[TW5] Announcing Bob version 1.0.0 Sourdough (formerly MultiUser)

[Jed Carty]

Bob version 1.0.0 is now available.

It is the renamed version of the MultiUser plugin. For people who aren't familiar with the old MultiUser plugin the basic features are:

- Serve multiple wikis

- Two-way syncing of changes between the browser and file system

- Multiple people can use and edit served wikis simultaneously

- A static file server for images and other media (include files from the local file system in the wiki)

Changes from the last version of the MultiUser plugin are:

- Changing the name

- Adding a message that lets you stop queued scripts in progress

Plugin repo: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob

Single executable version: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-SingleExecutable/releases/tag/1.0.0

Let me know if you find bugs.

Updating to Bob from MultiUser will take a few changes.

single executable version

If you are using the single executable version then you will need to edit the tiddlywiki.info file in the IndexWiki folder. There is a line (probably line 4) that reads

"OokTech/MultiUser"

change that line to

"OokTech/Bob"

plugin version

If you are using the plugin version, in addition to changing the tiddlywiki.info file for your root wiki, you will need to either: 1) change the remote url of the plugin repo or 2) just delete the old plugin and clone Bob again.

Other than that, everything should be compatible.

If you want to support the development OokTech has a patreon page here

https://www.patreon.com/OokTech

or if you prefer there  is a link for PayPal here

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=ZG94CTLHTKYRE

[TonyM]

Thanks Jed

I will try it out on my return to the big smoke and I plan to donate, unfortunatly the Australian doller is not too strong at the moment.

Great work
Tony

[Jed Carty]

I am answering the last questions from the previous MultiUser thread here to move to a shorter thread for people using this in the browser and because they are relevant here. So please put new replies in this thread instead.

Ed,

1) I have added more default mime-types so as long as I didn't miss any that you want to use you won't have to edit it. But if you do make a mimeMap in the settings it takes precedence over the default version. Unfortunately at the moment removing objects from the settings json isn't quite as straight forward as removing single field properties. To remove your custom mime-map first either rename or delete the tiddler $:/WikiSettings/split/mimeMap and then in the settings in the $:/ControlPanel it should show 

"mimeMap": "$:/WikiSettings/split/mimeMap"

and if you click on the value $:/WikiSettings/split/mimeMap it should let you delete it like a normal field.

2) The "suppressBrowser": "" line is a property that doesn't have a value. If this is set to true than the browser won't open automatically when you start up the single executable version of Bob. Having extra or unused properties in the settings doesn't cause any problems other than possibly visual clutter.

3) I am glad it works well! I am not sure if much of the praise for it working on old hardware should go to me, that sounds like praise for Jeremy and the tiddlywiki devs who have worked on making it efficient.

4) I have no idea how many people could simultaneously edit a wiki at the same time, I haven't had a chance to have more than 3 active people on the same wiki at one time. I did a test where I had 10 or 15 browser windows open at the same time and they all had their own connection without any trouble, but that isn't the same as simultaneous editors. To my knowledge there is no built-in limit to the number of simultaneous connections the server can support so the limit would probably come from hardware or communication limitations. This may be a much longer answer than you were hoping for.

I hope that it could easily support 36 people, each new connection adds almost no overhead on the server. I expect that the biggest problem would be people getting in each others way if they are all trying to edit simultaneously. Another problems is tiddler naming, the only mechanism for preventing overwrites of tiddlers is that the edit button is disabled. If you have 10 people who try to create a tiddler with the same name (like New Tiddler), each one will overwrite the previous persons edits.

There isn't a lot of communication required between the server and the browser. There is the initial page load over http(s) which may be slow for people if you have everyone trying to load it at the same time. That shouldn't kill the server, just slow it down.

When editing a tiddler normally (clicking on the edit button or new tiddler button) there is only one message sent when the tiddler is saved. I have been able to import single file wikis that have hundreds of tiddlers into a Bob wiki without any trouble and for that each tiddler gets its own message sent. That is from one connection instead of having a hundred different messages on a hundred connections, I don't know if that would make a difference.

I have not had a wiki crash because of too many simultaneous edits but it may be possible. I think that a more likely result is losing edits, someone may create a tiddler that doesn't get saved by the server if there are too many tiddlers being created at one time. I haven't seen this happen yet, but I think that is the most likely problem.

Tony,

Let me know if you run into any problems!

[Xavier Cazin]

Hi Jed,

Thanks, I'm eager to test Bob further! One glitch I just noticed, though: after the update, I can't seem to be able to tweak the theme from the control panel, or even change the theme: the new value is saved, but it looks like it is then reversed to its previous state, as if the shadow value took control back.

Cheers,

X.

-- Xavier Cazin

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[Jed Carty]

Xavier,

Every time I fix something some old bug comes back. Thank you for letting me know, I will try and find it. We may get Bob 1.0.1 sooner than I hoped.

[Ed]

Dear Jed,

Wow, you have been really hard at work. May sound like a routine, but I AM really very happy with all that work
that you do. Well you know me.

Yesterday I ran into another bug, but I did not wanted to overload you with even more question (See previous
thread.)

OK, I had downloaded Vim some time ago so to now edit the tiddltwiki.info file. Search & Replace without a hitch.
(Although I have no idea what the extra new files ".tiddlywiki.info.un~" and "tiddlywiki.info~" mean. Is that good
or bad? Here I am really into too deep water. Somebody else so Jed doesn't need to answer'this off-topical one?)

Back to single Executable version and the problem I found. As I always do I want in the page view only to show
the +-NewTiddler icon, the Save icon and the More-icon. I like interfaces that are as uncluttered as possible
and still be able to find everything.

So I went to the Control Panel/Appearance/Toolbars/Page Toolbar. I checked the option for More and three
things happened:
1. The More icon appeared. Fine.
2. In splitsecond the checkmark dissappeared, the little box was empty again. Checkmarks do not persist in boxes.
Not so fine.
3. Whatever I do I can not change the Page ToolBar anymore. Aaarggh.

I did some more clicking around to see if I could replicate this behaviour. Of course of course, I could. Now
I seem to be stuck with a Page ToolBar with the following icons: Home, New Tiddler, Control Panel, Save Changes,
Refresh and More. I won't touch them anymore untill there is a solution.

So this happened yesterday with the last version of MultiUser and today with Bob there is no change. Problem persists.
Cheers! Ed.
= = = = =
.
.








Op zaterdag 12 mei 2018 22:06:21 UTC+2 schreef Jed Carty:

[Jed Carty]

I believe that the files that end with ~ are lock files that are meant to prevent multiple applications from changing the same file at the same time. But I am not certain.

And the problem you are describing is the same as what Xavier mentioned, for some reason shadow tiddlers are not being saved. This happened before and I fixed it but something I did during the last update broke it again.

[Stobot]

Jed - again thank you so much

I'm seeing the same thing as Ed with the settings - noticing on both toolbars and the "fluid story" setting which I always change.

As far as users, the best I was able to test was at work with 8 of us. I setup a edit-text and button to add tiddlers and had all of us add as much as we could, as fast as we could. Worked flawlessly under those conditions - even with people all over the country, some connecting in via VPN to be on-network. I agree that simultaneous edits would be a tougher test, but I plan to design somewhat around that to mitigate it a bit.

Arlen mentioned "don't need executable" - so for what it's worth I feel much differently :) I've been using TiddlyWiki a very long time and relied heavily on TiddlyLock back in what are now the "classic days" for all of my multi-editor wikis. Not until your plugin did I have something that works, and was simple enough to understand for a casual non-IT windows user. I read this community's comments every day and I know the ones most vocal have the knowledge to handle the "normal" solution, but I've been completely lost when trying to figure out any of the other server variants, and I assume I'm not alone, though I certainly *feel* like I'm in the minority. People like me know 0 javascript, know very little about git (have only interacted with it to download your executable) and know very little about how servers work etc. Regardless of my constraints, I've introduced *hundreds* of people at my company alone to TiddlyWiki. I only rant about this because I really want TiddlyWiki to grow and thrive, and I want to make sure the community has a full picture of who their audience is. I suspect if we took the number or readers of this Google Group and subtracted the number of contributors, we'd find a lot like me.

All of which is to say I'm very thankful that you Jed - and the rest of the contributors continue to support this awesome software!

[Jed Carty]

Stobot,

Thanks for testing! That is really good to hear, I was worried about that.

And I should stop referring to the plugin version as the normal version. It is normal in the sense as being the closest to just tiddlywiki, but from the response to this plugin it isn't the most commonly used method.

[Ed]

Hear, hear, Stobot.

I really can understand you plea for the excecutable

Also great Stobot, that you were trying out multi-acces feature.I will have 36 people in the audience
end of May so I could divide them in groups, actually hope that everocy can bring his laptop in the theatre.

If something is going amiss, well that will teach us something, of course I''l forewarn the group, that this
is just version 01. They're supposed to be the kind of people who are very inquisitve, so there really seems
no harm in it.

If anybody else would try out multi-acces with a group of people adding tiddlers, just starting new tiddler,
write some text and close it again to save, then I surely would love to hear about the results.

Tschüß, Edm.
= = = = = = =
.
.

Op zondag 13 mei 2018 14:05:52 UTC+2 schreef Stobot:

[Jed Carty]

This is an odd bug. It is using the shadow tiddlers instead of the normal tiddlers overwriting them. It is either caused by a change in 5.1.17 or by the change that fixed the infinite loop when importing images.

It may be a bit before I track down a fix that won't break something else.

[Jed Carty]

As far as I can tell the current problem is that there are newlines being added to the end of tiddlers. The state tiddlers are saved correctly but they are checked against an exact match and the newline is preventing the match from working.

I still need to find how to fix it. I switched to using the built-in method of saving tiddlers using the renderTiddler function and that is when the problem came in. I may have to switch back to using my custom version.

[Jed Carty]

And that was the 'best' kind of error. Seemingly inconsistent, only discovered after releasing version 1.0.0, caused by invisible whitespace, it only appeared because I fixed another error that had been hiding it and now that I know what happened it is completely obvious.

Version 1.0.1 which hopefully fixes these problems is here:

Single executable: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-SingleExecutable/releases/tag/1.0.1

Plugin: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob

[Ed]

Jed, you're the man! 8-))

And Yes! It works I can put the icons were I want them.
Check the boxes and after refresh uncheck the unwanted ones
and they are gone.
Thanks again for the hard work.

Cheers! Ed

= = = = = =
.
.

Op zondag 13 mei 2018 17:50:48 UTC+2 schreef Jed Carty:

[Stobot]

Jed,

Looks to be all fixed on my end after testing the 64-bit Windows executable. Also noticed that while delete used to generate 4 messages in the "terminal?", it now only does 1 - which makes activity much clearer - I assume that go fixed somewhere along the way.

I should ask - what's the proper way of deleting a wiki after creating one? Is just deleting the file folder sufficient, or is there an in-wiki way of doing it?

Thanks again!

[Jed Carty]

Yes, I removed a lot of redundant messages, each one came from a different part of deleting a tiddler but now that it is mostly stable there should generally only be one.

There is no in-wiki way to delete a child wiki. To delete a wiki delete the folder and in the Bob settings -> manual settings tab remove the wiki from the listed wikis, save the settings and refresh the routes using the buttons there.

I could probably add one but I think that most of the time doing it manually by deleting the folder is acceptable. If people want a delete wiki option inside the wiki itself I can add one, I just need to make sure it isn't easy to accidentally delete something.

[Xavier Cazin]

Hi Jed,

Well done! This bug has ceased to exist!

I may have one or two new ones for your consideration, unless I do something wrong:

• When I create new .tid tiddlers on the filesystem while Bob is running, they don't appear in the wiki, and are even deleted if put at the root of the tiddlers directory.
  
• I don't seem to be able to run scripts that write files (which is kind of useful to tell whether they actually run!). An scripts entry like "test" : "echo 'Hi' >$HOME/hitest.txt" produces no results, or at least I can't find them.

Cheers,

Xavier.

-- Xavier Cazin

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[Jed Carty]

It looks like there is a bug where if you create a new folder in and put a new .tid file inside that folder it isn't found until a server restart. I haven't had any trouble creating tiddlers in folders that already existed and have at least one .tid file in them.

One thing to watch out for is that one side effect of the file system monitor is if a .tid file has a title listed that doesn't match the file name it will rename the file. This may behave strangely if you save a file without a title field or a blank title field.

It also looks like renaming a tiddler by changing the title in the .tid file doesn't remove the old version from the browser.

So there is still work to be done in terms of handling name changes and folders.

This may never be finished.

[Ed]

Dear Jed,

During the daytime I was at the office and installed the new 64bit version on my computer.
That went not without a hitch. I followed standard procedure. I set the host to 0.0.0.0
Stopped the server and restarted. But the host as it were sprang back to 127.0.0.1
Also the host with server info was the same and not changed to 0.0.0.0
That is what is supposed to happenisn't it?
Of course I updated the settings. So I changed the settings by hand and after updating the
settinhs everything was fine.
I''ll try again tomorrow and see what happens, maybe I did do something wrong.

Secondly, when I deleted a tiddler and refreshed the deleted tiddler was again in the Recent tab.
Stopping restarting remedied this. Somebody else mentioned this also I think, but not sure.

Working together over the network was great. I found out that when somebody was editing a tiddler
that same tiddler appeared on my screen with a lock icon. As soon as my colleague finished editing
the lock changed to Pen icon on my screen; Works beautifully instantly. Great.
Are there any other moments when one can expect a lock icon, perhaps.

With regard to the presentation I created a Comments tiddler, with the clone icon. Two of us cloned that
tiddler at the same time and we both had a new tiddler. Told of course that the new titles must be different.
Hope that this will work. Keep testing through this week.
Any way Jed, douze points!!
Cordialement! Ed

Op zondag 13 mei 2018 20:49:34 UTC+2 schreef Jed Carty:

[Stobot]

Ed / Jed,

I just tested it on my end and when I just swapped out the executable I had the same experience with the 0.0.0.0 not "sticking". However when I started it in a *new* folder / renamed existing IndexWiki folder, then it worked properly - hopefully that helps Jed debug. I'm going to assume that when a new version comes out, I'll have to set things up fresh and then import .tid files in manually after the fact.

On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 4:45:46 PM UTC-4, Ed wrote:

Dear Jed,

During the daytime I was at the office and installed the new 64bit version on my computer.
That went not without a hitch. I followed standard procedure. I set the host to 0.0.0.0
Stopped the server and restarted. But the host as it were sprang back to 127.0.0.1
Also the host with server info was the same and not changed to 0.0.0.0
That is what is supposed to happenisn't it?
Of course I updated the settings.

I''ll try again tomorrow and see what happens, maybe I did do something wrong.

Secondly, when I deleted a tiddler and refreshed the deleted tiddler was again in the Recent tab.
Stopping restarting remedied this. Somebody else mentioned this also I think, but not sure.

Working together over the network was great. I found out that when somebody was editing a tiddler
that same tiddler appeared on my screen with a lock icon. As soon as my colleague finished editing

the lock changed to Save on my screen; Works beautifully instantly. Great.

[Mohammad]

Jed
I use Bob 32bit on win10 and chrome 56.
When l change the pallet a tiddler is created with the name of selected pallet as text filed, but in tiddlywiki, you just see a blink and still the old pallet is used. What is wrong here? Saving and reloading does not resolve the issue.

[Jed Carty]

Ed, 

The button to set the host may be set up incorrectly. I did change some things about how setting the host works and I may have missed updating that. For now you may have to do it manually.

A deleted tiddler reappearing sounds like a bug, I will have to track that down when I have time.

Stobot,

have you had any trouble other than the setting the host after you replaced the executable? There may be some problems with the old settings files between the last version of MultiUser and version 1.0.0 of Bob, hopefully moving forward you should be able to just replace the executable file and not worry about the other parts.

Mohammad,

Are you using version 1.0.0? If so there is a bug where some settings files (pallet, story view, theme and some button visibility) were not saved correctly in version 1.0.0 that is fixed in version 1.0.1, so using the newer version should fix the problem.

[TonyM]

Jed,

I am finally exploring Bob. I stated before I am happy to generate some Windows Documentation to support you.

In your previous conversations has it become clearer how to specify external wikis in Windows?

I have Bob running on ports 8084 8085 to avoid conflicts with webDav

I have tiddlyServer running on port 8088 to avoid conflicts with both

I have single file and Node Wikis Which I can happily access with TiddlyServer but in that case "we specify the folders in settings.info" and browse to Node or Single File installs. So its settings.json need be the same as that of Bobs.




If you do not yet have any details please answer these Questions to help me. As a Starter I am using the SingleFileVersion.

'otherwiki': ~/Documents/TiddlyWiki/Wikis/Bob




• In the above example otherwiki is just a name to appear in the link?
• ~/Documents/TiddlyWiki/Wikis/Bob is a path to a folder install of TiddlyWiki? (in which resides a tiddlywiki.info file?)
  
• The Tilde in the above ~ represents the location of the executable?
• In Wikis created from within bob I get as below ".\" this should be the windows equivalent of "~\"

Please tell me, in the single executable version how does it source the editions content? 

If for example I create A TiddlyWiki from the editions say tw5.com-docs

"wikis": {

"tw5docs": ".\Wikis\tw5docs"

The Server Window reads

NodeSettings - Parsed raw settings.
Added route /^\/tw5docs\/?$/
Websockets listening on  8085
Serving on 127.0.0.1:8084
(press ctrl-C to exit)
 syncer-server-WebsocketAdaptor: Dispatching 'save' task: $:/StoryList
new connection

I get http://127.0.0.1:8084/tw5docs as the destination of the link

When I click on this the Server (running bob) terminates and as a result I get Unable to connect in firefox.

With TiddlyServer 

• If I browse to http://127.0.0.1:8088/Instances/Bob/Wikis/tw5docs it also abends, the attached text is its error messages
• However I can Open http://127.0.0.1:8088/Instances/Bob/IndexWiki without trouble.

With bob It autoopens at http://127.0.0.1:8084/ in the index wiki and its fine.

I am totally at a loss, so if you can clarify anything I may be able to proceed.




Please note I would love to add my existing file and folder wikis to Bob but If bob or TiddlyServer cant even access bob created wikis I am at a loss how to proceed.




I have also attached the tw5docs tiddlywiki.info file should it help. 




Thanks in Advance

Tony

[TonyM]

Update;

I just got TiddlyWeb edition created and working from Bob

Tony

[Jed Carty]

Tony,

I will try to answer the questions in order.

0 - Bob doesn't support single file wikis yet, and even when it does it won't be the same as what TiddlyServer does. The plan is to have Bob create a temporary node wiki from the single file wiki so it can have all of Bob features and it will autosave to the single file version. I hope to make switching between using the single html file and node seamless doing this.

1 - otherwiki is just the name given to the wiki. Wikis need to have unique names because they are what determines the url for that wiki. But you can have the same name if you have things like this:

wikis: {
  "group1":{
     "aname": "/some/other/path"
  },
  "aname": "/some/path"
}

where you would have a wiki at localhost:8080/aname and another wiki at localhost:8080/group1/aname, so the full path has to be unique, not specifically the last part.

2 - The paths are to the folders that have the tiddlywiki.info files

3 - The ~ is used in unix systems to point to the home folder of the current user. I don't think that windows has an equivalent. If you replace ~ with 'c:\Users\inmysocks' (and switch / to \) you would get something like what you would have in windows.

4 - In file paths '.' represents the current working directory. Which in this case in the location of the executable. It is how you make relative paths. So './Wikis/tw5docs' would be the same as putting in 'C:\Users\inmysocks\TiddlyWiki\Wikis\tw5docs' assuming that the executable was located in 'C:\Users\inmysocks\TiddlyWiki\'

5 - It looks like you have both Bob and tiddlyserver running at the same time and that error message is something from TiddlyServer. Having both running at the same time for the same wikis is redundant and will most likely just break things. Why are you trying to open a wiki from Bob in tiddlyserver?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Dear Jed & Bob

Jed Carty wrote:

Bob doesn't support single file wikis yet, and even when it does it won't be the same as what TiddlyServer does.

Bloody good idea not to clone what exists. Bob should keep Bob's character: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-k7G9qMdGg

FWIW, Bob turned me on to be able to edit .tids in a text editor in bulk (not when Bob is running!). I like that. It gives me enough of node for my needs without the rest of the milarky I can't cope with.

Regarding support for "single file" TW's...

Practically what I need is only to be able to save a "folder" TW to a single file version.

I doubt I would actually use single file wikis via it. I can't see the advantage (not that I have anything agin it).

Why are you (TonyM) trying to open a wiki from Bob in tiddlyserver?

Regarding using "Folders of Tids" in other apps. I have myself played a bit with including a wiki in TiddlyDesktop (not when Bob is at work!). FWIW, right now I'm using Bob to help make things. And TiddlyDesktop to show off Bob's handiwork. Seems to work out well.

Just my thoughts.
Josiah

[Jed Carty]

Bob should support editing tiddler files while it is running but I haven't done any testing changing many tiddler files simultaneously so I am not sure how it would react.

Also it can already export single file wikis. Documentation is here: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Documentation/WebSocketMessages/WebSocketMessage-buildHTMLWiki.tid

The error Tony showed was an error from TiddlyServer, it looks like it crashes if you try to go to a url it isn't expecting. I don't do development for tiddlyserver so I can't really help with that, it isn't an error with Bob.

[Ed]

Hi jed,

I have to work at the office and at home.
At home the 32bit version and at the office I have to use the 64bit version.

Everything I need on a USB stick seems like an nice option.
But what are the pitfalls, as they surely must be therer?

If it is possuble, can I just us structure the folder and files like this

IndexWiki folder
tiddlyWin.exe
tiddlyWin32.exe
and any other files I need like e.g. PDFs that must be embedded

So executing tiddlyWin.exe at the office and executing tiddlyWin32.exe at home.
Well hope for the best.
Keep up the good work, Jed!
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
.
.

[Jed Carty]

I have a usb stick with wikis on it that I have used with the executables on linux osx and windows. Just put all of the executables in the same folder. There shouldn't be any problems from doing that.

[Ed]

Ah great Jed, thanks for the very speedy reply.
makes life much easier.

Tschüß, Edm.

= = = = = = =
.
.

Op dinsdag 15 mei 2018 13:38:49 UTC+2 schreef Jed Carty:

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ed, Jed & Bob

Bob, as far as I can see, is fully equipped for travel.

You just need ensure all your addressing (settings & in-wiki pointers to local resources) is relative.

[Ed]

Hi TiddlyTweeter,

Thanks for the encouragement!
8-))

Tschüß, Ed

= = = = = =
.
.

Op dinsdag 15 mei 2018 13:51:16 UTC+2 schreef @TiddlyTweeter:

[Arlen Beiler]

Tony, 

Does this path exist? C:\Data\TW5\Instances\Bob\Wikis\tw5.com\tiddlers\system\DefaultTiddlers.tid

Apparently, there needs to be a tw5.com folder in the Wikis folder according to some file. The error has nothing to do with TiddlyServer or Bob, but is rather that there is a folder missing that is supposed to be there according to the tw5.com-docs plugin. Both Bob and TiddlyServer apparently crash when a data folder throws a startup error.

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[TonyM]

Jed,

Thanks for the response, I will process this and Hopefully return some documentation for windows in the end.

• I understood the "otherwiki" was illustrative, The problem has always being confident of how to specify wikis to be opened, clearly I will stop trying single file wikis. and Arlen has pointed out why even some editions created, using bob, fail.
• I also have a problem getting a path to a folder based wiki outside the bob or below bob folders, and trying to resolve this with no confidence in the path statement, has being difficult.
  
• To Test Bob I have being trying to access my existing suite of Tiddly-wikis.
• I have at one point tried the path "../../instances/wikiname" to get above the installed folder and back down another branch (I have to reevaluate this on the basis of no single file wikis)

Why are you trying to open a wiki from Bob in tiddlyserver?

Because I could not open some Bob Created folder wikis any other way, it was purely diagnostic. It showed be that the Bob Created Folder Wikis that failed were not valid NodeJS Folder wikis in either tool. Since it failed in both platforms. I thought the TiddlyServer diagnostics may provide some useful information.

Items to make more Prominent in the Documentation

• Bob only serves TiddlyWiki folders (although it will facilitate the conversion to and from folder wikis and file-based wikis) it will not serve File based wikis
  
• Bob can create TiddlyWiki folders from editions but sometimes further configuration of that edition may be needed
• Paths to wikis only support Folder Based TiddlyWikis
  

I value the functionality of Bob that exists no where else, however from a practical day to day use It would be nice if we could get Bob and TiddlyWiki server functionality somewhat integrated. I understand the different functions and limitations however these are not relevant to organising a suite of TiddlyWikis. It looks as if for me to take advantage of Bob I am going to have to migrate my key File Wikis into folder based wikis and chose when I maintain any wiki as a file only version. Of course running TiddlyServer in parallel on another port, with links to Wikis in my Bob Wikis linked from my own tiddlers, not under bobs "wiki listing" will work.

Don't get me wrong, it may be impossible to provide multi-access to a single File Wiki, but it would not hurt if we could serve single file wikis from Bob as does TiddlyServer, or link, or integrate the two. 

Thanks

Tony

[Jed Carty]

Tony,

You can use absolute paths if that makes things easier, they don't have to be relative.

I haven't had any reason to use single file wikis with it yet which is why support isn't there yet. It will be added as I have time to do it. You can open single file wikis by serving them as static files, but I don't think they are editable that way.

Is there anything from tiddlyserver other than serving single file wikis that bob is missing?

[TonyM]

Jed,

Tiddlserver lets you add paths or directories into settings.json such that you can go to ip:port/path and open any or each single file wiki found in that folder or a folder based wiki if it finds tiddlywiki.info.

This means I can browse to any wiki once there I bookmark it and access it at its address. So the index wiki need not contain links to everything it can serve.

It would be worth you instaling and reviewing for ideas, even work with Arlen.

A hybrid would be awesome.

Regards
Tony

[Jed Carty]

Aside from not having support for editing single file wikis yet I am not sure I understand the difference. Is there a problem with having the wikis listed in the IndexWiki?

[TonyM]

Jed,

First there is no problem, they are different. Until I find a way to replace the features in tiddlyserver within bob, I will have to use both, which is not a problem.

My view is somewhat biased and that has being due to the difficulties I have faced trying To access my existing wikis through bob. I am still to act on information you gave me and I promised to provide windows documentation when I can.

Thanks
Tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Is there a problem with having the wikis listed in the IndexWiki?

Absolutely not. IMO, having links within the base wiki and option to show a list in others is EXACTLY the kind of feature needed in converting "node-ish" for wider usage.

[Jed Carty]

I just noticed that I never answered about how to include editions that aren't packaged in the executable in the list to make new wikis. It uses the output of the same thing that the --editions command uses so you can add custom editions to the list by setting the TIDDLYWIKI_EDITIONS_PATH environment variable the same as in the vanilla node version.

I added an issue to add it as a configuration option. I have been working on Dodo instead of tiddlywiki so I don't know how long it will be before I get around to it.

On osx and linux this works, I don't know how you set environment variables on windows, it may be the same thing.

In a terminal type:

export TIDDLYWIKI_EDITIONS_PATH=/path/to/editions

then type tiddlyLinux or tiddlyOSX.command or tiddlyWin.exe depending on what system you are using.

This probably isn't very helpful for people who didn't already know that, adding the configuration option should make it much easier.

There is nothing special about an edition other than it being listed as an edition, so you can point this to a normal wiki you make and then clone that wiki when you want a new one.

[Mohammad]

Jed, the new version works fine!

Thank you

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed

The only problem with global system path settings is they are not easily portable.  Via internal config might be better?

Yes Windows path setting is just as easy as Linux ... How to do it varies a bit between Windows versions. How it works is identical

[@TiddlyTweeter]

TonyM wrote:

First there is no problem, they are different. Until I find a way to replace the features in tiddlyserver within bob, I will have to use both, which is not a problem.

Have you played with the scripting in Bob yet? I know you are keen on desktop management. You can directly launch Windows apps from it with full command lines, with order to require one to complete before the next starts etc.

This is probably a spin off from Jed's interest in TW control of Robbie the Robot. I think its both amazing and incredibly useful to be able to buttonise and order scripts launching external events from a wiki.

J.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Thinking about this more .... I can't see any reason not to have those at a set sub-address of the install. Its a template set, not wikis in use. Wikis in use need flex-addressing. Personally I prefer templates in a predictable, canonical place.

[TonyM]

Thanks for pointing that Out Josiah,

Can you give any hints to how because I have not yet being able to extract that from the current doco

Regards

Tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

TonyM wrote:

Can you give any hints to how because I have not yet being able to extract that from the current doco

First, in Bob's start-up wiki navigate to ... $:/plugins/OokTech/Bob/readme ... at the foot ... Other Documentation lists relevant items to read. Most relevant to "scripts" is Running Scripts Using Websocket Messages

A basic example ... (1) Under scripts in the configuration of Bob's start-up wiki define a program to run ... for example ...

 

(2) In a Bob wiki (any) create a Button like this ...

<$button>
  Start HTTrack
  <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='htwhack'/>
</$button>

Click. This starts WinHTTrack.

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed:

I have been working on Dodo instead of tiddlywiki so I don't know how long it will be before I get around to it.

Erm, I thought the Dodo was extinct? :-) WHICH Dodo? There are zillions under Google search.

Just interested
Josiah

[TonyM]

Josiah,

Thanks for this hint, it looks so simple, yet I have tried multiple example scripts on my Windows 10 PC and even the simplest causes Bob console to abend and close. The truth is the documentation is minimalist, and I am trying to work it out so I can provide more extensive documentation, yet I face one hurdle after another. I find it hard to determine if it is my mistakes or a bug in Bob, so progress is very slow, If you could possibly give me some more pointers I would appreciate it.

I am currently using the single executable but perhaps I should move to the node install.

Regards

Tony

[Jed Carty]

Tony,

What is a script that you are trying to run? What errors are you getting when it crashes?

TiddlyTweeter,

Dodo is very not ready for public consumption yet. The code is here https://gitlab.com/AndMyAxe/Dodo but I doubt that it will be very interesting to anyone.

[TonyM]

Jed,

Nothing special, I can redo and provide exact code

But I have tried

Josiahs example

dir c: /p

dir c:\

C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe

All cause abends 

Regards

Tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I think there is an issue on the Windows console. I suspect its a simple issue. If you launch a normal windows program from Bob all is fine. But a simple command like "dir" (equivalent to "ls") terminates Bob.

[TonyM]

Exact Code

"scripts": {
"a": "dir c: /p",
"b": "dir c:\",
"c": "C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe", "command": "Is",
"d": "Start C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe"

<$button>
  A
  <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='a'/>
</$button>


<$button>
  B
  <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='b'/>
</$button>


<$button>
  C
  <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='c'/>
</$button>


<$button>
  command
  <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='command'/>
</$button>


<$button>
  D
  <$action-websocketmessage $type='runScript' name='d'/>
</$button>

[TonyM]

But what commands do work?

Reminder I am currently using single exe

Tony

[Ed]

Aah, my dear Jed, there you are wrong with this "I doubt that it will be very interesting to anyone"
I linkclicked and read what you wrote, and I think it is very interesting! That one-node-per-user.
Cutting out the a "middle man" seems pretty fine to me.
Tschüß, Edm.

[Jed Carty]

I haven't come up with anything that works from a terminal on linux or osx that causes any trouble, if I try to make a script that wouldn't work in a terminal than it crashes the wiki. I should fix that, but I don't think that is the problem you are running into because all the commands you have shown here shouldn't give any errors when run.

On osx and linux things like ls and mkdir work fine, on OSX the say command works to read things too. Most of the time I just have it run a bash script by the path like './script.sh'.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Tony.all your examples are command processor commands. Can you launch  a full windows app? There is definitely an issue that the "Console" is misbehaving, once it gets a raw command processor instruction it terminates the console.

[TonyM]

Jed,

You always underestimate the interest you can generate. Not only is there a real need for what you are doing with Dodo but it could form part of other applications. 

I actually have my own Startup in the wings for which I have done substantial design (not coding) work which could use Bob and/or Dodo as part of the platform.

Regards

Tony

On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 9:59:58 AM UTC+10, Jed Carty wrote:

[Jed Carty]

Maybe try adding & to the end of the command? All of the processes run share the same stdout and stderr and windows may have the most recent command take control and kill the parent process when it has finished.

Using

dir &

may keep it from terminating the process.

[Jed Carty]

I know that Dodo has a lot of potential, being able to create a utp connection between any two devices connected to a network without dns or other servers could be incredibly powerful, but at the moment even the other developers that I work with are having trouble following my code and it isn't a working prototype yet. In that way it isn't very interesting yet.

[TonyM]

Jed,

I just lunched a batch file and exe successfully without terminating the console as follows

"e": "C:\Data\batches\runandpause.bat", 

T: "notepad.exe"

In fact run and pause did everything, in the console window

echo off
echo Hi
dir c:\
C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe /K
pause
Notepad.exe
echo any key to end
pause

So there is something causing some scripts to terminate Bob not others

I will investigate, I expect we need to "spawn" a Windows command interpreter rather than execute it in Bobs one if we want to avoid the catastrophic failures.

Now I have progress. 

Thanks

Tony

[TonyM]

Jed,

As a side note to Dodo, I have thought of two apps having a card  (lets call it a tiddler)   each has an encryption key each to a shared resource (another tiddler) that both can see until such time as either can retract access. The idea would be to install everything locally except that which is shared in a single encrypted card. This would only be a one to one relationship and the shared/stored card would not even be readable by the host. Alice chooses what they share in the shared card, Bob chooses what he shares, both can alter details or "burn the link"

In such a model the address  for the connection between any two devices could be done through this shared card, since it represents a one to one connection anyway. These cards could be in a block chain "contract" but that gets real scary to contemplate.

Food for thought

Tony

[Jed Carty]

That is not unlike a system for anonymous credentials that I am doing work on, but block chain is a completely uninteresting technology. The most useful application of block chain ideas remains git commits and they were around for a long time before anyone called it a blockchain.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Dear Bob, Jed & TonyM

Quick update on Windows usage for the RoboBob automation stuff.

All is good so long as you don't send direct commands of the type you'd normally type at the console as they crash it. I THINK it is something to do with the mode the Bob Console is in (& maybe needs?). It doesn't behave quite the same as a normal Windows Command Prompt. Its kinda locked in. BUT I don't think it matters.

Windows BATCH files seem to work perfectly. You can pass parameters to them. And their results show up in the console.

Windows full executables work without any issue and will take parameters.

Next I'll test running a series of commands.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Bob & Jed

I find intriguing that the wikis that Bob creates seem to be aware about Bob?

I mean, I can run a script in .\Wikis\katex\ that needs to get that from Bob. How does that work? How does "katex" know?

As I get into the automation I'm looking at ways to minimise the amount of typing (and errors) I make on paths. I started doing stuff like this ... basic boilerplate, wiki-by-wiki ... (just change the value in first line for each Wiki)

\define twName() katex
\define tidsAt() .\Wikis\$(twName)$\tiddlers\*.tid
\define sfFrom() .\Wikis\$(twName)$\output\index.html
\define sfTo() ..\..\pages\tw\tw_$(twName)$\$(twName)$.html

<$button>
  Edit ''{{$:/SiteTitle}}'' Tid files
  <$action-websocketmessage $type=runScript name=editpad #path=<<tidsAt>> #instance='/newinstance'/>
</$button>
<br>at: <<tidsAt>>

<$button>
  Make a ''{{$:/SiteTitle}}'' single file
  <$action-websocketmessage $type='buildHTMLWiki'/>
</$button>
<br>at: <<sfFrom>>

<$button>
  Copy ''{{$:/SiteTitle}}'' single file to new home
  <$action-websocketmessage $type=runScript name=copySFwiki #from=<<sfFrom>> #to=<<sfTo>> />
</$button>
<br>copy: <<sfFrom>>
<br>to: <<sfTo>>

<$button>
  Start HTTrack
  <$action-websocketmessage $type='

runScript' name='htwhack'/>
</$button>

The scripts are ...


But I'm not so sure its the most efficient way because there is something about shared knowledge between Bob and the plebeian Wiki's I maybe not properly grasping?

Hope this is clear enough?

Best wishes
Josiah

[Jed Carty]

I think that the problem with the windows commands is from all of the commands sharing the same io streams. I can add an option to have a command run with its own terminal instead of in the shared terminal with Bob and that may help. The downside is that it may spawn a new window for each script that runs.

I am not sure what the differences between bash and the windows command prompt are that may cause this but that is the only thing I can come up with that may fix it.

TiddlyTweeter,

All of the wikis share the same settings that you can only edit from the root wiki. The settings go with the node process, not with the specific wiki. I looked into per-wiki settings but so far I haven't run into a situation where it would be helpful.

There is a tiddler called $:/WikiName that has the name of the current wiki that is used by the back-end, so you can just transclude that instead of defining it in the macro. And the buildHTMLWiki message can take outputFolder and outputName parameters that you can use to set the location of the generated html file so you may not need to manually copy them after they are created. Other than that I think you are doing it about as efficiently as is possible at the moment.

Have you run into any troubles with the generated html files? I had seen some strange behaviour where I wasn't always able to import them into other wikis by dragging and dropping the html but I haven't been able to test it out much yet.

[TonyM]

Josiah,

I think the direct answer, in common language,  to "How does "katex" know?" is actually the address  eg: http://127.0.0.1:8084/katex actually means go to the host http://127.0.0.1:8084 (bob) who then serves /katex So Bob is doing the serving of Katex and "is present when viewing katex"

Regards

tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed Carty wrote:

I think that the problem with the windows commands is from all of the commands sharing the same io streams. I can add an option to have a command run with its own terminal instead of in the shared terminal with Bob and that may help. The downside is that it may spawn a new window for each script that runs.

Having a separate terminal window on Windows could be useful. But not if it changes the current behaviour. As an additional feature, Yes, definitekly. As a standard way of running, No. Reason being it complicates things for more routine procedures where a simple batch file will do the job already in the primary console.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed : All of the wikis share the same settings that you can only edit from the root wiki.

TonyM : So Bob is doing the serving of Katex and "is present when viewing katex"

Okay. So does this mean that if I define global variables in Bob ("father & mother"/"Bob & Roberta") all of its children know them?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed ...

There is a tiddler called $:/WikiName that has the name of the current wiki that is used by the back-end, so you can just transclude that instead of defining it in the macro. And the buildHTMLWiki message can take outputFolder and outputName parameters that you can use to set the location of the generated html file so you may not need to manually copy them after they are created.

Thank you for the clarification! It will help a lot. 

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed...

Have you run into any troubles with the generated html files? I had seen some strange behaviour where I wasn't always able to import them into other wikis by dragging and dropping the html but I haven't been able to test it out much yet.

I have not had any troubles yet. I will let you know if I do.

[TonyM]

I doubt it. Just as we would not expect it on tiddlyserver.

However the scripts and other bob specifics would.

The ip and port is where bob hosts its root wiki and "mounts" other wikis as folders.

Of course just as Jed made the wikiname available he may be able to do more like let bob share some tiddlers to all children. That may make what you ask posible, by sharing a tiddler tagged macros.

Only Jed can answer.

Regards
Tony

[Jed Carty]

TiddlyTweeter,

You can put anything you want into the Bob settings and they will be the same in every wiki, and the getSettings macro can be used to access them. I haven't done a lot of testing with this in child wikis so there may be bugs. https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Documentation/Macros/getSettingMacro.tid

Global macros and variables are only in their own wikis, there isn't anything to share them yet. I am trying to find the best way to share tiddlers between wikis. I will probably set it up so you can set a filter that gives the tiddlers that will be shared with all the wikis. I am not sure how to handle editing shared tiddlers, they may not be editable outside of their original wiki.

[TonyM]

Jed,

The sharing of tiddlers to children, can they be done using nodeJS settings as can be done to share a plugin Library?

I have built my own tiddler sharing mechanism for all wikis including file based Wikis,  and using iframes to drag and drop between them. As stated previously this is a Bob advantage because of its multi-access features.

Some thoughts of concern

If you do enable shared Tiddlers can I suggest you keep it as providing a mechanism for designers, perhaps with an example, however try not to over complicate the interface as this will add fragility to your solution and may demand more effort on your part to maintain.  The time is coming for others to help extend what Bob can do through adding third party solutions on top. Of course any advances on Bobs features are welcome, you have being very responsive to us all, we depend on you for the platform, we need to take some responsibility for solutions on Top of Bob.

Thanks Heaps

tony

[Mark S.]

The manual directions say to:

cp -r TiddlyWiki5/plugins/OokTech/Bob/BobWiki TiddlyWiki5/Wikis/BobWiki/

But the "BobWiki" subdirectory does not appear to have been made when following the prior directions.

I see that there is a "MultiUserWiki" dir. So ... perhaps that is what is intended?

Thanks!
Mark

On Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 1:06:21 PM UTC-7, Jed Carty wrote:

Bob version 1.0.0 is now available.

It is the renamed version of the MultiUser plugin. For people who aren't familiar with the old MultiUser plugin the basic features are:

- Serve multiple wikis

- Two-way syncing of changes between the browser and file system

- Multiple people can use and edit served wikis simultaneously

- A static file server for images and other media (include files from the local file system in the wiki)

Changes from the last version of the MultiUser plugin are:

- Changing the name

- Adding a message that lets you stop queued scripts in progress

Plugin repo: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob

Single executable version: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-SingleExecutable/releases/tag/1.0.0

Let me know if you find bugs.

Updating to Bob from MultiUser will take a few changes.

single executable version

If you are using the single executable version then you will need to edit the tiddlywiki.info file in the IndexWiki folder. There is a line (probably line 4) that reads

"OokTech/MultiUser"

change that line to

"OokTech/Bob"

plugin version

If you are using the plugin version, in addition to changing the tiddlywiki.info file for your root wiki, you will need to either: 1) change the remote url of the plugin repo or 2) just delete the old plugin and clone Bob again.

Other than that, everything should be compatible.

If you want to support the development OokTech has a patreon page here

https://www.patreon.com/OokTech

or if you prefer there  is a link for PayPal here

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=ZG94CTLHTKYRE

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed

Further to the posts before (below) ... I just noticed that if you start Windows apps using scripts that when you terminate Bob it also terminates those apps. (FYI, they are not "calls" which would pause Bob, they have their own memory space and run fine & don't interfere).

Could there be way to have flag on script launch that created a separate process that isn't a child of Bob? Such that it could persist after Bob expires?

Hope this is clear!
Josiah

[Jed Carty]

TiddlyTweeter,

That is probably caused my the same thing as the child processes closing the wiki in windows but this one may happen on osx and Linux also.

I think the same solution will work but I don't think I will get to it until I am back in Paris.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

That it is not, probably, just Windows, is encouraging. Meaning a universal solution for all OS is likely gonna work.

I am in no hurry. Just wanted to check you grasped the issue. J x

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed Carty wrote:

... I am trying to find the best way to share tiddlers between wikis. I will probably set it up so you can set a filter that gives the tiddlers that will be shared with all the wikis.

Ciao Jed, I have a Use Case that might be relevant.

For every wiki created by Bob main wiki I would like a few additional Tiddlers included automatically if possible ..

   1 - A Tiddler that contains standard automated tasks (via several buttons) every Wiki may need to perform. It draws on the scripts and uses relative pathing.

   2 - A Tiddler that contains code that is useful for tidyng-up once you created a Single File version to delete Tiddlers no longer relevant that pertain to automation that is not possible in the Single File version.

 ... those are two examples ... you get the idea? To use the brilliant automation to make management easier.

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Further to my last. I did NOT mean you write those Tiddlers, I mean I have written them already, custom to my use case. I meant whether on creation of a Wiki one could have transfer in a few extra Tiddlers that are, perhaps, kept in a dedicated directory? Something like that.

On Tuesday, 5 June 2018 12:46:39 UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Jed Carty wrote:

... I am trying to find the best way to share tiddlers between wikis. I will probably set it up so you can set a filter that gives the tiddlers that will be shared with all the wikis.

Ciao Jed, I have a Use Case that might be relevant.

For every wiki created by Bob main wiki I would like a few additional Tiddlers included automatically if possible ..

   1 - A Tiddler that contains standard automated tasks (via several buttons) every Wiki may need to perform. It draws on the scripts and uses relative pathing.

   2 - A Tiddler that contains code that is useful for tidyng-up once you created a Single File version to delete Tiddlers no longer relevant that pertain to automation that is not possible in in the Single File version.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

So far I haven't been able to get "getSettings" to work. I think I need an illustrated example to "twig" it.

Jed Carty wrote:

You can put anything you want into the Bob settings and they will be the same in every wiki, and the getSettings macro can be used to access them. I haven't done a lot of testing with this in child wikis so there may be bugs. https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob/blob/master/Documentation/Macros/getSettingMacro.tid

Best wishes
Josiah

[Jed Carty]

TiddlyTweeter,

I have plans to have an optional property of the message to build an html file that takes a filter of tiddlers to exclude from the final html file. I think that will cover 2.

I have a few separate things that will hopefully take care of 1, but your suggestion may be the most direct way.

I think that your suggestion is equivalent to using multiple editions to create a new wiki, which I think is supported in the core, I just don't have support for it when creating a wiki through Bob. I have some ideas on how to make an interface that would allow multiple editions to be selected without being too cluttered but I may not get around to implementing that for a while.

My other idea is adding an optional filter to the message attributes that lists tiddlers from existing wikis to be added to the new wiki created. This would make it consistent with the rest of how Bob works. I am not sure how it would handle naming conflicts which may be a problem.

Would any of that let you do what you want to do?

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed Carty wrote:

... There is a tiddler called $:/WikiName that has the name of the current wiki that is used by the back-end, so you can just transclude that instead of defining it in the macro.

Thanks for info on $:/WikiName. That I, with some help from Mark S., is working well in child Wiki.

And the buildHTMLWiki message can take outputFolder and outputName

Good tip. I think there is a bug in it. It creates wiki fine where you want them but it seems to ignore "outputName" example ...

\define sfTo() ..\..\..\..\pages\tw\tw_$(twName)$

<$set name=twName value={{$:/WikiName}}>

<$button>
  ''Make a <<twName>>'' single file
  <$action-websocketmessage $type='buildHTMLWiki' outputFolder=<<sfTo>> outputName='PerryMason.html' />
</$button>

</$set>

 Result is file is still named "index.html" ...

Build Wiki
Built Wiki:  C:\bag\pages\tw\tw_katex\index.html

Best wishes
Josiah

[Jed Carty]

Oh, yeah. It looks like that is a bug. I just looked at the code and after doing everything to use the name you give it just uses index.html anyway. I will fix it but I don't think that the single executable version is going to be updated until I get back to Paris.

For the getSettings macro I put in the wrong syntax for calling a macro. I put key="First##;Second" instead of key:"First##Second". You can just drop the key part and use this:

<<getSetting ws-server##host>>

that example should work in any wiki served by Bob because the host is always set, so if you run into a situation where it doesn't work let me know.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Thanks. Got it. That works fine for "<<getSetting ws-server##host>>" in a child wiki.

Is it supposed to work if I create my own settings too?

J.

Jed ...

For the getSettings macro I put in the wrong syntax for calling a macro. I put key="First##;Second" instead of key:"First##Second". You can just drop the key part and use this:

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed Carty wrote:

... I will fix it but I don't think that the single executable version is going to be updated until I get back to Paris.

To try make it a bit easier for you I went on GitHub intending to raise an Issue that pointed to what we discussed. Your new GitHub setup, even after I did "x" in the right boxes, didn't let me post :-(. Not sure what the issue was. I was logged in.

Just letting you know.
Josiah

[Jed Carty]

The settings have worked for me in different wikis. You can only set them in the root wiki and you have to remember to click the 'update settings' button after adding or changing the settings.

[Jed Carty]

It looks like the settings tiddlers are not updated in child wikis if they are loaded before the changes are made. This may be a bit more complex to fix.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

It looks like it works fine after restart. I played with it. After closing and reopening Bob the items appear in child wiki ...

In Bob settings I put ...

... and (after restart) using the "<<getSetting xxx##xxx>>" got, correctly, back, in a child wiki, no problem.

Fabulous stuff! Thanks!

[@TiddlyTweeter]

A silly question for Bob. Can Bob program my kettle to boil at 6.45 am?

[Jed Carty]

There are a few ways to make a plugin for Bob that would make your kettle turn on at 6:45am.

My favourite option is to make Bob start singing off key as loudly as possible until the kettle is turned on.

If you are looking for a more direct method than it depends on how well your kettle plays with others.

I am looking forward to the day when Robbie and Bob start playing together and take over the world.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed Carty wrote:

There are a few ways to make a plugin for Bob that would make your kettle turn on at 6:45am.

My favourite option is to make Bob start singing off key as loudly as possible until the kettle is turned on.

rofl!

If you are looking for a more direct method than it depends on how well your kettle plays with others.

I am looking forward to the day when Robbie and Bob start playing together and take over the world.

It might get better that way.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed.

This just feedback. I been using Bob to open all .tids in a Wiki and it edits fine. I not had any problems. Occasionally if I'm idiot enough to edit a Tid in TW and a text editor simultanously, whichever saves first wins :-)

Windows users just need to be sure that their plain text editing program does not "lock" files.

Josiah.

Jed Carty wrote:

Bob should support editing tiddler files while it is running but I haven't done any testing changing many tiddler files simultaneously so I am not sure how it would react.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed.  I worked out how to set an environmental variable for Bob path to TIDDLYWIKI_EDITIONS_PATH that would be properly portable and not change the registry. Set via Windows before Bob starts...

set TIDDLYWIKI_EDITIONS_PATH=%cd%\tpl

result ...

C:\bag\PortableApps\twBOB\tpl\

In that directory there will be a sub-directory for each "edition." Currently it has ...

... katex2\

That is a test clone of one wiki I have working already.

Maybe I don't understand how it works? Anyway I don't see an option to select it come up on the menu to select a wiki.

Any tips appreciated.
Josiah

Josiah: The only problem with global system path settings is they are not easily portable.  Via internal config might be better?

Jed Carty wrote:

I just noticed that I never answered about how to include editions that aren't packaged in the executable in the list to make new wikis. It uses the output of the same thing that the --editions command uses so you can add custom editions to the list by setting the TIDDLYWIKI_EDITIONS_PATH environment variable the same as in the vanilla node version.

I added an issue to add it as a configuration option.

[Jed Carty]

Unfortunately for external editors competing with the built-in editor there isn't much I can do. I don't want to touch the behaviour of the draft tiddlers and they don't update when the original tiddler changes, I think that is good behaviour. And of course I have no control over any external editor. I think that this is just going to be a limitation for now. 

For setting the environment variable I don't know where the problem is. It may be that node doesn't correctly interpret the placeholder. I am in the process of releasing version 1.0.2 which lets you set the location in the settings and supports relative paths.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I agree with you about it being a good behaviour on editing actually. I'm getting done what I need to with virtually no issues.

Jed Carty wrote:

Unfortunately for external editors competing with the built-in editor there isn't much I can do. I don't want to touch the behaviour of the draft tiddlers and they don't update when the original tiddler changes, I think that is good behaviour. And of course I have no control over any external editor. I think that this is just going to be a limitation for now.

On environment variable I'll wait. Is no kind of problem. Its not anyway urgent.
 

[David Gifford]

Been a month, but I finally updated Multiuser to Bob in the toolmap.