TiddlyWiki is live on Product Hunt

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

Hello everyone!

We decided to take the opportunity of the latest major release to introduce TW to a new audience. TW is live on Product Hunt!

Please check it out and leave a comment with your thoughts and ways you have been using it.

Thank you!

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

And here is the tweet to re-share if you're on Twitter. Beyond upvotes, comments are very helpful on Product Hunt to help people understand the value of a product, so feel free to give specific use cases. Let's see how this goes!

[Jeremy Ruston]

Thanks Anne-Laure! It’s a wonderful write-up, and it’ll be interesting to watch the reaction.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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[TiddlyTweeter]

Cara Anne,

I replied to it.

Its really good to do that. To respond to the Product Hunt. To present TW.

Increasing use will make TW better. And Product Hunt is a real way to enable that.

I hope many others here will comment too!

Best wishes

TT

[Mohammad]

Thanks Ann,

 

Good luck Jeremy!

--Mohammad

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 11:47:51 AM UTC+4:30, Jeremy Ruston wrote:

Thanks Anne-Laure! It’s a wonderful write-up, and it’ll be interesting to watch the reaction.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

On 17 Apr 2020, at 08:15, Anne-Laure Le Cunff <alec...@gmail.com> wrote:

And here is the tweet to re-share if you're on Twitter. Beyond upvotes, comments are very helpful on Product Hunt to help people understand the value of a product, so feel free to give specific use cases. Let's see how this goes!

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 8:07:09 AM UTC+1, Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:

Hello everyone!

We decided to take the opportunity of the latest major release to introduce TW to a new audience. TW is live on Product Hunt!

Please check it out and leave a comment with your thoughts and ways you have been using it.

Thank you!

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[Jeremy Ruston]

I'm happy to say that we're currently no.1 (see below). Hopefully we'll stay there, or at least in the top 5: the top 5 links are sent out to 100,000 users in a daily email. Every vote counts!

Thanks again to Anne-Laure!

Best wishes

Jeremy

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

Thanks so much, TT! And yes, writing thoughtful comments is one of the most useful thing you can do to support this launch.

TiddlyWiki is currently #1. If it stays in the top 5 at the end of the day, it will be sent via email to more than 100,000 people, a large majority of them technical founders and software engineers! Hard to find a more effective marketing channel.

Thank you!

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[Mohammad]

Anne-Laure,

 For many customed to Markdown it is good to say TW supports Markdow see

https://tiddlywiki.com/plugins/tiddlywiki/markdown/

Also for many students, researchers, ... using Latex it is very important to know TW supports writing math formula see

https://tiddlywiki.com/plugins/tiddlywiki/katex/

TW is very flexible! You can shape it in the way you like! It is not a note-taking only  tool!

-- Mohammad

[Julio Peña]

Hello there,

Threw in my little grain of sand at Product Hunt for the cause. :)

Blessings all,

Julio

[Diego Mesa]

All,

This is wonderful! Thank you Anne-Laure!

I want to make sure I'm doing everything I can to help. I've:

• Created a ProductHunt account
• Upvoted TW
• Provided a short comment (should it be made longer to be more effective?)

Is there anything else I/we can do to support this?

[Mohammad]

That is true Diego!

[Mat]

Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:

[...] If it stays in the top 5 at the end of the day, it will be sent via email to more than 100,000 people

I really hope we can make this so I want to understand when is "the end of the day"? GMT or some other zone?

<:-)

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

It's 11.59pm San Francisco time!

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[Mat]

Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:

It's 11.59pm San Francisco time!

Aha, so another 14.5 hours - then I guess there's risk for competition even if we're momentarily at #1.

<:-)

[Jeremy Ruston]

There is a strong runner up at our heels already (see below), let's hope more US TiddlyWiki fans help out as the day goes on.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Jeremy Ruston

jer...@jermolene.com

https://jermolene.com

On 17 Apr 2020, at 17:30, Mat <matia...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mark S.]

Can someone tell me what's in Jeremy's post? I just get a broken image icon. Google has been doing weird things

with images the last couple of days.

Thanks!

[Diego Mesa]

Hello,

I would just like to repeat my question to make sure I didnt miss anything. With regards to product hunt, I've:

• Created a ProductHunt account
• Upvoted TW
• Provided a short comment (should it be made longer to be more effective?)

Is there anything else I/we can do to support this on Product Hunt?

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 11:18:29 AM UTC-5, Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:

It's 11.59pm San Francisco time!

On Fri, 17 Apr 2020, 16:13 Mat, <matia...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:

[...] If it stays in the top 5 at the end of the day, it will be sent via email to more than 100,000 people

I really hope we can make this so I want to understand when is "the end of the day"? GMT or some other zone?

<:-)

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[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

Hi Diego,

You have done everything you could do! The number of comments is important, but the length of the comments themselves doesn't have any impact on the ranking as far as I know.

If you're on Twitter you can also re-share this Tweet and/or this Tweet or post your own Tweet with a link to the Product Hunt post. Just note that directly asking for upvotes is against the rules, but you can ask for feedback. (or better yet, not ask for anything)

We are still at #1 and things are looking good so far :)

Many thanks to everyone for the support!

[Mohammad]

Mark,

 It is an image from product hunter page! Have you right clicked on broken image and then select reload?

 The image shows, TW is #1 and 244 upvotes!

[Mark S.]

This is what I see, even after reload (hopefully you see my image):

Guugle has been doing weird things recently, sometimes not showing images at all. Maybe their servers are overloaded.

[Mohammad]

Mark,

 Yes, your image shows a broken one! 

By the way Jeremy just shared a screenshot from Product Hunter page!

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

In case the rankings change, I wanted to share a screenshot of this great milestone - 300 upvotes and #1 position :)

12 or so more hours to go and I don't want to jinx it but things are looking good, seems like the Product Hunt community loves TiddlyWiki!

[Thomas Elmiger]

Wow!

Thanks a lot Anne-Laure for the effort, I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Cheers and all the best

Thomas

[Jeremy Ruston]

Sad to say, we've slipped to 2nd place, 20 votes behind 1st place.  We've about 1h15m until the rankings are frozen, so there's a chance that things might change. Either way, it's been a great run, and I'm very grateful to everyone for your support.

Best wishes

Jeremy

--

Jeremy Ruston

jer...@jermolene.com

https://jermolene.com

On 17 Apr 2020, at 21:48, Thomas Elmiger <thomas....@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mohammad]

Congratulation Jeremy!

For me it is quite strange, I expect much more votes for lovely Tiddlywiki! It deserves first place!

Please share lesson learned from this day!

--Mohammad

On Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 10:19:10 AM UTC+4:30, Jeremy Ruston wrote:

Sad to say, we've slipped to 2nd place, 20 votes behind 1st place.  We've about 1h15m until the rankings are frozen, so there's a chance that things might change. Either way, it's been a great run, and I'm very grateful to everyone for your support.

Best wishes

Jeremy

--

Jeremy Ruston

jer...@jermolene.com

https://jermolene.com

On 17 Apr 2020, at 21:48, Thomas Elmiger <thomas...@gmail.com> wrote:



Wow!

Thanks a lot Anne-Laure for the effort, I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Cheers and all the best

Thomas

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[Mat]

Jeremy Ruston wrote:

Sad to say, we've slipped to 2nd place, 20 votes behind 1st place.

But still, wasn't it the top five that were sent out to the list?

<:-) 

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

Congrats! Actually, something I didn't realise is the fact that they don't send the newsletter on Saturday and Sunday. So the newsletter will go out on Monday with the top 5 products across Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Fingers crossed!

Past Product Hunt newsletters FYI: https://www.producthunt.com/newsletter

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[Thomas Elmiger]

But still, I am with Mohammad here. My lesson would be, that this group and Twitter are not enough to get as much response as possible within a day or two.

Possible solutions that I can think of:

• Sticky post at the top of this group: Say Hi & Subscribe to TW-Alerts
  Every single visitor of the group would be invited a) to say Hi to the group and b) by doing so consent to be alerted if an important message about TW comes out (new release, critical update, one or two votings a year)
• A separate mailing list or newsletter for b)

Nonetheless: Congrats for the 2nd place just a few votes behind #1!

Cheers,

Thomas

[Mat]

Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:

Congrats! Actually, something I didn't realise is the fact that they don't send the newsletter on Saturday and Sunday. So the newsletter will go out on Monday with the top 5 products across Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Fingers crossed!

Ah... so to maximize the chances, one had better NOT vote for ANYTHING else this weekend. Just sayin'.

<:-)

[Mat]

Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:

Congrats! Actually, something I didn't realise is the fact that they don't send the newsletter on Saturday and Sunday. So the newsletter will go out on Monday with the top 5 products across Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Fingers crossed!

BTW, other than NOT voting on anything else over the weekend, is there anything further we can do for this? For example, people who have not posted comments, can they post a comment and that would weigh in on our ranking somehow? ...not to mention, is it possible for anyone to still vote?

<:-)

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

People can still vote but it won't impact the launch day ranking which is now fixed at #2. 

Still — In the future, when people look up note-taking/productivity/thinking tools on Product Hunt, the results will be displayed based on the total number of votes, including the ones that were registered after launch day. So it is still worth doing it even now.

Product Hunt posted a tweet about TW btw if people want to re-tweet: https://twitter.com/ProductHunt/status/1251405351238459395?s=19

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[Mat]

Thomas Elmiger wrote:

that this group and Twitter are not enough to get as much response as possible within a day or two. 

A mistake we made yesterday: We should of course have made a sticky post with headline "Urgent! Please vote for TW now" or some such. 

• Sticky post at the top of this group: Say Hi & Subscribe to TW-Alerts
  

• Every single visitor of the group would be invited a) to say Hi to the group and b) by doing so consent to be alerted if an important message about TW comesout (new release, critical update, one or two votings a year)

Hm, from a practical perspective consenting would of course have to include supplying ones email or such.

 

Other bits  - @Jermolene and @Anne-Laure, would love to hear your thoughts:

• On tiddlywiki.com, in some corner or in the menubar, there could be a small ❤ ( &#10084; &#x2764; / heart ) or 👍 ( &#128077; &#x1F44D;  / like ) that links to https://tiddlywiki.com/#HelpingTiddlyWiki  ...which BTW currently is way to hidden.
• I believe Anne-Laure and a few others say they found TW via some youtube videos. Maybe the docs, in relation to the HelpingTiddlyWiki tiddler, could give some pointers how one can create videos.
  
• The HelpingTiddlyWiki tid could also contain a direct link to search results on various services where TW references exist; Example (date sorted on youtube). 
  
• I can think of three primary "contact surfaces" where we should apply these types of tactics: tiddlywiki.com, this forum, github.
• GettingStarted (i.e the default tiddler in a downloaded empty wiki) currently has an external link to the docs and I think it should also have links to the forum and some thumbs up type link to e.g HelpingTiddlyWiki.   

bigger community ⮀ better TW

<:-)

[Mark S.]

@Jeremy. I'm curious if you got the bump you were hoping for. I suspect not. The largest English-speaking

country on the planet is under represented here. And there is a reason.

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 9:32:57 AM UTC-7, Jeremy Ruston wrote:

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mark

I don’t know. A lot of the votes came after 4pm UK time, which is roughly when people in the US are up and about. But to your underlying point, there was a comment about the name (it’s buried under “show more”):

"cool product but I just can't deal with the name"

Which is helpful, as it highlights something I’ve also tried to put across: that those that don’t like the name sometimes seem to find it intensely distasteful, reacting as if it were an unutterable obscenity. I was hoping that the recent thread on the name would throw some light on this phenomenon, but I didn’t read anyone putting it in those terms.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[Jeremy Ruston]

Just to add that I’ve just had an email from Product Hunt saying that TiddlyWiki was indeed listed in the newsletter that went out this morning to "100,000's of friendly folks in tech every day". You can view it here:

https://www.producthunt.com/newsletter/4548

Best wishes

Jeremy

[A Gloom]

Congratulations!

[Birthe C]

Lovely! May a lot of the newsletter readers come this way.

Thank you to Anne-laure and gratulations to Jeremy

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

Wooohoo, we made it! :) Not easy by launching on a Friday, good to know for next time.

(we can launch on PH every 6 months providing there are some major new features)

[Jeremy Ruston]

Wooohoo, we made it! :)

Indeed, it's great that we've met the main goal.

There's no traffic analytics on tiddlywiki.com now (yay privacy!) so we'll only see indirect results, but there are a few things that should be obvious if there's a big surge.

Not easy by launching on a Friday, good to know for next time.

(we can launch on PH every 6 months providing there are some major new features)

That's great to hear. I'll set a reminder!

Best wishes

Jeremy.

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 5:27:08 PM UTC+1, Birthe C wrote:

Lovely! May a lot of the newsletter readers come this way.

Thank you to Anne-laure and gratulations to Jeremy

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[Mat]

Anne-Laure Le Cunff wrote:

Wooohoo, we made it! :)

As someone whose life is very much ingrained with TW, I want to thank you sincerely! Hooray to you for this great initiative! 

<:-)

[Mohammad]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 7:09:16 PM UTC+4:30, Jeremy Ruston wrote:

Hi Mark

@Jeremy. I'm curious if you got the bump you were hoping for. I suspect not. The largest English-speaking

country on the planet is under represented here. And there is a reason.

On Friday, April 17, 2020 at 9:32:57 AM UTC-7, Jeremy Ruston wrote:

There is a strong runner up at our heels already (see below), let's hope more US TiddlyWiki fans help out as the day goes on.

I don’t know. A lot of the votes came after 4pm UK time, which is roughly when people in the US are up and about. But to your underlying point, there was a comment about the name (it’s buried under “show more”):

"cool product but I just can't deal with the name"

We did a lot of discussion, what are the barriers you cannot think about a new name? What are the issues cannot addressed if you use a new name?

I recommend to take the risk and go for new name

 

Which is helpful, as it highlights something I’ve also tried to put across: that those that don’t like the name sometimes seem to find it intensely distasteful, reacting as if it were an unutterable obscenity. I was hoping that the recent thread on the name would throw some light on this phenomenon, but I didn’t read anyone putting it in those terms.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[Sylvain Naudin]

Le lundi 20 avril 2020 18:44:14 UTC+2, Jeremy Ruston a écrit :

Wooohoo, we made it! :)

Indeed, it's great that we've met the main goal.

By the way, who created the five images visible at PH? Anne-Laure or Jeremy? To illustrate a new homepage, I think they're really cool.

Sylvain

[Eric Shulman]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 10:43:29 PM UTC-7, Mohammad wrote:

"cool product but I just can't deal with the name"

We did a lot of discussion, what are the barriers you cannot think about a new name? What are the issues cannot addressed if you use a new name?

I recommend to take the risk and go for new name

Out of all the comments posted on Product Hunt, *one* person said something about the name, and didn't explain any further than "just can't deal"...

In our previous discussions, we hashed out lots of different thoughts about the name, and didn't reach anywhere near a consensus

Some of the points raised during that discussion were:

A) Is the name "TiddlyWiki" really an *instant* product killer?

B) Could this be mitigated by a better initial presentation and/or explanation of the name?

C) What alternative names are suitable AND available?

D) What other issues (e.g., learning curve, saving, etc.) are hindering greater adoption of TiddlyWiki?

E) Would a "showcase" of ready-to-use editions focused on specific use-cases solve this problem?

and, ultimately, the big question is: "What is the presumed purpose and benefit of expanding the user base?"

Sure, *WE* love TiddlyWiki and wish that others would discover and share our JOY in using it, and it definitely satisfies certain technological needs (customization, portability, cross-platform, etc.), but is it really something the general public actually *wants*, or is it more of a "solution in search of a problem"?

Consider: TiddlyWiki has been around for more than 15 years and, while it hasn't really "exploded" onto the scene, it also hasn't died off like so many other pieces of software over the years.  Perhaps filling a specific niche in the marketplace of ideas is a worthy and sufficient goal, and being "all things to all people" isn't actually required for it to be considered a rousing success.

Having said that....

I've personally been working with TiddlyWiki (and Jeremy) since early in 2005 (when TiddlyWiki was just 6 months old!), and my entire professional focus has been dedicated to making TiddlyWiki do things that no one ever expected it could do.

Regardless of it's future, TiddlyWiki *is* already a success and will continue to thrive "for the next 25 years (and beyond!), but there is always room for improvement -- both in terms of capabilities AND presentation -- and I'd still like to "share the joy" with more people, so let's just keep working toward that goal and see how far we can take it.

-e

Eric Shulman

TiddlyTools.com: "Small Tools for Big Ideas!" (tm)

InsideTiddlyWiki - http://TiddlyTools.com/InsideTW

[Birthe C]

One of the problems for new users was already said many years ago by Tiddlertoddler .

Citation: "It's a bit like being on the wrong bus at 4pm on the way out of Katowice, Poland - you know you're going somewhere, you're just not sure where or whether there'll be food and a bed there."

It is necessary to try it out and do it for quite some time to really fall in love with it (then you will of course be dependent)

Birthe

[Anne-Laure Le Cunff]

@Eric! Absolutely - any software that manages to maintain a thriving community for 15 years is a massive success!

I do think though TW could become much more mainstream. Roam themselves openly admitted to have been heavily inspired by TW, and the main things they tweaked at this stage (they have big plans, but as of today) is the marketing and onboarding. The result? Many people who never took any digital notes before starting doing so.

While of course these kind of networked thinking tools are not for everyone, I think many more people would benefit from discovering TW. I'm a big fan personally and had never heard about it until a week ago :)

[Mark S.]

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 11:58:10 PM UTC-7, Eric Shulman wrote:

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 10:43:29 PM UTC-7, Mohammad wrote:

"cool product but I just can't deal with the name"

We did a lot of discussion, what are the barriers you cannot think about a new name? What are the issues cannot addressed if you use a new name?

I recommend to take the risk and go for new name

Out of all the comments posted on Product Hunt, *one* person said something about the name, and didn't explain any further than "just can't deal"...

That's the person who took the time to explain. It's likely there were hundreds, or thousands, who didn't do that much.

People have busy lives. They use short-cut thinking. If you have a product name that says, in their vernacular,  "not a serious product", they will ignore it. Their thinking is rational, though subconscious: "If the author gives the product a non-serious name, the author must not be serious about the product."  To about 350 million English speaking people, "tiddler" doesn't mean "small fish". That leaves it up to their imagination to fill in the gaps.