TiddlyWiki's Killer App

[Greg Molyneux]

Hey guys,

I'd like to offer up an idea for the gearheads in the group.  I know of (and have used) any number of very handy plugins to make TiddlyWiki do some very cool things, but I'm still looking for a way to patch everything together in a way that seamlessly "just works out of the box".  When I start to get too fancy with more than a few plugins or bits of code, I find that one will break another, or not work well with something else.  There's so much potential here, scattered among each of these little projects that could - if properly coordinated - make one or more "killer apps" (think TiddlyWiki suite), and make the underlying TiddlyWiki an instant hit with average users. 

With that in mind, I offer you this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlrb7Xesp-U

The above is an introduction to Zenkit.  Now, I've seen TiddlyWiki do most if not all of these things to one degree or another, but imagine how impressive an "out of the box" TiddlyWiki instance that could do most all of these things pre-configured would be.  The components are all listed in this forum, or on Dave's DynaList page - the trick is making them all work together - same fields and what not.

I'd pay money for that, and lots of people are paying good money to Zenkit right now.  The freedom to take my data with me as I see fit in TiddlyWiki is worth a great deal; if you could combine it with a look and feel as is demonstrated in the above introduction video, you would have a winner.

Just a thought,

Greg

[Greg Molyneux]

Sorry, one more quick thought on the above:  The introductory video doesn't even mention Zenkit's mind map feature, which is half the reason (along with the kanban capability) that I started looking seriously at it.  In TiddlyWiki, we already have a killer mind map functionality in TiddlyMap!  I firmly believe that coordinating all of these components into a project/contact/task/idea/knowledge management app - or series of interoperable apps (pages), via Bob.exe - would be a huge draw for the TW community.

[TonyM]

Greg,

Zenkit looks good, in part because it provides a set of features clearly related. All except perhaps the multi-user invite members component is straightforward even on a singlfile wiki, as this requires multi-user multi-access and thus will need Bob or another solution. 

Of course TiddlyWiki can enable a user to go a lot further.

I am curious about you experience "find that one will break another, or not work well with something else" because I have not experienced this too much, and perhaps "work well" can be a little subjective.

If you were to build an equivalent to ZenKit you may call it an "Edition".

Regards

Tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Greg Molyneux wrote:

Hey guys,

(nb: I may be a woman :-)  

VERY interesting post. Thanks!

 

... When I start to get too fancy with more than a few plugins or bits of code, I find that one will break another, or not work well with something else. 

FWIW, on the whole TW has excellent compatibility. The few issues I had were around upgrades and all were solved so far.

 

The freedom to take my data with me as I see fit in TiddlyWiki is worth a great deal; if you could combine it with a look and feel as is demonstrated in the above introduction video, you would have a winner.

On this I fully agree. I'm a user first, not a programmer. 

TBH, when I first started, I would have been happy to offer 1,000 Euro to anyone who could have made 3 wikis I needed. I tried to get interest and failed.

As is it turned out, I had, through complications, to figure out a lot (too much) myself.

I DO think the situation is changing. (1) That "assemblage"   of modular parts is much closer and; (2) some key developers are less afraid of asking for money.

Best wishes

Josiash

[Greg Molyneux]

Tony,

I agree, most things do work well together.  The one that sticks out in my mind at the moment was Magic tabs not working well with my task management integration, and not working at all when I tried to switch to Dropboard to do task management.  There where other things that went sideways for me here and there, mostly because the more complex the addition, the more specific code or fields they require to manipulate their own internal structures.  While all of them are easily overcome by someone with programming experience, I am not that person.

[Greg Molyneux]

Josiah,

:)  To be completely fair, I - or anyone else on the list - may identify as any of the 100+-ish genders being thrown around in popular culture these days. But since English doesn't deal well with gender neutral pronouns, I just went with "guys", and figure anyone who really wants to be offended can indulge their grievance as deeply as they wish. :)

As I mentioned to Tony, there have been little things here and there compatibility wise, but no real show stoppers.  It's the tweaking to get them all working together without surprises that sucks up a lot of my time.

Last year, I spent months and months cobbling together a "one ring to rule them all" type of TiddlyWiki, and I owe you and Tony - among dozens of others - a debt of gratitude for the work you all have done on TW.  Where this has all gone horribly wrong for me so far is that there are so many choices, and so many additions, and so many tweaks, and so many possibilities, my OCD runs rampant, and I spend all my time tweaking, adding to, fixing, and adjusting the tool, and I never actually end up using it.  I'd added in TiddlyMap, the Rearranger, Font Awesome, Tidgraph, SlidesnStories, a great footnote amalgamation from two other solutions, Dropboard, SideEditor, and a dozen other great tools and tweaks (and have since found a few more I'd like to throw in).  I never got the interface looking the way I want, and doing so would take an HTML/CSS solution I'm not competent to develop. The sad part is, after all that work to get something I really wanted, I was never satisfied with the "feel" of the workflow because of my lack of UI customization capability, and kind of burned myself out on tweaking.  It's completely true that TW can do everything (and more) than Zenkit can do - but as Tony pointed out  Zenkit looks good, and it works in a tightly integrated fashion.

I will likely never have the coding experience to make a clean, well integrated user interface to all the cool components available now for TiddlyWiki that just "flows", so I'll have to hang on for someone else to take up the "Zenkit killer" challenge. :)  I do think the only thing we're really missing from the puzzle right now is easily plugged in "templates" (for lack of a better term) that allow the user interface to be customized simply, and different features (kanban, mindmap, tasklist, outliner, whatever) to be each accessed in a more native and well flowing manner (clicking an icon in the top corner to bring up each component's separate page, or unique interface, for example), while all retaining TiddlyWiki's tight data integration and relation capabilities on the back end.

Thanks again to each of you, and everyone who has contributed to this great project.  I've directly benefited from your work, and really enjoy the activity and atmosphere offered by this group of TW enthusiasts.

Regards,

Greg

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Greg Molyneux 

I hope you don't mind me hacking that post? I thought it very good and worth attending. I cut it down a bit. 

But, basically, think it should be read as its obviously a reflection of real direct longer term experience.

IMO, there is a huge danger with TW of getting  caught in endless "FiddlyItus."

Best wishes

Josiah

... It's the tweaking to get them all working together without surprises that sucks up a lot of my time.

... so many choices, and so many additions, and so many tweaks, and so many possibilities,

 

... my OCD runs rampant, and I spend all my time tweaking,

    adding to,

    fixing, and

    adjusting the tool,

    and I

    never actually end up using it. 

... I never got the interface looking the way I want, and

    doing so would take an HTML/CSS solution

    I'm not competent to develop. 

...  and kind of burned myself out on tweaking. 

... It's completely true that TW can do everything (and more) than Zenkit can do - but as Tony pointed out  Zenkit looks good, and it works in a tightly integrated fashion.

I will likely never have the coding experience to make a clean,

well integrated user interface to all the cool components available now for TiddlyWiki that just "flows",

so I'll have to hang on for someone else to take up the "Zenkit killer" challenge. :) 

I do think the only thing we're really missing from the puzzle right now is easily plugged in "templates" (for lack of a better term)

that allow the user interface to be customized simply, and different features (kanban, mindmap, tasklist, outliner, whatever)

to be each accessed in a more native and well flowing manner ... ,

[Greg Molyneux]

:)  I don't mind the hacking at all - that pretty well sums it up.

Regards,

Greg