[TW5] Federation plugin and TWederation progress
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Jed Carty
Sep 19, 2016, 5:48:14 AM9/19/16
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My little robot has gone off into the world by itself, so I have time to spend on tiddlywiki development again. Currently I have done nothing of value for TWederation in the past month. So that update is easy.
I am going to put this here so hopefully people will actually read it: This is beta software, if you try to use it without reading the small amount of documentation than it probably won't work. If you try to make something using it and don't look at and understand the code first it probably won't work. If you modify nothing and try to make it do something other than the simple things I mention than it probably won't work. This is the version where I removed almost all the sarcasm.
I split the basic mechanism I use for inter-wiki communication into its own plugin here, if you want to use the mechanism that is what you need to look at and use.
There are two plugins there, Federation-core which is just the back-end part, if you put that in a wiki than other wikis can pull content from it. It doesn't have anything else.
Federation-tools are some very basic tools to make fetching content from another wiki that has the Federation-core plugin easier. There isn't really anything in the way of documentation so if you want to make something you will have to look at the code.
TWederation is built on top of what is in the Federation-core plugin, I am still working on refactoring everything in the twederation plugins to make future development easier. I hope to have the new versions up later today.
A very important note:
This is not the only way to make federated tiddlywikis! This is the way that I have worked out with a lot of help from other people (most notably Jeremy and Mat) that doesn't require anything other than a simple file server for the wikis on the network. I originally made this so that I could connect multiple wikis on my computer together and it expanded into something online. There are some important limits on what it can do and I don't think that this will ever be able to support large networks. If I manage to create a working community of 100 connected wikis I will be a bit surprised. Most of the problems when it comes to scale are due to performance issues. I think that for larger groups we can overcome some of these problems and retain a distributed structure by allowing multiple technologies. Once I have the basic TWederation system working well I am hoping to incorporate the work that Danielo has done with PouchDb (see NoteSelf) to allow for larger distributed networks.
I am going to put this here so hopefully people will actually read it: This is beta software, if you try to use it without reading the small amount of documentation than it probably won't work. If you try to make something using it and don't look at and understand the code first it probably won't work. If you modify nothing and try to make it do something other than the simple things I mention than it probably won't work. This is the version where I removed almost all the sarcasm.
I split the basic mechanism I use for inter-wiki communication into its own plugin here, if you want to use the mechanism that is what you need to look at and use.
There are two plugins there, Federation-core which is just the back-end part, if you put that in a wiki than other wikis can pull content from it. It doesn't have anything else.
Federation-tools are some very basic tools to make fetching content from another wiki that has the Federation-core plugin easier. There isn't really anything in the way of documentation so if you want to make something you will have to look at the code.
TWederation is built on top of what is in the Federation-core plugin, I am still working on refactoring everything in the twederation plugins to make future development easier. I hope to have the new versions up later today.
A very important note:
This is not the only way to make federated tiddlywikis! This is the way that I have worked out with a lot of help from other people (most notably Jeremy and Mat) that doesn't require anything other than a simple file server for the wikis on the network. I originally made this so that I could connect multiple wikis on my computer together and it expanded into something online. There are some important limits on what it can do and I don't think that this will ever be able to support large networks. If I manage to create a working community of 100 connected wikis I will be a bit surprised. Most of the problems when it comes to scale are due to performance issues. I think that for larger groups we can overcome some of these problems and retain a distributed structure by allowing multiple technologies. Once I have the basic TWederation system working well I am hoping to incorporate the work that Danielo has done with PouchDb (see NoteSelf) to allow for larger distributed networks.
Josiah
Sep 19, 2016, 7:18:24 AM9/19/16
to TiddlyWiki
Ciao Jed
I am glad you back on it. As I said before, it sounds like a very interesting development of TW.
I will hold off till a full release is ready to try. My only concern is still not quite understanding it. i mean I get the broad idea but not so much the actual process of how to use it and for what.
Best wishes
Josiah
I am glad you back on it. As I said before, it sounds like a very interesting development of TW.
I will hold off till a full release is ready to try. My only concern is still not quite understanding it. i mean I get the broad idea but not so much the actual process of how to use it and for what.
Best wishes
Josiah
Mat
Sep 19, 2016, 2:42:01 PM9/19/16
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Really happy to see things rolling!
I'm unfortunately very busy with other things for at least a week, probably longer. Hope to get back on track soon but will at least follow passively in the background meanwhile.
<:-)
Dmitry Sokolov
Dec 19, 2016, 12:22:47 AM12/19/16
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Jed,
I am in but new to the development. :)
My goal is to facilitate the development of versioning of individual multi-user tiddlers.
Would you help me and my student getting started? The student selected TW as his summer project. Thank you Sid!! :)
Thank you beforehand,
Dmitry
I am in but new to the development. :)
My goal is to facilitate the development of versioning of individual multi-user tiddlers.
Would you help me and my student getting started? The student selected TW as his summer project. Thank you Sid!! :)
Thank you beforehand,
Dmitry
Jed Carty
Dec 19, 2016, 4:11:49 AM12/19/16
to TiddlyWiki
That sounds like something interesting so yeah, I can try to help out. I can't guarantee that I will be available very often or that I will be good at responding, but I do want to get back to developing twederation and versioning will help a lot with that. I am in Paris so that is going to affect when I am around. Feel free to email me if you have specific questions, otherwise starting up a twederation page would be a way to talk to me :D
Dmitry Sokolov
Dec 19, 2016, 4:38:45 AM12/19/16
to tiddl...@googlegroups.com
Thank you Jed,
I will be in touch.
Cheers,
Dmitry
I will be in touch.
Cheers,
Dmitry
On 19/12/16 22:11, Jed Carty wrote:
That sounds like something interesting so yeah, I can try to help out. I can't guarantee that I will be available very often or that I will be good at responding, but I do want to get back to developing twederation and versioning will help a lot with that. I am in Paris so that is going to affect when I am around. Feel free to email me if you have specific questions, otherwise starting up a twederation page would be a way to talk to me :D
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Dmitry Sokolov
Dec 19, 2016, 4:49:00 AM12/19/16
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Jed, sorry, first question:
"starting up a twederation page would be a way to talk to me"
How would I do it?
Would this page be relevant to the task:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/113792773/Twederation%20and%20Federation%20-%20Getting%20Started
Should we start putting the tutorial together since I am new in the field?
The tutorial should be simple and crystal clear, just steps to follow.
Your thoughts?
Would this page be relevant to the task:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/113792773/Twederation%20and%20Federation%20-%20Getting%20Started
Should we start putting the tutorial together since I am new in the field?
The tutorial should be simple and crystal clear, just steps to follow.
Your thoughts?
Cheers,
Dmitry
On 19/12/16 22:11, Jed Carty wrote:
That sounds like something interesting so yeah, I can try to help out. I can't guarantee that I will be available very often or that I will be good at responding, but I do want to get back to developing twederation and versioning will help a lot with that. I am in Paris so that is going to affect when I am around. Feel free to email me if you have specific questions, otherwise starting up a twederation page would be a way to talk to me :D
Jed Carty
Dec 19, 2016, 5:47:52 AM12/19/16
to TiddlyWiki
A tutorial would be amazing!
And I didn't know that page existed. It could be useful.
The quick version is to go here: http://ooktech.com/jed/ExampleWikis/TWederation/ and follow the setup wizard.
The biggest thing that needs to be stressed more in the instructions is that you need to load the wiki where it is hosted after the second step. That is you enter the information for saving in the second step, then when you save the wiki it saves it to tiddlyspot or your own server, then you need to load the wiki on tiddlyspot or your server and continue the setup from there.
Let me know if you need any help. You can contact me using the google chat thing at inmy...@gmail.com if you need to.
Dmitry Sokolov
Dec 19, 2016, 6:15:06 AM12/19/16
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Jed,
I am not sure but the workspace I created, LikeInMind, is not accessible now.
Would you suggest a way of resetting the password, please?
It could be more efficient to communicate on Facebook Messenger if you don't mind.
My profile:
https://www.facebook.com/dmitry.sokolov.18062
I am working on building knowledge networks, currently on PBWorks.
PBWorks is not suitable for building P2P networks. TWederation looks very promising for the purpose.
I am exited, appointed a student for the summer project.
Your assistance would be very much appreciated.
Cheers,
Dmitry
I am not sure but the workspace I created, LikeInMind, is not accessible now.
Would you suggest a way of resetting the password, please?
It could be more efficient to communicate on Facebook Messenger if you don't mind.
My profile:
https://www.facebook.com/dmitry.sokolov.18062
I am working on building knowledge networks, currently on PBWorks.
PBWorks is not suitable for building P2P networks. TWederation looks very promising for the purpose.
I am exited, appointed a student for the summer project.
Your assistance would be very much appreciated.
Cheers,
Dmitry
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Josiah
Dec 19, 2016, 12:26:10 PM12/19/16
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Jed
Why don't you PIN the Twederation stuff in Google Groups? Its a big evolving project that needs attention.
Pinning would at least mean when people browse online its at the top of list & does not lose its history. See also my comments here: mentioning Twederation.
Best wishes
Josiah
Why don't you PIN the Twederation stuff in Google Groups? Its a big evolving project that needs attention.
Pinning would at least mean when people browse online its at the top of list & does not lose its history. See also my comments here: mentioning Twederation.
Best wishes
Josiah
Jed Carty
Dec 20, 2016, 7:25:30 AM12/20/16
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Dmitry,
I don't have anything to do with tiddlyspot and I have no idea how you would reset a password there. Maybe someone else here can help.
Josiah,
I don't think I have the authority to pin anything on the group. I will check. But for how little me and Mat have been able to work on Federation lately I am not sure it should be pinned until we either have more time or more help.
Jed Carty
Dec 20, 2016, 8:05:10 AM12/20/16
to TiddlyWiki
I made another post on twederation about the status and with some hopefully useful information about setting up your own. It is here: http://twederation.tiddlyspot.com/#How%20does%20the%20TWederation%20work%20anyway%3F%20-%20The%20TWederation%20(2016122014h0034)
There are some problems with safari where checkboxes don't appear in a table when that table is displayed in a tab, I am hopefully going to be pushing a new version of the plugin that uses a work around in a few hours.
Also, please stop just going through the wizard and putting in placeholder data. It doesn't accomplish anything other than cluttering up the list of wikis with bad entries.
Birthe C
Dec 20, 2016, 12:37:35 PM12/20/16
to TiddlyWiki
http://likeinmind.tiddlyspot.com shows TWclassic. No TW5 uploaded and saved. You have to remember your password, you are the only one who knows it. Password can be changed from http://likemind.tiddlyspot.com/controlpanel
Birthe
Birthe
Dmitry Sokolov
Dec 20, 2016, 1:33:12 PM12/20/16
to TiddlyWiki
Jed, it would be great to read "How does the TWederation work anyway" but I can't open the link.
Sorry for "cluttering up the list of wikis", I am not sure what were those form for and just done my usual learning by trying. It should be a way of cleaning it?
It would be also great to have the system fool-protected. :)
Cheers,
Dmitry
Sorry for "cluttering up the list of wikis", I am not sure what were those form for and just done my usual learning by trying. It should be a way of cleaning it?
It would be also great to have the system fool-protected. :)
Cheers,
Dmitry
Dmitry Sokolov
Dec 20, 2016, 1:55:43 PM12/20/16
to TiddlyWiki
Thank you Birthe,
I can't access the Control Panel without the password.
I researched the topic. It looks like I have to contact support every time:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/114014317/TiddlySpot%20Password%20Reset
It would be great to have this feature done, as an important part of multiuser platform.
Your thoughts?
Jed?
Cheers,
Dmitry
I can't access the Control Panel without the password.
I researched the topic. It looks like I have to contact support every time:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/114014317/TiddlySpot%20Password%20Reset
It would be great to have this feature done, as an important part of multiuser platform.
Your thoughts?
Jed?
Cheers,
Dmitry
Dmitry Sokolov
Dec 20, 2016, 1:58:02 PM12/20/16
to TiddlyWiki
BTW,
where can I see the list of features we are working on sorted by priorities, please?
Cheers,
Dmitry
where can I see the list of features we are working on sorted by priorities, please?
Cheers,
Dmitry
Egbert
Dec 20, 2016, 2:15:01 PM12/20/16
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LlllLl
Dmitry Sokolov
Dec 20, 2016, 4:40:40 PM12/20/16
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Jed, sorry, I can see now that the instructions have actually been
given:
"The biggest thing that needs to be stressed more in the instructions is that you need to load the wiki where it is hosted after the second step. That is you enter the information for saving in the second step, then when you save the wiki it saves it to tiddlyspot or your own server, then you need to load the wiki on tiddlyspot or your server and continue the setup from there."
Added to the TWederation Startup page:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/113792773/Twederation%20and%20Federation%20-%20Getting%20Started
Your comments would be appreciated.
We also may need other people new to TW testing and refining the PBWorks page above.
Sorry for keeping with PBWorks until convinced with TW security issues.
Cheers,
Dmitry
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/113792773/Twederation%20and%20Federation%20-%20Getting%20Started
Your comments would be appreciated.
We also may need other people new to TW testing and refining the PBWorks page above.
Sorry for keeping with PBWorks until convinced with TW security issues.
Cheers,
Dmitry
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Jed Carty
Dec 20, 2016, 5:37:53 PM12/20/16
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Dmitry,
At the moment our sorted list of priorities is: whatever I feel like working on when I have time to think about it. Or what Mat feels like doing when he has time.
Dmitry Sokolov
Jan 2, 2017, 12:29:22 AM1/2/17
to TiddlyWiki
Dear All,
I managed to install TWederation on TiddlySpot with the help of Birthe.
I am convinced now that all TiddlyWiki administration must be done on Chrome.
The TiddlySpot setup instructions are published here:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/114094198/TiddlySpot%20Setup
TWederation setup is here:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/113792773/Twederation%20and%20Federation%20-%20Getting%20Started
Now I can switch to the development TWederation to be reflected here:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/113977141/TWederation%20Development
according to the objectives listed here:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/114069763/TiddlyWiki%20Intents%20Map
The highest priority objectives:
- versioning
- multi-user co-working
- distributed storage, meaning that the most important tiddlers will be kept on the authors' PCs
What would be my next steps?
I would appreciate your suggestions with me getting started.
At the moment, I only know where the TWederation development hub is: TWederation on GitHub
Thank you,
I managed to install TWederation on TiddlySpot with the help of Birthe.
I am convinced now that all TiddlyWiki administration must be done on Chrome.
The TiddlySpot setup instructions are published here:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/114094198/TiddlySpot%20Setup
TWederation setup is here:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/113792773/Twederation%20and%20Federation%20-%20Getting%20Started
Now I can switch to the development TWederation to be reflected here:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/113977141/TWederation%20Development
according to the objectives listed here:
http://confocal-manawatu.pbworks.com/w/page/114069763/TiddlyWiki%20Intents%20Map
The highest priority objectives:
- versioning
- multi-user co-working
- distributed storage, meaning that the most important tiddlers will be kept on the authors' PCs
What would be my next steps?
I would appreciate your suggestions with me getting started.
At the moment, I only know where the TWederation development hub is: TWederation on GitHub
Thank you,
Dmitry
On Monday, 19 September 2016 21:48:14 UTC+12, Jed Carty wrote:
Dmitry Sokolov
Jan 2, 2017, 1:31:27 AM1/2/17
to TiddlyWiki
I started a new page on LikeInMind, Getting Started with TWederation Development.
Should it be discussed on a separate thread, or here would be OK? :)
Dear All,
I would appreciate your help with writing a kick-starter protocol for newcomers like myself.
Thank you beforehand,
Dmitry
Should it be discussed on a separate thread, or here would be OK? :)
Dear All,
I would appreciate your help with writing a kick-starter protocol for newcomers like myself.
Thank you beforehand,
Dmitry
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