to what DH see as the right mechanism for "backups."

FWIW, I think DH, right now, are overwhelmed with support requests. They haven't replied to mine yet of two days ago.

Best wishes

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Hans

Well, given current issues at DH, I'm reserving the right to withdraw these comments :-).

+++ All I can say now, as a reasonably priced hosting service I used for about a decade, they are good on being able to set stuff up, good on support.

Good management console. Good knowledge base.

--- Performance (page load speed) can be an issue if you accept defaults, which I think TiddlySpot did. Can be sluggish on load. However there are options to improve it easily.

Best wishes

TT

[Mark S.]

It doesn't pay to get too attached to any company. What I learned the hard way on my own site was that a service can be sold overnight and change completely. This is why I currently pay by the half year even though it's more expensive. When you change, and are forced to cancel, you'll forfeit everything you paid.

A company that doesn't respond in two days to a customer doesn't sound like a good company.

It would be really interesting to know how much space the tiddlyspot project was taking. I notice that DisasterHost doesn't specify how much disk space you're allowed. But obviously, there has to be a limit of some kind.

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

A company that doesn't respond in two days to a customer doesn't sound like a good company.

Yeah. This is the first time. 

It would be really interesting to know how much space the tiddlyspot project was taking. I notice that DisasterHost doesn't specify how much disk space you're allowed. But obviously, there has to be a limit of some kind.

Interesting. But AFTER the fact. IF I had known  before that TiddlySpot was on Dreamhost I would have asked "why is it so slow on load"? 

I didn't so I didn't.

TT

[klein...@googlemail.com]

Hello,

I just saw the disaster :-O

My wiki with a lot of knowledge is gone... And saved nowhere else...

But... really unbeleavable luckily... I saw now, that you, amreus, saved my wiki.

@amreus, I cannot write a private message. If you can write one to me, could you please be so nice to tell me your mail-adress? So I could write you then my mail-adress for getting my wiki from you??

That would be an unbeleavable luck!!!!

Thanks a lot in advance!!!

And then...: Is there any other possibility to upload a TW for public use?

Surya

[springer]

Without tiddlyspot, my entire workflow and teaching routine is upended.

 

I've developed dozens of wikis at tiddlyspot (2005(?)-2020), with only spotty backups. I have shared various permalinks for work purposes (usually thrilled to be able to share a link to something I can continue to improve, rather than sending a static file!), so it's also a professional embarrassment to have those links go dead.

(You all saw me lots over the summer, but my in-semester workload is heavy. So I'm logging in here only because of the tiddlyspot crisis. I'll be anxiously hovering here, and at Simon's blog, for the foreseeable future. ;) Best regards to you all...)

-Springer

[Eric Shulman]

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 7:52:50 PM UTC-7, springer wrote:

Without tiddlyspot, my entire workflow and teaching routine is upended.

 

I've developed dozens of wikis at tiddlyspot (2005(?)-2020), with only spotty backups. I have shared various permalinks for work purposes (usually thrilled to be able to share a link to something I can continue to improve, rather than sending a static file!), so it's also a professional embarrassment to have those links go dead.

You *might* be able to find copies of some of your tiddlyspots using the Wayback Machine (https://web.archive.org/)

The copies might be somewhat older than your most recent tiddlyspot updates, but it's worth a try.

-e

[Atronoush Parsi]

Hi Springer,

 I am sorry to hear that! Yes, one expects at least an announcement a month in advance to let users take their data from tiddlyspot server.

By the way, for quick setting up another online wikis, I may recommend GitHub while you have not your own web server/host.

See

https://kookma.github.io/Tiddlywiki-and-GitHub-Pages/

https://kookma.github.io/TW5-GitHub-Saver/

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/1cd82921-cf81-4f75-8b03-0f4589b3aeb0n%40googlegroups.com.

[TW Tones]

Surya

In the google forum if you reply privately to author, it will send them an email, if they reply they are "giving you the email address".

Best not to share email addresses in posts because sometimes bad players harvest them for ~ enlargement spam.

Regards

Tones

[amreus]

@surya - I looked at the file I had named surya-diy for contact information. I found it had the gcomments plugin installed so I posted my email through that.  I wonder if it could possibly have worked?

On Monday, October 26, 2020 at 7:02:01 PM UTC-4 Surya wrote:

[Mat]

Everyone who uses TS should contact Simon as he requests (until he says otherwise) to convey the width of how many that are affected by this and that it's worth fighting for. He has generously been hosting this for us all these years but my interpretation is he is not personally affected by this, so please don't reason that "oh, surely others have already talked to him" because even if a few have then it doesn't convey what a disaster this is.

A quick calculation indicates I have thousands(!) of hours of invested work on TS, including a lot of stuff intended to be published for the community one day.

 

<:-)

[André Carvalho]

It seems that DreamHost is holding our data hostage... https://tiddlyspot.blogspot.com/

I would not recommend doing any sort of business with them. I will use any means at my disposal to make this aggressive ( and most probably unlawful ) behavior from DreamHost public and discourage all my contacts from making business with them.

@DreamHost : I want MY data!

[kuzi]

> It seems that DreamHost is holding our data hostage

They took it down because the "site consists of "personal backups" and hence violates their terms of use". It doesn't sound like they are asking for a ransom.

> I will use any means at my disposal to make this aggressive ( and most probably unlawful ) behavior from DreamHost public

While it sucks, there is really nothing unlawful about this. Any provider could do this if they wanted, there are no 'legal' rights to access the data stored on their servers. I'd guess that this was an automated system that flagged TS for the violation. The fact that the site was moved into their backup storage and not just deleted seems to show some good faith, and a reasonable chance that they could at least get a copy of the data back.

[Mat]

André Carvalho wrote:

I will use any means at my disposal to make this aggressive ( and most probably unlawful ) behavior from DreamHost public and discourage all my contacts from making business with them.

Do you actually have "means at your disposal" that can affect things in a positive direction? That would probably mean legal means or powerful contacts working for you. Because a strategy consisting of empty threats or curses would, at most, annoy some administrator who rather than becoming cooperative becomes insulted and vindicative. That could make things even worse, for all of us.

Hopefully Simon can report any kind of news soon.

<:-)

[André Carvalho]

There is, at least, a violation of good-faith and a right of accessing my data under EU law that I'll exercise if there is no other solution.

[Mat]

André Carvalho wrote:

There is, at least, a violation of good-faith and a right of accessing my data under EU law that I'll exercise if there is no other solution.

OK. Let's just see what they reply to Simon first. I just noted he apparently updated his blogpost (at very end) now stating:

Update, Oct 25: I have a support ticket open at Dreamhost to request access to the data. The ticket number is #9255564. 

<:-) 

[Eric Shulman]

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 7:18:47 AM UTC-7, André Carvalho wrote:

There is, at least, a violation of good-faith and a right of accessing my data under EU law that I'll exercise if there is no other solution.

In keeping with the "I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the Internet" theme...

While you might feel that you have some rights in this situation, there is no binding contract between yourself and DreamHost, and they have no legal obligation to provide *you* with any "right of access" to the data stored on their systems.

In contrast, Simon and Daniel Baird *are* the actual "customers of record" in that they are the ones who have paid for the service, and if they were denied access to the data, then they might have a legal cause of action.

However... they haven't been *denied* access to the data... it has just been moved to a "DreamObject", which is a DreamHost cloud storage product (https://www.dreamhost.com/cloud/storage/) that  be accessed "utilizing a wide range of applications", as described here:

https://www.dreamhost.com/cloud/what-apps-are-compatible-with-dreamobjects/

-e

[Mat]

Good news update from Simon on the blog! Things are not quite solved but it's a huge step in the right direction.

<:-)

[Alvin Orzechowski]

I'm holding my breath.  Thank you to everyone who helped get the files back.

Lesson learned: Backup often. Fortunately I had a backup from July, so I was able to function.

My brain is flooded with ideas about a followup discussion(s). What do you think?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/GDFdlZ9Yd8s/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/355b0d2e-fffd-447b-aeaa-e698a00be46en%40googlegroups.com.

[Mark S.]

There needs to be a way to activate TWO savers. So, for instance, you could save to tiddlyspot (or any replacement) and simultaneously download a copy to your local download directory. That way people wouldn't have to consciously remember to copy their cloud-based TW periodically, though they would need to remember to delete backup copies -- unless of course the 2nd saver was something like timimi, which will trim for you. 

The problem with convenient systems is that ... they're too darn convenient.

[Mark S.]

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 8:02:46 AM UTC-7, Eric Shulman wrote:

On Tuesday, October 27, 2020 at 7:18:47 AM UTC-7, André Carvalho wrote:

There is, at least, a violation of good-faith and a right of accessing my data under EU law that I'll exercise if there is no other solution.

In keeping with the "I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the Internet" theme...

Continuing your "not a lawyer" theme, DH is a California company, so it's likely EU laws won't apply. Even Prop 24 doesn't seem to provide "data guaranteed" rights.

Having read the Wikipedia page, I'm really hoping this is just a fluke. They went to bat to fight for their customer's privacy rights, moving them into the "good guy" category. Of course, maybe they wrote the wikipedia page ;-)

[Surya]

Hi :-)))))))

@TW Tones: I know... But I couldn't reply privately to amreus- that possibility is grey for me :-(

But he found, how he can contact me :-)

And, @amreus- it worked :-))))) I got your adress and replied just now.

So, I am really really happy for now!!

But after that, is there no other possibility for uploading a TW?? I guess not, otherwise someone had written it here already...

Good luck to all!

Surya

[TW Tones]

Surya,

Independent from tiddlyspot.

If you have a php apache server you can upload and share tiddlywiki's as simple files. If you want to edit on line you can use tw-receiver.

Other use dropbox, one drive etc... I use sharepoint, some use AWS and there are more.

Regards

Tones

Regards

Tones

[Eric Shulman]

On Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 4:08:56 PM UTC-7, FFT wrote:

Site is working once again.

Note that TiddlySpot is currently READ-ONLY.

You can access your TiddlySpot site(s), but you cannot save any updates to TiddlySpot.  In addition, neither the download link (e.g. http://mysite.tiddlyspot.com/download) nor the backup directory (e.g. http://mysite.tiddlyspot.com/backup) are available.

To save a local copy of your TiddlySpot site, open the $:/ControlPanel "Saving", "TiddlySpot Saver" tab and clear the Wiki Name and/or Password input.  Then, when you press the save button in the sidebar, it will trigger the TWCore standard "Download Saver" handling.

-e

[Ste]

Well thats some good news!

[Surya]

@TW Tones: Thanks for your tips!

[john.edw...@gmail.com]

Glad to get a local copy saved, I was having tiddlyspace flashbacks.  Thanks to Simon and Daniel Baird for working to get it back to the state to allow saving a copy.

[springer]

Tones and all,

I'd love to hear from others if there's any cloud storage that offers as much portability as tiddlyspot.

If I'm on a public or institutional computer (like a library kiosk with a browser, or a university's lecture-hall computer), it seems dropbox can't work, because dropbox requires me to download the file before it can be properly loaded in a browser (and these institutional machines are not friendly to downloads).

I assume that's equally true of these other cloud solutions like sharepoint and AWS, yes? (Like dropbox, they may have one-click ways to "preview" html files, but not to actually open them.)

Is there any solution besides tiddlyspot that can work well in such situations -- at LEAST for read access on the road, if not for editing -- and that doesn't require me to have an Apache server at my disposal?

-Springer

[springer]

Ah, I'm just following up with something I learned some months ago (but then forgot): TiddlyDrive makes it fairly friction-free to launch tiddlywiki files from within the google drives interface, IF using Chrome. 

So (pending further tests) I hope that as long as a kiosk/institutional computer is running Chrome (and not prohibiting pop-ups?), I can load any TW5 projects stored on google drive.

That's how I'll try to roll, until and unless someone offers a better (more seamless) suggestion.

-Springer

[Birthe C]

maybe you could use https://twcloud.github.io/

It works well with dropbox and Firefox.

Birthe

[springer]

(OK, so it seems Tiddly Drive may work for personal TW5 portability even in institutional settings... BUT Tiddly Drive still is not a professional way to point *others* seamlessly to the whole project or permalink/permaview (tiddlyspot url links, how I will miss you!), since the google drive link presumably would not function for someone who doesn't have both google drive and TiddlyDrive, and we'd need to coach recipients through download-and-open-and-find, and/or using the "open with ... Tiddly Drive" dropdown.)

[springer]

Thanks, Strikke! 

I wrote my follow-up about the "personal-only" nature of the Tiddly Drive solution before seeing your note about twcloud. I'll check out twcloud as well.

Presumably twcloud is analogous to Tiddly Drive and has the same limitations, yes?  (= Good for personal use, but doesn't double as web host, doesn't offer permalink url convenience?)

-Springer

[Mark S.]

You can set up saving with github and also github pages and then have a system that works very similar to TS. BUT (there's always a "but") it's more complicated to set up in the first place and you should set up the saver to use a personal access token and not your GH password. That token will be long and tedious to enter when you are at a guest computer that won't let you access a USB device. Hmm ... I guess if you have something like Google Drive you can use it to store your passcode so you don't have to type it all by hand.

[AndrewMc]

Eric, is there an equivalent way to download TW classic (2.x) wikis?

Cheers, Andrew Mc

[Eric Shulman]

On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 10:54:01 PM UTC-7, AndrewMc wrote:

is there an equivalent way to download TW classic (2.x) wikis?

Prior to the recent TiddlySpot crisis, the normal way to download a copy of your TiddlySpot

was to go to http://yoursite.tiddlyspot.com/download

However, the download link is not currently available.

As a work-around:

1) open your TiddlySpot (e.g., http://yoursite.tiddlyspot.com)

2) create a new tiddler containing:

[[click me|http://yoursite.tiddlyspot.com]]

3) *right click* on the "click me" link that is displayed

4) Choose "Save link as..."

5) If your browser is set to "always ask where to save", then you can choose a local folder and enter a destination filename

Note that "save link as..." is not the same function as "save as..."

-e

[amreus]

Quick command line backup:

> curl http://yoursite.tiddlyspot.com > yoursite.html

curl is available on most operating systems by default, including Windows.

[Jed Carty]

It isn't ready yet, but my plan is to get the secure server version of Bob set up as something like an alternative to tiddlyspot.

There is a lot of work to do before it is ready for public use. My brother and I have been using it for Ooktech work for over a year, but we are able to set everything up manually.

The main problem is that I need to update the login part and that there isn't any UI for adding new accounts or setting up access controls to individual wikis.

Another problem is that I have no desire to manage a system like that. I think that it would work best as a community project that takes donations to cover server costs and maybe paying a person/some people to spend a few hours a month doing maintenance.

I don't know if it would fill exactly the same need as tiddlyspot, but it could help if there is interest.

[André Carvalho]

Thank You Simon and Daniel!
I got my data back. And yes, I'll backup more often ;)
You have a very nice service with TiddlySpot and I would not mind to pay a reasonable fee to help maintaining and developing it.

Best regards

André de Carvalho

PS: Continuing the "not a lawyer..." before I got hooked on software I did studied Law up to the 4th year in a 5 year course in Coimbra University ;)

The facts are :

- that if DreamHost didn't provide Simon and Daniel access to the DreamObject they would become "Controllers" of the information

- the information contains personal data of mine (name, e-mail, personal thoughts, opinions and facts)

- Article 15 ( https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32016R0679&from=EN#d1e2513-1-1 ) grants me the right of access

- the jurisdiction issue is arguable (US company, EU person, EU data, transnational facts, ...)  Preamble (23) extends controller obligations to non EU entities

I would not say this is the worst case I saw .... but in fact I didn't studied it properly...

Just saying... not trying to start any flame here especially with guys from whom I've already learned a lot.

[Alvin]

What André said about paying a fee.  I concur, although "reasonable" means something different to those of us on a fixed income.

[Alvin]

Didn't know about Curl.  Thank you.

The "Save Page As..." option in the Firefox "File" pull-down menu not only saves the file, but also a folder with an htm file and an urchin.js file. I don't know enough to know if they're important, but before this I was able to bring up my TiddlySpot files locally without them.

[André Carvalho]

Follow Eric guideline above and it shall work with Classic

[Eric Shulman]

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 9:33:02 AM UTC-7, Alvin wrote:

The "Save Page As..." option in the Firefox "File" pull-down menu not only saves the file, but also a folder with an htm file and an urchin.js file. I don't know enough to 

know if they're important, but before this I was able to bring up my TiddlySpot files locally without them.

Don't use the  "Save Page As..." command!  This saves the currently loaded file which, because of the dynamic nature of TiddlyWiki, can be *different* from the file stored on the server.  Use the steps I outlined, where you create a *link* with the URL for the current HTML file, and then use RIGHT CLICK on that link to get a popup menu.  Then select "Save LINK as..." to download that URL, without loading it into the browser.

-e

[Alvin Orzechowski]

Thank you for all your help, Eric.

I didn't understand "open the $:/ControlPanel "Saving", "TiddlySpot Saver" tab "  I'm chasing my tail looking for $:/ControlPanel.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/GDFdlZ9Yd8s/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/091c2b3f-439d-40c2-8dcb-996119ed0ffbo%40googlegroups.com.

[Eric Shulman]

On Friday, October 30, 2020 at 10:59:53 AM UTC-7, Alvin wrote:

Thank you for all your help, Eric.

I didn't understand "open the $:/ControlPanel "Saving", "TiddlySpot Saver" tab "  I'm chasing my tail looking for $:/ControlPanel.

The $:/ControlPanel instructions only apply if you are using TW5 on TiddlySpot.

If you are still using TWClassic, then the "create a link, right click, choose "Save link as..." procedure is the one to use.

-e

[Alvin Orzechowski]

Ah, the scales drop, and I see the light.  Yes, I'm using TWclassic, Eric.  Thanx for enlightening me.


Shalom, Salaam,
Be well,

Alvin
“Don't piss off old people. The older we get, the less 'life in prison' is a deterrent.” ~seen on a t-shirt

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/GDFdlZ9Yd8s/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/a4a1cfea-3dbd-4ec9-b9eb-ae47eeffc22fo%40googlegroups.com.

[springer]

Amreus, thanks for this curl tip (which I used with MacOS terminal).
With over a dozen tiddlyspot sites, I was able to crank out these backups, and your tip will be useful for other purposes too!

-Springer

[amreus]

An important addendum to using `curl` - be sure to check the downloaded files.  If a wiki is not available, curl will simply save the "not found" page instead of the actual wiki.

[springer]

Birthe (or others who run TiddlyWiki Cloud), 

TiddlyWiki Cloud sounds perfect for me, since I live out of dropbox and often run Firefox.

But after trying to set up on Firefox, and successfully authenticating for dropbox, I get a TiddlyWiki5 in the Sky page that seems to hang on "Loading 48..." (and double-clicking from dropbox site gets me the superficial html preview rather than a proper load)

I understand you're not the tech support, but the links for @Arlen22* support land me in the github wilderness... 

There are various instructions at https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer but they presume much more confidence with command-line skills than I have...

If you (or others) have tips for troubleshooting, I'd be most grateful!

-Springer

On Thursday, October 29, 2020 at 6:16:41 PM UTC-4 strikke...@gmail.com wrote:

[springer]

+1 here for "I'd gladly pay for Tiddlyspot!" 

Of course, if there's a pricing structure being hammered out, I'd vote for allowing trial interval, and/or up to ??MB worth of TW storage, for free. 

For my own purposes, though, tiddlyspot has been such a game-changer that I'd not only pay, but even pay fair "back rent" for the server costs associated with my TW 5projects. (This is saying a lot, given my own lack of disposable income!) The convenience of a url-based, password-protectable, auto-backup TW5 system has become something I really don't know how to be productive without. 

(As noted a few months back, I've also been lobbying for mountable access to a university web server, but IT seems to treat TW5 with suspicion, and wants to sell me on some other "approved" platform for my tasks.)

-Springer

[Birthe C]

Springer,

To be sure, I just tested https://twcloud.github.io/

again clicking the link tw5-dropbox it opens the page TiddlyWiki5 in the Sky using Dropbox, I selected full dropbox acces, logged in and got a overview of my files. The TW files i can open are marked with yellow background. I click the file I want and it opens, I can edit and save it.

I never went directly to the dropbox site.

I am running on Linux Mint 20 using Firefox 82.02

I am relieved now, for a minute you got me scared we had lost that possibility also. Other than that I am afraid I am not able to help you.

Birthe

[springer]

Birthe, thanks for clarifying that the access should be *through* the "TiddlyWiki5 in the Sky" page (so, not analogous to TiddlyDrive's process). 

So, there must be something that's supposed to resolve (and that does resolve for you), where I'm getting stuck on the the "Loading..." message.
Thanks for the follow-up!

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 5:22:59 PM UTC-4 strikke... wrote:

Springer,

To be sure, I just tested https://twcloud.github.io/

again clicking the link tw5-dropbox it opens the page TiddlyWiki5 in the Sky using Dropbox, I selected full dropbox acces, logged in and got a overview of my files. The TW files i can open are marked with yellow background. I click the file I want and it opens, I can edit and save it....

[Birthe C]

Springer,

Did you try to select the dropbox link...the newer one. It is described as only working on Chrome, but I found that it also worked for me on Firefox.

Birthe

[springer]

Birthe, I really appreciate your continued help. 

Alas, on either browser (FF or Chrome), using either of the top 2 twcloud links, the process is held up at the point of loading my dropbox. 

If it's just me, there must be something about my dropbox (perhaps how many files, or their size, or the length of filenames, or use of characters can't be parsed by twcloud)? 

I'm curious whether other mac users have trouble, since MacOS does tend to be more lenient with filenames. If I were sure of the diagnosis, I might spend the time required to dive in and clean up, but not if it's just a guess...

I'm not sure how much time to pour into troubleshooting, but I'll stay tuned in case anyone has ideas. 

[springer]

Aha!  FOLDER-level access works! (I had been trying FULL access to dropbox directories.)

Provided I'm willing to toss all my TW5 projects into the "TW5 in the Sky (Arlen22)" folder (generated by twcloud), twcloud behaves as Birthe describes; my TW5 files appear, highlighted in yellow, and they seem to open, and even to save and sync immediately with my desktop dropbox directory, properly.

I hope this proves helpful to others!

-Springer

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 6:04:46 PM UTC-4 strikke...@gmail.com wrote:

[Alvin Orzechowski]

What are the TiddlySpot options now?

I have several ClassicTWs there, two of them especially are my online-brain, and I have them downloaded.

I suppose there's some way to keep using them locally, but I'd rather take them back online.

I had a bad experience with Dropbox, and I'd like to avoid it.

If I got a website (domain and hosting), how do I put them there?

Any and all ideas are welcome.  Thank you.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/GDFdlZ9Yd8s/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/cfa4c82c-4c45-4557-b851-68c9d1f22f6fn%40googlegroups.com.

[TiddlyTweeter]

Since Tiddlyspot was a favor to us. Free. We need to ask its makers very humbly.

The reality may be that it is gone. 

I think the owners of it done more than usual to freely support us a long time.

Practically it would be useful to continue it.

HOW is still open.

Best wishes

TT

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to tiddl...@googlegroups.com.

[springer]

TiddlyTweeter, and all,

I have enduring gratitude for what Simon and Daniel put together, and what Tiddlyspot offered.

My own question -- and I think the spirit of Alvin's post, as I read it -- is: Is there not any way for something comparable to be put together and supported, even if DreamHost is not amenable, and even if Simon and Daniel have other priorities?

The more I explore alternatives to tiddlyspot, the more I'm coming up short. Tiddlyspot "had it all" for those of us who want to make multiple sites publicly available (just post the link in a chat, say, or meet someone in an elevator and give them a scribbled url), need to be able to edit from multiple locations (including computers/kiosks without software or storage privileges) AND who live/work in the projects enough for the seamless edit-save-publish workflow (with effortlessly organized backups tucked out of the way, to boot!) to make all the difference. 

I am tremendously appreciative of the work that Simon and Daniel put into making tiddlyspot happen. I wish I had the skills (and whatever time and money it takes) to contribute something that could begin to be a worthy successor to tiddlyspot, if the original tiddlyspot itself must fade away.

-Springer

[Mark S.]

It would be useful, if, as one last favor, Simon and Daniel could share the code they use for their site. I'm sure it's some variation of store.php, but the details are important.

[TW Tones]

Folks,

I was prepared to consider hosting another instance of tiddlyspot, but I do need help and first and foremost get an idea of size and traffic, and placing a CDN on it.

Regards

Tony

[Alvin Orzechowski]

I would be happy to foot the bill for another hosting site. Smon and Daniel could then move the files there, and redirect the name server. Should be simple. But I need to know the storage requirements.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/GDFdlZ9Yd8s/unsubscribe.

To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/16d5f7d0-9571-4def-8040-6b034bc8830fo%40googlegroups.com.

[Alfonso Arciniega]

Below is shown an option with Dropbox and DropPages. It could be used as a temporary option if we don't want to spend a lot of time setting up a repository site until TW Tones creates a permanent site.

It took me just a few minutes to create it. No code is required.

My demo site is at: https://my-tw-notes.droppages.com/

The DropPages site is at: https://droppages.com/

Note I did not use any theme, just edited the base.html to change the tittle and the index.txt for content, and add a couple of TW's in the Public folder.

This option is free for up to 50 MB size, good enough for five TW's. DropPages has been operating since 2011.

[Hans Wobbe]

Alfonso:

Thank you for sharing this 'droppages' option.

It was indeed just a few minutes to set it up and it seems to be very useful to some of my less technical business associates.

Regards,

Hans

[Alfonso Arciniega]

You are welcome, Hans.

Alfonso

[Alvin Orzechowski]

Thank you, Alfonso.

Does anybody know if ClassicTW files work here like they do/did on Tiddlyspot?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tiddlywiki/GDFdlZ9Yd8s/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/83ec752d-dde4-46c1-a5c4-93b1c690279cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Alfonso Arciniega]

Alvin,

Not sure I understand your question. You can see any type of document on DropPages the same way you can see any document on any browser. Tiddlyspot is only for TWs.

Cheers,

Alfonso

[springer]

Alfonso, 

I just tried to set up Droppages, and even an hour after setting it up, I get this odd result: 

When I try to load my TW5 html file via the URL (when the file is indeed in my dropbox under the appropriate folder), the browser's content area stays blank, BUT the browser  (and I've tried all three on my mac) is clearly *trying* to load the right page, because the site header info is properly displaying, based on what's in my TW5. 

Here's the url: http://espringer.droppages.com/index.html

Any clues?

On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 8:24:59 PM UTC-5 Alfonso Arciniega wrote:

[Alfonso Arciniega]

You may want to try adding an empty TW file to the site, and also use a https:// notation instead of http:// in the link, and see if there's any difference.
Remember that your TW files need to be in the "C:\.. ..\Dropbox\Apps\My.DropPages\espringer.droppages.com\Public" folder and nowhere else.

Cheers,

Alfonso

[springer]

Alfonso, Aha, the empty one does loads, so that's progress.... There's something about *some* of my particular tw5 files (I've tried a few, with mixed results) that droppages doesn't like... perhaps a plugin? 

Meanwhile, I still haven't found a good plain-old SAVE solution for working with TW files on my desktop (that doesn't initiate a download with every save, which is a firm no-go), so DropPages is still only half of a solution even for the files that it does serve up properly... 

Here's a summary of the research-setup-troubleshoot work I've done since tiddlyspot went down:

* TW5-dropbox: a fairly seamless EDIT-from-browser-anywhere solution (for files residing on dropbox), but without publishing.

* TiddlyDrive: a fairly seamless EDIT-from-browser-anywhere solution (for files residing on google drive), but without publishing.

* DropPages: a (partial) PUBLISH solution (for files residing in my dropbox, but somehow fails to render some tw5 files), but without seamless edits (and fixated on a Dropbox/Apps folder path distinct from tw5-dropbox's fixed Apps file path; otherwise they might be made to play together?)

* GitHub Saver: GitHub can PUBLISH and newer tw5 versions *should* save edits there, but in practice GitHub flashes me a 401 every time.

* Node.js via terminal: a powerful local-machine EDIT option saves nicely (even to dropbox directory), but which does not yet publish (beyond local-network-while-computer-is-on).

* Noteself: seems to save elegantly, but does a poor job of clarifying where the data lives. (I have lost noteself projects more than once.) Also doesn't publish to web.

So I'm still missing (in the wake of tiddlyspot) a single solution for seamless EDIT-HOST workflow. 

-Springer

[Jero]

"... , I still haven't found a good plain-old SAVE solution for working with TW files on my desktop ..."

Hi. Have you tried "Timimi" ? It works like a charm for me. It allows to save the TW file and silently manages the backups (in a folder in your computer) so you don't have more than a specified number of backup files of a TW file (in my case it's five) at any given time. 

https://ibnishak.github.io/Timimi/

[springer]

Hi Jero. You (forgivably) haven't followed the thread where I specify that my solution has to work on random university computers, public kiosks, etc. Special apps (and local plugins and save-means-download) are out.

BUT (!) I just had a breakthrough with the GitHub saver. The trick was adding and verifying a fresh email; somehow it wasn't satisfied with the verification of the old address (and also didn't flag the email as unverified either).

I'm going to close up shop at work for a bracing-cold bike ride home now, feeling like ONE thing was actually accomplished! 

(And then I'll load the page from home, just to smile at it, and add a meaningless edit, and close it again.)

-Springer

[Jeronimo Minino]

Hi, Springer

Happy to hear that one worked. And good to know about that Github quirkiness with old email addresses. 

Nice pedaling!