I have a cool idea, not sure how to go about it

[David Gifford]

Hi all,

Why am I cursed with so many ideas, but so little time and knowhow to implement them? I am just going to throw this out there. If anyone thinks it is worthwhile to create this, go for it. Not for me, just if you think it is genuinely helpful.

Part 1: a content creator adds tiddlers, and tags them by topic, and tags them by format (advice, reflection questions, links, definitions, etc). The Gen Tags plugin (https://ooktech.com/jed/ExampleWikis/GenericTagFields/) might be a good tool for helping the content creator distinguish types of tags. Or maybe there is a better tool for that.

Part 2: The end user has a control panel to filter by topic, by format, or both:

a) filtering by both and clicking a button produces a tiddler, e.g. "Reflection questions on botany" and the text field shows the text fields of all tiddlers tagged by the tag "Reflection questions" and the tag "Botany".

b) Filtering only by topic produces a tiddler that lists the text field of all the tiddlers tagged by that topic, but grouped by format. ("Entries on Botany, organized by format") Filtering only by format does the opposite, all the tiddlers with that format, grouped by topic ("Reflection questions, organized by topic")

There are, obviously, more uses for this than just "topic and format". "Topic and source (book)" comes to mind, "Recipes by main ingredient and meal type", "Restaurants by location and category", now I am hungry, Songs by artist and some other criteria, etc.

There is a tool called Xlists, which crosses categories, and hints at what I am getting at, but I am thinking of something that makes it easier for both creators and users to quickly view results from combining two types of tags.

Anyway, that is my idea for the morning. I think it would be a very valuable addition to the TiddlyWiki repertoire. If you do too, and know how to create it, please consider it.

Blessings.

[Thomas Stone]

Everything bad is good for someone else. The problem with creating something from someone else's idea is that there isn't any internal motivation. Collaboration is much more likely to produce results.

You should publish a wiki with some "user stories" describing the steps a user would go through to accomplish something meaningful in their life. Then I could flesh out the programmatic steps it would take to get those user steps to work within the reality of a web browser running Javascript stored in an HTML file, and you can update the wiki with more ideas from there. This way you can iteratively see the project coming to life, and gradually learn what trade-offs are needed between theory and reality.

[David Gifford]

Hi positiv... no worries, if you don't have internal motivation by reading the steps I already put, maybe someone else will. I think my description was clear enough. But here is a second try.

1. Content creators

a. Create tiddler

b. tag with topic "Botany" and with format "Definitions" (and perhaps there are two tag fields in edit mode, one for topics, one for formats. I mentioned that Gen tags already does this.

c. Add text "Botany is the science of bots - robots, nanobots, etc" and save tiddler.

d. And so the content creators can 'dump' individual notes quickly that show up automatically in any revelant topics AND any relevant formats.

2. End user (I will upload file to Internet for users to consult)

a. Filters and chooses a topic from a dropdown list, similar to the List-search macro. A tiddler is created with the entries tagged with that topic, with entries grouped under headers, the headers being the various formats. Title, Botany, organized by format. The tiddler mentioned in (1) shows up, under the "Definitions" header

b. Similar process for choosing a format from a dropdown, and getting a tiddler "Definitions (organized by topic)" with topical headers, and tiddlers appear grouped under them as either links or transclusions. The tiddler above appears under the heading "Botany".

c. User also has the option to choose both topic AND format, to produce a tiddler "Botany - Definitions."

d. And so the user can read export or print notes, either filtered by two criteria, or filtered by one and organized by the other.

I think this could be valuable. I can foresee many usecases besides those I personally am interested in. I am not actually asking anyone to do it. But if someone here agrees it is valuable and has the knowhow to do it, great. If not, no worries. Just sharing an idea to see if there is interest. Blessings.

[TW Tones]

David,

I think I understand what you are suggesting and think what ever can help to capture and re-envision the content is an ideal place for tiddlywiki to operate it. I have read it multiple times.

For clarification, in my words.

• is a key part of this idea that new tiddlers can be created from the intersection of two or more "attributes of a tiddler", in this case one or more tags/tags fields and or object-type in this case a definition?
• Then in the new tiddler you can view information as it relates to this intersection?

If I am correct here, may I suggest;

• It may not be necessary to create said tiddler, more just a view that looks like a separate tiddler, until such time as you wish to store something unique for that "intersection" or relationship.

I tend to be a little more abstract in my thinking and try to design for maximum flexibility, so I am inspired by your idea but have not quite digested the full picture yet. Once I do I may be able to make a mechanism or set of mechanism's that let you achieve what you want, but the will offer a broader set of possibilities.

In many ways what you are asking seems to be a way of viewing the results of organising tiddlers with two or more attributes?

Regards

Tones

[Birthe C]

Hi David,

Now that you mentioned Tobias Beers Xlist...I thought I would ad the link here: https://tobibeer.github.io/tw5-xlist/#Welcome .

Birthe

[David Gifford]

Hi Tones

See my responses below

On Monday, October 5, 2020 at 12:01:17 AM UTC-5 TW Tones wrote:

David,

I think I understand what you are suggesting and think what ever can help to capture and re-envision the content is an ideal place for tiddlywiki to operate it. I have read it multiple times.

For clarification, in my words.

• is a key part of this idea that new tiddlers can be created from the intersection of two or more "attributes of a tiddler", in this case one or more tags/tags fields and or object-type in this case a definition?
  

• Then in the new tiddler you can view information as it relates to this intersection?

Yes.

 

If I am correct here, may I suggest;

• It may not be necessary to create said tiddler, more just a view that looks like a separate tiddler, until such time as you wish to store something unique for that "intersection" or relationship.

I was thinking more along the lines of a printable report generated by a control panel, like this:

A control panel with 3 sections:

1. Choose topic (from a dropdown similar to the tag dropdown?), click button.

2. Choose format, click button.

3. Choose both a topic and a format. click button.

Option 1: a new tiddler is created.

Title: [Topic], organized by [format]

Text: List of tiddlers tagged with [Topic], sort [Format] display [Format] as heading, list or transclude tiddlers with [Topic] and [that format] under heading, display next [Format] as heading, list or transclude tiddlers tagged with [Topic] and [Second format] under heading, etc

Option 2: same as 1, but with topic and format inverted

Option 3:

Title: [Topic], [Format] (or something like this)

simple list of tiddlers tagged with that topic and that format.

Two examples of report for option 1:

Title: Birds, organized by formats

Text:

!!!Links

<transclude text of tiddler 1> = Link to National Audubon Society

<transclude text of tiddler 2> = Link to eBird.org

!!! Reflection questions

<transclude text of tiddler 3> = Why are birds so weird?

<transclude text of tiddler 4> = How can we monetize birds?

Title: Breakfast recipes, organized by main ingredient

Text:

!!!Eggs

* [[Ham and cheese omelette]]

* [[Eggs sunny side up]]

!!!Carbs

*[[Tamales]]

!!!Vegetables

*[[Huarache de nopal]]

Notes:

a) you can just dump an idea in a tiddler and tag with both kinds of tags. No organizing.

b) Later, you can automatically see your information, sorted.

c) Bonus points if the user can create their own [1] and [2] filters (instead of [Topic] and [Format], could be [Book topic] and [Book format], [Century] and [Location] (to orgz historical people and events), photos sorted by [Year] and [Location], etc.

d) Bonus points if th user can grow a list of choices for those filters (rather than have to add them at the beginning once, and then is locked in and can't add "Tamales" later)

e) Seems like all this is doable in TiddlyWiki. I know that tiddlers can be sorted in this way in a list filter, complicated though it may be, so there must be a way to filter/input by one or two criteria (tagged x and tagged y) and press a button to generate a pdf-able list for, example, sharing.

[Charlie Veniot]

Don't mind me: I tend to lose the big picture when I hyperfocus on a small detail that is throwing me off.

 

Option 1: a new tiddler is created.

I'm thinking the tiddler (a "Report" tiddler) should already (and always) exist?  i.e. probably not showing anything, but does start showing content based on the selections made ? 

So it isn't so much a tiddler that gets created on the fly based on certain selections, but rather an existing tiddler that already exists (and needs to always exist), and content displayed changes as selections are made?

[Charlie Veniot]

For example:  https://intertwingularityslicendice.neocities.org/CJ_ProductReviews.html

See how the contents of the sidebar changes based on the selected radio button at the top of the sidebar.

This involves a few tiddlers in the sidebar that alter displayed content based on selected radio button.

[David Gifford]

I am starting to think this would be better done with conditional viewtemplates, one for tiddlers tagged Format, and one for tiddlers not so tagged.

[Charlie Veniot]

Just in case there's anything in this tiddler of any use to you (even if just to give you an idea on how to do something, or how to not do something?), check out my "Product Template" tiddler:  https://intertwingularityslicendice.neocities.org/CJ_ProductReviews.html#tProductTiddler

It is a transclusion template that looks at tags to figure out how to display transcluded products based on their tags.

Do keep in mind that I am a barely-yellow-belt TiddlyWiki user, so take all with a heaping dose of skepticism !

I look forward to seeing the good stuff you come up with.  Cheers !

[David Gifford]

Egads, that was a lot of work you did on that tiddler!

[Charlie Veniot]

Yeah, likely best digested while nursing a hot cup o' something or a cold mug o' something.  Well, must it be an either or deal???

You might find this a bit more bite-sized, although maybe an unorthodox approach:  https://intertwingularityslicendice.neocities.org/CJ_ProductReviews.html#Contents

[bimlas]

David,

It doesn’t completely give you a solution to what you’ve written, but maybe they can bring you closer to the solution: 

https://bimlas.gitlab.io/demo//tw5/property-comparison.html -> scroll down to Hamburger and Macaroni

https://youtu.be/vqSKjafeZyE?t=130 -> see https://bimlas.gitlab.io/tw5-locator/ for details

[TW Tones]

David,

My time is limited so I though maybe a good place to start is with tiddly tables to organise the data, once you have the data you can alter the table or its settings for multiple views.

Regards

Tony

[David Gifford]

Wow, bimlas, that is cool! Whether or not it's a good fit for my question will take more investigation, but either way, I will definitely want to study this a bit and see what I can learn from it. Thank you for sharing!

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[David Gifford]

Thanks Tone, I will check that out!

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