Would this group be better on WhatsApp?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Just a thought.

This group's Modus Operandi looks somewhat dated.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Jeremy Ruston]

Just a thought.

This group's Modus Operandi looks somewhat dated.

WhatsApp is good for chat but it’s ephemeral: it doesn’t off permalinks or searchability. It might have a role alongside this group, but as a replacement I think it's a non-starter.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Jeremy

Thanks for the reply.

I was being more prodding than helpful.

FRANKLY, though, GG is looking worse and worse over time.

Our major problem is it CANNOT cope with the sheer complexity of TW as it evolves.

Right now is a very good phase in TW's history to know that, to see that clearly.

I think our GG approach is seriously BLUNTING (a) its use; (b) understanding of it.

The Sixteen Plus ways of saving TW -- well you are NOT gonna be able to find all those on Google. Yeah TW .com gives access but TO a disorganised mess.

Can't we do better?

Best wishes
Josiah

[Lost Admin]

In my humble opinion, to get what TT wants, what this group needs is proper forums instead of Google's attempt to replace nntp. We also probably need a wiki that can be edited by mutliple people.

Forums would allow categorization of discussions easier.

A wiki with multiple editors would allow different people to manage different aspects of documentation such as end-user guides, developer guides, dedicated guides to each of the 20 or so savers, etc.

But to do the above would require funding for hosting.

On Thursday, November 16, 2017 at 9:25:09 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Ciao Jeremy

Thanks for the reply.

I was being more prodding than helpful.

FRANKLY, though GG is looking worse and worse over time.

[PMario]

Hmmm,

I'm on Telegram. So not for me.

-m

[Mark S.]

If we had a wiki would it be legal to import massive amounts of data from Tiddlywiki.com ? I'm sure we wouldn't want to re-invent every wheel.

Mark

[Tristan Kohl]

I moved to DeltaChat some time ago and never looked back. A few days ago they started work on an iOS app so I would second Mario in this regard.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S., PMario & Lost Admin

PMario in humour mode wrote ...

I'm on Telegram. So not for me.

Lost Admin wrote:

... In my humble opinion, to get what TT wants, what this group needs is proper forums...

Mark S. wrote:

... I'm sure we wouldn't want to re-invent every wheel.

IMO Google Groups is a PIT of losing your history almost before you made it.

I'll wait a bit on PMario getting beyond the Telegram which died in 1996 as far as I know. Though there are rumours some corporation stole the name recently.

Right. Lets not re-invent the wheel. Just have one :-)

Josiah, x 

[Mark S.]

Hmm, doesn't look dead:

https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-is-telegram-different-from-whatsapp

Dot-org, so hopefully not a company.

Another interesting FAQ: "Will you have ads? Or sell my data? Or steal my beloved and enslave my children?"

Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I T   A P P E A R S   T H E    T E L E G R A P H   I S   S T I L L   W O R K I N G.   S T O P.

[TonyM]

Josiah,

I would host for free, or a sponsor add.

I have being professionally involved in growing an online community from 2,000 to around 45,000 in enterprise social, yammer

I would consider something like Yammer, myself which is both a chat, microblog and long running conversation platform, file and groups, mentions etc... however any new platform needs every member to adopt.

I may even be in a position to offer a yammer network as well.

The trick is to propose an alternative and invite select people to participate, building a team of proponents. 

They will have to champion adoption and initially mine existing channels to republish content until economies of scale and content levels make it self sustaining.

Not withstanding this we should maximise the use of tiddlywiki itself, "drink out own campaign" (nicer than dog food)

Regards

Tony

 

[Jed Carty]

While I support the idea of moving to a new forum I don't have much experience with any forums, but the french forums seem to work well.

I am never going to use WhatsApp. If we need a real-time chat option I would suggest matrix.

[Tristan Kohl]

I don:t think we will need real-time chat at all as TW is about knowledge exchange and information which is usually not that time critical. A real forum would support way better search capabilities as topics are split up.

If we really want to chat like in a hangout I think a classic IRC (maybe with a webinterface for those without clients) would be the best option as anybody may participate whenever they want. My experience from i.e. WhatsApp groups is the big problem of noise created when the number of people grows beyond a specific threshold (~20). One can mute the chat but nonetheless messages are coming in and you loose track. With IRC you just don't start the client if you don't want to read it.

Plus it would be better for privacy as nobody has to share stuff like their phone number if they don't want to.

Just my two cents.

[Sylvain Naudin]

Yet Another Thread about GG ;)

On Friday, November 17, 2017 at 9:23:15 AM UTC+1, Jed Carty wrote:

While I support the idea of moving to a new forum I don't have much experience with any forums, but the french forums seem to work well.

Since I offer this Discourse to french community, I indeed think that forum like Discourse can do the job like Google Groups do (post/reply email, multi-device, wiki, etc..) Since it's Stackoverflow creator, they have background to deal whith. And it's OpenSource.

It cost me 3€ per month. For a largeur audience, we could need more robust cloud serveur, but I think it's not the major problem.

Cheers,

Sylvain

[Sander Datema]

Yes, I can second Discourse. It's - as they say themselves - the forum for the next 10 years. And it runs quite nicely on a small VPS. Though I have no idea how big the community is here?

Op vrijdag 17 november 2017 10:41:47 UTC+1 schreef Sylvain Naudin:

[Alex Hough]

I think we need to be careful about making changes, the unintended consequence of using google groups is that we get interactions which a more streamlined system would design out.

We may find that the social flavour might change. 

Alex

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[Alex Hough]

Do we need a TiddlySkunkWorks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunkworks_project

[Birthe C]

Exactly!

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Cari tutti, & yeah Alex & Birthe.

I am sure you are right that the serendipitous freedom in GG, combined with the nice people here, is a major factor in inertia to keep it. And a good one.

AlexHough wrote:

I think we need to be careful about making changes, the unintended consequence of using google groups is that we get interactions which a more streamlined system would design out.

Birthe C wrote:

Exactly!

On the OTHER hand here is a swamp of Lost History. I'm forever trying to find things to reference in order to reply to people ... often I give up and don't reply. I CAN'T FIND STUFF that's anything more than a few days old.

Replies like "Mat did that about three months ago" without a link are about as useful as a head without the chicken. You got nothing to cook. If that is tough for me its a total turn-off for a newbie.

IF there were a PARALLEL GG that a full-time archivist were tagging/logging it would really help. What Riz has done on Reddit is part-way there, but too much for one person to pull off fully.

I did think in a mad way that a Twitter feed might be able to do the MINIMAL missing piece sustainably. Its still in my mind.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Alex Hough]

perhaps the solution is in the "people space".... about helping the community develop its shared set of skills with a set of community led purposes in mind.

I am a great believer in facilitation, i think it needs to come from outside

Alex

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[Ste Wilson]

I keep meaning to look but is there an IFTTT type solution to auto populate Reddit or something every time there is a post here...

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Ste

I looked at IFTTT. No interface with Google Groups that I can find.

In any case you'd have a problem with the volume. What one needs is a heavily filtered version that concentrates on major, working innovations and stuff that adds to documentation. Most of the stuff written here is ephemeral steps ... important at the time of creation, but of no long lasting value.

Lacking moderated tagging/classification on initial creation of posts on GG I think the human eye will be needed to make judegments. So its selective recycling needed, I think. I mean, a lot of my own posts I seriously wouldn't want to read as history :-). Riz, within limits of time, has done pretty well as a largely one man band on Reddit teasing out quite a lot of the good things but it is obviously not enough.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Alex Hough]

 In the past I have tried to write a fanzine to accompany a new version. The idea is simple

wrtite the fanzine on a prerelease. report on  google groups activity, twitter activity. Each zine is an edition relating the the version was in pre-release. Once released, a new issue of the zine would be started.

I am willing to give it a shot of there are any other takers.

Alex

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[@TiddlyTweeter]

I think the idea of a TIMED FANZINE is really excellent.

If you go ahead you can delegate me a topic.

J, x

[Alex Hough]

Josiah,

How about building on top of SheepyWiki [1] and TweetWeaver [2]

TiddlyTweeter can have a column, expanding on his /her Tweets

In SheepyWiki I have built on a pre-release and expanded it prioritising cloning as main way. There are various versions SheepyWiki1, SheepyWiki2 ... get the picture. Each is built on the top of the previous, all junk is included, minimal deletions. A bricolage.

I choose Dolly the sheep as an icon to make connections to represent "wandering",  "sheep paths" and "dolly the cloned sheep"

How about this for a suitabley messy process: just start writing on top of the online version, create your content, link it in then publish it to github pages. Contributors can write on top of that, or drag and drop tiddlers onto their own. 

To be a zine process, it needs to demonstrate speed and DIY ingenuity above all. Punk non prog

I guess it has to TiddlyZine. Or maybe TiddlySkunkWorks -- a fanzine for version XXX pre-release

evoking a skunkworks would highlight the fast and cutting edge aspects of the TW project 

Alex

Alex

[1] https://alexhough.github.io/SheepyWiki7.html

[2] https://alexhough.github.io/TweetWeaver.html

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