my backstage gone after downloading/installing plugins

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

Is this where i can get help?
i'm very new at this, and while i have some knowledge of html and CSS through years of website management, tiddlywiki has a learning curve, and i'm at the starting line.
So.

I would much appreciate some help on this.
I'm using TW desktop. Windows 10/Firefox.

I had created a few tinkles. LOL. tiddles? oh, tiddlers. yeah.

and i had added some buttons i wanted in the settings/setup. It was starting to make sense.

then i added some of the plugins on the list, and refreshed, and nothing came back.
i closed out and tried to start again and couldn't figure out how to start it again.
when i clicked the TW desktop icon on my taskbar, I clicked on backstage button where i found the place to enter tiddlers finally, and nothing opened. no backstage.

I tried opening the html files where i stored it on an external drive and still nothing.
(I had created a storage folder, MyTiddlyWiki, on my external hard drive, and it had two files --- main (1).html and main.html)

did i somehow delete everything?

how do i get to that backstage area again? (and next time). Do i need to just create a link on my desktop to the tiddlywiki folder? or html file?

Where oh where did my newly created tiddlers go?

I feel like Little Bo Peep.

ADDENDUM:

by the way, when i opened the html file, it sent me here, with these errors.

ADDENDUM AGAIN: okay, i guess i was being a noob. i did find the tiddlers i created under a tab in the sidebar. so guess they weren't lost, I WAS. :)


Still have the issue with the errors that pop up after adding plugins, and also why i can't get the backstage button to work like it did before.... could use help with that.

[Mat]

Hi Kelli and warmly welcome.

I'm afraid I won't be able to answer your questions but just want you to note that many here get their google group postings via email. This means that edits (addendums) to a post are not seen. So I'd recommend that you simply add a new post below the first instead.

As for the red errors, it would be useful if you can describe the exact steps that produce it. That way it can be investigated.

<:-)

[Birthe C]

Hi Kelli,

Welcome!

Looking at your images it seems to me that you have created your own tiddlers in the backstage.

Tiddlydesktop is itself a tiddlywiki. You are supposed to open your own tiddlywiki file or folder, to start working with your own material (creating tiddlers).

At least that is what I thought after having looked at your images.

Please do not let this scare you from using tiddlywiki, it is worth it,

Birthe

[Mat]

Kelli, in case you're very much a beginner you might consider starting out with only a TiddlyWiki to get the hang of it before you add TiddlyDesktop? TiddlyWiki itself is just a html file so it can be a "desktop app" too, if that is what you prefer.

If you want it online, I'd recommend Tiddlyspot which is a free hosting service. It is most easily set up here.

<:-)

[@TiddlyTweeter]

IF you edited the "Backstage" (its a Wiki) without knowing exactly what you are doing you could have trouble :-)  

Its not a normal wiki in that the rest of the TiddlyDesktop (TD) relies on it.

IF you edited "Backstage" I suggest ...

1 - BACKUP up your install of TD (essential!)

2 - Do a fresh install over the original

Does that fix the issue?

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

Okay--first, thank you so much for your kind responses. Appreciate that!
hopefully this is how I'm to post those addendums. They are at the end of my original post, but it was pointed out that they might not appear to most people in this group becuase it's through email. Not sure i understand that, as I"m used to a forum format...but anyway, i can see the addendums below this text...so not sure why others can't see it. Shall i just post all of this again in one complete post?

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

to continue, though....

i did manage to find the file where it saved....and I've since added quite a few tiddlers. I think I have a better grasp on it. I have watched several tutorials and read almost all the documentation, as well.

So... the MyTiddlyWiki folder that has main.html is the starter page that tells you how to get going, i assume. (And then the files I create are saved to other files elsewhere. (Which is why i was confused and thought my tiddlers were gone--they were in another file, elsewhere. I think). So located those, but...

1. Problem is, they all seem to be saving to my downloads folder, which is not where i thought i set them up to go. I need them on an external hard drive. So i need help with finding the setting to send them to the right location.

2. does each update on tiddlers create a whole new html file?

I noticed a whole bunch of them in that downloads folder. How can i keep track of edits/changes/additions, if there's a new html each time? I thought it was all supposed to save in one html file that is then updated and changed as you go--?(i did download and install some type of saving plugins, so maybe it's related to that?)

I have used OneNote for years, and preferred it over the other 30 programs i tried when i wanted to divorce Microsoft, and have more control over my data. I can see that TiddlyWiki is exactly what i need. As an INdie Author and publisher, i have many thousands of files and many hundreds of categories to keep track of, and i think half my work time is spent searching for something, or trying to figure out if ti's the most current iteration of that file. What i liked about OneNote, was that i could categorize everything in that hierarchical system, and also include many subject areas, including separate notebooks for personal files. so i can see how TiddlyWiki will handle all that much better.

To that end, my next questions are about those html files again...

 3. If i want to keep my personal files separate from business ones, should i create a new main.html file for that?

and would that go in a separate folder with a different name like main2.html?

or would it be personal.html?

or does it just need to be in another distinct folder?

How does that keep from getting confusing?

And I assume those other personal files would be in another tiddlywiki tab in my browser, since it's a distinct html?

SORRY! I know that's a lot to ask.

AND......I still get that error when i openTW fresh each time... (see below in original post with addendums). But Still have the issue with the errors that pop up after adding plugins

Thank you so much for your previous responses!

[TonyM]

Kelli

Since you have chosen to use tiddly desktop note how you can create file or folder wikis. File refers to single wiki and is fine for personal use.

Regards
Tony

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

sorry? i'm not sure what you mean. I can create file or folder wikis in desktop? The "add a TW file" and Add a TW folder" buttons open up my computer files, but don't CREATE a new TW file or folder.(the file currently there in the picture was me testing it last time, and pulling in a file from my computer. I can't remove it, as that button doesn't work...The Settings, Help and Backstage buttons don't do anything at all either. I'm obviously confused about what the desktop app does.  What is its function? to view TW files/tiddlers already created in the webpage/browser interface?

[TonyM]

Kelli,

I think you are taking a path that is confusing you. Personally I suggest deleting TiddlyDesktop (TS) and installing it a fresh. Tiddly desktops backstage is how tiddlydesktop works, I suggest do not touch it.

Now go to tiddlywiki.com and down load empty.html and save it somewhere in you documents. Copy this file to text.html or any new wiki name you want to create as many times as you want, each copy creates a new wiki. Now open TiddlyDesktop (TS) and add a TiddlyWiki file. Browse to a wiki file and select it. It will now be listed in TS, click open and make changes to you wiki as you want.

If you use the nodeJS version of tiddlywiki to create a wiki, it will result in a folders version of tiddlywiki, which you can also select to list in TiddlyDesktop and open if from there. In both cases tiddlydesktop automatically saves you wiki where you opened it.

Key advantages of TiddlyWiki desktop

• Has its own built in browser
• Can link to an open local applications and folders (can't on regular browsers because of security)
• Can be used to share the wiki on your local area network (I have not tested this)

If you just want to play and get a little confidence try https://noteself.github.io/ online

If you use FireFox I recommend installing Timimi which will allow you to open and automatically save File:// addressed Tiddlywikis in your browser. Some prefer this over TiddlyDesktop because of the add-ins and tools available in their favorite browser.

Best of luck

Tony

[Jeremy Ruston]

Just to add that it's not enough to delete and re-install TiddlyDesktop. One also needs to delete the application data folder. The location of the folder depends on your operating system, though. On Macs it's in ~/Library/Application Support/TiddlyDesktop, and I believe it's C:\Users[YOUR_USER_NAME]\AppData\Local\TiddlyWiki on Windows.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

--

Jeremy Ruston

jer...@jermolene.com

https://jermolene.com

On 1 Jul 2019, at 05:51, TonyM <anthony...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mat]

Kelli Jae Baeli wrote:

hopefully this is how I'm to post those addendums. They are at the end of my original post, but it was pointed out that they might not appear to most people in this group becuase it's through email. Not sure i understand that, as I"m used to a forum format...but anyway, i can see the addendums below this text...so not sure why others can't see it. Shall i just post all of this again in one complete post?

You should add addendums etc as new posts. The point was just that if you edit an already posted post, then this edit will not be reflected for those who prefer to read the forum via email.

With that said, occasionally it does make sense to edit the very initial post so that new readers of the thread (on the board) avoid possible misunderstandings that were revealed later in the thread.

<:-)

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

Tony--thanks for you help....I didn't know i wasn't supposed to touch the backstage on desktop. It's not exactly clear on much of this when you're just getting started. Once i understand the filing system and the particulars, i'm sure it will all make sense.

so..burning question: Will deleting and reinstalling tiddly desktop affect any of the files i've already created? I am not about to start over entering all that information again. And here's what those files look like...so I'll wait for an answer to that, before i do anything. I don't want to lose several days of work. It does sound like using desktop is still the way to go for me, all things considered. At the risk of belaboring the point, I just want to be sure I'm not endangering the work/tiddler-creation I've already done.

I'm still not sure why these main(#).html files are in the download directory, nor why there are so many, nor if this means all my data is spread out over all those files, and not consolidated in just one. (or ARE they? and if so, where is THAT file?)

I've downloaded the empty.html file and created copies of it, and renamed it to a couple other things, (literati.html and personalbiz.html) but those are in the Tiddlywiki directory with the original main files; and all my other files, as I said, are in my downloads folder. Maybe because my browser is set to save to the downloads folder, i assume?--if that's true, then if i change the location for downloading in firefox, does that mean all the other stuff i download will end up with TW files, instead of the downloads folder?

I also downloaded Timimi as you suggested, but haven't dealt with that yet.

I have more questions but only because i can't seem to find this information anywhere else.

one of the most pressing is about images...i really need to place images in tiddlers regularly, and be able to see them,  and it seems that's a feature that doesn't exist. this could be a deal breaker for me, but hopefully there's a workaround. i would think it's odd not to have that ability, since it's all html/css and that's meant for webpages, which are full of images...but then, this TW application is being used differently i suppose.

Okay, forgive my ruminations. I still appreciate any help, even if it's to point me toward helpful documentation (or toward the door :)

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

see, now this is sounding complicated and destructive. will this affect the files i've already created?

On Monday, July 1, 2019 at 5:01:59 AM UTC-5, Jeremy Ruston wrote:

Just to add that it's not enough to delete and re-install TiddlyDesktop. One also needs to delete the application data folder. The location of the folder depends on your operating system, though. On Macs it's in ~/Library/Application Support/TiddlyDesktop, and I believe it's C:\Users[YOUR_USER_NAME]\AppData\Local\TiddlyWiki on Windows.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

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jer...@jermolene.com

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[Anthony Muscio]

Kelli,

I do not believe a reinstall will touch your files however compress them all into a zipfile as a backup and move that elsewhere for safety.

I do not think the number of files is caused by tiddlydesktop. But I will review your post tomorrow. +12 hours.

Regards

Tony

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[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Kelli

see, now this is sounding complicated and destructive. will this affect the files i've already created?

No. Deleting the TiddlyDesktop application data folder just deletes all the settings. The wiki list is cleared (but not the actual wiki files themselves) so you’ll need to re-add your wikis to the list. It is the recommended procedure if you want to undo changes to the backstage wiki.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[Birthe C]

Hi Kelli,

If you have not installed a saver for tiddlywiki, your browser saves everything to your download folder. At your first post you told us you used Firefox. If so you could intall timimi in your browser.

If you do not use a saver, you are using the download saver. If so you can overwrite the same file to avoid getting so many. It is alright to do that for now, as you can move your file later, and open it from Tiddlydesktop (after deleting the one you have now and reinstalling).

I think it will be a good idea to install the plugins you wanted in your empty tiddlywiki file before opening it in Tiddlydektop.

That is a lot of files for sure. Try to open the file that was written to your system at the latest time. I am not using Windows myself, but I am sure you must have an option for that. Open that file in your browser. That way you find out if every tiddler you wrote is there. If they are you should be able to export your tiddlers from the sidebar tab called tools. chose export as json.

Download https://tiddlywiki.com/empty

Reinstall the plugins you wanted.

import you tiddlers from the json file.

Finally delete Tiddlydekstop and reinstall it.

open tiddlydektop and select open from file.

Good luck,

Birthe

[TonyM]

Kelli,

Sounds like you are slowly getting the information you need. 

I suggest starting a new thread for your image handling issue. A simple drag and drop can work in most cases however since it gets stored in the wiki you need to use other methods if you have a lot of images. Normally once you put in an image you can open the tiddler and see it or use transclusion to include it elsewhere {{imagetiddlername}} see how the icon field works.

Tiddlywiki is in some ways simple for what you can do but it is also so extensive in possibilities, it can also seem overwhelming especially if you get excited and try to do a lot quickly. If you have not yet I suggest downloading a copy and working through the documentation found on tiddlywiki.com, you can add all your own notes: I have a variation of tiddlywiki.com for teaching yourself here http://tiddlywiki.psat.com.au/learn/ Download the full copy which includes all the tiddlywiki.com documentation, ways to take notes, log your activity and more. If you install Timimi, once downloaded and saved in your document folders double clicking the file will open it and automatically save, you will be unlikely to get all those files in your downloads directory.

Tiddlywiki.com includes links to community resources and teach yourself information.

Google, Google Google with TiddlyWiki in your search and you will find more resources.

When posting here it is best to have a heading that describes the issue, so unless related try and start a thread for each issue, people that help can see what you need more easily rather than look through a longer post.

We are on your side, and always learn from new starters so you will not be "shown the door". You are now part of our community.

Regards

Tony

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

Hi Birthe. Thanks.
I exported to json file as suggested, but i have no idea where the file went.

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

thanks so much for your help and all the great information, Tony. And for making me feel welcome.

You'll be happy to know that i have been Googling, and i have four tabs open for different help pages right this minute. :)
SOrry about the no title on posts. i thought it picked up on the previous title, when replying. So when i reply like this, how do i put a title on it? i can't find where to do that in a reply. (Sorry, again, i'm used to forums for this stuff, rather than a Google group format).

Anxious to have a look at your link, too. thanks for that. I downloaded timimi, but haven't installed it yet. not sure if i know how. will have to look again. I guess i have too may irons in the fire! but that's what is called NORMAL for me.

By the way, i tried drag and drop and that didn't work--or maybe it just didn't work the way i imagined it would. :)
Will start another post about images.

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

sorry. the json tiddler backup went to downloads folder, of course.

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

thanks so much, Jeremy. Appreciate your help!

Hi Kelli

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

Hey Tony, having trouble even loading/starting the tiddlydesktop app--the video instruction is for MAc, and I'm in windows. there is no cat icon in mine, and the only executable file with an icon in the folder is nw.exe and when i click that, nothing happens. Where is the exe file to open the tiddlydesktop?

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

okay, i had trouble understanding the accent..the cat icon is on mac, but i did try to open the appropriate file on windows -nw.exe-- and nothing happens.

[Birthe C]

Hi Kelli,

I tried to install Timimi yesterday running linux. I tried the older version for Chrome and Chromium, that did not work for me. It installed but saved nothing.

Then I tried the latest release for Firefox. I constantly were told that something was missing. 

The instruction for installation is here https://ibnishak.github.io/Timimi/#Installing%20Timimi.

Birthe

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

Sorry, i got super busy, but now i want to come back to this, as i want to get all my created tiddlers into the desktop app, rather than being stored as a new file each time i save something, using the firefox browser....

When I try to use the TiddlyDesktop, i can't. None of the buttons work, they don't do anything. I also have trouble even gettting it to open, now.

here is a screenshot of my desktop and the file i've been trying to open...(nw.exe) if this isn't the file, where is the file to open tiddlydesktop? last time it closed i couldn't find it again and couldn't open that interface for it. And, as mentioned in my previous post, once i did get it open, none of those add files/folders buttons worked. they didn't do anything.

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Kelli

On 11 Jul 2019, at 07:46, Kelli Jae Baeli <jaeb...@gmail.com> wrote:

here is a screenshot of my desktop and the file i've been trying to open...(nw.exe) if this isn't the file, where is the file to open tiddlydesktop? last time it closed i couldn't find it again and couldn't open that interface for it. And, as mentioned in my previous post, once i did get it open, none of those add files/folders buttons worked. they didn't do anything.

nw.exe is indeed the way to start TiddlyDesktop.

It seems like your configuration is broken. To fix it, you need to completely terminate the process (either by restarting your machine, or using task manager to close any nw.exe processes). One also needs to delete the application data folder. The location of the folder depends on your operating system, though. On Macs it's in ~/Library/Application Support/TiddlyDesktop, and I believe it's C:\Users[YOUR_USER_NAME]\AppData\Local\TiddlyWiki on Windows. Delete that folder, and then re-run nw.exe

Best wishes

Jeremy

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

thank you Jeremy...did that. and the interface tiddlydesktop came up, but as you can see in the screenshot, i still get that java error when i try to add a file.

Also, here's a screenshot of the search results for TIDDLY, if that helps.

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

Okay, so since i got the main file renamed and created a new folder in which to save files for TW, i noticed any additions/tiddlers end up saving again to the download folder. I'm not sure why, since i opened the new file (copied, pasted and renamed) made a tiddler, and saved it right then...i expected it to save in the originating folder....SO, how do i make sure it saves to the right folder, and how do i automate that so i don't have to select yes to the html and yes to json saves each time?

And the javascript error....i've just been clicking out of it...any idea how to get rid of this error whenever i open a file? (it seems to be working now, as far as the desktop module and such, i just always get this error...text, in case someone else might be searching for this issue too):

Internal JavaScript Error

Well, this is embarrassing. It is recommended that you restart TiddlyWiki by refreshing your browserUncaught Cannot find module named 'fs' required by module '$:/TiddlyDesktop/startup/handlers.js', resolved to fs

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Kelli

It’s really hard to know what’s going on with your installation because all the signs are that it has been corrupted. Hence the suggestion to completely uninstall and re-install TiddlyDesktop. if you’re still seeing errors even when working with a blank TiddlyWiki then it would seem that the uninstallation wasn’t completed successfully. I’d suggest following the steps outlined earlier in this thread (1) delete the folder containing nw.exe and (2) delete the application data folder (see my notes above to locate it).

Good luck

Best wishes

Jeremy

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[TonyM]

Also....

I would add I think Kellie is making an assumption that is not true, I am not sure what but it seems the case.

In case this is true, I suggest with here fresh install of tiddlydesktop 

1. Delete TiddlyDesktop and Reinstall (move any existing wiks elsewhere if they are in the same place as TiddlyDesktop)
2. Downloads a fresh empty.html, 
3. rename it to say mywiki.html and save it in a documents folder.
4. In "TiddlyDesktop - Main" select "Add tiddlywiki file" and browse to your mywiki.html
5. Opening this will open the wiki in its own window and add it to the list in TiddlyDesktop

A helpful hint. Once you have the wiki running import a png file to a tiddler and rename it $:/favicon.ico the icon will appear in the TiddlyDesktop list.

Regards

Tony

Jeremy

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[Kelli Jae Baeli]

I've already tried all that.

Jeremy

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[Kelli Jae Baeli]

what assumption am i making that isn't true, exactly?

And i've already done all of this you suggest. As i said, i can now use the desktop module, and i have a different folder set up for saving, and that seems to work, but i still have the java error, still have the issue with no autosave...have to acknowledge the save on both files each time i make the slightest change, and it is saving separate files still, instead of to the main html folders (one for biz, one for personal). I still don't want a thousand files created each time i spend a day working. so if anyone can offer solutions for those things, i have at least solved the rest, now.

Thanks.

[TonyM]

Kelli,

This does not happen for me. So do tell

• What kind of wiki? File or Folder? In TiddlyDesktop I assume.
• Exactly how are you installing plugins?

My prefered method to install plugins is to

• open the wiki, in this case with tiddlyDesktop. 
• In a wiki with the plugin installed go to Control Panel > Plugins
• Click drag the "Plugins bar" over to my wiki untill I see the "Green Bar" Appear, and drop it there.
• Save and Reload the wiki (if not done yet), (perhaps close and reopen in TiddlyDesktop incase)

[TonyM]

Kelli

That is the Million Dollar Question "what assumption am I making that isn't true" and it stands for us all.

Your experience is in my memory "unheard of", I just does not make sence to me, and I believe no one has being able to reproduce the problem.

From your original post you also said some odd things like using the backstage to install plugins. This is no reflection on you at all, we just need to workout what is going wrong for you and try and fix it, as well as avoid it in the future.

Perhaps if you can use Teamviewer to screen share sometime with me and show how you do it. Perhaps I will spot what is wrong.

I am not happy if there is one unhappy customer.

Regards

Tony

[Kelli Jae Baeli]

I believe ive been very clear, and I'm not sure why it's not making sense to you. I've even provided screenshots. I think that Tiddlywiki is brilliant and just what i need to manage complex and voluminous information I have to manage, but most of the people involved in it are far more geeky than I am. I think some of you forget that half of what we find in the way of information, is geek-speak and we don't all understand it. It's not our language. That does not, however, imply that we are any less intelligent. We just all have our own areas of expertise. I have had a great deal of time finding answers in the manual and here. I have very little extra time to spend searching for it. I work 7 days per week, and often 15 hours a day just to keep up with everything...so....
I have some of the issues worked out on my own, as I've stated, but i still can't get anyone to respond to the the remaining issues, though I've repeatedly asked. I find this format for seeking help cumbersome and confusing...it's VERY old-school and I'm used to forums or other systems. I never know where to post or if anyone sees it. The last time i used google groups was something like ten years ago...All i do know is that i keep asking the same questions and having other things addressed, instead.
I do appreciate your attempts to help. I'll try to find some other source for the answers I need.

[Birthe C]

Hi Kelli,

I think we are all kinds of users here. I think we all experience frustration at times, I know I do.

Of course you want answers, but I think we do not really understand what is going on. Screenshots do not explain how and what you did. Remember also, that some of us do not use Windows.

Try to explain how you did, and where you put tiddlydesktop, where you have the tiddlywikies you want to use. How did you install the plugins and what plugins are you using. I do not remember what plugins that did not work for me in tiddlydesktop but there were a few. Remember also, that after having imported a plugin, you need to save and refresh the tiddlywiki for it to work.

Kelli I am sure your posts are being read and you would get an answer here if someone knew.

Birthe

[Mat]

Kelli, 

1) why do you feel you need TiddlyDesktop as opposed to only working with TiddlyWiki?

2) what are the names on those "thousands of files" you talk about?

<:-)