An Outliner StoryView Prototype

[BurningTreeC]

Hi community,

here's an outliner storyview I'm working on:

http://outlineproto.tiddlyspot.com/

It's not perfect - I'd just like to hear what you think what's good and what needs to be sorted out

all the best, BurningTreeC

[Mark S.]

Looks promising!

How to you change the order?

Why do you need to save to a TOC? Is the structure not saved otherwise?

-- Mark

[BurningTreeC]

Am Sonntag, 3. Juni 2018 18:56:12 UTC+2 schrieb Mark S.:

Looks promising!

How to you change the order?

Changing the order is currently only possible for the first level through the open tab in the sidebar.

Subtiddlers are tagged with their parent tiddler and so they may be sortable by clicking their tagpill, but I'd like to have buttons for that and to have them draggable 

Why do you need to save to a TOC? Is the structure not saved otherwise?

The structure is saved -> the created tiddlers are tagged with their parent tiddlers

Saving it to a toc just shows what can be done.

Because in outline view all tiddlers are in edit mode I think one may want to switch to the normal view and have the toc there.

Currently the 1-level tiddlers get their tag through the save outline dialog. But i think I'll make it automatically tag all outline tiddlers with a tag that identifies them being part of this outline

BTC 

[TonyM]

Hi Burning Tree,

I seems great for brainstorming or rapid capture of structures.

How do we create siblings rather than children and is there  way to outline from an existing tiddler already tagging other tiddlers?

I would love to see this somewhat independent so at can be used for any hierarchical tagged list.   I am in fact building my own outliner that is more a viewer of the tiddlers in a hierarchy but allowing custom tiddler footers, headers and features inspired by TWOutlier. I could see using your solution for the initial brainstorm or new subtrees.

It seems to me if your tool can be synergistic rather than an alternative outliner where it is somewhat standalone, all the better, because it could be used along side other solutions.

Outliners seem all the rage in the community of late.

Regards

Tony

[Mohammad]

Great piece of work!

For me Alt+Right and Alt+Left does not work!

(Windows 10 + Chrome 66)

[Mohammad]

One more question:

 How Alt+O works? Does chat set/unset some stylesheet tiddlers (i.e tagged a tiddler with $:/tags/Stylesheet) or use a macro to activate the outliner view?

On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 9:15:31 PM UTC+4:30, BurningTreeC wrote:

[BurningTreeC]

Great piece of work!

For me Alt+Right and Alt+Left does not work!

(Windows 10 + Chrome 66)

You can change shortcuts in the ControlPanel -> KeyboardShortcuts

 How Alt+O works? Does chat set/unset some stylesheet tiddlers (i.e tagged a tiddler with $:/tags/Stylesheet) or use a macro to activate the outliner view?

It's actually a startup module for keyboard shortcuts that recognizes them globally.

It's all in the tiddler $:/core/modules/startup/keyboard.js.

I made a pull request on github for this but don't know if it gets merged - I'm thinking about making it a plugin. We'll see ...

 

You can add your own shortcuts by creating a tiddler $:/config/ShortcutInfo/my-action and a description in its text field

Another tiddler gets a field "key" with the value: ((my-action)) ... in its text field you can put actions that get executed when you hit the key-combination you define for "my-action" in the KeyboardShortcuts tab 

BTC

[BurningTreeC]

Hi @Tony 

 

Hi Burning Tree,

I seems great for brainstorming or rapid capture of structures.

How do we create siblings rather than children and is there  way to outline from an existing tiddler already tagging other tiddlers?

1st - level siblings are created either by the new-tiddler button or Alt-N (you can change that combo in the ControlPanel). Alt-J creates a new Journal.

Siblings of subtiddlers are created by hitting ENTER when their parent is focused (click inside or navigate to it using TAB or SHIFT-TAB

I would love to see this somewhat independent so at can be used for any hierarchical tagged list.   I am in fact building my own outliner that is more a viewer of the tiddlers in a hierarchy but allowing custom tiddler footers, headers and features inspired by TWOutlier. I could see using your solution for the initial brainstorm or new subtrees.

That's cool, I'd like to see your work in the end! Making this independent within tiddlers in the normal view would also be possible. Good idea!

I like the separate view, too - for focusing on the current task. But I'll make both I think. 

It seems to me if your tool can be synergistic rather than an alternative outliner where it is somewhat standalone, all the better, because it could be used along side other solutions.

Outliners seem all the rage in the community of late.

In fact I was inspired by @David Gifford's NoteSlam 

BTC

[Mohammad]

@BurningTreeC, This is amazing! Thank you. 

I can use this for my Tiddlyshow pluging, both to define shortcut keys and also for creating the structure of presentation in outline view.

Go ahead! I hope Jeremy accept the pull request.

Best 

Mohammad

[BurningTreeC]

@BurningTreeC, This is amazing! Thank you. 

I can use this for my Tiddlyshow pluging, both to define shortcut keys and also for creating the structure of presentation in outline view.

Go ahead! I hope Jeremy accept the pull request.

Yeah I hope so - I've asked if they still consider it for merging because I'd like to bring it out to the wilds... 

It's actually not only the keyboard.js tiddler - there are some changes in other tiddlers, too. So getting only that tiddler would make it work with quirks.

I consider waiting for either the prerelease version if it gets merged or the plugin if not.

BTC

[Mohammad]

Wish it happens in 5.1.18

[David Gifford]

Hi BurningTreeC

Wow that is great! It took me a while to catch on, but when I did...!

Comment: You are going to need more 'step-by-step' instructions for new users, maybe even help the user create a sample outline. I am still not sure I know how to use it properly. I can see this is going to be really great. But without clear instructions, I can't harness the full extent of its greatness yet. FOMO.

Comment: there are times where a tiddler in the outline has no arrow next to it, so I have to click it once to see the arrow, then again to open the arrow to reveal the lower layers. If there were a way to avoid that second step that would be good.

Idea: maybe a save button for each tiddler in outline view since by doing alt-N the user is creating open drafts.

Idea: a smaller font size will allow more of the outline to be visible on screen.

Again, this is a really great and promising piece of work. I have added it to the toolmap even though it still a prototype, so people who go there can get the link.

[BurningTreeC]

Hi BurningTreeC

Wow that is great! It took me a while to catch on, but when I did...! 

Comment: You are going to need more 'step-by-step' instructions for new users, maybe even help the user create a sample outline. I am still not sure I know how to use it properly. I can see this is going to be really great. But without clear instructions, I can't harness the full extent of its greatness yet. FOMO.

Thanks David, this is a child of your NoteSlam :) ! 

Comment: there are times where a tiddler in the outline has no arrow next to it, so I have to click it once to see the arrow, then again to open the arrow to reveal the lower layers. If there were a way to avoid that second step that would be good.

Yes, most of the time tiddlers should be automatically in edit mode and one should see the edit template. when a tiddler needs to be clicked then it's the view-template - which I need to adapt better 

Idea: maybe a save button for each tiddler in outline view since by doing alt-N the user is creating open drafts.

Yeah that's also a point I'm thinking about - tiddlers get automatically saved when new subtiddlers get created - but remain draft tiddlers

I want to refine the saving somehow so that they always get saved without extra saving-interaction... don't know if it's a bad idea but it's somehow in the spirit of "fast-outlining" 

Idea: a smaller font size will allow more of the outline to be visible on screen.

Alt-Dash makes the font smaller, Alt-Plus makes it bigger. I consider making it one/two steps smaller by default

Again, this is a really great and promising piece of work. I have added it to the toolmap even though it still a prototype, so people who go there can get the link.

Thanks, I always appreciate your List being accessible for all and your work keeping it up to date!

BTC

[David Gifford]

Speaking of Noteslam, I am really getting into using it for taking notes on books.

Here are my notes for one book. http://giffmex.org/experiments/the.shrink.and.the.sage.baggini.html

David Gifford

Mexico team leader, Mexico City

Resonate Global Mission
Engaging People. Embracing Christ.
A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
resonateglobalmission.org

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[BurningTreeC]

@David, looks really good!

I see you are working with the tiddler-captions, I am using the tiddler titles directly. Your method has some advantages...

The book seems to be a good reading, too!

BTC

[David Gifford]

Yes, great book by Baggini. Every page had something interesting to chew on.

For my personal use I used captions because I wanted more control over formatting within the outline, and the advantage of ordering list items as disconnected from the visible titles. But I knew that for public consumption title links in the outline is easier and more straightforward, so Noteslam is done that way.

David Gifford

Mexico team leader, Mexico City

Resonate Global Mission
Engaging People. Embracing Christ.
A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
resonateglobalmission.org

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[TonyM]

BTC,

Just a little constructive feedback.

I would love a method of creating siblings without selecting the parent. In fact I would personally value <enter> creating siblings rather than children with a right arrow creating children. Enter for siblings is in fact more intuitive because enter in a text editor is new line, in a spread sheet next line (cell).

I wonder it we could selectively display and hide an info panel of the keyboard shortcuts on the outline view?

I am not sure if I will go to the effort to publish the viewer I am developing since it is quite complex although I expect to publish related technology, and the design principals I have "discovered".

These include

• Custom Toolbars
• The viewer tiddler model (below)
• Custom view Template(s)

But the main design principal is using an outliner that displays the tiddler in a view to the right of the selected tiddler (Like TWOutlier) allows the designer to introduce their own headers, footers,  almost as if they were using another TiddlyWiki altogether but all in a single tiddler (wrapper), such that closing the viewer one finds themself back in the core tiddlywiki with the standard (or modified) view/edit templates and toolbars. In some ways I could see solutions being distributed this way rather than taking over the whole wiki with customisations, all the customisations take place within the "custom View Tiddler". If these custom views are designed correctly, a bit like your http://outlineproto.tiddlyspot.com/ Then we can look at the wikis data via more than one "curated" or functional view (perspective). Pick the view that suits the current workflow or application with confidence you will not "damage" any other  workflow or application.

Regards

Tony

Goodwork

Thanks

Tony

[Mohammad]

@BTC

For shortcut based on your description I learned I have to define three tiddlers. For example if I want to have a shortcut for oppening all tiddlers tagged with learning I need the follwoing tiddlers

1. $:/config/ShortcutInfo/open-myTag    (text: Open my tiddlers tagged with learning)
   
2. $:/config/shortcuts/open-myTag         (text: alt-V)
   
3. $:/KeyboardShortcut/open-myTag     (tag: $:/KeyboardShortcut,   key: ((open-myTag)) )
   

and the text of $:/KeyboardShortcut/open-myTag 

<$list filter="[tag[learning]]">

<$action-navigate $to=<<currentTiddler>> />

</$list>

I save the wiki and reload it! Then press alt+V nothing happened. What is the problem ?

/Mohammad

[BurningTreeC]

@BTC

For shortcut based on your description I learned I have to define three tiddlers. For example if I want to have a shortcut for oppening all tiddlers tagged with learning I need the follwoing tiddlers

1. $:/config/ShortcutInfo/open-myTag    (text: Open my tiddlers tagged with learning)
   
2. $:/config/shortcuts/open-myTag         (text: alt-V)
   
3. $:/KeyboardShortcut/open-myTag     (tag: $:/KeyboardShortcut,   key: ((open-myTag)) )
   

Yes that's right. You wouldn't need the 2nd tiddler because it gets created when you set the shortcut in the ControlPanel 

and the text of $:/KeyboardShortcut/open-myTag 

<$list filter="[tag[learning]]">

<$action-navigate $to=<<currentTiddler>> />

</$list>

I save the wiki and reload it! Then press alt+V nothing happened. What is the problem ?

I forgot mentioning that you need the tag "$:/tags/KeyboardShortcut" on the tiddler with the action and the "key" field

Then it works without reloading 

/Mohammad

[BurningTreeC]

BTC,

Just a little constructive feedback.

I would love a method of creating siblings without selecting the parent. In fact I would personally value <enter> creating siblings rather than children with a right arrow creating children. Enter for siblings is in fact more intuitive because enter in a text editor is new line, in a spread sheet next line (cell).

Yes, sounds good. I didn't think about it. In the end all shortcuts will be configurable in the ControlPanel - most already are. The one for siblings isn't existent right now, I'll add that. 

I wonder it we could selectively display and hide an info panel of the keyboard shortcuts on the outline view?

Yes, that's something I already wanted to do. I'd like to make the bottom right popup more useful with a cheatsheet, outline-saving and loading options and whatever good idea comes up

I am not sure if I will go to the effort to publish the viewer I am developing since it is quite complex although I expect to publish related technology, and the design principals I have "discovered".

These include

• Custom Toolbars
• The viewer tiddler model (below)
• Custom view Template(s)

But the main design principal is using an outliner that displays the tiddler in a view to the right of the selected tiddler (Like TWOutlier) allows the designer to introduce their own headers, footers,  almost as if they were using another TiddlyWiki altogether but all in a single tiddler (wrapper), such that closing the viewer one finds themself back in the core tiddlywiki with the standard (or modified) view/edit templates and toolbars. In some ways I could see solutions being distributed this way rather than taking over the whole wiki with customisations, all the customisations take place within the "custom View Tiddler". If these custom views are designed correctly, a bit like your http://outlineproto.tiddlyspot.com/ Then we can look at the wikis data via more than one "curated" or functional view (perspective). Pick the view that suits the current workflow or application with confidence you will not "damage" any other  workflow or application.

Would be interesting to see! 

Regards

Tony

Goodwork

Thanks

Tony

Thanks Tony,

BTC 

[Mohammad]

Still no success!

[BurningTreeC]

@Mohammad

 

Still no success!

Ah then it can only be the navigator widget which isn't defined for the keyboard shortcut action.

Change your actions to this:

<$navigator story="$:/StoryList" history="$:/HistoryList">

<$list filter="[tag[learning]]">

<$action-navigate $to=<<currentTiddler>> />

</$list>

</$navigator>

 This is needed for the action-navigate widget and many other messages like tm-new-tiddler, tm-navigate, tm-edit-tiddler ...

[Mohammad]

@BTC

Wonderful! Now It works like charm!

Thank you

[Mohammad]

By the way, I followed the pull request for adding sortcuts by you at Github/Tiddlywiki, and to me it seems they reacts slowly, may be they are very busy!

For short-term if I want to use this shortcuts in another wiki is it enough to import the $:/core/modules/startup/keyboard.js.

Thank you again BTC for all your efforts.

[BurningTreeC]

By the way, I followed the pull request for adding sortcuts by you at Github/Tiddlywiki, and to me it seems they reacts slowly, may be they are very busy!

For short-term if I want to use this shortcuts in another wiki is it enough to import the $:/core/modules/startup/keyboard.js.

Yes I think that is the case... there's also a restructuring process going on - so reasons may be various.

I've made a plugin of it in the meantime, because importing only keyboard.js is not enough.

The plugin: http://keeboord.tiddlyspot.com/

[Mohammad]

Thank you BTC!

Great job!

I hope Jeremy take action on this a bit sooner!

[David Gifford]

Glad I saw this here, I didn't see it when you came out with it. I added KeeBoord to the TiddlyWiki toolmap, in its own category, "Writing and editing - keyboard shortcuts"

David Gifford

Mexico team leader, Mexico City

Resonate Global Mission
Engaging People. Embracing Christ.
A Ministry of the Christian Reformed Church
resonateglobalmission.org

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[Mohammad]

Thank you BTC.

 I got the plugin working!

Best

Mohammad

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Good stuff.

Between you and David Gifford these developments are looking really good.

One thought I dared was about being able to export/import to OPML (Outline Processor Markup Language). Its one of the least complex XML interchange formats. Designed by Dave (RadioUserLand) Wiener originally to support his innovative Outliner of the time, its been widely adopted to distribute collections of newsfeeds. But it has a more generic power than that.

David Gifford's TiddlyToolkit on Dynalist should support it as both an import and export format.

My thought is that the simplicity of OPML could serve TW well. Especially for Information Retrieval: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFlFIG22Y9E :-)

Just thoughts
Josiah