Dear Tiddlywiki Group admin: please enable tags feature

[Mohammad]

Dear Tiddlywiki admin,

Would you please add the Tag feature to group. This is so simple and I have given how-to-do at the bottom of this post.

Cheers

Mohammad

Ref: https://support.google.com/groups/answer/2645570?hl=en

More info: https://www.dummies.com/education/internet-basics/how-to-set-tags-in-google-groups/

Google Groups enables you to classify the posts in your group with tags to make them easier for your users to find. Tags are keywords that your members use to associate their posts with certain subject areas. For example, if you run a group called Gardening, you may use tags like vegetables, flowers, trees, and so on. So, when a member posts about planting pear trees, he or she could add the tag trees. Other members can then search on the tag trees and find all posts with that tag.

Turn on tags or categories

If you’re an owner or manager, you can turn on tags or categories to organize a group’s posts.

• Turn on tags to label posts with keywords. Owners and managers can create tags, and members can use them to label posts. Tags can be up to 20 characters long.
• Turn on categories to organize the first page in a group into a list of categories. Posts are sorted into those categories.

You can only turn on tags or categories, but not both at the same time.

1. Sign in to Google Groups.
2. Click My Groups.
3. Choose a group.
4. Near the top right, click Manage.
5. On the left, click Settings.
6. Choose Tags or Categories.
   • To switch from Tags to Categories, click Enable categories.
   • To switch from Categories to Tags, click Enable tags.
7. Enter keywords to use for the tags or categories that will organize posts in your group.
8. Click Save.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

An issue is email users, I'm pretty sure they  can't use tags or categories in emails so it has to be done manually later on web. Doubt that's workable.

The idea is good since GG does have a basic tagging system but, short of a skilled moderator, I think it would get "patchy"?

Best wishes

Josiah

[Mohammad]

That's right Josiah,

 But searching the forum using web browser make life much easier using tags!

By the way I am not sure if email user can use tag, but one solution could be adding extra words as tag to the end of message title!

--Mohammad

[HansWobbe]

Just a test.  there are a lot of Unicode characters, many of which should work. 🐟

ℋans

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

At root your post is, I think, about finding things on GG?

In the past I have been one of the biggest critics of GG. You'd maybe not know. Precisely because its really difficult to find things. So my older posts about how crap the search in GG  got lost in the "Google Swamp." 

I want to share with you practical strategies I sometimes use to locate past threads I started...

 Strategy One - use a phrase in the TITLE of a post that is unique, not used before and unlikely to be used again. For example ...

- This search brings up relevant posts because I used the phrase "Houston, I have a problem" in the title.

  Its not listed first, though it should be, it IS found:  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/tiddlywiki/Houston$2C$20I$20have$20a$20problem%7Csort:date

Strategy Two - use a unique phrase INSIDE the post.

- This search brings up humorous posts I made about the fictional user "April Mackenzie" though it doesn't show all the times I mention her in the thread "Tiddly Smile ..."

  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/tiddlywiki/april$20mackenzie 

The GG native search mechanism is VERY deficient. If you don't use unique strings it is useless to find anything.

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad

Some more on the issue of finding things ...

If you compare my search from GG for "April Mackenzie" to that found on www.mail-archive.com ...

You will see how much more accurate it is: https://www.mail-archive.com/search?q=April+Mackenzie&l=tiddlywiki%40googlegroups.com

Josiah

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

I’m happy to experiment with switching on tagging on Google Groups, only adding my customary reminder that this started as an old fashioned email-based mailing list, and we need to continue to support people who joined it on that basis. Personally, I try to avoid interacting with the web based interface as much as possible, but I appreciate that it works well for others.

Anyhow, before we switch it on, I think it would be worth figuring out a basic list of 5-10 tags that I can enter into the “tag suggestions” box (see below). That way we might be able to avoid people adopting ad-hoc tags that don’t match.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

On 24 Feb 2019, at 15:45, Mohammad <mohammad...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Tiddlywiki admin,

Would you please add the Tag feature to group. This is so simple and I have given how-to-do that at the bottom of this post.

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[S. S.]

Just <$count filter={{$:/core/Filters/AllTags!!filter}}/> tags to choose from!
<$list filter={{$:/core/Filters/AllTags!!filter}}>
<$transclude tiddler="$:/core/ui/TagTemplate
"/>
</$list>

Just 246 to choose from!

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad & Hans

I did not want to derail you with a discussion of search in general, but the problem is that email users can't do tagging so attention is needed to what can be found via searching?

I am NOT sure if its viable. (I.e. I'm not sure if the GG search mechanism would honour it) but maybe using simple hashtags (#) in post titles might help ...

For example ... 

Title: "My Post About A New Tabs  Plugin -- #plugin #tabs"

It would need testing.

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

S.S.

I think its a relevant point. 

Zillions of tag choices is too many.

Too few is not enough.

In terms of tags what number is workable to assist use?

IMO, given that email users can't tag I'm wondering if, instead, we just need a better way to interrogate mail-archive.com?

Just thoughts

Josiah

[Jeremy Ruston]

I don’t think the tags we use here need be influenced by those used on tiddlywiki.com.  I was thinking of types of post:

#question

#newbie

#announcement

#offtopic

I don’t think we need many topic tags. Things like:

#saving

#wikitext

#filters

#widgets

#css

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[PMario]

Hi Jeremy,

May be Joe Armstrong has an algorithm, that can search some of our posts and make some suggestions. eg: top 10

-m

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jeremy Ruston wrote:

... this started as an ... email-based mailing list, and we need to continue to support people who joined it on that basis. Personally, I try to avoid interacting with the web based interface as much as possible...

Right.

Practically it would be useful to know, I think, what proportion of users are only on email?

Do you know?

Best wishes

Josiah

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Josiah

Right.

Practically it would be useful to know, I think, what proportion of users are only on email?

Do you know?

The member management screen shows whether individual users are subscribed via email, but I don’t see a way to get overall stats.

But I don’t think the precise numbers matter; we’ve evidently got countably numbers of users who never visit the web interface and users who never use the email interface. I don’t know that I’d make decisions differently if there were 1%, 10% or 70% of users on email… We need to support everyone.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

Best wishes

Josiah

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[@TiddlyTweeter]

Josiah: Practically it would be useful to know, I think, what proportion of users are only on email?

 

Jeremy: ... I don’t think the precise numbers matter... We need to support everyone.

Jeremy

Right. But I don't see how web-only tagging is easily compatible with that? 

Not without someone tagging email posts post-hoc on web. Or a way to "surrogate" flag them with a tag in Title  (which gets back to the old search problem).

Best wishes

Josiah

[Jeremy Ruston]

I don't know how Google Groups tagging features actually work, but I'd been hoping that they would let the community/administrators change the tags for posts. It's hard to imagine the feature being useful if we had to rely on the tags added by the original poster.

Best wishes

Jeremy

--

Jeremy Ruston

jer...@jermolene.com

https://jermolene.com

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[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jeremy Ruston wrote:

I don't know how Google Groups tagging features actually work, but I'd been hoping that they would let the community/administrators change the tags for posts. It's hard to imagine the feature being useful if we had to rely on the tags added by the original poster...

As far as I understand it: tags (or categories, you can use either cats or tags, but not both) are usually initially defined by the admin.

The application of the tags is usually by user self-selection (which can be forced online--i.e. "select at least one before you post").

I think they can also be applied or removed by moderators.

Our use case does need thought about where do email users fit into this scenario in a fair way.

Best wishes

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

The good Lord ...

I have written far, far too much in this thread! :-) 

[One might think I was obsessive--I'm not--just--let's be sure first!]

Why? Because I'm concerned that adding tags actually won't help you find things much and it adds complexity to posting and maintenance. Especially on the email side.

... For example: you tag a post "My new plugin" as "plugin", how much easier would that make finding it?

    It still seems so generic, so how would it help?

I'd like, I think, to see a google group that uses tags that shows how they help find things.

That's all,

Josiah 

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad

I just did crude testing of the "tag" system. As far as I understand it the choice is only active for the first post in a thread?

Josiah

[Mohammad]

Hello Jeremy,

Many thanks for accepting this. Yes, that is right we need to choose some tags. I will send my suggestion in another post after have a closer look at Tiddlywiki.com

Josiah,

 Adding tag will not change anything for email users, so they send and revive posts as before!

BUT for web users, like Tiddlywiki tags, you can click on tag and filter posts discussing that tags.

This will make search and find in GG simpler. That is it!

By the way as you and Hans proposed, having meaningful post title and adding keywords at the beginning or bottom of post will be of great help

is search and find topics

--Mohammad

[Mohammad]

Hi Josiah,

1. The owner or creator of post can set the tag not those reply
2. GG Owner (admin) can change the tag set by a post creator
3. If you send from email, you cannot set the tag, BUT if you are the creator of that post, you add/change/edit the tags whenever you visit the forum page. See below

0

Unfortunately no, there isn't a way for the email sender to assign a Google Groups tag to the emails that are being sent to a Google Group.

---

From Tag topics - Groups Help

Note: You must be the creator of a topic to add tags to the topic.

If you are the creator of the topic

To tag a topic after a topic has been created:

1. From the Topic screen, click on the 'add tags' link next to the topic's title. The Edit Tags dialog box appears.
2. Click on the tags (in blue; next to "suggested tags") you want to add to the topic. Tags appear in the field as they are added.
3. Click Save changes. Tags are added to the topic.

[Mohammad]

Hi again Jeremy

I may suggest these two categories of tags:

-general Tags

• question
• announcement (GG already has this and people can select when click on new post)
• bug (or issue)
• offtopic
• newbie
• tutorial
• resource

-specific tags (not plural or plural, we should decide)

• wikitext
• widget
• filter
• operator
• macro
• template
  
• plugin
• theme
• saving
  
• node.js
  
• single-file

I think you can set 10 - 15 tags, and people can select among them, so no need to memorize, BUT have to choose one tag!

I just send my suggestion, hope others share ideas.

-Mohammad

[Mohammad]

One more thing Jeremy

If you think this forum is best used for question and answer you benefit from these features

• Choose as best answer
• like or unlike (give a rank)
• me to

Of course I am not sure if this forum is only for Q&A.

To set Q&A feature  see

https://support.google.com/a/answer/126169?hl=en

Actually from Manage group -> Information -> Advanced -> Group type

This is only a suggestion.

--Mohammad

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

Your tags look good!

This is neat and fitting for ANNOUNCING but there is an issue that will arise often in the forum ...

It is this ... that a thread starts as tag: "QUESTION" but within the answers is an superb "macro" SOLUTION that is NOT tagged as there is no mechanism within threads to do that.

This is an issue in the utility of the approach to initial post tagging. It orphans solutions within them.

That the initial tag does not indicate the thread holds a solution. 

But its only the solution that is of interest long term.

Lets get this right.

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad

This group is not in Q & A mode. Its a specific modality of GG.

Just saying,

J.

[Mohammad]

That's correct Josiah, But this is the situation we have now!

--Mohammad

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

I've gone ahead and enabled tags with the following list of tags:

question announcement bug offtopic newbie tutorial resource wikitext widget filter operator macro template plugin theme saving nodejs singlefile

Perhaps it's worth starting a new thread for feedback on it now that we've decided to trial it,

Best wishes

Jeremy

[Mohammad]

Many Thanks Jeremy!

Hope tagging help in organizing posts and simpler finding the topics!

I will create a new thread and announce it!

Best Mohammad

[Mohammad]

Jeremy

 I cannot see the tag bar!

Would you please check it! 

--Mohammad

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

I see it at the bottom of the "New post" screen; it doesn't seem to appear for existing posts.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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Jeremy Ruston

jer...@jermolene.com

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[Mohammad]

Thanks!

Yes, it works!

I can click on tags and add them.

Best

Mohammad

[Mohammad]

Hi Jeremy!

 In the current list of forum tag there is nothing for CSS or Stylesheet!

I appreciate if you add one of them.

--Mohammad

On Monday, February 25, 2019 at 4:32:01 PM UTC+3:30, Jeremy Ruston wrote:

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mohammad

I’ve added “css” as a new suggested tag,

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Jeremy

Request: A "TiddlyDesktop" tag would be useful!

Best wishes

Josiah

[Jeremy Ruston]

Thanks Josiah, I’ve added a “tiddlydesktop” tag,

Best wishes

Jeremy

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