Re: [tw] Announcing TiddlyChrome

[Alex Hough]

Arlen,

this looks like a great addition... but I can't install the extension :(

Do you need to use a developer version of chrome?

Alex

On 8 July 2015 at 17:57, Arlen Beiler <arle...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi everyone, 

Was working on a project and once again wished that chrome would save files to disk. Well, to make a long story short, here it is. Inspired by TiddlyFox, but I needed to use a Chrome Packaged App. So this will work with Google Chrome, and it might also work with Chrome OS, I have no clue. Regardless, here it is and feel free to email me if you have questions. It is really an alpha version, so use it at your own risk.

-Arlen

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[PMario]

Hi Arlen,

Some installation instructions would be nice. I don't use Chrome, except for testing purpose. So I have no idea, what to do with those files.

-mario

[Arlen Beiler]

Ok, to install, go to Chrome menu > More tools > Extensions and then drag the crx file over the list of extensions. No, you don't need the dev version. I made this using the stable version of chrome. An up to date version of Chrome is recommended, but Chrome usually keeps itself up to date anyway, so that shouldn't be a problem for most people.

tiddlyChromeSaver.js is the saver to use in your tiddlywiki. Copy the contents into a tiddler and set the field module-type with value "saver". You'll need to do this in a browser where you can save changes, or else download the file and open it again.

-Arlen

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[Arlen Beiler]

I should mention that you can't right-click and hit inspect element. Instead you have to go to chrome://inspect/#apps, and look for TiddlyChrome, then click "Inspect" in the indented line underneath it. Also, once you install it, click apps in your bookmarks bar and then click TiddlyChrome. Then in the window that pops up, click load. The box to the left of the load button is the hash tag string and get's set every time you click either load or reload. I don't have it updating yet when you click permalink.

[Arlen Beiler]

Hi everyone, 

Here is version 0.2. I added the prompt, confirm, and alert dialog boxes, and made so you can drag files onto the app shortcut. To make a shortcut, open the apps tab, right-click on the TiddlyChrome icon, and click Create shortcuts...

Now that I realize it, who knows what all else was added, as it seems like I wasn't updating the crx file correctly earlier, so you may have been working with an earlier version. The basic saving should have worked, though, I think.

Have a good evening.

-Arlen

[Birthe C]

Hi Arlien Beiler,

Thank you very much for this!
I have never tried anything like it before. Installation went well using your last update. I had  a few crashes before realising how to use the app. After that it is working very well for me.


Birthe

[Arlen Beiler]

One thing I should mention is that this can't open any file you don't specify, so it can't save backup files. Maybe TW5 doesn't do that, I don't know. I'm pretty sure I can add a feature to create new files in a specified folder. Anyway, just thought I'd mention that.

-Arlen

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[Arlen Beiler]

I just realized that it isn't truncating the file when it writes to it, so this version fixes that.

-Arlen

[Felix Küppers]

Hi Arlen,

I will try it these days. Many thanks!

-Felix

On 08.07.2015 18:57, Arlen Beiler wrote:

Hi everyone, 

Was working on a project and once again wished that chrome would save files to disk. Well, to make a long story short, here it is. Inspired by TiddlyFox, but I needed to use a Chrome Packaged App. So this will work with Google Chrome, and it might also work with Chrome OS, I have no clue. Regardless, here it is and feel free to email me if you have questions. It is really an alpha version, so use it at your own risk.

-Arlen

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[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Arlen

Congratulations, a saver for Chrome is quite a breakthrough. I hadn't appreciated that this functionality was possible for a purely JS Chrome App. Are you intending to publish the source code?

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[Vaindil]

Sorry, but I'm an idiot. I installed the extension just fine, but I don't know how on earth to actually enable the code in the .html file itself (I've never used TW before today). What do I need to set for each of these?

• tiddler title
• tag (if any)
• "text for this tiddler" (I assume the contents of the .js file)
• Type (content-type)
• Add a new field (if any)

No combinations that I've tried so far have worked based on what you said.

[Arlen Beiler]

• Tiddler title: doesn't matter. Anything you want. Maybe "TiddlyChromeSaver".
  
• "text for this tiddler" is the contents of the file.
  
• Add a new field called "module-type" and set it to "saver". Make sure you actually click Add on the right side of the value.
  
• Content type: javascript (not sure if its required or not)
  

Then if you have it open in chrome, click the red checkbox in the circle on the right side of the page. A file should download.

Next, go to chrome://apps/, and click on the TiddlyChrome app. When it prompts you to select a file, select the file that just downloaded. After that, it should open.

Jeremy, yes I think I will open-source it soon.

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[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hello Arlen,

I suggest you to add the following snippet to the top  of your saver module

/*\

title: $:/plugins/Arlen/Chrome/saver.js

type: application/javascript

module-type: saver

That way your code will be automatically recognized by TW as a saver module and you will save your users the step to change the module-type manually, just drag and drop.

Regards

[Arlen Beiler]

Ok, here you go.

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[Andy Pastuszak]

This is not working for me.  When I click the save button it's prompting me to download a file with a really long GUID that changes each time.

Andy

[Arlen Beiler]

Make sure you have the saver tiddler in the tiddlywiki. It won't actually take effect till you save it and reopen it. Second, make sure you open it from the Chrome Apps list,  not just in a regular tab.

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[RickL]

This sounds like a great new tool but I can't get the installation to work.  Probably something simple but need some guidance.

When I drag the crx file to the chrome//:extensions page I get the following error

"Apps, extensions and user scriptscannot be added from this website."

I am  on a Windows PC with Chrome browser.

Need help to install. 

Thanks

[Arlen Beiler]

Try downloading it to your computer first and then drag it in. Let me know if this works.

-Arlen

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[Arlen Beiler]

Hey guys, just one thing to be aware of is that it won't prompt you if you have unsaved changes. It will just close. I'm trying to figure out if there is a solution to this.

-Arlen

[Rick]

Tired that - does not work.

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 7:21 AM, Arlen Beiler <arle...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Arlen Beiler]

Ok, in case I am not explaining it right, here is a page that explains how to do it. 

http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/47717/chrome-apps-extensions-and-user-scripts-cannot-be-added-from-this-website/

If that doesn't work, I'm not sure what to do, but I will probably upload it to the Chrome Web Store sometime.

-Arlen

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[RickL]

Works like a charm!!

This is a really big improvement from my point of view.  Really improves the usability of TiddlyWiki.  Congratulations on a great job!

[RickL]

External links do not work...that is, I can't click on a link and have it open in Chrome. I can drag the link to a chrome window and open it.  Is this the way it should be working?

[Arlen Beiler]

No, not really. But, yeah, that's the way it works for now.

-Arlen

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[RickL]

Still a huge improvement...thanks for your work!

[Anton Aylward]

Experimenting ...
I find that if you drag-n-drop to the top of the extension list it fails.
If you do it to the bottom of the list it works.

Now, on to the next problem.... save doesn't work... doesn't work ... doesn’t work ...

[Anton Aylward]

Here I go what?
What am I supposed to do with this .js file?

I've got the App loaded as an extension (but there don't seem to be any controls/parameters I can adjust)

[Danielo Rodríguez]

The js file is a saver module for TiddlyWiki. Just drop it into your wiki. Is clearly stated at the first post.

[Arlen Beiler]

Hi Everyone, 

I uploaded the source to GitHub. https://github.com/Arlen22/tiddly-chrome

I decided to release it into the Public Domain. In places where there is no such thing, anyone can do anything with it without attribution or licensing restrictions.

-Arlen

All for Jesus.

On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Danielo Rodríguez <rdan...@gmail.com> wrote:

The js file is a saver module for TiddlyWiki. Just drop it into your wiki. Is clearly stated at the first post.

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[Arlen Beiler]

For anyone who is interested, I posted this version to GitHub.

https://github.com/Arlen22/tiddly-chrome/releases/tag/v0.3-beta

[Anton Aylward]

What do you mean "drop it into your wiki"?

Do you mean that i have to embed the code into each and every html file just on the off chance I'm going to use it with Chrome?

if I recall, the version for Firefox I only had to have in the same folder/directory.
Is this the way we are going now?
Have to bloat the html files with browser specific code for each and every possible browser that could be used in a multi-platform environment.

[Anton Aylward]

Am I to take it that stuff about "field module-type" means this is specific to TW5?
I don't recall anything like that in the Classic TW I'm using.

On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 2:02:18 PM UTC-4, Arlen Beiler wrote:

Ok, to install, go to Chrome menu > More tools > Extensions and then drag the crx file over the list of extensions. No, you don't need the dev version. I made this using the stable version of chrome. An up to date version of Chrome is recommended, but Chrome usually keeps itself up to date anyway, so that shouldn't be a problem for most people.

tiddlyChromeSaver.js is the saver to use in your tiddlywiki. Copy the contents into a tiddler and set the field module-type with value "saver". You'll need to do this in a browser where you can save changes, or else download the file and open it again.

-Arlen

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 1:45 PM, PMario <pmar...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Arlen,

Some installation instructions would be nice. I don't use Chrome, except for testing purpose. So I have no idea, what to do with those files.

-mario

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[Arlen Beiler]

Yes, this is for TW5. I want it to support TWC, though, eventually. And yeah, TW5 has some rather browser specific code that comes in core, since we don't use Java anymore. I know, I had the same gripe, which is why I never switched to TW5 until very recently. For firefox we have tiddlyfox, and now this app for chrome, and node-webkit always worked if you modified bootprefix.js. So it's been a hassle sometimes, but we're getting there.

-Arlen

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[Danielo Rodríguez]

El miércoles, 22 de julio de 2015, 0:47:01 (UTC+2), Anton Aylward escribió:

What do you mean "drop it into your wiki"?

Do you mean that i have to embed the code into each and every html file just on the off chance I'm going to use it with Chrome?

You are obviously not familiar with TW5. You never mentioned that you are using Tiddlywiki classic. Otherwise, the plugin does not mention neither that it is focused on TW5, so I think this is a double misunderstanding.

 

if I recall, the version for Firefox I only had to have in the same folder/directory.

 

You are talking like everyone should know what are you talking about. Please have in mind that most of the people that is active in this forum uses TW5. I have no idea about what do you mean with having "it" in the same folder. I suppose it is some kind of java applet, which sounds outdated and old to me.

Is this the way we are going now?
Have to bloat the html files with browser specific code for each and every possible browser that could be used in a multi-platform environment.

This is actually the way TW works. TW comes with the needed module/code to interact with tiddlyfox, is just that you did not noticed it. I will not say that adding a small file of less than 100 lines is "bloating" your file. You need plugins in tw for many things, specially in TW classic. Try to find, for example, an android applicaton with the same functionality and you will see that they are over several MB in size.

Regards

[Arlen Beiler]

Thanks Danielo,
Yes, this is for TW5, but hopefully soon TWC will come too. I apologize for not making it clearer. I actually much prefer the java saver to anything else, as it worked on Chrome. But TW5 has not had anything to allow saving on Chrome.

I don't have much time, but if anyone else wants to contribute to it you are welcome to. I have released the current code into the public domain, so just remember that if you contribute.

I've posted some stuff on the Readme, so if anyone is wondering how to contribute, feel free to take a look.

-Arlen

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[Arlen Beiler]

Hi everyone, 

Was working on a project and once again wished that chrome would save files to disk. Well, to make a long story short, here it is. Inspired by TiddlyFox, but I needed to use a Chrome Packaged App. So this will work with Google Chrome, and it might also work with Chrome OS, I have no clue. Regardless, here it is and feel free to email me if you have questions. It is really an alpha version, so use it at your own risk.

Update: Here is a link to the GitHub repository. It contains the releases and so forth. https://github.com/Arlen22/tiddly-chrome-app

Also, the TiddlyChromeSaver.js TW5 saver plugin mentioned in the discussion is no longer used.

-Arlen

[Anton Aylward]

"Bloat" doesn't always mean "size", sometimes it means "unwarranted complexity and distraction".
I'm sure you think that embedded adverts in many apps are a distraction; some people pay to get rid of them even though the "plus" version of the app offers no great other enhancement.

The situation I’m facing is having the file in the cloud, In one sense size => bandwidth => startup response.
But the real kicker is the number of different browsers that might be used.  Well, Ok a couple are for testing to make sure things always look acceptable.
But having to replicate the likes of this for half a dozen or more browsers ... things get complicated.
It gets complicated for support as well if some ancillary file needs to be on the portable device, or -shock/horror - at a particular location on the portable device.  Not all <strike>salesmen</strike> end users are technically sophisticated enough to manage that.

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 3:31:53 AM UTC-4, Danielo Rodríguez wrote:

El miércoles, 22 de julio de 2015, 0:47:01 (UTC+2), Anton Aylward escribió:

 

...

[PMario]

On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 2:57:30 PM UTC+2, Anton Aylward wrote:

"Bloat" doesn't always mean "size", sometimes it means "unwarranted complexity and distraction".
I'm sure you think that embedded adverts in many apps are a distraction; some people pay to get rid of them even though the "plus" version of the app offers no great other enhancement.

As I see it, the chromeSaver module is less then 70 lines of code. So I'm pretty sure, when the extension works in a stable way, that this possibility can be included into the core. TiddlyWiki already has some similar decisions to make, if TiddlyFox is installed. Having the core deal with it, also will reduce the complexity for the user. ...

See, this is the first announcement of a great improvement for the TW community. .. So test it and kick the tires but not the author.
 

The situation I’m facing is having the file in the cloud, In one sense size => bandwidth => startup response.
But the real kicker is the number of different browsers that might be used.  Well, Ok a couple are for testing to make sure things always look acceptable.

You are right. That's the stuff developers have to deal with. Browser vendors made great steps into unifying the plattform but there are still quite some quirks, we have to deal with every day.
 

But having to replicate the likes of this for half a dozen or more browsers ... things get complicated.

It gets complicated for support as well if some ancillary file needs to be on the portable device, or -shock/horror - at a particular location on the portable device.  Not all <strike>salesmen</strike> end users are technically sophisticated enough to manage that.

The funny thing is, that portable devices are easier to handle, since they don't have to deal with IE6/7/8/x compatibility problems. Most mobile browsers are based on webkit, which is the engine Chrome, Safari, Opera and many more browsers use.
The problem with mobile devices on the other hand is. Saving TW in a unified way, is an unsolved problem.

have fun!
mario

[Eric Shulman]

On Sunday, August 2, 2015 at 5:57:30 AM UTC-7, Anton Aylward wrote:

"Bloat" doesn't always mean "size", sometimes it means "unwarranted complexity and distraction".

Your use of the word "unwarranted" is... ummm... unwarranted.  This word generally means "not justified".  However, in the case of TiddlyWiki file I/O, the "complexity and distraction" is virtually unavoidable because TiddlyWiki can only invoke functionality that is provided by the browser in which it is running.

Modern browsers go to great lengths to ensure that they do not permit web pages to invoke *direct* file I/O operations, which would be a major security hole. Of course, all browsers do have the ability to do their own file I/O (i.e., download and save a file, read/write local cache, update config files, etc.).  However, the only way a web page can access these internal file functions is by writing a browser-specific privileged add-on along with some custom scripting in the web page to invoke the add-on's functionality.  This is what TiddlyFox and TiddlyChrome do.

TiddlyWiki does the best it can within a restrictive browser environment.  By default, without any add-on/plugin additions, it uses the browser's "download and save" handling to save a file.  This works across nearly all browsers.

In an ideal world, there would be one universal local file I/O solution that works for all browsers... but this is simply not the case.  Note that HTML5 *does* have a "FileWriter" API, but it only writes to a "sandbox" area that the browser manages and the files in the "sandbox" are NOT really local files at all, they are merely data blobs managed by the browser.  Further, the sandboxed files are tied to that specific browser.  In this sense, they are more like giant cookies than actual files.

But the real kicker is the number of different browsers that might be used.  Well, Ok a couple are for testing to make sure things always look acceptable.
But having to replicate the likes of this for half a dozen or more browsers ... things get complicated.

It gets complicated for support as well if some ancillary file needs to be on the portable device, or -shock/horror - at a particular location on the portable device.  Not all <strike>salesmen</strike> end users are technically sophisticated enough to manage that.

The complication is somewhat intentional on the part of the browser makers.  If working around their restrictions on file I/O was easy, it would defeat the purpose of restricting file I/O in the first place.  Requiring installation of browser-specifc add-on code ensures that each user (or IT support person) makes a conscious choice to bypass these security measures.

-e

[Mat]

@Jeremy and @Arlen

What would it take to make this as official as TiddlyFox? It is AFAICT needed just as much. 

I mean making it as available as TiddlyFox (via Google Play?) and to have it as documented on tiddlywiki.com as TiddlyFox.

@Arlen - Please update the initial post in this thread to have attachments of the latest files. Or, if possible, perhaps some link to a place where the latest versions are hosted (here?). I almost installed the files from the initial post which would have given a poorer experience of your creation, of course.

EDIT: I now found a more recent thread announcing an update.

Thank you!

<:-)

[Arlen Beiler]

The latest version doesn't use the TiddlyChromeSaver.js tiddler anymore, but instead loads the saver directly into the $tw variable. The next version will probably be decoupled and use the tiddlyfox plugin, assuming I can find a way to make TiddlyFox see a file URL in the location. Currently it is a blob URL. I think there is a way, it just messes with CORS.

A couple things to note is that it is probably not be able to read or write other files, even backups, although downloads will still show up in a regular chrome window when initiated from the app. This is on Chrome, regardless of what saver I use.

One other thing the next version should have is double-checking the path on save and if it isn't the same as the one that is open then it would return false so $tw knows to try the next saver.

That's all my comments, so we'll see once whether I am able to get to it, but as I said, for a standard TiddlyWiki that has $tw on the window object, it now works fine. If there is some strange corner case, then you probably know how to adapt my code for your own use anyway.  :)

Classic is disabled for now though, as I still need to add code to make sure saveFile is being called with some other file in mind (which was, I assume, possible with the Java saver). Even if it wasn't it's a good thing to check.

And yes, look in the releases in GitHub for the latest version.

https://github.com/Arlen22/tiddly-chrome-app

-Arlen

On Apr 22, 2016 6:53 AM, "Mat" <matia...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Jeremy and @Arlen

What would it take to make this as official as TiddlyFox? It is AFAICT needed just as much. 

I'm referring to making it as available (via Google Play?) and to have it as documented on tiddlywiki.com as TiddlyFox.

@Jeremy - unless already suggested in this long thread - could the tiddlyChromeSaver.js be included in the standard TW distro? Few features are as fundamental as being able to update, i.e overwrite, ones local notes. I figure it should sit along with $:/core/modules/savers/tiddlyfox.js -?

@Arlen - Please update the initial post in this thread to have attachments of the latest files. Or, if possible, perhaps some link to a place where the latest versions are hosted (here?). I almost installed the files from the initial post which would have given a poorer experience of your creation, of course.

Thank you!

<:-)

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[Mat]

Arlen Beiler wrote:

[...] assuming I can find a way to make TiddlyFox see a file URL in the location.

Might BuggyJ's location macro be of use? (He created it when I designed the PublicSidebar theme)
 

If there is some strange corner case, then you probably know how to adapt my code for your own use anyway.  :)

(Heh - I wouldn't bet on it. I'm barely just starting to learn to code. All my stuff yet is built using TW itself and CSS.)


Thanks for your reply Arlen!

<:-)

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Arlen

> What would it take to make this as official as TiddlyFox? It is AFAICT needed just as much. 

I’ve added a link for 5.1.12:

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/commit/147ce5803cfc81bd3a536f461e671aae190139fd

I think it would be very useful if you could add some installation instructions to the repo; I linked to the /releases page to make it easier for visitors to find the CRX, but it would probably be better to link to the readme, and have the readme include installation instructions and link to the releases,

Many thanks,

Jeremy.

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[Arlen Beiler]

Hi Jeremy, 

I've updated the readme and the releases page. Let me know if that works. Feel free to link to either one.

Thanks,

-Arlen

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[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Arlen

I've updated the readme and the releases page. Let me know if that works. Feel free to link to either one.

Looks good, thanks, I’ve updated the link to point to the readme.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[Vladmaster99]

how is twclassic chrome saver going how long before your saver works with tw? 

I am wresling with self-signing tiddlysaver.jar which works on offline pc with old chrome version with NPAPI suport.

So I can not currently use tidllywiki classic on chome in a internet connected enviroment

cheers vlad

[Arlen Beiler]

Hello Vlad,

With Chrome Apps currently heading out the door within the next year, I will have to see once what is worth doing.

Getting the classic saver working would be worth doing, though, if I can find the time. But I don't know when that will happen.

However, there is a plugin for Firefox called TiddlyFox which allows TiddlyWiki classic to work similar to how it was intended. Try using Firefox with that plugin installed.

For me to support TWC, I am going to need to figure out how it works. A couple sanity checks may be required to make sure the file being written is the file that is intended. I'm not sure if TWC can use that mechanism for writing other files as well, which is no longer supported by browsers.

Hope that helps,
-Arlen

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