Feedback - rolling back from TW5 to TWC

[Smandoli]

I have finally attempted to migrate a wiki from Classic TWC to TW5.  But I will return to Classic.  In case it is helpful, here are the reasons. 

1. I use a laptop, not a mobile device.  TW5 is designed for use on a small screen, it seems (large type, etc).  I can't see enough of what I want.  TWC allows me to adjust type size, so I believe I could tweak my wiki for use on a small screen if I wanted to; but I haven't been able to find the methods to accomplish the reverse in TW5.
2. Another personal trait that perhaps makes TW5 less appealing:  I'm happy to keep my work on a local drive (using Tiddly Desktop).  Therefore some mission-critical needs that have driven TW5 don't so much matter to me. 
   
3. Migrating content tiddlers is a chore.  The "upgrade" macro takes care of most formatting, but apparently not line breaks, so I have to insert more line breaks to finish the task.  Therefore most tiddlers effectively require two steps, and the second one is a bit labor-intensive.
   
4. Using TWC, modifying my wiki has been an interesting, absorbing and fruitful hobby.  It requires work and learning (JavaScript and use of python for transforming the document), but the prospect is inviting and the results are lovely.  For whatever reason -- maybe my fault for having less available time, or lower personal commitment because I have a working application in TWC -- I haven't been able to break into creative work with TW5. 
   

I feel envious of those who are using TW5; I wonder, how did they do it?  I haven't found much on record to answer that question.  In any case, spending the next two years with TWC, though deprecated, promises to be more fun than making the switch.

Of course it is impossible to post a list like this without revealing myself as a complainer and an incompetent.  I humbly accept the charges, but please know that TW has improved my life through personal information management and I think about it every day with interest, gratitude and passion.  I am in debt to Jeremy, Eric and all you others -- and it means much to me that you stay aware of diverse needs in the community, including those like mine, and you invest thought and effort into bridging the gaps created by new development.  

[Tobias Beer]

Hi Smandoli,

 

I feel envious of those who are using TW5; I wonder, how did they do it?  I haven't found much on record to answer that question.  In any case, spending the next two years with TWC, though deprecated, promises to be more fun than making the switch. 

Tbh, I think for me it was a "start from scratch" type attitude that I could afford as I had no need to migrate a lot of content from TWC to TW5... and any stuff I did, I would only convert on an "as-needed" basis, rather than try and have everything converted / cleaned upfront.

So, perhaps that is a strategy for you, to only gradually upgrade the markup of individual tiddlers as you notice a need, otherwise leave them untouched until you do... rather than try and have it all fully merged  from 2 to 5 in all regards, which I fully understand can be a big challenge.

On the other hand, quite many things are much simpler in TW5 and work out of the box. Macros alone provide a wealth of options to bake and weave tidbits in interesting ways without any javascript whatsoever.

Best wishes,

Tobias.

[PMario]

>
> Of course it is impossible to post a list like this without revealing myself as a complainer and an incompetent. 

don't mind. I think your way is perfekt, because it fits your needs. I also use several old TWs because changing / migrating the content is more work, than its worth it. ... but I use TW5 for new wikis.

I'm very happy of the new "new line" behaviour, because it enables the content to be device independent.

-m

[Mat]

Hi Smandoli and IMO really VALUABLE when people put up informed and specific critiqe.

Yeah, they're similar but different. Like for Tobias, it was pretty much learning it from scratch. I made some early attempts but I just couldn't get my head around it. Now that I have, at least enough to get by, I don't only wonder what was so tricky but I'm also really, really, glad that I did go through. That said, my main TW is still a TWC and my attempts so far at "converting" it has failed because it is very customized and with lots of "forEachTiddler" etc.  If I spent many hours on it (....which I will have to at some stage) then I'm sure I can get it to work though. As noted by both Tobias and Mario, the "trick" is to use TW5 for new cases/needs. This way you get to know it gradually and solve thing more in the usual by-need-basis as they occur. (Which is fun!)

For someone like you, who is familiar with - and is fine with - the quirks and limitations of TW in general, I would think it is a mistake to not persist. For one thing, while TWC is definitely alive and fantastic, it is also definitely fading in many respects, just like so many other great coding projects that simply age due to decreasing user base. To name one thing; what if the browsers suddenly change and neither TWC nor TW5 work... I suspect more people will engage in redesigning the latter...

 

Migrating content tiddlers is a chore.  The "upgrade" macro takes care of most formatting, but apparently not line breaks, so I have to insert more line breaks to finish the task.  Therefore most tiddlers effectively require two steps, and the second one is a bit labor-intensive.

 

Lack of simple line breaks is a BIG frustration for me too. Even just to make a simple list one is forced to use : or *.  You reminded me of a concept I've been thinking about. It's really a post for my TWaddle site but I'll post it here on the boards in a sec, look out for title "[Concept] Section formatter" or some such title.
 

I feel envious of those who are using TW5; I wonder, how did they do it?  I haven't found much on record to answer that question.  In any case, spending the next two years with TWC, though deprecated, promises to be more fun than making the switch.

In addition to "use it for a new project", I'd say one should focus on filters. It is well documented but much of it from a technical point and IMO the very first beginner steps are missing or less clear. With forEachTiddler there was a given structure into which you put your arguments but TW5 filters are very dynamic and one has to understand more of what's actually happening.

<:-)

[Felix Küppers]

Hi Smandoli

> I use a laptop, not a mobile device. TW5 is designed for use on a
> small screen, it seems (large type, etc). I can't see enough of what

> I want. TWC allows me to changed type size, so I think I could tweak
> my wiki for use on a small screen; but I haven't been able to find the
> methods for this in TW5.

Did you try out the new "thight theme" at http://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease?

-Felix

[Jed Carty]

I made a tool for changing font options here.

[Smandoli]

The Tight theme looks like it solves a crucial problem.  Thank you.

[Smandoli]

I wondered how to keep the stability of 5.1.9 while incorporating the Tight theme ... import the plugin obviously, but how? 

Then these thoughts came smashing into my head: 

Give this team a little time,
stay tuned,
look for the 5.1.10 release. 

Tiddlywiki 5 is maturing fast. 
It's a thrill to watch. 

I may not be an early adopter.... but I'm an adopter... and maybe in 2016 I'll even become an adapter! 

Happy New Year!