Bob for Dummies?

[Dave]

Hi, for computer non-professionals and casual TW tinkerers, is there a best path to experiment with Bob?

I see these links a lot:

The plugin version is available here: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob

The BobEXE version is available here: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-BobEXE/releases/tag/1.0.7

and I also noticed a portable version...

Is there a recommended way for amateurs among these, or should we wait until "version 1.5" or something?

I'm just not familiar at all with "server language" (if that even makes sense), although I can use the linux terminal no probs...

[Jed Carty]

BobEXE is the portable version. Someone made a custom setup so that it show up as a portable apps menu thing, but that is unrelated to Bob.

If you want to use Bob and don't want to think about it, follow the link for BobEXE, find the executable for your system (windows osx or linux), download it to the folder where you want your wikis and run it.

Then it will be like a normal tiddlywiki. If you are on windows or osx it will open a terminal window that you can ignore. You can stop the server by closing the terminal window.

Edits are saved as soon as you make them, there is more in the first tiddler that you will see in the wiki that opens when you run the executable. There is documentation in the 'Bob Settings' tab in the control panel.

There is more you can do but that should be everything you need to use it.

[Dave]

Ok, cool - Thanks for making this!!! (sounds like TW node.js made simple :)

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Dear Jed & Bob

In the spirit of Dummies I wonder if we could get a one paragraph description of Bob and his adjunctive plugins.

I find myself struggling on Twitter to properly convey him fully. For instance: https://twitter.com/TiddlyTweeter/status/1051234749795196929 I don't think is yet good enough.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Dave]

Hi Jed, quick question regarding Bob on Android.

A) Is it possible via existing things like andtidwiki

B) as an alternative, would there ever be a possibility for the tid files to be saved instead as text files? The reason being is there is an (old) Android app (wikilin) that uses the same markup as tiddlywiki and it would be cool to be able to jump between tiddler files on Android just like you would in TW

I'd love to be able to have a single personal organization system with the power of both tiddlywiki and grep/sed command line scripting (I could probably do it sticking with ".tid", but if having them as text files was a trivial option to add that would make life easier.

thanks,
- Dave

[TonyM]

Dave,

You should be able to install bob on Android Via Termux or a similar Node Server available as an app. 

When using Bob (or any other node JS wiki) the Wikis are Folder wikis, such that each tiddler is saved as an individual file. Perhaps you can access those tid files.

I am sure Jed can be more thorough, but a quick answer for you.

Regards

Tony

[Jed Carty]

Dave,

I have no idea if Bob would play well with Anddidwiki. Bob is a plugin that works with the node version of tiddlywiki and I am  not sure how andtidwiki works, unless it is running a node server on the back-end it won't work.

.tid files are text files with a different extension, so it is in principle possible to use .txt instead but I am a bit hesitant to make an option to change the file extension because of the inevitable confusion that would cause. So if it is necessary than it is possible, but I suspect that there are ways around having to just work with the .txt extension.

And right now you can use gred/sed/awk and all the other command line scripting tools with .tid files. Bob has a mechanism for running command-line scripts from inside the wiki and Jeremy is working on a version that uses a different approach in the core. In my experience the file type extension makes no difference to command line scripting tools, and in this case gives a simple filter to ensure that you are only working with the wiki files, so I think I am missing something about your request to make it easier.

[Dave]

Thank you. I'll see if I can get Bob running on Android via termux, so nevermind about changing the extension.

My current notes system is based on text files ending in txt (every Todo item is a text file with tags inside them) but I think I can change things to work with the tid files. I'm going to try to merge the system with tiddlywiki now that tiddlers can be individual files...

Exciting times!

[Dave]

Hey Tony, is this the method you use to get Bob running on android?

Re: [tw5] Re: [TW5] Updates to the MultiUser plugin and the Single Executable version

Hi Jed,

For the record, although the armv7 executable doesn't work directly on Termux (on my Android 6.01 Fairphone), it does work like a charm on a Linux subsystem (Debian Stretch in my case).

Android device owners out there, if you are somewhat familiar with Linux, here are the main steps:

1. Install the Termux app on your Android device
2. Get the https://github.com/sp4rkie/debian-on-termux script and tweak it if you want (I only changed the localtime)
3. Follow the Readme instructions in order to execute the script from a directory that resides on your main sdcard (otherwise it can't be executed)
4. Wait about 30 minutes until the Debian installation completes
   
5. Execute the enter_deb script
6. apt install xdg-utils elinks # seems a bit overkill as the only reason is to allow Bob to open its console...
7. exit Linux and re-execute enter_deb with the -n option in order to log in as the normal Termux user
8. download tiddlyArmv7 from here https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-SingleExecutable/releases/ and execute \o/

The next executions only require to first enter the Linux system from Termux using enter_deb -n.

This is not exactly the snap aimed by these executables, and I guess that those who don't fear this procedure won't be afraid to install the normal MultiUser plugin on Termux instead. But I'm sure there are some advantages of using Bob that way, if only because it launches quicker than with the usual node tiddlywiki command.

Cheers,

Xavier.

-- Xavier Cazin

Xavier

May 12

or is there an easier method?

[Jed Carty]

I believe it is much simpler to just install node on the phone and run the normal node version of tiddlywiki with Bob as a plugin than to try and use the executable on a phone. You should be able to skip installing a separate OS on the phone.

[Dave]

Thank you, I'll try that

[Dave]

Wow, that was easier than I thought it would be!

Last question (I hope):

I see this file structure on my external sd card on the phone:

Android > Data > com.termux > files > Tiddlywiki5 > Wikis > BobWiki  > tiddlers > (all my tid files I want to sync)

I'm planning to sync this wiki with a Bob instance running and work and at home on my laptop (using syncthing)

Which folder(s) should I sync?  Does this setup allow more than one wiki on my phone? (if not I can live with that)

I'm guessing I should sync "Wikis" if I want multiple wikis, or "BobWiki" if I just want the one sync'd.  Is that correct?

[Jed Carty]

I am glad it wasn't very difficult to set up. And I think that you are correct about the folders to sync.

My only concern is that there is a small chance that if you are edit a tiddler on your phone and then edit the same tiddler on your laptop before the syncing has completed that it may cause trouble. I think that the chances of that happening are pretty low but it may come up. Remember to back up your data!! The simplest way I have found is to just gzip the entire wikis folder and save it every so often. I am working on some automated backup tools but I have no idea when I will get around to finishing them.

[Dave]

For anyone also trying to sync Bob wikis between PCs and Android, here are the steps that worked for me:

(background - Termux has 3 areas you can install stuff to, 2 of which are off limits to Syncthing.  This is how to mke it work in the shared area)

install termux on your phone

run termux-setup-storage (at the Termux terminal on your phone)

cd ~/storage/shared <-- that's the area you can install stuff to where other apps can access too

mkdir Termux <-- or whatever you want to call it

cd ./Termux

pkg install git

pkg install nodejs

git clone --depth=1 --branch v5.1.17 https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5.git

git clone --depth=1 https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-Bob.git TiddlyWiki5/plugins/OokTech/Bob

mkdir TiddlyWiki5/Wikis

cp -r TiddlyWiki5/plugins/OokTech/Bob/MultiUserWiki TiddlyWiki5/Wikis/BobWiki/

*** note - at this point I got an error that I thought would mean it didn't work, something about permissions not granted, but I just kept going  anyway and it worked ***

After that is finished, and to start up tiddlywiki later type:

cd TiddlyWiki5

node ./tiddlywiki.js Wikis/BobWiki --wsserver

then in the Termux standard out it'll print the address that you go to in the browser and you're away to the races!!

Of course after that you'll have to set up your folder shares in syncthing the way you normally would

My phone is rooted, but I think this is probably possible without root.

Hope this helps,

- Dave

P.S. I just am syncing the "tiddlers" folder so I only have the one TW I'm syncing.  If I get a phone with more memory, maybe I'll try syncing the folder that can hold multiple wikis

[Jed Carty]

Dave, and anyone else worried about memory usage:

Bob only has one node process running. The node process itself is where most of the memory is used and adding additional wikis require very little extra memory. Running 10 wikis using Bob uses much less memory and processing power than running 10 wikis normally.

If you can serve one wiki with Bob you can probably serve 10 without trouble. I have a  raspberry pi, which is lower power than most smartphones, and I have it running Bob serving 15 or 20 wikis with a lot of media without any trouble.

If you do run into memory problems it is almost certainly due to the size of the wiki (the number of tiddlers, the size of tiddlers, embedded media, etc.) but having the same amount of content split across multiple wikis would not cause any noticeable increase in memory usage. In fact having multiple wikis could be a lot better because only the wikis you are using are loaded.

[TonyM]

Jed,

I would also add opening other wikis on demand is more practical with bob since it allows multi access or multiuser with change syncronisation. This mean accidently working on another tab or browser with the same wiki is not a problem.

Also as I have pointed out before large or lots of wikis can be loaded if you have enough ram, if you increase your browsers allowed maximum ram a setting that can be found in at least ff and chrome.

Long live tiddlywiki and bob
Tony