Let's make 5.1.17 more visual!

[Mat]

http://visual-tw.tiddlyspot.com/

(just a prototype)

Thoughts?

@Jeremy, could a thing like this, if properly designed, replace parts of the Controlpanel in the core!? Our current ctrlpanel leaves a lot to be desired, IMO.

<:-)

[Jed Carty]

I like this but I think that it should probably be a plugin. Possibly one that is shipped with an empty tiddlywiki like the snow white theme but having everything use popups like that can be a bit of an accessibility problem so it shouldn't be the only option.

If we can make this work I think that a future improvement would be to put the editing buttons into the display templates and have their visibility toggled by enabling a settings mode or something like that. If that doesn't break everything. It may cause trouble with custom themes.

I like the idea of being able to click on a part of the wiki I want to customise and not have to worry about names or finding the settings. I think that this would be a big improvement.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I agree broadly about "more visual." But I'm not sure about whether, in the end, for configuration it would be an overall benefit. I guess it depends a bit on the use cases--frequency of needing quick access to settings likely most important? How frequent is that?

Messy as it can get, the Control Panel is increasingly used for adding a tab for different plugin config options. In some ways that is good. Doing stuff "in-place", as you illustrate, might also create confusion? Maybe its as much about "consistency" as "visuality"?

And what would be the overhead of your idea?

Josiah

[Mat]

On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 11:41:24 AM UTC+2, Jed Carty wrote:

I like this but I think that it should probably be a plugin. Possibly one that is shipped with an empty tiddlywiki like the snow white theme

You're right; I didn't mean "core", I meant to ask if a good implementation of this could be included in empty edition. (@Jeremy - ?)

but having everything use popups like that can be a bit of an accessibility problem so it shouldn't be the only option.

Any suggestion for alternatives to popups? (other than current status, of course). 

 

If we can make this work I think that a future improvement would be to put the editing buttons into the display templates and have their visibility toggled by enabling a settings mode or something like that.

You mean into the standard display templates like the tiddler viewtemplate, the page template etc?

(...and maybe that is what you see as an alternative to popups)

Yes, to have "controls" collected in one place is really a compromise if you think about it. It may seem convenient to gather it all in one place but not only does that single place quickly jumble up but the whole concept is an extra layer of conceptual abstraction... "in order to change this I have to go to there"

There could be a "global settings toggle" and a "local settings toggle" to customize globally (e.g all tiddlers) or specific instances. I imagine a toggle buttton as a tiddler toolbar item.

 

I like the idea of being able to click on a part of the wiki I want to customise and not have to worry about names or finding the settings. I think that this would be a big improvement.

 

In deed.

<:-)

[Mat]

@TiddlyTweeter wrote:

I agree broadly about "more visual." But I'm not sure about whether, in the end, for configuration it would be an overall benefit. I guess it depends a bit on the use cases--frequency of needing quick access to settings likely most important? How frequent is that?

Well, the layout likely doesn't affect the frequency.... or, well, perhaps a little; I'm guessing an eye pleasing UI encourages trying out stuff. But IMO the main benefit is the wow-factor. Surely a nice visual UI is much cooler than a text based such ;-)

Messy as it can get, the Control Panel is increasingly used for adding a tab for different plugin config options. In some ways that is good. Doing stuff "in-place", as you illustrate, might also create confusion? Maybe its as much about "consistency" as "visuality"?

Just to make sure; I envision (something like) the demo to be in the Controlpanel, e.g as one of the tabs there. But maybe we could design something that completely covers everything in the standard Control panel. That doesn't prevent additional "addings of tabs" though. But if we get it going, then there might just be a little toolbox of visual pieces (e.g a simplified "tiddler", a mock-up "row of tabs" etc) that plugin designers can pick from when designing his config options.

Regarding confusion - I think an interactive visual display would be superior to minimizing confusion. 

 

And what would be the overhead of your idea?

Depends but not as much as it may seem like; Most of what is shown is in the demo is just html+ CSS. And most of the CSS is already in the empty TW. Also, implementing this would also mean removal of some of the current stuff.

<:-)

[Jed Carty]

I am not sure that it would actually be better than what you have made (your demo is great) but I think that maybe instead of a popup you could just open up a tiddler that has the relevant options.

And yes, I mean in the normal templates. But the buttons there would do the same things as the buttons in your demo. With a popup if that is what you decide to use.

[TonyM]

Mat,

I like the look of this and it would be nice to have a panel or two that use this visual representation, It would speed adoption. It could be a removable plugin that comes with empty.html

One area I caution is "if this were a book added to a pile of books would I then have trouble changing a book lower down in the pile?"

I am currently looking at and proposing the adoption of an additional template to include along with Edit and View templates - called an update template. It would resemble the view template but display editable fields and/or tags but hide the edit toolbar. The question would be can I leverage the visual control panel for this new template or will users get further lost because the update template does not include this visual settings view?

Great initiative.

Go for it if you can, just consider forward compatibility.

Regards

Tony

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi folks,

I like the general idea of illustrating how things are connected – like settings and layout. My long term vision would correspond with Jed’s togglable settings-mode for the view template ... but I suppose this would be a lot of work.

Principles like mobile first and accessibility should be considered if this should become part of the core or (my personal preference) an official plugin.

Another area in the control panel that should get some attention is the palette editor. If you define identical colours via <<colour ...>> macro, you get no preview, the same is true if you define colours in rgb or rgba. And you get no idea how foreground and background work together.

In my Bricks Studio you will find a concept that shows every color as a preview, even if it is defined via a macro, and that illustrates readability of foreground and background according to WCAG 2.0:

I’m sure that this should be further improved too ...

Cheers,

Thomas