To Github Or Not? -- That is a question.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Interesting discussion on GitHub in which ...

... @Jermolene commented ...

I think the apparent antipathy towards GitHub in the TiddlyWiki community is because only a small proportion of TiddlyWiki users have any familiarity with it. The difference between TiddlyWiki and the majority of open source projects is that our audience is not just other software developers: it's an end-user application and not a library. The barriers to using TiddlyWiki are much lower than those for adopting a conventional app, so the community is very broad, and broadly non-technical.

https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/3313

[Ste Wilson]

Whether it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous gits or...

It's a fair point. I have a git account but generally just bounce off it.

[Thomas Elmiger]

Yep.

Interestingly, I just got my own ghost-gitter – a ghost-writer/publisher for github. https://github.com/rimi publishes some of my plugins on github, just because I am too lazy/busy to learn it myself. Also github user sukima had to rebase a contribution I tried to make: https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/pull/2981 is waiting for approval since 8 months or so.

And the reason is, as Jeremy points out: I am not a (professional) software developer. I just use TiddlyWiki as an application development framework to create stuff that seems useful to me. In the single file version. And if there is a reason to believe my stuff could be useful for others, I use the Tinka plugin to produce a plugin. At the moment there is no space in my life to add more tools like node.js servers or github clients. I know there are beginner friendly videos by Mario on YouTube ... but I have other things to do.

So yes, although I am a technical guy with quite some knowledge of HTML5, CSS, web graphics and much interest in accessibility, I fight with github every time I try to commit something. One or two times a year, using the web interface. For me, at the moment, the answer is: not.

Cheers,

https://github.com/telmiger

Am Mittwoch, 30. Mai 2018 17:57:43 UTC+2 schrieb @TiddlyTweeter:

Interesting discussion on GitHub in which ...

... @Jermolene commented ...

The difference between TiddlyWiki and the majority of open source projects is that our audience is not just other software developers: it's an end-user application and not a library. The barriers to using TiddlyWiki are much lower than those for adopting a conventional app, so the community is very broad, and broadly non-technical. 

[Mark S.]

Thomas, you're much too modest. Your stuff is great!

We can form a "Waiting for PR" club. I've got one I started at the bequest of someone else that has waited 15 months and 3 release cycles.

The business and technical worlds go through fads, and it can be hard to keep up with them. For a long time, SourceForge was the happening thing. But they got themselves associated with malware and developers started leaving by the droves. Whenever I get something from SF, I try to scan it with 2 different virus scanners.

Git (and by extension Git-Hub) with it's "blessing" by Torvalds is now the go-to technology for all sorts of development. Lot's of books, software, and tutorials expect you to use it. So, I try to slog through and make sense of it all. I imagine, just about the time I really understand it, someone will come up with something "better".

Rebasing an entire project though ... that's pretty scary stuff still. This classic xkcd pretty much sums up my feelings: https://xkcd.com/1597/

-- Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Thomas

Read that with great interest. Its enlightening. That "PR" is still waiting? Its your "Alternative Cats", right? (I thought they were dead :-).

Josiah

Thomas Elmiger wrote:

... github user sukima had to rebase a contribution I tried to make: https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/pull/2981 is waiting for approval since 8 months or so.

[Thomas Elmiger]

Yeah, single color SVG cat icons look allready flat where you can see them. – As code in a forgotten PR they look like odd text and must be approaching Schrödinger’s cat for most people :–D

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

We can form a "Waiting for PR" club.

Am I right in thinking your main frustration with GitHub is DELAY? :-).

 

I've got one I started at the bequest of someone else that has waited 15 months and 3 release cycles.

 

... Git (and by extension Git-Hub) with it's "blessing" by Torvalds ...

... is now the go-to technology for all sorts of development. Lot's of books, software, and tutorials expect you to use it. So, I try to slog through and make sense of it all ...

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. & Telmiger

I'm terribly anthropological.

In the back of my mind the social scientist says: "There are just not enough developers to assist the PR end."

The question of "staffing" is so muted in these conversations I find it bizarre.

IS it really about systems, or numbers?

Just thoughts
Josiah

[Lost Admin]

Are you saying that I should put my exceedingly simple plugins for TiddlyWiki on Github?

[Mark S.]

TT wrote:

In the back of my mind the social scientist says: "There are just not enough developers to assist the PR end."

Not so. There's now 121 contributors to the project. There are many hands to make the work light. But everything has to be reviewed by Jeremy. That's the bottleneck.

It doesn't have to be like that -- GH let's you add collaborators who have the ability to write or administer the repository.

Unfortunately, with the free GH it's kind of an all-or-nothing situation. To give more fine-grained control over different aspects of the repo requires at least $25/month (for 5 team members, or at least that's how I interpret the pricing).

-- Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

Are you saying: "We have the active users BUT we don't yet have a way to let them get on with it?"

To give more fine-grained control over different aspects of the repo requires at least $25/month (for 5 team members, or at least that's how I interpret the pricing).

What is the cost for 121 participants per month?

Just asking.
J.

[Mark S.]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 8:16:12 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Ciao Mark S.

Are you saying: "We have the active users BUT we don't yet have a way to let them get on with it?"

Pretty much.

 

What is the cost for 121 participants per month?

Irrelevant. At least if I'm understanding (and since it's GitHub, I might not be -- even their pricing is complicated). The price is to allow collaborators who have fine-grained ADMIN control. You would not want 121 administrators.

People can still make contributions just like they do now. I think. You're paying to get "Team and user permissions".

-- Mark

 

[@TiddlyTweeter]

@TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Are you saying: "We have the active users BUT we don't yet have a way to let them get on with it?"

Mark S. wrote:

Pretty much.

 

What is the cost for 121 participants per month?

 

Irrelevant. At least if I'm understanding (and since it's GitHub, I might not be -- even their pricing is complicated). The price is to allow collaborators who have fine-grained ADMIN control. You would not want 121 administrators.

Got it. The pricing is for numbers of "Controllers" ... any number of users could work under them. Right? Cost is only for The Consigliere (TW in the Movies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM5bfWrkdRo).

[@TiddlyTweeter]

It could be an adventure...

[Mark S.]

There's a large community reference section with various how-tos. I would break this up and out of the plugin and into a couple user-friendly tutorials (e.g. "Copy this code into a tiddler to enable an edit button at the bottom of your toc macro."). Presenting it as a plugin would move it into the "code" section which is whole other barrel of fish in a nutshell.

-- Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

"... whole other barrel of fish in a nutshell."

Lol!

A sort of Aqua Squirrel-Tiddler?

[Mark S.]

Ut Oh ...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/01/microsoft--github-acquisition-talks-resume.html

Will we even want GH after MicroSoft takes over?

-- Mark