Ride the Wave

[David Gifford]

FYI

Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an influencer with 10,000+ subscribers, and is already promoting TiddlyWiki on her website and on Twitter. (Thank you!!!) See her article here: https://nesslabs.com/roam-research-alternatives

I have also seen other, seemingly unrelated interest in TiddlyWiki because of Roam Research, and perhaps my stuff and TiddlyRoam have had something to do with that.

So be prepared for a wave of new people coming here with questions! And possibly some really great hacks and plugins and ideas.

This could be a big moment in TiddlyWiki's history. But it will probably require patience, time and effort as the questions multiply for a while. This is a curve we don't want to see flatten quickly.

Blessings.

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

Very excited to have discovered TiddlyWiki - and TiddlyBlink, TiddlyRoam, TiddlyMap and all the other great resources from the community. 100% agreed you should be prepared for many new users looking for open source alternatives to Roam, which is taking off right now and evangelising the concept of non-linear note-taking. This is exciting :)

[Mohammad]

Good news!

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 11:57:07 PM UTC+4:30, David Gifford wrote:

FYI

Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an influencer with 10,000+ subscribers, and is already promoting TiddlyWiki on her website and on Twitter. (Thank you!!!) See her article here: https://nesslabs.com/roam-research-alternatives

Really great!

I have also seen other, seemingly unrelated interest in TiddlyWiki because of Roam Research, and perhaps my stuff and TiddlyRoam have had something to do with that.

So be prepared for a wave of new people coming here with questions! And possibly some really great hacks and plugins and ideas.

This is amazing!

 

This could be a big moment in TiddlyWiki's history. But it will probably require patience, time and effort as the questions multiply for a while. This is a curve we don't want to see flatten quickly.

Dave, I think the tiddlywiki.com should answer many questions! But the landing page is crowded with different materials and non technical newcomers confuse! The description in the first paragraph needs to be revised. A linear quick tutorial with simple navigation at the bottom (previous | next ) is helpful!

I frequently heard people learn Tiddlywiki through works by others (example wikis and docs) and not from tiddlywiki.com

 

Blessings.

[David Gifford]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:14 PM Mohammad <mohammad...@gmail.com> wrote:

Good news!

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 11:57:07 PM UTC+4:30, David Gifford wrote:

FYI

Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an influencer with 10,000+ subscribers, and is already promoting TiddlyWiki on her website and on Twitter. (Thank you!!!) See her article here: https://nesslabs.com/roam-research-alternatives

Really great!

I have also seen other, seemingly unrelated interest in TiddlyWiki because of Roam Research, and perhaps my stuff and TiddlyRoam have had something to do with that.

So be prepared for a wave of new people coming here with questions! And possibly some really great hacks and plugins and ideas.

This is amazing!

 

This could be a big moment in TiddlyWiki's history. But it will probably require patience, time and effort as the questions multiply for a while. This is a curve we don't want to see flatten quickly.

Dave, I think the tiddlywiki.com should answer many question! But the landing page is crowded with different materials and non technical newcomers confuse! The description in the first paragraph needs to be revised. A linear quick tutorial with simple navigation at the bottom (previous | next ) is helpful!

Yes, I agree the landing page could use some work. But the issue of how to save changes cannot be avoided. Hard to know what to do about that.

I frequently heard people learn Tiddlywiki through works by other (example wikis and docs) and not from tiddlywiki.com

I have too. Just today, in fact.

 

Blessings.

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[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

I'm working on a step-by-step getting started tutorial — you can see me work on it live here. :)

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 10:36:01 PM UTC+1, David Gifford wrote:

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 4:14 PM Mohammad <mohamma...@gmail.com> wrote:

Good news!

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 11:57:07 PM UTC+4:30, David Gifford wrote:

FYI

Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an influencer with 10,000+ subscribers, and is already promoting TiddlyWiki on her website and on Twitter. (Thank you!!!) See her article here: https://nesslabs.com/roam-research-alternatives

Really great!

I have also seen other, seemingly unrelated interest in TiddlyWiki because of Roam Research, and perhaps my stuff and TiddlyRoam have had something to do with that.

So be prepared for a wave of new people coming here with questions! And possibly some really great hacks and plugins and ideas.

This is amazing!

 

This could be a big moment in TiddlyWiki's history. But it will probably require patience, time and effort as the questions multiply for a while. This is a curve we don't want to see flatten quickly.

Dave, I think the tiddlywiki.com should answer many question! But the landing page is crowded with different materials and non technical newcomers confuse! The description in the first paragraph needs to be revised. A linear quick tutorial with simple navigation at the bottom (previous | next ) is helpful!

Yes, I agree the landing page could use some work. But the issue of how to save changes cannot be avoided. Hard to know what to do about that.

I frequently heard people learn Tiddlywiki through works by other (example wikis and docs) and not from tiddlywiki.com

I have too. Just today, in fact.

 

Blessings.

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[Mohammad]

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 2:28:41 AM UTC+4:30, Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:

I'm working on a step-by-step getting started tutorial — you can see me work on it live here.

Wow!

Good luck with that! I am sure people here will give hint, help and would like to read that tutorial!

Cheers

Mohammad 

[David Gifford]

Hi Anne-Laure

Looking at your tutorial - you suggest the user download the file and play with it. Then later you give the "proper" instructions.

But there is no way to save changes at that point if they have just downloaded it. Wouldn't it be better to have them play with it in the online empty version just to get familiar with it? Then go through the download and 'how to save changes' processes?

Dave

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[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

Hey Dave!

To me the goal of the "proper install" is to not have to deal with saving and re-saving the file all the time, and I want to make sure the user understands that, and why it's worth going through the hassle of installing Node. I do want the tutorial to be easy, but I want people to understand why they're doing what they're doing. What do you think?

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[David Gifford]

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 5:21 PM Anne-Laure Le Cunff <alec...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Dave!

To me the goal of the "proper install" is to not have to deal with saving and re-saving the file all the time, and I want to make sure the user understands that, and why it's worth going through the hassle of installing Node. I do want the tutorial to be easy, but I want people to understand why they're doing what they're doing. What do you think?

That approach sounds good. You may convert me to node.js yet.

My issue was actually not with the proper install part, but with the first part. What happens when they download an empty file and try to save changes? Won't it give them an error message, or erase their content (I don't honestly remember what it does)? I just wanted to avoid that confusion for your readers.

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[Mark S.]

Why node and not TiddlyDesktop?

With classic node, you can only run one TW file at a time. Or you have to open a second command box and launch another. It requires steps to install node, and then tiddlywiki, and then to initialize your files.

With TiddlyDesktop, everything works pretty much like a typical Desktop app that you download and install.

[Birthe C]

I wonder about the dragging and dropping of plugins. https://tiddlywiki.com/static/Installing%2520custom%2520plugins%2520on%2520Node.js.html

Birthe

[Ed Heil]

Yes, after going through a lot of back and forth about which save method I should use when I first started messing with tw's, I've landed on TiddlyDesktop (and Quine2 for iOS) -- It's zero-friction; the only issues seem to be dragging and dropping things from other tiddlywikis.

[Ed Heil]

(although I see that the tutorial shows how to export to a static site, something which you want to use Node for....)

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

The tutorial changed quite a bit! Removed the export a static website bit which will be for a more advanced tutorial. That removed the need for Node.js so it's now much, much simpler. Still working on it but I think it's more beginner friendly.

[Peter Buyze]

There will undoubtedly be new users, but I am not sure there will be many. TW is a fantastic app (not sure that's the right word for it), probably unbeatable if one were to make a thorough, deep comparison with other note-taking apps.

Nevertheless, TW as is will more likely appeal to those who are well versed in HTML coding, which is not an asset of the ordinary note-taking (wo)men.

I am a complete newbie with no HTML coding skills and am unlikely to acquire them any time soon, even though that's what is required to able to make full use of TW's features and customisability. Still, I feel so attracted to it that I will very likely stick with it, my skills limitations notwithstanding.

In my modest opinion, what would attract many users would be a more user-friendly, intuitive version of TW with some easy to implement customisation that allows simpletons like me to familiarise themselves with it relatively easily. In other words, a "lite" version. Then, if need be and with time, a user could switch over to the full/pro version.

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13 Apr 2020, 22:39 by alec...@gmail.com:

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[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

This is live! Comments and feedback welcome. The next one will be about installing the Node.js version and using it as a static site generator.

@Peter: I'm personally getting lots of value without touching any HTML, I think this is a great note-taking tool once you've installed a few add-ons such as TiddlyBlink.

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[Peter Buyze]

Anne, I only ever installed TB because of the bi-directional link feature.

I have been looking for a wiki-like tool for a number of years now, have tried a fair number, looked at TW, ran away screaming 2-3 years ago, decided to come back 2 weeks ago, and fell in love.

I have needed to get some coding  for what I wanted/needed, and help was provided on this forum, but there is a limit to what people can do. I'll work on that skill but it will be slow.

You are a lot more clued up than I am, and your issue with "Link unlinked references" seems to involve some HTML work.

14 Apr 2020, 11:25 by alec...@gmail.com:

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[Mat]

If I were a noob, I'd want to hear about Tiddlyspot which allows free hosting of TW's. It has been the go-to solution for many people over the years, including myself, and native TW has a built-in saver for it (Controlpanel > Saving > Tiddlyspot). The point is to get an online wiki, so it is possible to make it public even if it also has a site password feature. 

Tiddlyspot was originally made for what we now refer to as TWC (TW Classic) so the premade options to choose from when setting up a tiddlyspot only has "TWC variants" - so I made a kind of "iframe-skin" to set up a TW5 on Tiddlyspot: http://tiddlywiki5.tiddlyspot.com 

...even my aunt could set up a public TW via this page, which is not the case for e.g github or "hosting my own server" etc.

I have no affiliation with the cousins Simon and Daniel Baird who are the brains behind Tiddlyspot and who (incredibly) generously have provided us with this for well over a decade.

<:-)

[Mike Manchester]

I'm with Ed, after trying many ways I've ended up with Quine(2) and TiddlyDesktop. When I was using node.js I loved some of the features but to me they were to costly for me. I wanted to be able to store my wiki's in the cloud so I could access them from anywhere and have them updated when I made a change. With node.js I haven't found an inexpensive way to do that with out having a dedicated website where the wiki's live and as a user I'm not knowledgeable enough to setup a website running node.js for just my wiki's.

With Quine and Tiddlydesktop I can use NextCloud or google docs to save my wiki's on and access them from my desktop, iphone, or ipad. I'm sad that Quine2 isn't available on Android so I'm not able to use this solution on my Kindles.  But I usually have my phone with me.

On Monday, April 13, 2020 at 11:14:45 PM UTC-4, Ed Heil wrote:

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

Thank you! I actually started typing a paragraph about TiddlySpot and removed it. The reason why I didn't include is that there's no SSL/HTTPs, and many people are looking at Roam alternatives mainly for privacy reasons. Is it something that will get addressed at some point, maybe with LetsEncrypt?

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[Mat]

Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:

Thank you! I actually started typing a paragraph about TiddlySpot and removed it. The reason why I didn't include is that there's no SSL/HTTPs, and many people are looking at Roam alternatives mainly for privacy reasons. Is it something that will get addressed at some point, maybe with LetsEncrypt?

Unfortunately there has not been any development on the Tiddlyspot system itself for many years and I'd say it seems unlikely that anything would change in thir respect. It is not a "safe" system, which they are open about. But since TW is typically for individual use anyway AND considering that any professional endeavor wouldn't be happy with having tiddlyspot.com in their url, it does have its audience.

<:-)

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

People are happy to share notes from Dropbox, Evernote, Roam and Notion without having their own domain, so I don't think tiddlyspot.com is an issue in itself (even if I heard that in American English the tiddly brand may not be the best).

I'm just not comfortable recommending something that's so unsafe to people when personal or professional notes can be so sensitive. For instance I think many people use Roam/TW to keep a diary.

But I think people who go through the tutorial and like TW enough will easily find TiddlySpot and other saving/hosting methods if they're curious :)

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[Ed Heil]

Same re: Tiddlyspot, the SSL issue is kinda a big deal.

With regards to intros to tiddlywiki, I wanted to throw the following out there to the community....

In terms of intros/guides to Tiddlywiki, one of the things that's been a thorn in my side while learning is all the various kinds of brackets and where you use them!  It seems like there are a dozen different contexts in which you use one, two, or three square brackets, angle brackets, or curly brackets -- not to mention widget tags -- and it's not always clear to a newbie which can go inside which.  (It's not always 100% clear to me and I feel like I've risen above "newbie" at this point).

The answers are all within the tiddlywiki web site but it's sometimes hard to find the answers if you don't know how to phrase the question.

I think a hugely valuable resource to "people trying to rise above the level of newbie" would be a cheat sheet to what kind of markup is appropriate in what kind of context.  This would be especially valuable to people like me who have experience in programming and markup in some other context but find out that the way things work in tiddlywiki is unique and not always what they expected from other contexts.

So I could scan the list and notice that in a filter I use <> {} to get to variables and textrefs, in a macro definition I use $this$ and $(that)$ to get to parameter and variables, in the attributes of a widget tag I use <<this>> and {{{that}}} to get the results of a macro and the results of a filter expression... that kind of thing, maybe with links to the tiddlywiki website which explains each piece.

Again, that wouldn't be helpful for complete newbies but it'd be a valuable resource for somebody who's just started to learn the complicated stuff and is running into problems using the wrong kind of markup in the wrong places.

Maybe someday I'll write for myself the resource that I wish were available to me while learning....

On Tuesday, April 14, 2020 at 8:06:21 AM UTC-4, Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:

Thank you! I actually started typing a paragraph about TiddlySpot and removed it. The reason why I didn't include is that there's no SSL/HTTPs, and many people are looking at Roam alternatives mainly for privacy reasons. Is it something that will get addressed at some point, maybe with LetsEncrypt?

On Tue, 14 Apr 2020, 10:14 Mat, <matia...@gmail.com> wrote:

If I were a noob, I'd want to hear about Tiddlyspot which allows free hosting of TW's. It has been the go-to solution for many people over the years, including myself, and native TW has a built-in saver for it (Controlpanel > Saving > Tiddlyspot). The point is to get an online wiki, so it is possible to make it public even if it also has a site password feature. 

Tiddlyspot was originally made for what we now refer to as TWC (TW Classic) so the premade options to choose from when setting up a tiddlyspot only has "TWC variants" - so I made a kind of "iframe-skin" to set up a TW5 on Tiddlyspot: http://tiddlywiki5.tiddlyspot.com 

...even my aunt could set up a public TW via this page, which is not the case for e.g github or "hosting my own server" etc.

I have no affiliation with the cousins Simon and Daniel Baird who are the brains behind Tiddlyspot and who (incredibly) generously have provided us with this for well over a decade.

<:-)

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[David Gifford]

Ed, I remember recently seeing just such a cheatsheet posted somewhere from a link in this forum. So I know it exists...

This is an older one, probably only for non-noobies: http://tobibeer.github.io/tb5/#Variables%20vs.%20Parameters

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[Ed Heil]

That's exactly what I was thinking of!  Thank you, I wish I'd found that earlier!

[Peter Buyze]

Before choosing for TB I considered Roam, but the lack of security put me off immediately. It is not stated explicitly on the site, so I learned about it by asking users.

TB and TMap combined are a good alternative for me.

14 Apr 2020, 15:48 by alec...@gmail.com:

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