Quinoid

[Mark S.]

Experimental. Only tested on two devices. Read the documentation.

https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases/

Edit: Updated link.

[Watt]

Feedback on Quinoid;
Installed ok on Android 7 phone.
Complained about untrusted sources, went to settings, security, allowed install from untrusted sources (turned off after).

Installed.
Opens ok. Clicked 'find TW file' - used default android file selector, found a wiki file on internal storage.

Worked! Wiki opened, functioning.

Added new tiddler, saved, save notification confirmed.

Clicked Android back, returned me to 'find TW file', reopened same wiki - no save. Test tiddler not there.

Went to settings, Apps, permissions and gave Quinoid storage permission, which it hadn't asked for. No change, saves still not saved.

So on my phone everything worked on internal storage but didn't save changes.

(File names displayed in 'find TW file' need tidying up. Full path name currently displayed)

Tried it again on external storage, same process, same result.

When I go back to 'find TW file' and reopen the previously selected external file I get 'webpage can't be opened' net::ERR_UNKNOWN_URL_SCHEME

The sliding navigation from one wiki to the next works.

Tap and hold on a wiki list item removes it from the list.

Haven't got ES Explorer but might try it if that is the issue. It didn't work with Ghost Commander. Obviously shouldn't need a special file manager or external storage only but I'm sure you're working on that.

Hope this feedback helps. Any chance of collaboration with the other ongoing TW Android app?

[Riz]

Sorry, deleted old message in the thread. I just saw the instruction that the TW5 must be kept in external SD card.

Since I formatted the external SD card to be used as internal memory, I have no way to test this.

Sincerely,
Riz

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

More: FYI I have it now working with 3 wiki. All of which appear to save. I think its a good approach to be able to swipe between them.

There are some issues on lack of indicator of loading process but that is probably more information than you need right now.

The whole thing looks in a good direction IMO.

Best wishes

Josiah

On Sunday, 13 January 2019 22:13:21 UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:

Experimental. Only tested on two devices. Read the documentation.

https://marxsal.github.io/quinoid-releases/

[Watt]

Downloaded Total Commander and followed T.Tweeters suggestions.

Works and saves on internal storage using Total Commander as file manager for wiki selection.

Works but doesn't save on external storage, sd card, using Total Commander for selection. Could just be my phone, I usually need to use SAF mode to write to the sd card.

The wiki file path names in the wiki list are much tidier when selected using TC. Previously not user friendly with % everywhere.

So, seems to work on internal but have to use particular file managers. Great stuff, looking forward to updates.

[Mark S.]

Update on new address:

https://marxsal.github.io/quinoid/

Now has experimental file picker, and can pick more than 1 file at at time. Assuming it works ;-) If it's reporting weird file names, I'd be interested to know.

I realize from the prior posts that the big G's terminology confused me -- I had it backwards.

So, you probably can save on your internal drive, but may have problems saving on your external. There may be repeated issues with permissions, which may take awhile since my device doesn't have those problems (just other problems).

Thanks!

-- Mark

On Sunday, January 13, 2019 at 1:13:21 PM UTC-8, Mark S. wrote:

Experimental. Only tested on two devices. Read the documentation.

https://marxsal.github.io/quinoid-releases/

[Riz]

It works!!

By Lord, this is the happiest I have been in a week. This is ground-breaking development.

Android 6.0
Internal SD card

Saving- Success
Multiple File picking - Success
Swiping to switch between TW5 - Success.

Hats off, Mark. I am very eager to see where you are taking this.

[Watt]

Android 7 here.
Uninstalled old version.
Went to Android settings, security and allowed install from untrusted apps. (Turned off again after).
Installed.
It asked for access to files, photos and media (storage) - allowed.

Worked as described!
File picker works.
Picking multiple files works.
Internal storage wikis open and save.
External sd card wikis open but don't save. (Storage Access Framework needed to write to sd on my phone anyway).

Swiping works, unsaved changes are lost on swipe. Setting automatic saving on in control panel helped.

Long press remove file from wiki list worked.
File names look ok.

Import/export in wiki not working yet.

Looking good!

[Hubert]

Mark,

Android 7.0: everything works perfectly, saving included. This is a great development and probably a big milestone-in-the-making for TiddlyWiki. Thank you!

I know it's early and probably low priority, but would you consider adding pinch to zoom at some later stage?

Thanks again, brilliant work indeed!

-Hubert

[Ton Gerner]

Hi Mark,

Nice work you have done.

Old Nexus 5 with Android 6.0.1

Installes and works as decribed:

File picker: Selected 2 files from internal memory and could swipe between them.
Saving works.
Could not import.
Tried to export json, got save message, but could not find json file.
Back arrow to files works
Long pressing to remove entry works.

One thing: I get a button 'UNASSIGNED KEY' next to the 'FIND TW FILE' button.

Cheers,

Ton

[Mohammad]

Good job Mark,

Thank you!

Is it possible to have the Wiki title instead of long file path/file name?

 - Import and export not working

 - Split screen works (drag and drop e.g import not working)

 - Swiping between wikis works

 - loading tiddlywiki.com (downloaded full version) takes 2 seconds (seems file is large or app shall be improved for memory management)

 - suggestion: one one wiki is opened in app swipe does not work (between wiki and file list )

Device:

 Android 9.0 Pie

 4GB Ram, Snapdragon 625 2.0GHz octa-core 

Cheers

Mohammad

[Mohammad]

Mark
Is it possible to save to Google Drive?
Seems Android is happy to save to Drive.

Mohammad

[Mark S.]

Hi Mohammad, Ton, Watt, Hubert, Riz +

Thanks for your feedback.

I never imported/exported when using AndTidWiki and am not sure what that means. What exactly are people importing and exporting? I'm guessing this is something that's useful at Android 5 or 6+ ?

Just like your regular browser, the larger your file, the longer it will take to load, and the more likely Android is to reclaim memory. I encounter this all the time with FF browser pages. One trick worth trying is to clear device ram before starting a session. Other apps don't have the problem so much because they only pull a tiny bit of data and put it on the screen at a time. I suppose a completely different kind of app could just display one or two tid files at a time. But I'm sure people would miss all the other things you can do with TW. Something to think about.

@Mohammad -- not sure I understand your suggestion. Use the back button to leave your swipe session. Hmm ... maybe Android 5+ doesn't have a back button?

@Mohammad #2 -- what happens when you try to save to GDrive? Error? Anything?

The unassigned key for quick experiments while developing and saves me having to mess with arranging the screen every time.

Eventually I hope to update the list view to show titles (but only after visiting the webview), but the long file names are useful during development to see when there's wrong or duplicate pathing. My concept is to add possibly a check button, so when you go into swipe mode you don't have to use all your TW's at once.

I'm thinking that it may take a separate load button when people want to load a TW from an external SD drive. This is because Android seems to have a completely different mechanism for dealing with external than internal drives. Unfortunately, my current test device is at 4.4, when Android had taken away rights to write to the ext drive, but hadn't put  in the mechanism to override that behavior. Emulators are soooo slow. But now I'm just muttering.

@Hubert -- unless it turns out to break something, I hope to add this in the next "release".

Thanks everyone!

-- Mark

[Watt]

For me import/export would be the 'tools' > 'import' button for importing plugins, tids, json etc. As you would on a normal TW wiki.
Same with export - either from an individual tiddler or the tools menu.
Thanks!

[Ton Gerner]

Hi Mark,

I never imported/exported when using AndTidWiki and am not sure what that means. What exactly are people importing and exporting? I'm guessing this is something that's useful at Android 5 or 6+ ?

Just a practical case: when I tried BurningTree's Android app which can start with an empty TW (on your wish list as well?). The first thing I did was importing a mobile theme.

Cheers,

Ton

[Mohammad]

Hi Mark

Thank you for your reply. I cannot save to GDrive! Thats is because I cannot open the wiki file from GDrive.

I am experimenting with Quinoid and will return to you after that.

--Mohammad

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Right. Isn't the point with GD you edit on it? 

Mohammad wrote: 

... I cannot save to GDrive! Thats is because I cannot open the wiki file from GDrive.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S. & Ton

I tried Quinoid and aTW on Android 8.0.0 on IMPORT & found aTW can import & I could not get Quinoid to. Like Ton.

Import is useful for customising a wiki, especially for mobile friendly themes.

My concern here is its all getting a bit complex early. In giving feedback I'm not sure I'm usefully precise enough. What I mean is I'm very unclear what is due to Android version; TW version; something else?

Just tentative comments

Josiah

[Mark S.]

It's two approaches. With aTW, you need import because otherwise you can't update anything. With AndTidWiki etc, you can import/export from your desktop and save back to your device.

I can see adding import if people have already found it useful.

Re reports, at the moment, for saving I'm interested in:

* Were you saving to internal or external drive?

* What version of Android?

* Did you set the permissions in the application settings?

* Did you get request dialogs for permissions?

* Any error messages?

* For Google Drive, I will want to know if you set the file to be persistent/local (if memory serves, some files in GDrive are on the web). Unless a file has been pinned, I don't think anyone can alter it.

Thanks everyone!

-- Mark

[BurningTreeC]

It's two approaches. With aTW, you need import because otherwise you can't update anything. With AndTidWiki etc, you can import/export from your desktop and save back to your device.

Hi Mark, congratulations to this very nice app!

At this point I'd like to say that aTW doesn't use a different approach than Quinoid ;)

What you mean with your statement about import is not clear to me, wikies are just added to the list from wherever they are on the ext. storage and can then be edited.

Also the import/export from desktop to device is not different to what you describe

You maybe mean the first raw versions (TWApp ...), but aTW is more advanced, have a look if you're interested :) !

The aTW repository is open for everyone interested to contribute

 

all the best, BTC

[Watt]

Did you have a link for the aTW repository BTC? Collaboration might be a wonderful thing! Two heads (or more) are better than one etc!

[BurningTreeC]

Did you have a link for the aTW repository BTC? Collaboration might be a wonderful thing! Two heads (or more) are better than one etc!

Sure thing!

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/TiddlyWiki/hQ-D0x5Z77c/UgwSHHihEgAJ 

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

It's two approaches. With aTW, you need import because otherwise you can't update anything. With AndTidWiki etc, you can import/export from your desktop and save back to your device.

Thanks for the expanded overview. Its helpful in conceptualising what is going on.

FYI in my own use I'd not think to use desktop directly as a source. I more think about online/cloud.

I do think different usage issues are in play and that kinda fogs the issue slightly in being clear enough in my own thoughts about needs.

Thanks!

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

Re reports, at the moment, for saving I'm interested in:

* Were you saving to internal or external drive?

Footnote about this ... in my understanding initially Android allowed full access to save anywhere on the phone. Then that was withdrawn for security reasons. The it was re-allowed from version 6 provided you followed a specific procedure. (though some apps., like file browsers and cameras can have elevated privileges without that).

I think there is a terminology problem in that both the methods and descriptions have changed over Android versions.

Here is an example: You can slide in an "external" SD card (on Andriod 8.0.0) and it shows in settings as "Portable Storage" by default. But you "format" it either so it can remain removable or format it as "internal storage." In the latter case is gets more integrated into the system and is easier to save to but can no longer be plugged into another system.

In my specific setup I have a "plugin SD" that is not formatted for "internal storage." The phone has enough storage I don't need to convert it. In Quinoid I can load TW from the Plugin Storage but not save to it.

My explanation leaves out many subtleties (performance; methods) but I think gets over there are user configuration issues in play for Quinoid of Android setup that are not that transparent.

FWIW, I found this article useful to read: https://www.howtogeek.com/242937/how-to-set-up-a-new-sd-card-in-android-for-extra-storage/

Best wishes

Josiah

[Jeremy Ruston]

Just a note for Riz and anyone else who might be using ES File Explorer: I happened to see on Twitter a note about a particularly nasty security vulnerability in the app:

https://twitter.com/fs0c131y/status/1085460755313508352

The vulnerability appears to be that if you opened the app at least once then anyone on the same local network can exfiltrate a file from you.

Best wishes

Jeremy.

--

Jeremy Ruston

jer...@jermolene.com

https://jermolene.com

On 14 Jan 2019, at 12:37, Riz <madapeed...@gmail.com> wrote:

Android 6.0

- Installation Successful

- File picking Success. I have ES Explorer, although the file picker uses the default file manager.

- Opening TW5 Success.


- Saving is shown to be success, with usual TW5 notification shown. However, changes are not really saved. Opening TW5 separately in browser after closing app showed that changes are not saved

- Reopening the app after completely closing it showed the same error as Watt


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[Riz]

@Jeremy,

Thanks for the pointer. Ditching it.

sincerely,
Riz

[Mark S.]

I believe Android made tweaks to the access system at 4.4 (causing thousands of apps to stop functioning), 5, and 6. There are a lot of subtleties. Like *apps* should be able to use the external drive for private activities, even if the card hasn't been formatted for private use. But your other apps won't be able to access that space, except through your own application.

When they say they're concerned about "security", what they're really trying to secure is *you*. Forget about hackers, what they really want is to secure the system for DRM. When everything is served through custom apps, it becomes much harder to offload or bootleg content. The upshot is that they also want to wean us off the idea of "files". Internally, everything needs to be handled through content "providers", rather than simple files. In the future, there will be no more files, only services from which videos can be played, music can be listened, documents can be written, or books read. My understanding, such as it is, is that something similar is happening with the Apple devices, so if you want to plug  in an external device, you also have to run an app that can serve specific content (videos, images, music) from those devices.

-- Mark

[TonyM]

Jeremy et al,

This is a security concern but please be aware the app has features to be open over the LAN by design. Eg FTP to SD card.

Regards

Tony

[TonyM]

Mark,

I only Just got to play with your "baby" it is working well, I was resisting the swipe and multiple wikis thing until I tried it, but it is very good.

• I installed the App from the SD Card, 
  
• Cant export tid/or json (just responced saved wiki)
  
• Cant import - no dialogue appears
  

I can browse to parent then SD Card but I do not see my own folder on the SD Card, and see all the internal folders?

I am using an LG V20 Android 8.0.0 

Looks Great! Thanks heaps Mark

Tony

[Mark S.]

Latest release here at a new place:

https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases/tag/v0.0.03alpha

Experimental support for system files including GDrive.

The two buttons are now called Local Explorer and System Explorer

As Android ratchets up security, accessing files as ordinary files becomes more difficult. Instead, they provide a different mechanism that works through their own "file" explorer. The 2nd button launches this feature. If you have GDrive files pinned (they have to be pinned) then you should be able to load them up (behind the scenes, Quinoid is making them into temp files that can be edited).

Pinch/zoom added. If you swipe through the pages and then go back to the list, the list will have been (temporarily) updated with the TW title. The titles don't persist yet, but may be helpful for understanding which file you are launching.

Be careful! Don't depend on GDrive to do backing up for you! Treat as alpha.

I don't know yet which Android versions will support the system explorer. I *think* it's version 6 through 9, but it takes time to test.

Have fun,

-- Mark

[Mohammad]

Hi Mark,

 Many thanks for your excellent app.

Work with TW on Gdrive like a charm.

My Experiment:

System: Android 9

              4 GB RAM, Quad Core Snapdragon

1. Uninstall previous version
2. install the new alpha release
3. NO PERMISSION granted
4. Tap on system explorer
5. From left menu select Drive
6. In Drive navigate and select my index.html stored in my Gogle Drive under TW folder
7. The file is added to wiki list in Quinoid, tap and open it
8. Create a new tiddler and put text and save it

Finding: Quinoid without requiring any grants opens my wikis stored on Google Drive for read/write.

See below the steps using screenshots

[Mohammad]

Everybody likes Quinoid

Please star it at

 https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases/tag/v0.0.03alpha

It is good to give a star to these projects, so developer knows how many people interested in and will be encouraged to keep it maintained!

Also this will bring its rank up in the list.

Cheers

Mohammad

[Watt]

Hi Mark, looking forward to trying it out but I'm not sure what to download. It's probably staring me in the face but I can't see an apk there.

[Mohammad]

Watt
Download the app

quinoid-190120a-v0-0-0.apk
1.97 MB
See the link by Mark

[Stefan Pfister]

Link is dead: 404 error.

Am Mo., 21. Jan. 2019, 11:20 hat Mohammad <mohammad...@gmail.com> geschrieben:

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[Watt]

Found it, thanks.
Steffan, if you're still looking it is here;
https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases/tag/v0.0.03alpha

[Watt]

Click on Assets.

[Stefan Pfister]

really cool app, thanks i got it. ;)

Am Mo., 21. Jan. 2019, 11:51 hat Watt <charlar...@gmail.com> geschrieben:

Found it, thanks.
Steffan, if you're still looking it is here;
https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases/tag/v0.0.03alpha

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[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

Latest release here at a new place:

https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases/tag/v0.0.03alpha

Upside: My install experience on Android 8.0.0 was much like Mohammad's. Easy install with no "Permissions" complications.

Downside: The "addresses" shown in my instance are no longer human readable ... I'm assuming that you edit now in a different place than origin? Anyway, wondering IF the name of the TW could be displayed upfront?

Many thanks for brilliant work!

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S.

I just noticed you can "install" a single JPG file in it ... was that intended?

UPDATE: That was enabled through the LOCAL EXPLORER. And you can get it to accept several image and movie formats :-).

Josiah

[Mark S.]

So I've accidentally created a photo gallery? I imagine that will have to be eventually fixed. I can't think of a use-case for it, can you? Other than extreme mission creep.

Internally, you are probably creating a host of javascript errors. Whether that's a problem or not, hard to say.

BTW, you should be able to see more informative titles after you have swiped through your existing pages and then gone back out to the list. Once I have code to persist that data, the titles should be user-readable whenever you return. The updates don't occur immediately because the code can't determine the title until it has loaded the page and run the page's code, which is an expensive process.

-- Mark

[Mark S.]

Just a heads-up. If you're using Quinoid for GDrive, Quinoid will think it's "boss" as long as it is loaded. That is, you make changes on your desktop, and then go back to your still-running Quinoid and make more changes from there, Q. will very likely write over the changes you made on your desktop. The solution, at the moment, is to be sure to exit completely out of Q. before resuming to edit on some other GDrive implementation.

Have fun!

-- Mark

[Mohammad]

Good point Mark.

I see I have to completely exit from Quinoid and re-enter again.

Cheers

Mohammad

[Mark S.]

Another release. This will erase your existing list of files (because I changed the internal persistent storage model), but allow persistence in titles. So once you have visited and browsed a page and gone back to the list, the list should show your TW file. And the name should be there the next time your restart Quinoid.

As always, this is a work-in-progress. Be careful. Back up your files before using.

This version adds persistence for titles (title information only appears the first time after you have browsed the page). The bad news is that you will lose your existing file list and have to recreate it.

https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases/tag/v0.0.4alpha

[Dave]

 This is probably a really dumb question, but I just saw that Quinoid can work with google drive TWs, and I just googled "Google Drive Nodejs" and there does seem to be some node APIs for google drive...

What's the possibility that you can set up a Bob instance on Google Drive and access it through Quinoid (and also from a desktop browser)?  I know Bob's not your thing, but thought you might know either way (seeing as you're Tiddly Smart ;)

[Watt]

Hi Mark
Installed ok.
Selected and loaded a wiki from internal storage ok.
Opened wiki, saved a tiddler ok.
Went back to file list and file name's still off - displays as 'mywiki: fullfilepath...mywiki.html' The ... are in the displayed name, indicating truncation of long filepath name.

Exited Quinoid, closed completely, re-opened - nothing in filelist. Files not persistent.

Another discovery - if I add a wiki to Quinoid, open it, make a new tid with an <a href> link in it to another wiki on the phone (that isn't loaded in Quinoid) the link works and opens the unlisted wiki. Its name replaces the originally listed wiki in the Quinoid list. If I then save a tiddler in this replacement wiki from within Quinoid it is saved, but with the original wiki filename. i.e it overwrites the original wiki but keeps its filename. (The original listed wiki was on an external sd card).

Obviously I'm trying to break it, but it's probably not how you want it. BTC's aTW did something similar in an early version but I don't know if he sorted it out.

Anyway, thanks for the hard work, hope this makes sense.

[TonyM]

Mark

Some experiences

• The System Explorer is working for me, I can now open files from all over nice work.
• Opening multiple files/wikis from the selection works (nice)
• Opening a json file allows you to browse it 
  
• I tested opening *.tw files (as mentioned elsewhere) they open as raw text and can be swiped to
• I tested opening *.txt files they open as raw text and are available to read, select and copy, when swiping in Quinoid, I quite like this. Text content can be viewed then selected and pasted into active Wiki in Quinoid.
• If I use Left triangle on phone to exit, the app remains in memory and reopens with the list of wikis previously selected, If in the display of active applications I swipe right to unload the app, when I return the list of previous wikis is lost.
• Selecting import does nothing.
• Geolocation - I have a json file with geolocation Attached, I returned to desktop to do this. Throws an Internal Javascript error on Quinoid when pressing the get location button.
• Selecting Export  saves the wiki but nothing else

I have used the material theme on TW5 5.1.14 and 5.1.19 and it works nicely, however I believe some more design work is needed to make it easier for mobile use. The value of a lot of things in the side bar diminishes when operating on mobile.

Feature request?

Have a naming standard for a tiddlywiki such as quinoid.html such that if it exists in Documents, on first launch of Quinoid this is opened and displayed so that a form of index.html is available. Other listed wikis can then be accessed by swipe, Using back will then return to the list of other wikis. 

Summary: Looking really good and a long way already, and is already practical to use as is (Except for loss of wiki list) 

Thanks a lot for this

Tony

[Mohammad]

Hi Mark,

 Everything works as expected

 

1. Open local wiki: OK
2. Open Google drive wiki: OK
3. Show wiki names on return: OK
4. File list on completely exit from Quinoid and reopen again: FAILS

So, on exit-open no file list is available

Android 9

-Mohammad

[Mark S.]

Hi everyone,

Looks like the persistence wasn't persistent enough. I've updated the assets with a new apk which seemed to work during emulator testing. It should also prevent roaming away from the TW file, but I didn't get to test that.  The system file picker options may be reduced, only showing HTML/HTM.

@Tony Not sure what to do with the geolocation file? What does it do?

The problem with inventing mime types is that Android doesn't know anything about them. Out of the box, the System explorer/picker doesn't want to obey suggested new mime types. It will take some time to see if there's any work around.

Thanks for your feedback everyone!

-- Mark

[TonyM]

Mark,

I will review the update soon. 

The Geolocation file if installed in noteself as an example, will allow a button press to populate the tiddler fields with GPS/Geolocation data. Basically it obtains the location from the phone (as it does my desktop). Perhaps I need to grant Quinoid these rights.

I liked the previous ability to open text files.

No need to create new mime types as I understand it, just allow Quinoid to treat .tw files as html, in fact FireFox already does so, presumably as it opens the file, and it reads the mime type from the file?

Best effort only for my suggestions, we can always look at it in the future.

Thanks mark

[TonyM]

New Version test

After installing the app and opening two wikis, I can return to the file list and the wikis.

After closing the App (Current apps swipe right) , and Returning the names persist, but clicking on them generates.

Web page not available

The Web page at file://null could not be loaded because:

net:ERR_FIELD_NOT_FOUND

I can no longer browse to the first two wikis in the list without the above message, or open them again , but I can add more and they open.

I restarted my phone, now all 4 in the list open with the above error. ie The app is sensitive to closure and cant reopen the listed wikis.

As before I can open my .tw file, but only see it as text. Just under the head it says 

<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html;charset=utf=8" />

this is still exposed the the above problem.

I hate to bring bad news, but hope it helps.

Android 8.0.0

Regards

Tony

On Wednesday, January 23, 2019 at 4:03:19 PM UTC+11, Mark S. wrote:

[Watt]

Same as Tony on quinoid-190122b-v0-0-4b.apk

[Mark S.]

Thanks Watt, Tony

I had that problem during testing but thought I had it fixed. It might be a day or two before I work it out.

@Tony, when you say that Firefox can read .tw files, are you talking about FireFox ON Android?

Thanks!

-- Mark

[Mark S.]

I'm wondering if I somehow just submitted an old release?

I've submitted another one, dated today 19-01-23. It works fine on my emulator and on a Kindle Lollipop (5.0)

Thanks!

Mark

[Mohammad]

Hi Mark,

 The new release v0-v-4b works great!

File list is persistent even after full exit and re open the Quinoid!

Wiki name + full path is seen when I add a new wiki
Works with Google Drive 

I think it is better to only keep the System Explorer and remove the Local explorer!

Android 9

--Mohammad

[Watt]

quinoid-190123a.apk seems to still have the same problem here on Android 7, sorry.

Loaded wiki ok from local storage.
Opened ok.
Went back to list - filename still fullpathname.

Exited quinoid.
Reopened.
File still in list but on opening got "The web page at file:///null could not be loaded because:

net::ERR_FILE_NOT_FOUND"

[TonyM]

Mark,

Not on FireFox for android (yey) only desktop. I think FF on android will need additioanl permissions to open from storage.

UPDATE on New Version 

quinoid-190122b-v0-0-4b.apk

Android 8.0.0

The Titles Persist after restart or application close however one is throwing the previous error and the other not.

I discovered that long press removes the item from the list, and reopening the problem wiki then works. No need to delete and reinstall the package to remove such zombie wiki links.

Getting better all the time.

Tony

[TonyM]

Update on FireFox tw Files, I have it working

• I Gave firefox permissions to the SDcard, Not sure if this was necessary
  
• In the address bar file:////sdcard go changes to file:////storage/emulated/0/
  
• From here I can open in firefox a wikiname.tw file and it is working
  
• However of course save is only a download

However, I just discovered I can export and import tiddlers in json format. So a saving mechanism of sorts is available. 

Regards

Tony

[Mark S.]

Hi Watt,

When you say "Local Storage", do you mean you used the "Local Explorer" button? If so, please try again with "System Explorer". I'm not sure what the fate of the "Local Explorer" is at this time.

So far my test on an emulated Nexus 5X, Android 7, seems to work OK, though it did give some false stops/starts.

Thanks!

-- Mark

[Watt]

I meant internal storage, but I was using the local explorer button.

Tried 'system explorer' and everything works. Load, open, filelist, swipe, save, close, reopen, files still there working. All good.

However... one anomaly on my phone is that 'system explorer' opens up a file chooser with only a subset of navigation options; recent, downloads, sdcard, drive, termux. I'm struggling to find a way to navigate to directories that it doesn't list.

In addition if I look in 'downloads' via the 'system explorer' file chooser, not all the wikis that are in my Downloads directory are displayed. Only those that were literally downloaded. Wikis that weren't downloaded but file transferred into the download directory don't seem to show up.

Hope that makes sense, it might just be an idiosyncracy of my phone setup and nothing to do with quinoid. I'll keep playing.

The short version is that 'local explorer' gives me wider access to files than 'system explorer'.

Great work!

[Mark S.]

Installed a new apk: quinoid-190125a.apk

https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases/tag/v0.0.4alpha

This one should allow Local Explorer to work with files that have been previously selected with LE even after restart. Or at least it worked on the emulator for Android 7.

Thanks!

[Ton Gerner]

Hi Mark,

Just installed quinoid-190125a.apk on my Old Nexus 5, Android 6.01 and can confirm that previously selected files stay after restart of Quinoid.

It becomes better and beteer,

Thanks a lot.

Cheers,

Ton

[Watt]

quinoid-190125a.apk

Local explorer;
Works. Wikis open, save and persist.
Links out no longer open 'unlisted' wikis.
Allows selection and loading of non-tw.html file formats; e.g. txt, org, mp3 (podcast plays in background while swiping), png, basic html (gutenberg book, toc worked) all of which are useful for me, please don't switch them off. They persist too.
Successfully opened a wiki on sdcard but read only, as expected, saves didn't persist.

System explorer;
Loads a wiki from sdcard but doesn't save changes. Not a problem for me, I prefer the local explorer.

Thanks for your hard work!

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Android 8.0.0.

Install easy. Works & persists between sessions as advertised.

Other comments ...

-- I'm in two minds about it being able to load things other than html. Mainly because of potential non-plussed reactions from beginners.

-- I did selection through LOCAL EXPLORER. It suits my style of believing in directories , even if they are a fiction.

-- I had some issues on wiki layout. But that is not a Quinoid issue. But is kinda in the mix practically. Later.

Thank you!

[TonyM]

Josiah,

Loading other files need not be a key requirement, please do not exclude it it because you see no value. I can see two advantages being able to open source text etc... select copy cut and paste into my Android wiki as a valuable feature.

Also I have discovered that it is already possible to enable .tw files on most browser platforms rather than html files allowing some differentiation, such as being able to specify which browser to open tiddlywiki files in, even if it is not the default browser. 

.tw files is an initiative I am working on for the use of TiddlyWiki as smart documents, rather than the less distinctive html Thus I am asking owners of the various tools and platforms, including mark to allow this.

If there is a reason to reduce what files can be browsed for readable txt files people can see readme.txt files etc that may accompany so tiddlywiki files.

Allowing the browsing and selection of tw files and treating them as HTML has absolutely no impact unless someone has a .tw file on there device so there is not reason not to permit this.

Finally, This smart document initiative of mine is something I am requesting support for as a member of the community. I would be happy to discuss it in its own thread, one I may start today. I assure you I am a long way to getting the proof of concept going, and I need very little from the community and I hope to give back a lot.

Regards

Tony 

[@TiddlyTweeter]

TonyM wrote

Loading other files need not be a key requirement, please do not exclude it it because you see no value. I can see two advantages being able to open source text etc... select copy cut and paste into my Android wiki as a valuable feature.

Ciao. I do see some value in it actually. But, overall, Its a "faut" accomplishment because they won't function always that well or look that good. And, actually, I'd rather use tools dedicated to the non TW types. In other words: it could be confusing.

That said, I'm not actually fully sure. I'd, at end, defer to Mark. S. on this.

I was just giving an opinion to him because I think its helpful to do so.

Best wishes

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S.

I think it might be worth announcing this work on Twitter if you have an account there?

See this for instance ... https://twitter.com/ELJ1_/status/1088995541973979137

Best wishes

@TiddlyTweeter

On Friday, 25 January 2019 16:44:13 UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

Actually using it to good effect now. Doing stuff.

Am I right you can't at the moment launch to external websites from it?

Josiah

On Friday, 25 January 2019 16:44:13 UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:

[Mark S.]

I turned off that feature because it meant that you were no longer on the original page. And there would be no way to navigate back to the original page. Probably with a lot of work I could figure out how to navigate back or (more likely) how to make link-clicks launch your regular browser. Hmm, would the latter be satisfactory?

I had this worrisome thought that if someone were to click away from their original page, to another TW page, and then click on "save" ... it might overwrite their original page (since it writes back to the stored address). There was also a concern that internal features to grab the favicon or title from a page might crash the viewer.

It seems like there is a surprising interest in loading up things other than actual TW pages. Maybe there's a pent-up demand for a universal viewer that doesn't force you to use 6 different apps to do your 6 favorite activities? But, don't the existing web browsers  already provide these features?

Thanks!

-- Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I can live with it.

My use case is on phone  to do simple things like look up words on the net ...

Its useful sitting in the kitchen discussing stuff with friends. 

I want to emphasise I do not need Quinoid to do that. At the same time I'd love to be able to have that simple  search TW active in it. I'd rather not have to have it in a browser. Too many places.

TBH, I'm not sure I'd need to navigate back. If it just spawned its not unlike other apps that do that.

Just a comment

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

... It seems like there is a surprising interest in loading up things other than actual TW pages. Maybe there's a pent-up demand for a universal viewer that doesn't force you to use 6 different apps to do your 6 favorite activities? But, don't the existing web browsers  already provide these features?

Myself I think getting into supporting loads of formats is a bad idea--unless there are 7 of you.

My interest is simply to be able to outreach from a TW to the web.

Just MO

Josiah

 

[TonyM]

Mark

It seems like there is a surprising interest in loading up things other than actual TW pages. Maybe there's a pent-up demand for a universal viewer that doesn't force you to use 6 different apps to do your 6 favorite activities? But, don't the existing web browsers  already provide these features?

This is undoubtedly true, I for one get sick of the fact my Android home screen icon to open google groups  always opens a new tab in Chrome, I have over 99 tabs in my mobile chrome now. Why can't I open and reopen a single tab?

As Josiah says it is not your responsibility, but by exploring this idea you may be able to make a killer app. From my perspective however there are perhaps already unintended features in Quinoid that we can make use of with little or no impact on you, the app and other users.

To browse to and open a text file in a Quinoid window, I could read and snip content from any text file source into a wiki on my phone allowing me to do something more easily than before which I could only do effectively with multiple apps or a desktop. This single app view, just a swipe between the source and my wiki, reduces cognitive load and app switching.

My suggestion to treat .tw files the same as html files is similar, at the moment they open as a text file. The advantage is its an extension we can "own". In future clicking or downloading a tw file would allow it to be clicked and open in Quinoid, where you can not do this with html files as they are html and we expect a browser to handle them. But if no one knows or uses this file extension it is invisible to them, ie not real additional complexity.

I agree with Josiahs approach here not to over complicate but I disagree with his over zealous application of it when it comes to some really simple to incorporate, even incidental features. As always when using a universal client, such as a browser, as built into Quinoid the advantage is it comes with extended features.

If there was a feature that may be difficult to add to Quinoid that would be great it would be to print a tiddler as on the desktop open in new window, and print to pdf on the phone, such this can be saved and emailed. I can imagine custom wikis with a proposal, an invitation, a report, a letter, a prospectus and job application etc... with which you can provide some details and email the custom pdf from your phone.

I just managed to share from chrome to printer and select pdf printer (Perhaps because of Foxit app on my phone), Attached to demonstrate.

Anyway, I am about to update the most recent release an play.

Regards

Tony

[TonyM]

,ark,

Playing with quinoid-190125a.apk

Android 8.0.0 

Looks great

Issues uncovered but you may know about.

• A Link [[https://psat.com.au]] does not work, I expected it to open the default browser (nothing happens)
  
• Can't install from Plugin Library, all listed but nothing happens clicking install
• The Wiki list is still not so attractive
• Holding an item in the wiki list will delete on long press, no warning, no advice

Never the less I am impressed.

Tony

On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 8:13:21 AM UTC+11, Mark S. wrote:

Experimental. Only tested on two devices. Read the documentation.

https://marxsal.github.io/quinoid-releases/

[Mark S.]

Hi Tony,

1. A Link [[https://psat.com.au]] does not work, I expected it to open the default browser (nothing happens)

I think I'll eventually be able to launch to a browser.

2. Can't install from Plugin Library, all listed but nothing happens clicking install

For both 1. and 2., were these features in AndTidWiki? I'll need to add internet permission to the application and see what happens. Hopefully this isn't as complicated as file permissions.

The main thing is that Google/Android is ratcheting up the requirements for permissions.

3. The Wiki list is still not so attractive

Possibly something like below. Simplified title. Icons and a checkbox to allow browsing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ...

4. Holding an item in the wiki list will delete on long press, no warning, no advice

Possibly to be replaced with a dialog. If possible, a dialog to set the display title, browse status, and "remove" option. In the mean time,  depending on documentation in the Readme file ;-)

Thanks!

-- Mark

[Watt]

There are 4 things I do with a wiki;
1. Get stuff into it
2. Store it
3. Save it.
4. Get stuff out of it

Accepting 'shares' from other apps ('intents'?) would be my ideal for getting stuff in. But until 'shares' are possible, copy and paste is the only way, which is painful on a phone. Being able to load other filetypes in Quinoid next to a wiki helps me copy stuff in.
Import would also be useful ultimately - it's part of the TW functionality so a pity to hobble it.

2 and 3 work! (Backups are the users responsibility - which is ok. Maybe it needs emphasising eventually).

4. Doesn't work yet. Although I can open the wiki in a browser to export. Like import, it is a big part of TW functionality and would be good to have in Quinoid eventually but there are non-quinoid ways of doing it.

Safe 'links out' to open a browser would be amazing.

Maybe Quinoid and aTW are like browsers that happen to facilitate loading and saving TW wikis.
That alone is a great achievement and it's a measure of how much progress has been made that we're starting to think about all these 'what ifs?'. Thanks again for all the hard work, it really is appreciated.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I must say this looks better on names.

Josiah.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I'd just like to comment my two pence,

I'm not actually that averse to Quinoid showing other file types. Despite my previous comments

.

I just think allowing it ad-lib could be confusing to new users.

I think my point was more about what is important.

I'd say that being able to launch an external web link was.

WHY? Because a normal user will expect it.

Just thoughts

Josiah

[TonyM]

Josiah,

Thanks for your clarification.

I do not want to labor my point, but if I may.

My point is with only html active I could open non tiddlywiki html but with txt an .tw extensions I would only have the opportunity if such files exist, and to most they are not tiddlywikis so they will never know. In fact I doubt anyone would know about a .tw file unless they put it there themself, in which case they will want it to work.

Let us pick an extension, any extension, but tw is perhaps the best.

With a nominated extension we can allow the app to be oppened by clicking in the file, not only by opening it from the app. At least on desktops, i have this working. I just want it to carry over to mobile. We cant do this with html because the default browser needs to own html, perhaps even so quinoid can open external links.

On mobiles we could download, and open from where it lands. No need searching from inside the app.

To me this is an essential design feature, and appears fundimental as it aready works on some platforms by accident.

Futher on great design ideas, i saw an online app that is secure but needs no password. Just provide the user id and it sends you an email with the secure link to logon, Especialy good for occasional login accounts.

Perhaps we can get this in tiddly wiki servers?

Tony

[Mark S.]

Quinoid v0.0.5alpha

https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases/tag/v0.0.5alpha

https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases/download/v0.0.5alpha/quinoid-190128a.apk

New list view. Icon is placeholder for future updates. Long press brings up dialog where you can type display name (this does not affect internal TW name), mark an item for browsing, or delete an item from the list. Items marked for browsing will display when you launch the swiper/viewer.

Only tested lightly on one emulator instance (Android 7), so be careful out there.

-- Mark

[@TiddlyTweeter]

TonyM wrote:

I do not want to labor my point, but if I may.

I'm perfectly happy to let Mark S. decide.

My point was only to emphasise that external activated linking would be good. 

And that open access to multiple file formats could be confusing. 

Now I can't say more already.

Josiah

[Mohammad]

Thanks Mark,

 - Work great both with G drive and local wikis.

 - I prefer to use only system explorer, so I denied permission to access ...

 - Wiki site title and icon work for me

 - Installation take more time than usual

 - File list is persistent

Android 9.0

Mohammad

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Thank you.

The titling is clean now.

I was thinking of the uncomplicated time of Corleone ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7KDJy9jO1Q

Grazie

Josiah

[Watt]

Works very well here on Android 7. Thanks very much!

[Mohammad]

This may be off-topic for time being

• Use a simple document icon for file in the file list
• The cat icon can be a cute one :-)

--Mohammad

On Monday, January 28, 2019 at 9:33:25 PM UTC+3:30, Mark S. wrote:

[Mark S.]

If anyone is interested in testing, I've added quinoid-190129a.apk to the current v0.0.5alpha release.

It  may, or may not, add the ability to import (but not export) files.

Thanks for your feedback!

https://github.com/Marxsal/Quinoid01/releases/tag/v0.0.5alpha

-- Mark

[TonyM]

Mark,

I am very Interested. Just installed on my LG V20 android 8.0.0

Looking very good, once again ahead in leaps and bounds.

Cute new Icon on Home screen and in app.

• When Installing it requests no permissions
  
• When Starting it asks for file access
  
• Local Files Select wiki, title not known, opened quickly
• Return to Quinoid "file manager" - Title not perfect but good enough "~PSaT Material" was the wiki title.
• Perhaps if title creation simply ignored "~"
• System Explorer, select wiki 
• Attempt to import gives File Chooser "Capture Image" and "Files", 
• Capture Image, take photo, imported image (may need rotation)
• Files, Select json no result after selection
• Files, Open TiddlyWiki file Import opens and can toggle what to import, tiddler import works
• EXPORTING
• View Menu, More > Export tiddler > Presents choice csv, JSON and Static HTML
• CSV Saves wiki
• Import geolocations JSON
• Tiddlers imported
• Displays "undefined widgety 'geoloc'
• Save, Reload Button "No result
• Exit Quinoid
• Repoen - Geolocation tiddler, previouse error gone
• Get Message $:/temp/geolocationsMessage eolocation access denied: User denied Geolocation. "You may not are connected via httpS:" (exactly as reported no typos).
• Phone Settings >  Apps and Notifications, Locate Quinoid, permissions, all permissions, can only see SD related permissions
• Phone Settings >  Apps and Notifications > App Permissions > Your Location > Quinoid not listed for me to activate (setup widget uses same icon as Quinoid

One of my wikis has the Title @@colour:blue:titlename@@ and renders the same in the list.- I do not think you need to address this.

Regards

Tony

[TonyM]

More...

• Changing site title in wiki was reflected in Qinoid WIki list next time Quinoid was reloaded
• Can open html and txt files only (no longer select .tw files) which displayed as text before.
  
• Can Import Text files into a tiddler.
  
• Can open text file in a Quinoid Window", select text and display text window, copy and paste or do web search with selection. Which opens in Google search. Could be used to store cut and paste text for anywhere on phone.
• I can import a empty.tw as a text tiddler (once opened very big so hard to close with scroll to top, Blanks every page up,  No way to grab the fast slider bar (very small, on Right Hand Side, becomes visible on slide) - Closed app and returned
• Opening text file in wiki list reads 
• (Title unknown)
  content://com....ome%3ATest.txt
• could this default to ATest.txt ? ie filename only?
  
  
• Import Image from Gallery select image worked 
• for jpg
• Another jpg would just not import
• Import MPEG (Took a long time to list and when selected to IMPORT got Internal Javascript error, uncaught exception.
• Wiki behaving badly as a result but other wiki ok
• Return to Wiki list then return to working wiki, the broken wiki presents only a white screen
• Import PDF works but will not render on opening tiddler containing it
  
• Imported tiddler not appearing in TW5 recent list as with other images
• When deleting tiddlers the popup confirmation works well.
• Using the Android "Back" - "Left triangle" at wikilist, leaves quinoid and it remains in memory, you must "swipe right in Active apps list" to actually close. Yet I can not return to above "broken wiki", Restarted phone, still not opening, assume dead wiki file.

Regards

Tony

 

[Mohammad]

Hi Tony

 Have you got new icon?

I installed the new update the icon is the same as 190128a a middle aged cat (seems very serious)!

--Mohammad

[Watt]

Works well for me.
Imported a plugin, got the usual TW dialogue and saved. To reload I went back to file list, removed the wiki and then reloaded it via local explorer. Plugin then worked and changes persist. Import working!

Selecting plain text brings up the usual Android 'share/copy/translate etc' menu but I can't do the same with links. I'm sure that's on your list already.

Thanks again, import is another big improvement.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Android 8.0.0.

Because of interest in non-TW formats I tested. 

1 -- Internal links don't work in vanilla HTML for me. Actually it was a "mhtml". A normal browser is better for that IMO.

2 -- Playing with TXT. Fine for viewing. Awkward to select text from because of swipe actions Q needs.

3 -- JPG is okay but it needs pinch-zoom to get the sizing correct.

I comment on other subito.

Best wishes

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Andriod 8.0.0.

JSON import working -- after import I had to (1) save; (2) close Q. & re-open.

This ability with JSON is a god-send because its a really simple route to customisation.

Josiah

On Wednesday, 30 January 2019 06:16:56 UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

This a broader comment I'm not expecting you to solve. Just thought it worth noting.

Load time is I think fine. But that is likely because I know what is going on. Larger TW do take some seconds to load ...

My query is whether a "Loading xyz" could be displayed on load? 

Just a thought

Josiah

On Wednesday, 30 January 2019 06:16:56 UTC+1, Mark S. wrote:

[Mark S.]

Obviously, I need to fire my graphic artist ...

[Mark S.]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the feedback. I wasn't really intending anyone to import a MPEG. I was really just aiming at light text and JSON. Possibly I should try to see if there's a way to limit files over some size limit.

I wouldn't load a MPEG even into my desktop TW! It's interesting that you got it to work, though.

It's "Quinoid is broken because it won't show movies" is the reason why I am reluctant to allow other media to be opened. Even VLC, which is meant to show movies, sometimes has trouble on my devices.

-- Mark

[Mark S.]

What happened if you didn't close and re-open? Was it a plugin that needed to be re-initialized?

Thanks!

-- Mark

[Mark S.]

On Tuesday, January 29, 2019 at 10:47:16 PM UTC-8, TonyM wrote:

One of my wikis has the Title @@colour:blue:titlename@@ and renders the same in the list.- I do not think you need to address this.

Remember that you can long-press the title in the list and then provide your own display name.

Thanks!

-- Mark