Testers needed for TiddlyServer

[Arlen Beiler]

Good Morning everyone,

I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download one of the nexe builds. 

For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is in the dist folder. Let me know how it works. 

Thanks,

Arlen

[Mark S.]

Could you explain what "nexe" is about?

Thanks,
Mark

[Arlen Beiler]

I beg your pardon. If you download the nexe zip for your platform, and unzip it, then you should be able to go into the dist folder and run the binary contained in it. It's compiled into one executable instead of being a bunch of loose javascript files. 

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[Jim]

This is what I get

:

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

I get this:

C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7>node server
C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7\src\server.js:186
        return server_types_1.obs_stat(state)(favicon).mergeMap(([err, stat]) => {
                                                                 ^

SyntaxError: Unexpected token [
    at exports.runInThisContext (vm.js:53:16)
    at Module._compile (module.js:387:25)
    at Object.Module._extensions..js (module.js:422:10)
    at Module.load (module.js:357:32)
    at Function.Module._load (module.js:314:12)
    at Module.require (module.js:367:17)
    at require (internal/module.js:16:19)
    at Object.<anonymous> (C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7\server.js:1:63)
    at Module._compile (module.js:413:34)
    at Object.Module._extensions..js (module.js:422:10)

C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7>pause
Press any key to continue . . .

I downloaded the bundle zip file, extracted it, started with the example settings.json and cleaned out the comments, added a single alias "books": "some_path" and ran start.cmd.

Does it matter the version of node installed if it's already installed? Or will it use the one in the bundle first?

Coda

[Arlen Beiler]

@Jim, you need to put a settings.json file next to the dist folder containing the tiddlyserver settings.

@codacoder, tiddlyserver-2.0.7-nexe is the download with the executable. The one you downloaded is tiddlyserver-2.0.7-bundled. I'm sorry for the confusion, I don't think I explained it correctly. 

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[codacoder...@outlook.com]

No luck, Arlen...

On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 9:44:11 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

@codacoder, tiddlyserver-2.0.7-nexe is the download with the executable. The one you downloaded is tiddlyserver-2.0.7-bundled. I'm sorry for the confusion, I don't think I explained it correctly. 

Okay, I downloaded the nexe zip, extracted it, copied the folders from the unzipped set over the previous unzipped set, ran start.cmd, same error.

Next, I unzipped the nexe zip again (clean), copied the start.cmd and settings.json from the old set into the nexe set up and got this:

C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe>node server
module.js:341
    throw err;
    ^

Error: Cannot find module 'C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\server'
    at Function.Module._resolveFilename (module.js:339:15)
    at Function.Module._load (module.js:290:25)
    at Function.Module.runMain (module.js:447:10)
    at startup (node.js:139:18)
    at node.js:999:3

C:\DL\TiddlyServer\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe>pause

Press any key to continue . . .

So, here's where I'm at:

I have Windows 7 with Node version 5.5.0 already installed.

1 - is having node already installed a problem for TS?

2 - Which download and which set of instructions should I follow?

Coda

[Arlen Beiler]

I'm sorry for the confusion.

• Download TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe-win-64.zip from https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7
  
• Unzip to your desired location.
• Copy your settings.json inside the folder you just unzipped, next to the dist, assets, and tiddlywiki folders.
• Open the dist folder, and double-click on server.exe

Don't worry about start.bat, it isn't needed in this case.

If something is not clear, please ask. I am sorry that I am not so clear the first time around.

Thanks, Arlen

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[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 10:18:36 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

I'm sorry for the confusion.

• Download TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe-win-64.zip from https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7
  
• Unzip to your desired location.
• Copy your settings.json inside the folder you just unzipped, next to the dist, assets, and tiddlywiki folders.
• Open the dist folder, and double-click on server.exe

Bingo.

 

Don't worry about start.bat, it isn't needed in this case.

If something is not clear, please ask. I am sorry that I am not so clear the first time around.

I'll play with it more tomorrow.

THANKS!

Coda

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

Hi Arlen,

I've tried it this morning and all seemed to go well for a while then errors started to occur when saves are made.

1 - An alert pops up with XMLHttpRequest error code: 412

2 - Then a Red Internal JS Error TypeError: xhr is undefined

3 - The console says XML Parsing Error: no root element found Location: http://127.0.0.1:8080/books/testwiki.html Line Number 1, Column 1:

4 - Followed by TypeError: xhr is undefined

Nothing is mentioned in the server console, just the regular PUT statement.

If I close the testwiki and reopen, it starts working again (until it eventually fails again).

Coda

On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 7:06:58 AM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

[Arlen Beiler]

The 412 is thrown if the server thinks the client is working from a stale copy. Is it somehow possible that another application updated the html file on disk? Especially if you can do several saves and then start getting the error. The other errors are a little puzzling, but I think might involve an unrelated bug in TiddlyWiki (https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/2989). 

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[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 10:32:41 AM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

The 412 is thrown if the server thinks the client is working from a stale copy. Is it somehow possible that another application updated the html file on disk?

No, single copy open in the browser.  Note that they first appear from autosaves (closing an edited tiddler, for example) not manual saves by clicking the save icon.

 

Especially if you can do several saves and then start getting the error.

Right.  And once I have the errors appear, there is no way back except to close and reopen the TW.

 

The other errors are a little puzzling, but I think might involve an unrelated bug in TiddlyWiki (https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/2989). 

Note that error #1 appears first while error #3 appears in the console.  When the dialog in #1 is cleared, #2 appears in the UI and #4 appears in the console.  IOW, it's a sequence that always repeats.  And once it has occurred, clicking the TW save icon will repeat the whole thing again.

 

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 11:03 AM, <codacoder...@outlook.com> wrote:

Hi Arlen,

I've tried it this morning and all seemed to go well for a while then errors started to occur when saves are made.

1 - An alert pops up with XMLHttpRequest error code: 412

2 - Then a Red Internal JS Error TypeError: xhr is undefined

3 - The console says XML Parsing Error: no root element found Location: http://127.0.0.1:8080/books/testwiki.html Line Number 1, Column 1:

4 - Followed by TypeError: xhr is undefined

Nothing is mentioned in the server console, just the regular PUT statement.

If I close the testwiki and reopen, it starts working again (until it eventually fails again).

Coda


On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 7:06:58 AM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

Good Morning everyone,

I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download one of the nexe builds. 

For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is in the dist folder. Let me know how it works. 

Thanks,

Arlen

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[Jim]

Ah thanks - this works for me after getting the settings file in the right place.  My suggestions would be to just include a working settings file pointed at the User's home folder. If the user then wants advanced settings, they can go read the docs. Thanks.

On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 11:18:36 PM UTC-4, Arlen Beiler wrote:

I'm sorry for the confusion.

• Download TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe-win-64.zip from https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7
  
• Unzip to your desired location.
• Copy your settings.json inside the folder you just unzipped, next to the dist, assets, and tiddlywiki folders.
• Open the dist folder, and double-click on server.exe

Don't worry about start.bat, it isn't needed in this case.

If something is not clear, please ask. I am sorry that I am not so clear the first time around.

Thanks, Arlen

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[Arlen Beiler]

So even after you start getting the error it will still manually save without errors? And when you say save, do you mean it saves to the server? Or does the manual download saver kick in? 

Or do you mean that the error only starts occurring when using autosave? 

What version is your TiddlyWiki file? This can be found on the control panel. 

Is anyone else getting this error?

Also, could you paste in the entire logs from the TiddlyServer terminal window?

Thanks, Arlen

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 12:00 PM, <codacoder...@outlook.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 10:32:41 AM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

The 412 is thrown if the server thinks the client is working from a stale copy. Is it somehow possible that another application updated the html file on disk?

No, single copy open in the browser.  Note that they occur from autosaves (closing an edited tiddler, for example) not manual saves by clicking the save icon.

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[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 1:07:38 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

So even after you start getting the error it will still manually save without errors?

No.  Once I've seen the error, the only cure is to close the TW and reopen it.

 

And when you say save, do you mean it saves to the server?

Yes, regular saving.

 

Or does the manual download saver kick in? 

No.  If I try to save AFTER seeing the error, I get the error again. It DOES NOT save.

 

Or do you mean that the error only starts occurring when using autosave? 

That's hard to say.  I rarely save manually so I have only seen the error appear under regular autosave conditions.

 

What version is your TiddlyWiki file?

5.1.14

 

Also, could you paste in the entire logs from the TiddlyServer terminal window?

It's gone now -- I had to return to my old system (using tiddlyfox).  I can assure you, the server window only contained regular PUT statements which suggests to me, the server "thinks" it has saved the wiki (but clearly hasn't since it responded with a 412).  Which preconditions are you setting/checking?  If-Unmodified-Since?  Anything else?

I may be able to retry TS properly later.

Coda

 

[Anders Jonsson]

I will chime in to say that I’ve also had plenty of this 412/RSOD problem (and I’m relying on equal measures of manual saves and autosaves; win10, FF56, TW5.1.14)...

1. White box stating ”Error while saving: XMLHttpRequest error code: 412”
2. The big, red ”embarrasment” box stating ”TypeError: xhr is undefined”
(3. In the TiddlyServer window the 412 code is given for the last PUT)
4. Generally no saving possible afterwards without reloading the tiddlywiki (thereby losing any changes since last successful save), but sometimes I’ve found that the problem ”goes away” by itself after me waiting a while, meaning that I can once again start saving normally without having to reload...

Regards
//Anders

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

Apart from the message posted to the server window, that's identical to my system.  One thing I did wonder... my wikis are on an external drive.  Yours?

 

[Anders Jonsson]

I keep my TWs on an internal drive.

But that reminds me that I have them stored in my Dropbox folder, and wondering if the Dropbox-syncing might affect things? (Guessing blindly, me knowing next to nothing about the ”under the hood network stuff”...)

//Anders

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

You can discount the dropbox theory, not in play here.

I'm intrigued by your point #4 though.  How long do you typically wait for the problem to magically "go away"?

[Jim]

Yes, I believe this an issue I had when trying tiddly server initially. Google drive is worse for creating this issue than Dropbox. If you wait until Dropbox says it is done syncing, you can save again with no errors. The bigger your wiki, the longer it takes Dropbox to upload it. 

On a side note, I quit using Google drive sync altogether because it appeared to permanently change file permissions to read-only and I had to go in and manually reset it in order to save. Could it be Node or TiddlyServer doing it?

[Arlen Beiler]

The reason I asked about the terminal output is because the line that specifies the put request also specifies the response that the server returned, which in this case should be 412. 

The server does not think it's saved if it returns a 412. It is telling the client that it could not save because the file was newer than what the client had specified. 

Under the hood, it uses the modified time of the file to check whether the file was changed since the client loaded it. Every time the client sends a new version to the server the server sends the new timestamp back to the client which the client then sends on the next save. If nothing else changed the file in the meantime, the timestamp will still be identical.

One more question, what version of node are you both using, or are you using the nexe version that I posted at the top of this thread?

On Oct 11, 2017 16:14, "Jim" <jim....@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, I believe this an issue I had when trying tiddly server initially. Google drive is worse for creating this issue than Dropbox. If you wait until Dropbox says it is done syncing, you can save again with no errors. The bigger your wiki, the longer it takes Dropbox to upload it. 

On a side note, I quit using Google drive sync altogether because it appeared to permanently change file permissions to read-only and I had to go in and manually reset it in order to save.

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 3:59:26 PM UTC-4, Anders Jonsson wrote:

I keep my TWs on an internal drive.

But that reminds me that I have them stored in my Dropbox folder, and wondering if the Dropbox-syncing might affect things? (Guessing blindly, me knowing next to nothing about the ”under the hood network stuff”...)

//Anders

...

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 4:08:16 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

The reason I asked about the terminal output is because the line that specifies the put request also specifies the response that the server returned, which in this case should be 412. 

I'll pay closer attention when I try it again.

One more question, what version of node are you both using, or are you using the nexe version that I posted at the top of this thread?

I asked you that a couple of times.  I have Node 5.5.0 installed but I would guess yours is being used (I guess it's "in" the nexe build, right?)

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 4:08:16 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

The reason I asked about the terminal output is because the line that specifies the put request also specifies the response that the server returned, which in this case should be 412. 

Yep, here it is:

Settings file: C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\settings.json
Open your browser and type in one of the following:
127.0.0.1:8080
[2017-10-11T16:22:35.406-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       854.115 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:22:59.737-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       146.147 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:02.356-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       143.149 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:03.996-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       144.009 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:05.605-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       146.161 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:06.878-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       155.558 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:08.573-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       168.605 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:23:53.250-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       144.057 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:24:00.915-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       144.234 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:24:40.083-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       143.304 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:25:38.675-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  412 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       1.528 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:26:05.757-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  412 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       0.654 ms - -


I also got this on the very first attempt.  I restarted and didn't see it again:

[2017-10-11T16:18:20.981-0500] OPTIONS 127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       1.254 ms - -
[2017-10-11T16:18:33.329-0500] PUT     127.0.0.1  200 127.0.0.1 /books/testwiki
.html                                       153.159 ms - -
TypeError: Cannot read property 'length' of undefined
    at Function.morgan.token [as local-addr] (C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\d
ist\server.exe:1598:37)
    at eval (eval at compile (C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:3
181:10), <anonymous>:7:26)
    at developmentFormatLine (C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:1
632:9)
    at Array.logRequest (C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:2912:1
8)
    at listener (C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:2688:17)
    at onFinish (C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:2619:7)
    at callback (C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:2475:12)
    at Socket.onevent (C:\Wikis\TiddlyServer-2.0.7-nexe\dist\server.exe:2513:7)
    at emitOne (events.js:101:20)
    at Socket.emit (events.js:188:7)
    at emitErrorNT (net.js:1277:8)
    at _combinedTickCallback (internal/process/next_tick.js:80:11)
    at process._tickCallback (internal/process/next_tick.js:104:9)
caught process uncaughtException
closing server

[Arlen Beiler]

Thank you all for your input. I will check into these things and hopefully figure something out. I don't know what is causing the 412 error, but it is considered a safeguard to make sure a stale copy does not get saved to the server. 

Yes, the nexe zip contains its own version of node, I should have directed my question more specifically to Anders. If you use the nexe zip, it should not matter what version of node you have installed.

I cannot see a reason that a 412 would suddenly start happening unless perhaps if two saves happened too close to each other, but the normal autosave mechanism doesn't seem to work like that. But I'll check into it. I have a couple ideas.

If it was happening to me the first thing would be to pause Dropbox. But I use Dropbox all the time for this stuff. And I never run into trouble with it.

Thanks,

Arlen

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 10:03:34 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

 If you use the nexe zip, it should not matter what version of node you have installed.

Good.

 

I cannot see a reason that a 412 would suddenly start happening unless perhaps if two saves happened too close to each other, but the normal autosave mechanism doesn't seem to work like that.

Agreed.  I did try again, and on one of the tests, the second manual save brought the error up.  The file had only been open a matter of seconds.  All other instances took much longer and, as I said before, happens during autosave.

 

But I'll check into it. I have a couple ideas.

If it was happening to me the first thing would be to pause Dropbox. But I use Dropbox all the time for this stuff. And I never run into trouble with it.

Dropbox is not in my setup, but Ander's stores his files in his dropbox folder.

 

[Arlen Beiler]

@coda and @jim, have you used the bundled version of TiddlyServer before and did it also have this problem for you?

Thanks

Arlen

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[coda coder]

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 6:42:38 AM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

@coda and @jim, have you used the bundled version of TiddlyServer before and did it also have this problem for you?

I have never used TS before - this was my first time.

Any progress, Arlen?

[Arlen Beiler]

The best that I can figure is that it is some kind of problem on the file system. But I don't know which of two problems it is. Either it is because of the inode, or because of the modified time. 

I made a new release which will give more info about the 412 error in the node console when it happens. You can download it from here: https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.8

Use the TiddlyServer-2.0.8-nexe zips. As always, when upgrading, unzip the folder and copy the settings.json file into it rather than copying the files into your old folder. 

Arlen

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[jwd]

I am not following this whole thread so please excuse if this has been discussed and eliminated  as a possibility.

Another set of applications running on many peoples' computers that they tend to forget about are virus and other malware detection software. One of the ways those work is by watching for disk write activity. When those apps notice disk writes occurring - as a result of saving an attachment from your email, but also TiddlyServer updating disk contents, and prior to them getting locked down, browsers writing TiddlyWiki files to disk - those apps will then scan the files just written to see if some malware has been deposited. Unless users exclude their Tiddlywiki files from those scans that can sometimes cause issues that are mysterious to diagnose.

I am speculating that those 412 errors may be caused by a virus scanner having those just-updated files locked while they are checked for bad stuff; and doing that repeatedly.

[coda coder]

Wow - good idea, jwd.  Slapping my head here for not having thought of it myself.

This is a Win7 box and I only use MSE on it.  I'll cover that possibility when I next test.

@Arlen.  I'll try the new release tomorrow (Sunday) sometime.

[Mike Manchester]

Do you know when the Linux version will be available? I run my TiddlyServer on both MAC and Linux and would love to help test but also don't want to loose the ability to edit my files on Linux.

Thanks

[Arlen Beiler]

For Linux you can download the bundled.zip one, following the instructions in the readme. You can install node globally using your package manager, and then just skip the node installation step.

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[Anders Jonsson]

Hi!

Using the 2.0.8-nexe I get the following message when the 412 error occurs (which for me is after something like 40-50 auto-saves):

412 ifmatch "1125899906846851-2837220-1508737720000"
412 etag "1125899906846851-2837220-1508737721000"
412 caused by difference in modified

(Regarding antivirus programs I get the error with "normal" settings, but so far I haven't been able to produce this error when _testing_ with "real-time protection" completely turned off...)

//Anders

[Arlen Beiler]

Thank you.

I could calculate the file hash and use that as the Etag, but I would need to read the file once (in chunks) to calculate the hash, and then again to send it to the client. Or I could store the entire file in memory after calculating the hash, and send it to the client without reading it again. But the process could run out of memory if I do that. So is it better to read from disk twice? Or is it better to read once and risk running out of memory.

There is one other option, and that is to add a two second delay before retrieving the time modified, but then who can guarantee that the file was not changed in that two second window. 

I use Malwarebytes Premium, and so far I have not had problems. But I hardly ever edit single file wikis either. Mostly just data folders, which just overwrite without checking since the state is stored in the Node process. 

If anyone else has any additional information or test results, or ideas, feel free to comment.

Arlen

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[Eskha]

Hi Arlen,

On windows 7 with Firefox, I also have a lot of XMLHttpRequest: 412 errors, with the following error in TiddlyWiki: "TypeError: xhr is undefined" and in the command line:

[2017-10-25T17:57:45.141+-200] PUT     127.0.0.1       200 127.0.0.1 /my_wiki/No
tes.html                                         494.586 ms - -
412 ifmatch "1125899906935583-8410702-1508947064000"
412 etag "1125899906935583-8410702-1508947065000"

412 caused by difference in modified

I hope you can fin a solution: TiddlyServer is otherwise really useful.

Best regards.

Eskha

Le mardi 24 octobre 2017 04:12:21 UTC+2, Arlen Beiler a écrit :

Thank you.

I could calculate the file hash and use that as the Etag, but I would need to read the file once (in chunks) to calculate the hash, and then again to send it to the client. Or I could store the entire file in memory after calculating the hash, and send it to the client without reading it again. But the process could run out of memory if I do that. So is it better to read from disk twice? Or is it better to read once and risk running out of memory.

There is one other option, and that is to add a two second delay before retrieving the time modified, but then who can guarantee that the file was not changed in that two second window. 

I use Malwarebytes Premium, and so far I have not had problems. But I hardly ever edit single file wikis either. Mostly just data folders, which just overwrite without checking since the state is stored in the Node process. 

If anyone else has any additional information or test results, or ideas, feel free to comment.

Arlen

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 2:39 AM, Anders Jonsson <chaosweav...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi!

Using the 2.0.8-nexe I get the following message when the 412 error occurs (which for me is after something like 40-50 auto-saves):

412 ifmatch "1125899906846851-2837220-1508737720000"
412 etag "1125899906846851-2837220-1508737721000"
412 caused by difference in modified

(Regarding antivirus programs I get the error with "normal" settings, but so far I haven't been able to produce this error when _testing_ with "real-time protection" completely turned off...)

//Anders

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 2:46:22 PM UTC+2, Arlen Beiler wrote:

The best that I can figure is that it is some kind of problem on the file system. But I don't know which of two problems it is. Either it is because of the inode, or because of the modified time. 

I made a new release which will give more info about the 412 error in the node console when it happens. You can download it from here: https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.8

Use the TiddlyServer-2.0.8-nexe zips. As always, when upgrading, unzip the folder and copy the settings.json file into it rather than copying the files into your old folder. 

Arlen

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[coda coder]

On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 9:12:21 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

If anyone else has any additional information or test results, or ideas, feel free to comment.

Success (fingers crossed).

Win7, Microsoft Security Essentials set to exclude my TW folders (and the TS install folder) and... no errors!

Here's hoping it continues!

Thanks, Arlen.

Coda

[coda coder]

Damn.  I spoke too soon.  Now I'm seeing the error again (same as posted by Eskha).  It's really frustrating -- it's been running fine for *many* hours.  And I can't blame AV any more.

Sorry.

[Arlen Beiler]

It didn't turn back on by itself, did it? I'm really puzzled by this. Obviously this is a security feature, but sometimes security features don't work correctly. Does it make a difference what size file you are working with? I have some ideas for what to do about this, but they have their limits. 

For small files, I can easily compute an SHA-512 hash and use that as the Etag, but that means reading the file from disk everytime you save, so it only works to a certain point. But what is a reasonable limit? Is 100MB too much? I guess I could make it configurable in settings.json and set a reasonable limit like 20MB and only html and htm extensions. 

Arlen

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[coda coder]

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:29:01 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

It didn't turn back on by itself, did it? I'm really puzzled by this. Obviously this is a security feature, but sometimes security features don't work correctly.

No, I don't think so.  I have in the past had to add my build folders for my NW.js apps to the excluded folders list for this exact same reason (that's why I was annoyed with myself for not thinking of AV myself).  Having checked the settings, they look correct and, if MSE was messing with me like you suggest, I think I'd know about it.

 

Does it make a difference what size file you are working with?

I'm only testing with a single file at the moment.  It's about 4MB.

 

I have some ideas for what to do about this, but they have their limits. 

For small files, I can easily compute an SHA-512 hash and use that as the Etag, but that means reading the file from disk everytime you save, so it only works to a certain point. But what is a reasonable limit? Is 100MB too much? I guess I could make it configurable in settings.json and set a reasonable limit like 20MB and only html and htm extensions. 

It's hard to say.   Largest in that folder would be 24.8MB -- but that's unusual.  Average (excluding that large one) would be about 3MB.

Weird thing is, once it hit the error, the next few times it hit the error within a save or two, yet, I'd gone 8 or 9 hours on that first stint without issue.  Weird, or what...

Coda

[Arlen Beiler]

The other thing I am wondering about is write caching. But that shouldn't be the case on a USB stick, and it should still be consistent.

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[coda coder]

I'm using a hard drive.

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:05:40 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

The other thing I am wondering about is write caching. But that shouldn't be the case on a USB stick, and it should still be consistent.

On Oct 25, 2017 22:51, "coda coder" <codacoder...@outlook.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 9:29:01 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

It didn't turn back on by itself, did it? I'm really puzzled by this. Obviously this is a security feature, but sometimes security features don't work correctly.

No, I don't think so.  I have in the past had to add my build folders for my NW.js apps to the excluded folders list for this exact same reason (that's why I was annoyed with myself for not thinking of AV myself).  Having checked the settings, they look correct and, if MSE was messing with me like you suggest, I think I'd know about it.

 

Does it make a difference what size file you are working with?

I'm only testing with a single file at the moment.  It's about 4MB.

 

I have some ideas for what to do about this, but they have their limits. 

For small files, I can easily compute an SHA-512 hash and use that as the Etag, but that means reading the file from disk everytime you save, so it only works to a certain point. But what is a reasonable limit? Is 100MB too much? I guess I could make it configurable in settings.json and set a reasonable limit like 20MB and only html and htm extensions. 

It's hard to say.   Largest in that folder would be 24.8MB -- but that's unusual.  Average (excluding that large one) would be about 3MB.

Weird thing is, once it hit the error, the next few times it hit the error within a save or two, yet, I'd gone 8 or 9 hours on that first stint without issue.  Weird, or what...

Coda

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[coda coder]

Arlen,

I've been giving this issue some thought.  I think the onus is on the user to setup a backup system -- there are many options available, including the TS facility.  Therefore, if a user somehow manages to save an old version over a newer version (if not impossible, seems unlikely, I think) then so be it.  I'm saying, make the time-check an option (default "on" I guess) which I and a few others can turn off.  Then, suddenly, TS will become usable (for me, at any rate).

What do you think?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

The whole question of backup in TW is something that has interested me from when I started.

I have formed an OPINION on it.

(1) its nice when it can be made to work seamlessly from within TW. A plus--but not a necessity. I'd rather programmers didn't struggle over it though. I'd rather they paid central attention to keeping TW up and running--something only they can do.

(2) backup is very appropriately handled by Backup Programs. The good ones give multiple options that far exceed anything TW can do because they are dedicated to that one task.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Arlen Beiler]

The backup feature could probably be better described as a complete version history. I can disable e-tags if someone is using backups and they won't lose anything. 

The other option is to add a setting that would allow you to set a time window within which an e-tag is valid. So if most of your e-tags are off by one second, you can set a window of five seconds and a request with an Etag that is within 5 seconds of the modified time will get saved.

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[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Arlen

Arlen Beiler wrote:

The backup feature could probably be better described as a complete version history.

Right. I think that is more accurate and alerts users its advisable to do "redundant backup" too. Its just basic when you invest effort into projects to do that. The what-is-ness of conventional backup to a different location/disk has merit that IMO constantly needs emphasizing as primary.

It's great you want to support versioning. I benefit from it. But I never think that somehow its an obligation. Its great you get the TW working for free already.

Best wishes
Josiah

[coda coder]

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 7:38:48 AM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

The backup feature could probably be better described as a complete version history. I can disable e-tags if someone is using backups and they won't lose anything. 

I don't know the detail, unfortunately, but if disabling e-tags is in essence what I was asking you for, that's the option I (personally) would prefer.

 

The other option is to add a setting that would allow you to set a time window within which an e-tag is valid. So if most of your e-tags are off by one second, you can set a window of five seconds and a request with an Etag that is within 5 seconds of the modified time will get saved.

There's a difference between backing up a TW when it is first opened from disk and backing up on a save-by-save basis.  I'm assuming we're talking about the former, not the latter.  The former is what I assume you mean by "version history".

I already have that in place and don't see any need to change it, though I maybe would if I felt the need -- can't imagine what that need might be though.

As regards the time window... any code that takes a "best guess" at the appropriate period of time is likely to suffer from distrust.  Also, I have some wikis that are open for weeks and many others that are transient throughout a single day.  Some are modified a lot, others rarely.  I just don't know what time period I'd pick.  And then I'd always wonder if my next save was going to suffer a 412 because I'd chosen a poor "best guess" period.  Hence, distrust.

Really, honestly, I'd prefer no time checking at all.  Then, as I said above, TS would become usable (and, trustworthy).

 

On Oct 26, 2017 2:25 PM, "@TiddlyTweeter" <tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

The whole question of backup in TW is something that has interested me from when I started.

I have formed an OPINION on it.

(1) its nice when it can be made to work seamlessly from within TW. A plus--but not a necessity. I'd rather programmers didn't struggle over it though. I'd rather they paid central attention to keeping TW up and running--something only they can do.

(2) backup is very appropriately handled by Backup Programs. The good ones give multiple options that far exceed anything TW can do because they are dedicated to that one task.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[coda coder]

Let me say this another way...

A PUT request is an undeniable request made by the client,  Honor it.  Honor it and let the issuer own the consequences.

[Arlen Beiler]

The time window would work something like this. 

Let's say you have the wiki open in one tab and you do some editing and the changes get saved. Can you open it in another tab or window or on another computer, and make some changes there. Then you come back to the first computer or tab and without thinking you make some changes and they automatically get saved. If neither the backup feature nor Etag is enabled, your changes are irretrievable lost, unless your backup system already grabbed them as soon as they were written.

The backup feature of TiddlyServer lets you retrieve that old version, and the e-tag prevents it from being overwritten in the first place. 

Now if I would put a time window in place of, say, 10 seconds, it would be able to save only if the file on disk is nor more than 10 seconds newer than the version loaded in the browser. If it was modified more than 10 seconds later than the version in the browser it would not be able to save. This would be a setting in settings.json so the user could adjust it according to the need. 

Interesting thought, I will consider it. 

Arlen

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[coda coder]

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 8:37:44 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

The time window would work something like this. 

Let's say you have the wiki open in one tab and you do some editing and the changes get saved. Can you open it in another tab or window or on another computer, and make some changes there. Then you come back to the first computer or tab and without thinking you make some changes and they automatically get saved. If neither the backup feature nor Etag is enabled, your changes are irretrievable lost, unless your backup system already grabbed them as soon as they were written.

That's identical behavior to current single-file TWs. Anyone using single-file TWs knows (or should know) how that works.  Arlen, seriously, I admire you trying to solve it, but the etag system is, at times, failing you. Because the etag system is failing you, your system, TS, is suffering as a result.

The backup feature of TiddlyServer lets you retrieve that old version, and the e-tag prevents it from being overwritten in the first place. 

Now if I would put a time window in place of, say, 10 seconds, it would be able to save only if the file on disk is nor more than 10 seconds newer than the version loaded in the browser. If it was modified more than 10 seconds later than the version in the browser it would not be able to save. This would be a setting in settings.json so the user could adjust it according to the need. 

Nifty idea.  But again, it's not needed, IMO.  You're trying to fix an etag issue, not a TS issue, per se.

 

Interesting thought, I will consider it. 

Are you referring to my bloody-minded "A PUT request is an undeniable request..." statement?  Having thought about it more, I'd go even further -- refusing to let me save, implies the server knows better than I do what needs to be (and should be allowed to be) saved.  That's a showstopper, for me. :/

Anyway, I admire your diligence on this but hope you give me switch like...

{

  ...

  "ts-options" : {

    "enable-etag": false // default true

  }

}

 :)

[Arlen Beiler]

Ok, I've added this feature to master and updated the readme.

I don't have time for another release right now, so just download or clone master, and then copy your settings.json file and the tiddlywiki folder from your old version into master. 

If you were using the nexe version, just copy node.exe in from somewhere else if you don't want to install it globally and you'll be good to go. 

You can download the the node.exe from NodeJS.org. See my notes about a portable install in the installation instructions.

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[coda coder]

Cool. Thanks Arlen. It's up an running now - fingers crossed.

I've added:

  "etag": "disabled",
  "etagWindow": 0,

to my settings.  I guess the value of etagWindow doesn't matter when etag is disabled - right?

On Friday, November 3, 2017 at 11:28:59 AM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

Ok, I've added this feature to master and updated the readme.

I don't have time for another release right now, so just download or clone master, and then copy your settings.json file and the tiddlywiki folder from your old version into master. 

If you were using the nexe version, just copy node.exe in from somewhere else if you don't want to install it globally and you'll be good to go. 

You can download the the node.exe from NodeJS.org. See my notes about a portable install in the installation instructions.

On Oct 28, 2017 12:15 AM, "coda coder" <codacoder...@outlook.com> wrote:

On Friday, October 27, 2017 at 8:37:44 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

The time window would work something like this. 

Let's say you have the wiki open in one tab and you do some editing and the changes get saved. Can you open it in another tab or window or on another computer, and make some changes there. Then you come back to the first computer or tab and without thinking you make some changes and they automatically get saved. If neither the backup feature nor Etag is enabled, your changes are irretrievable lost, unless your backup system already grabbed them as soon as they were written.

That's identical behavior to current single-file TWs. Anyone using single-file TWs knows (or should know) how that works.  Arlen, seriously, I admire you trying to solve it, but the etag system is, at times, failing you. Because the etag system is failing you, your system, TS, is suffering as a result.

The backup feature of TiddlyServer lets you retrieve that old version, and the e-tag prevents it from being overwritten in the first place. 

Now if I would put a time window in place of, say, 10 seconds, it would be able to save only if the file on disk is nor more than 10 seconds newer than the version loaded in the browser. If it was modified more than 10 seconds later than the version in the browser it would not be able to save. This would be a setting in settings.json so the user could adjust it according to the need. 

Nifty idea.  But again, it's not needed, IMO.  You're trying to fix an etag issue, not a TS issue, per se.

 

Interesting thought, I will consider it. 

Are you referring to my bloody-minded "A PUT request is an undeniable request..." statement?  Having thought about it more, I'd go even further -- refusing to let me save, implies the server knows better than I do what needs to be (and should be allowed to be) saved.  That's a showstopper, for me. :/

Anyway, I admire your diligence on this but hope you give me switch like...

{

  ...

  "ts-options" : {

    "enable-etag": false // default true

  }

}

 :)

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[Arlen Beiler]

Correct.

No fingers crossed, I wrote the code. If you still get the 412 with etag:"disabled", that's a bug, not a feature :)

Enjoy, 

Arlen

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[coda coder]

Uptime = 21 hours.  Multiple TWs served, edited, saved. 

No glitches. 

I think you done gone cracked it ;)

[@TiddlyTweeter]

you done gone cracked it

That is a line from a movie. x

[coda coder]

On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 10:07:26 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

you done gone cracked it

That is a line from a movie. x

Life imitates art.  Whoda  thunk it.

[kelsang sherab]

What kind of testers are you looking for?

I am happy to learn but I have no proper coding skills.

cheers

[Arlen Beiler]

Just people who know how to select the console output and copy it into an email whenever something crashes. Or open text files and email their contents. Everyone was begging me for some kind of bundled executable, so I threw this in to see how it would work. It took a little to rework the code, but I haven't gotten any feedback on whether or not it works, so I'm guessing maybe it does :) The installation instructions are at the beginning of this thread. 

Arlen

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[coda coder]

On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 4:08:36 PM UTC-5, Arlen Beiler wrote:

It took a little to rework the code, but I haven't gotten any feedback on whether or not it works, so I'm guessing maybe it does :)

Yeah, "maybe it does".  Passed 48 hour uptime mark.  No problems.

:)

[TonyM]

Arlen,

I did not see anything on the console with 412 errors that I recall. I am now using the latest version a lot so I am giving it a "soak" test.  

Was there a debug setting I should just use the console - in my case, Windows 10,  the command window that appears.

Lovely work!

Regards

Tony

[TonyM]

Arlen,

Post Script

 I almost have a practical way of exporting files and commands from tiddlywiki to the Operating system. Node or single file.

My only hump is to export files with my desired file extension without being forced to use txt .tid and .json (cry for help)

However since the settings.json is a json file have you thought of using tiddlywiki as an interface, to create and update the settings, file? It could code away the complexity for users. But it would need to bypass the tiddler formating of the json file.

I am happy to work on this for you. Once I get passed the above hump.

That is a tiddlywiki based generation of those files.

Regards

Tony

[TonyM]

Arlen,

I am running TiddlyServer 2.0.8 and getting an increasing number of 412 Errors.
Is this version sufficient or must I do as you note "Ok, I've added this feature to master and updated the readme.", if so can you explain master?

I was wondering what the state of play was.

The console reports errors Usually of this form
412 ifmatch "6473924464444737-1972104-1510635138000"
412 etag     "6473924464444737-1972104-1510635139000"
412 caused by difference in modified

412 ifmatch "6473924464444737-1972720-1510637216000"
412 etag     "6473924464444737-1972720-1510637217000"
412 caused by difference in modified

Perhaps obvious to all are the trailing 000 and one digit apart. Is the backup occurring between this?
In an example case the console item before took 0.714 ms and the one after an error took 4,453 ms
So it seems plausible the process takes more than one second.

• I have multiple file based wiki's, I access though tiddlyServer and none seem immune, from this error. except when I turn off Autosave.
• Smaller wikis are no less likely to have this Problem.
• Should Every save result in a new backup file?
• I am running on Top of an SSD with 16GB Ram so should be getting fast responses
  

In Response to errors, I Copy the content of the current tiddler, which did not save, reload, find the tiddler and paste the content in. Occasionally I can cope, but of late it is getting harder.

Thanks
Tony

On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 8:08:36 AM UTC+11, Arlen Beiler wrote:

Just people who know how to select the console output and copy it into an email whenever something crashes. Or open text files and email their contents. Everyone was begging me for some kind of bundled executable, so I threw this in to see how it would work. It took a little to rework the code, but I haven't gotten any feedback on whether or not it works, so I'm guessing maybe it does :) The installation instructions are at the beginning of this thread. 

Arlen

On Sat, Nov 4, 2017 at 4:08 PM, kelsang sherab <asks...@gmail.com> wrote:

What kind of testers are you looking for?

I am happy to learn but I have no proper coding skills.

cheers

On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 1:06:58 PM UTC+1, Arlen Beiler wrote:

Good Morning everyone,

I just released an update to TiddlyServer. This release brings support for nexe. So now I need people to test it. If you are interested, go to https://github.com/Arlen22/TiddlyServer/releases/tag/2.0.7 and download one of the nexe builds. 

For now, I only have windows and mac builds in 64 bit. The settings.json file still belongs in the root folder, but the executable is in the dist folder. Let me know how it works. 

Thanks,

Arlen

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[Arlen Beiler]

412 errors show up whenever they happen. I will add a debug setting later.

I am planning to add an admin screen to change settings at some point.

I am hoping to push a release soon, but for now you will need to use master to make use of the Etag settings I added.

Hope that helps

-Arlen

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