Notowritey - Outliner/editor for TW

[Mark S.]

Per request, starting a new thread here.

As always, make backups because the State department will disavow all knowledge of your activities.

Although I think you can start using NW now, future changes (like field names) might cause various features (like outline levels) to break. Also, there is a new "Backup Tag Order" feature under settings that you might want to use from time to time. Various operations can corrupt tag order (hopefully only by other 3rd party apps, but who knows?), so having a copy handy will make it easier to patch up in that eventuality.

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What is NotoWritey ?

NotoWritey is a text editor and outliner for TiddlyWiki that allows you to concentrate on writing documents one section (tiddler) at a time. By breaking documents down into their components, it makes it easier to follow the Philosophy of tiddlers and to reference individual sections of your document for use in references and quote extraction.

The outliner feature means that you can "fold" away sections of your writing that you're not working on so that you can concentrate just on your current writing.

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S ... 

I've added the tag pill, although, as I understand it, you want to use it to add sorting. So that doesn't sound like you're using it for a text document. Eventually I should add a sorting feature to the hamburg menu similar to other outliners. It would likely sort by the contents (or first line of contents) of the associated tiddlers.

Actually it helps me write being able to sort to "modified order". Who said documents are invariant linear? I simply thought the tag pill was a Good idea as there are tools already that work inside it. 

Less hassle for you too.

Noto is a great tool because somehow you hit a sweetpoint where extant tools totally cooperate.

TT

[Mark S.]

For those who want a drag-and-drop solution for their own tiddlers (MAKE A BACKUP FIRST!), there's a plugin version of the TW file:

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-plugin.html

It just has the basic mechanism -- no documentation.

I didn't test it. Let me know if anything major is missing.

It's likely that plugin versions will lag behind the development version due to the extra time it takes to pack up the plugin.

Thanks!

[TonyM]

Mark,

New from the old thread.

Do you mean a special saver function, or ?? You can already save a set of tiddlers by saving everything marked with the document tag plus the document tag tiddler itself. But I suspect you mean something else.

Currently if I type in a bullet point, it is saved tagged with the nominated tag, 

For example some points;

and the tiddlers are named in the following form (Using a tag-pill).

However in this case I would prefer each tiddler to actually be named with the full text in the first line of point.

This could make it easier to reorder, yes the list field will be big, but should be ok.

My thought is an option to rename any or all points to have the tiddler name from the first line of each point, while the tag will maintain the connection.

This would allow it to be done after splitting the content entered.

Even better if it could be set to do this every time, and after splitting.

What do you think?

Regards

Tony

[TonyM]

Mark,

I see now you may be reliant on the name to maintain structure.

Perhaps this idea is for a different tool.

Regards

Tony

[Mark S.]

Well, we could certainly make a tool that would rename tiddlers that way, but I'm afraid that it might blow up some documents. Take TT's "Crusoe" document as a case in point -- I'm pretty sure some of those entries would have the same name, and the outcome would be unpredictable. So the tool might be available as a separate entity, but not part of the distribution, since the user will really need to understand backups and the way that tags and list fields work in case something goes awry.

Just thinking, maybe what's really needed is a different tag button that would show the first line of text.

But if the reason that you want to see the text is for purposes of rearrangement, I am working on a way to move tiddlers where you see the first line (actually 50 characters) of the target tiddler. I also have another idea for movement where you don't need to know the tiddler's name. But it all takes time.

Thanks!

[TonyM]

Mark

Thanks for considering this. No need to go out of your way. Once an outline is captured by any means and naming standards, we can use, read, transform it in many ways. I believe the more fundamental a solution the more adaptable it is. Also streams is offering post entry title changes. Eventualy I would like to allow your two tools share data but I will do it for myself.

A one liner info that explains how the subtiddler s are organised would help people.

You have answered questions I had not yet worked out how to ask with this tool.

Love your work
Tony

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

Well, we could certainly make a tool that would rename tiddlers that way, but I'm afraid that it might blow up some documents. Take TT's "Crusoe" document as a case in point -- I'm pretty sure some of those entries would have the same name, and the outcome would be unpredictable. So the tool might be available as a separate entity, but not part of the distribution, since the user will really need to understand backups and the way that tags and list fields work in case something goes awry.

Ciao Mark, some observations, then a question ... 

Renaming Tools... Right. But on the upside several tools already exist the enable working with renaming and list field management. Yeah you need to make sure you backed up, both tiddlers & tag list field, at this time. For instance, I did some testing using crude passing of arguments to Tiddler Commander that worked well for my use cases. Of course you don't need a heavyweight tool like that. I also tested with a tool written by Riz that you use to rename tiddlers in batch via export to JSON then re-import. Worked okay for my slrict "Crusoe" numbering. Point is both tests are proof of concept of using independent utilities that exist can work with Noto.

"Document Focus"... The way I'm using it is to think of it as a "document maker". Its shifted my concept of what you can do in TW more towards how I actually write.

I did several tests transcluding Noto Instances into a "document template" structure. The idea was to have Noto both maintain the "document content" and the "type of document template and styles". In time I give another example so this is clearer. Point being is Noto is not just an outliner, its a generic "context editor" -- in other words all "fragments" are in place as you work. That is brilliant.

 

Just thinking, maybe what's really needed is a different tag button that would show the first line of text. 

That sounds neat! IF complex rearrangements are needed.

15 - Moving Controls in Bottom Edit Bar ...

But, for myself, just from the bottom edit bar to have an "up" arrow and a "down" arrow (I assume it would work by transposing the positions of two adjacent tiddlers in list field?) would be enough.

 Question: On indent & Styling

I been trying understand how the indents work in the Outliner Version. Am I right in thinking its done using styles that indent the content of the Tiddler? With styles set by the level number set in a field of each Tiddler? If so its an ingenious approach that gets round the nesting problem of <li> spanning Tiddlers (they break). Right? 

Best wishes

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

Question: Advanced Search Filter Order?

A naive and, hopefully, simple to answer question ... In there a simple  "Advanced Search" filter that will accurately list Tiddlers by tag in same order as list field?

Use case. From Advanced Search, Tiddler Commander etc you run filter the use the export function to create JSON in THAT order?

Best wishes

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

Question: Is The Tag Name Stored Anywhere Other Than In The Macro Call?

I.e. any place in addition to <<noto tagname>>

Reason  I ask is in Inter-working with other tools I'd like to be able to pass the tag name, but to do that I'd need somewhere to get it from. 

Best wishes

TT

[TonyM]

TT,

I shared an implementation of noto where you do not use the macro in the tiddler, instead it is called from the view template when it finds a noto field which contains the tag. Of course you can do this as well and it makes the tag name accessible in the noto field.

Regards

Tony

[Mark S.]

Added the ability to move one item up or down from the hamburg menu. Also the ability to move multiple tiddlers identifying by first line (or 50 characters of the first line) of tiddlers. Neither of these move tools are "smart" -- they literally move the tiddlers without regard to the fold level.

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

[Mark S.]

[tag[mytag]] should use the list field in "mytag". In my quick experiment, the tiddlers appeared to export correctly to the JSON. They even kept the same order when importing, which I found surprising. To have a complete kit, I suspect that you need to export the tag tiddler as well, because the target tiddlywiki can sort things anyway it wants ... eventually.

Do you have an example where the order wasn't maintained?

[Mark S.]

On Monday, June 8, 2020 at 1:24:49 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:

 Question: On indent & Styling

I been trying understand how the indents work in the Outliner Version. Am I right in thinking its done using styles that indent the content of the Tiddler? With styles set by the level number set in a field of each Tiddler? If so its an ingenious approach that gets round the nesting problem of <li> spanning Tiddlers (they break). Right? 

Yes. At every step, knowing I'm not even a fortune 1000000 company, I tried to keep the approach simple and maintainable, even if the result isn't quite as "dynaworkflowy". Trying to use nested indents would have been problematic, because the software tools I have available (e.g. reveal widget) seem to introduce their own additional paragraph nesting. In fact, I haven't been able to find where all the paragraph breaks are being introduced, so have to squeeze them out using styles. 

Thanks!

[Mark S.]

Well, it's stored in it's own tag tiddler. But you knew that. So, I'm trying to understand exactly how you want the tag to be passed. I suppose the tag tiddler itself could be tagged as "nw-doc-tag" so that you could identify all instances.

Thanks!

[TiddlyTweeter]

I need to describe the issue better.

Not quite there yet.

A dopo, J.

[TiddlyTweeter]

I think its a Good "independent fragment" approach. 

Other ways are not free.

TT

2 cents

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao TonyM

I'm (early) thinking of "docs" that may have several "noto". How would I design  a master "template" that on click would spawn the framework, the several tag tiddlers for noto and the noto instances that are transcluded?

I think your framework idea is nice. But, how, practically, to do it?

I can give a serious example if you'd like help this.

TT, x

[TiddlyTweeter]

I just tried it. Excellent on SINGLE up / down. (Mostly what I'd do.)

But the "Move" is AWESOME, with taking next few with it or not, to a destination you select, with options of before or after..

Very useful practically. Simple & understandable. In a word: STUNNING.

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Not sure.  I got in a mess with unpopulated non-existant tag Tiddlers confusing the issue.

I will check out reliability on only extant populated tag Tiddlers & report back.

TT

[TonyM]

TT,

I think your framework idea is nice. But, how, practically, to do it?

Previously I posted a view template way of adding noto, however I just experimented with the following;

<h3> ``Introduction``</h3>
<<noto intro>>
<h3> ``Body``</h3>
<<noto body>>
<h3> ``Conclusion``</h3>
<<noto conclusion>>

This approach could be incorporated into a view template, which appears only if there is a Noto field or some other indicator.

You still need initialise, and the overhead of the tools visibly may be better behind a details widget

If mark does not work on this approach himself, (I urge him to keep it simple) but extendable, I can have a go after the design settles down.

Slightly off topic

This points to a reoccurring code pattern that needs to become an easy to use solution.

• A View template that displays according to a condition list a tag or field, or field content
• The ability to toggle visibility on or off in the whole wiki (use View template tag) or a specific tiddler override
• A Button that appears on tiddlers according to a filter that sets the condition required to activate the above view template

I have started building one, and all the techniques are known to me to drive each new button from a simple definition tiddler, its self created with a click.

The only thing that remains is identifying an effective way to generate multiple buttons with unique icons without making it a chore.

Regards

Tony

[Dave Parker]

Just trying this for the first time - Looks useful!!

Just wondering, is there an option to fold away that settings thingie that sits at the bottom of every noto-Tiddler? 

(might be a bit prettier that way ;)

- Dave

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

Couple of things ...

List Field Order Is Preserved, I'm pretty much sure, On Import. But note the way I tested was to export by using PMario's Bundler. N.B. a "List Bundle" not a "Filter Bundle." I also included the Tag Tiddler. That seems a v. secure method.

Possible Problem With Larger Numbers?? arose for me In testing the two "Various" editions. I cannot get either to work with the 500+ Crusoes. The wiki & browser (FF) freeze totally, restart required. This is with exactly the same data used as the prior version with the "Crusoe" test I posted that worked. 

Best wishes

TT

TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Not sure.  I got in a mess with unpopulated non-existant tag Tiddlers confusing the issue.

I will check out reliability on only extant populated tag Tiddlers & report back.

[TiddlyTweeter]

You can already hide it if you know CSS. That bottom section is a div with a class ...

<div class="nw-settings">

I'm sure a hider toggle for that section will come from someone in due course. I think its more the overall tool needs settle a bit more first??

Best wishes

TT

[Mark S.]

On Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 6:13:29 AM UTC-7, TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Possible Problem With Larger Numbers?? arose for me In testing the two "Various" editions. I cannot get either to work with the 500+ Crusoes. The wiki & browser (FF) freeze totally, restart required. This is with exactly the same data used as the prior version with the "Crusoe" test I posted that worked. 

I have a version with dynaview wrapped around. You can see if that helps:

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-dynaview.html

Let me know!

Thanks!

[TiddlyTweeter]

Notes On Performance At Scale ...

1. New Noto But Loading Existing Tiddlers With No Outliner fields... Having played with the DYNA and non-Dyna OUTLINERs to see if they cope with 500 Crusoes, result ... None of them can take 500 Crusoes UNLESS the extra fields the Outliner version needs are present already on starting noto instance.
So to confirm test I used "Copy Wikitext" of the Simple Doc version pasted it into the first TIiddler in a noto instance and In all three Outliner versions created correct "Crusoe" Tiddlers with proper populated fields.
NotaBene, sets of these Tiddlers, WITH the Outliner fields CAN THEN be imported/exported at scale, either with or without the Tag Tiddler.
 Dynaview version seems no different on this than others. (Note: none of these issues arise with lower numbers of Tiddlers)

2. Test For Screenplays... I suspect the Non-Outliner version, the one for simple "Docs", could be stunning for writing screenplays. I did some tests importing full scripts, capture to WikiText and re-import. Well performative at scale!! This is something I work on over time & maybe do a detailed example for.

Best wishes

TT

 

Mark. S

I have a version with dynaview wrapped around. You can see if that helps:

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-dynaview.html

Let me know!

Possible Problem With Larger Numbers?? arose for me In testing the two "Various" editions. I cannot get either to work with the 500+ Crusoes. The wiki & browser (FF) freeze totally, restart required. This is with exactly the same data used as the prior version with the "Crusoe" test I posted that worked. 

Thanks!

[Mark S.]

 Thanks for testing! Once you had the Crusoes (new system of measurement) installed in Dyna View, was performance any better? If not either

1. Having Dynaview doesn't help this kind of TW file

2. I implemented Dynaview incorrectly

Thanks!

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

Here are quick tests I did throwing the "Misery" screenplay into noto ... The are approx 1800 Tiddlers. In reality you'd not use it like that, but chunk into smaller "Acts" of around 150 Tiddlers each. Nonetheless, gives a feel for performances...

Test in Noto Outliner ...

 

Test in Noto Outliner + Dynaview

I think Dynaview can help, but I'm not sure its for this scenario? Sometimes its actually worse for Notos! I don't know enough to know how to make it optimal.

Best wishes

TT 

[Mark S.]

Thanks!

Both of them were a little slow to load and there was one "stop script" message for each. Still less than 30 seconds on my refurbished, ancient laptop with 8gigs ram.

Once loaded, I can tell dynaview is working. You page down, and the screen is blank. A moment later it renders. So it's working, but doesn't seem to be adding any value. The normal noto mode seemed to work fine once it was loaded. I'm guessing behind the scenes the DynaView version is using less memory. So if you wanted to work in the middle of a long play, your ff would be less likely to crash. Maybe.

In both of the versions, it was hard to type into an edit box. Each letter taking a half second or more to appear.

So, yeah. Lot's to think about.

Thanks!

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

I'm doing some experiments with Splitology in Noto. I can't find the pre-outliner version? One with the global "splitting" off? I can find 3 versions of Outliner.

UPDATE:  ignore stuff in Red. I found what I needed in an version I saved before.

Could you indicate where I can change the regex(?) in the macro(s) that determines the split point so I can modify myself for testing? Just FYI I'll be loading texts with split points indicated by string "%SPLIT%"

Many thanks

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Update for those on email to my last post in Red.

On Tuesday, 16 June 2020 06:46:11 UTC+2, TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Ciao Mark

I'm doing some experiments with Splitology in Noto. I can't find the pre-outliner version? One with the global "splitting" off? I can find 3 versions of Outliner.

UPDATE:  ignore stuff in Red. I found what I needed in a version I saved before.

[Mark S.]

I think the only version without splitting was an early version before I put splitting in.

The splitting happens in DocumentTemplate. There are 3 places the split has to go. Just search for splitregexp .

Why 3?

One finds the new "sentences" and creates the new tiddlers.

The second performs a count and then inserts the titles into the correct place in the list using that count.

The final finds the first sentence and writes over the original tiddler

HTH

[Mark S.]

Thot -- I suppose the splitter expression should eventually get it's own configuration tiddler.

[TiddlyTweeter]

Thanks Mark. Much appreciated.

With a bit of luck I'll do a demo of outcome next couple of days.

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark 

This is still in process but  it shows something about Noto Splitology that is really excellent.

I think real world issues are helpful. For a long time I wanted to present (and edit) movie scripts in TW. The problem I always had was that screenplays have an incredibly strict discipline. Movie makers think in terms of "pages". One script page being one minute of film. Its a very old method. And very odd if you don't use it.  But it works well. Very well.

What I needed was a way to combine & split according to editing need. This changes over time in screenplay development. In First edit you really need be SCENE focused. In Later edit you need be PAGE focused.

The definable split, plus snapshot export back to one Tiddler, in Noto, basically gives a method to infinitely play with screenplay writing in a way that actual screenwriters could use. Here is a proof of concept where split in Noto is on every 56th line ... "splitregexp[%SPLIT%]"

https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoMAKER.html#MISERY%20PAGINATED

MISERY comes out at at 105 pages. That is more or less its length in minutes, so that is perfect for screenwriting. (FYI the visible Page numbers are just dynamic CSS counters on the back of a Noto class., which is what you want, you would not want them hard coded.)

FYI, I inserted the split points into the script using Tiddler Commander. So there is no need to leave TW to do that.

https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoMAKER.html#%24%3A%2FCommander

I'm pretty sure you could cascade actions like this into "recipes" such that a screenplay author could focus on writing extremely well. Moving between scene splits and page splits via WikiText "compiles".

I wanted you to see it, mainly because Noto is "document" focused, and this a Good example of that, I think. 

Noto is very easy to use and, with thought, can be matched to many end purposes.

Thanks & best wishes

TT

[Mark S.]

 Thanks for the feedback, TT!

It seems like for your purposes the "flat" editor is proving more useful, even though it's older and lacking some of the new editor features (join next x tiddlers, reset changes).

I'm wondering if I could rig the editor to switch between the two modes, so you could do larger, flatter documents in the plain editor but then have the outliner available when editing smaller, or more folded, documents.

The dynaview plugin doesn't seem to have improved performance, which is a shame.

It seems like being able to configure the split phrase dynamically might be useful.

I was hoping there would be more interest in either the outliner or the editor. Perhaps  I misjudged the need.

Thanks!

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

It seems like for your purposes the "flat" editor is proving more useful, even though it's older and lacking some of the new editor features (join next x tiddlers, reset changes).

Actually I think the more sophisticated outliner is great too.

"Flat edit" just is what you need in scripts. And that is a major interest of mine.

If  I can I will give an outliner issue soon too.

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

  

I'm wondering if I could rig the editor to switch between the two modes, so you could do larger, flatter documents in the plain editor but then have the outliner available when editing smaller, or more folded, documents. 

 I don't know if its two things or one.

What I can see is that both approaches work. Which is best is somewhat purpose dependent,  I think.

TT

[TW Tones]

Mark,

I think feedback on Noto, could be like when I practice french with a native speaker, When I get it wrong the feed back is confusion, quizzical looks, questions and possible laughter, when I get it right there is no feedback at all, they simply respond to the meaning of what I say. The only language feedback is in the negative.

Also I expect a lot of people will put Noto on a shelf, pending an appropriate application.

A Few more Q&A's may help some users.

Regards

Tony

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

 It seems like being able to configure the split phrase dynamically might be useful.

Certainly for users like me who like regex it would be useful. Better than having to hack your code.

What I like about Noto a lot is once a user got their "doc" prepped its a doddle to slice it.

Its far less complex than extant tools in TW. IMO is accords well with actual methods end users understand. So, ...

16 - Allow User To Dynamically Define Split Point Regex

Best wishes

TT

 

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

... I was hoping there would be more interest in either the outliner or the editor. Perhaps  I misjudged the need.

Me too.

Its, I think, the usual TW story. Not that many people here & right now I count 4 variations on inline-ish editing going on. That is a lot for our numbers.

FWIW, I favor Noto because its closer to a "building block" approach. That comes out in the kind of things I write which benefit from simple building blocks, rather than something more formed than I need or want.

Just a comment

TT

[Birthe C]

Mark S,

TW Tones could be right.

I have been playing with the editor, the outliner and they just works. I have been using the outliner each day since the first version because I find it useful. I just do not have anything intelligent to add to that. I am sure it will be a loved addition to Tiddlywiki.

I am not a regex person, so I hope it will not be a necessity, but an option?

Birthe

[Mark S.]

I thought I'd add a little to the documentation, and then I discovered a bug in the split routine. I'm surprised no one else came across it. Hopefully it's fixed now.

Plugins are now a standard part of the NW distribution. So any time you want to upgrade your existing NW file you can just drag and drop the plugin in from the plugins section. Note that you should first delete the following individual (non-shadow) tiddlers from your file if they exist:

• $:/core/images/chevron-down
• $:/core/images/chevron-left
• $:/core/images/chevron-right
• $:/core/images/chevron-up
• $:/core/images/fold-button-minus
• $:/core/images/menu-button-hamburg
• $:/core/images/unfold-button-plus
• $:/plugins/MAS/NotoWritey/readme
• DocumentTemplate
• Folding Macros
• MoveSelection
• NotoWritey Macros
• NotoWritey Styles

Currently there is no separate project for the plain editor vs. the outliner -- it's all outliner. I probably won't be pursuing the dynaview option, since that didn't seem to improve performance.

As a reminder, the NW file can be found at:

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

[TW Tones]

Mark,

Thanks so much for this solution and the updates. 

• Perhaps one day you may allow us to toggle the display of the notowritey settings, just for a cleaner screen.
• Perhaps it could be put behind the info tab with $:/tags/TiddlerInfo once the setup is complete.
• I plan to write a similar method to that in my recent post Jumping into Streams to demonstrate how your solution can be leveraged further without needing further code changes.

I have being trying to replicate your buttons to take snapshots of other tiddlers as html, wikitext to clipboard and tiddler. I am however foundering.

If you ever feel so inclined I would love toolbar icons to do this for any tiddler, this is a most impressive feature and it could be used in many places including streams. No pressure, and yes I am saying it again, in different words.

Imagine a Large and complex tiddler, with lots of calculations and date tiddlers could be captured into shapshot, and displayed instead of the actual tiddler (hide-body = yes) and a refresh button provided so it is not a performance hit by just being displayed. This would also allow a large report result to be captured "as at a particular time" and remain valid despite changes to the underlying data.

I am happy to help achieve any of my suggestions in here, please ask.

Love your work

TW Tones.

[Mark S.]

Hi Tony,

On Sunday, June 28, 2020 at 9:20:13 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:

I have being trying to replicate your buttons to take snapshots of other tiddlers as html, wikitext to clipboard and tiddler. I am however foundering.

If you ever feel so inclined I would love toolbar icons to do this for any tiddler, this is a most impressive feature and it could be used in many places including streams. No pressure, and yes I am saying it again, in different words.

Below is a modified
   $:/core/macros/export

tiddler. Now when you click on the "export tiddler" option, you get two more choices. One copies the rendered tiddler to HTML, and the other copies to plain text.

I don't think copying the all-up wikitext would be easy. There are no tools for collecting the rendered output of a tiddler as wikitext. You can get the parsetree(s), but then you'd have to turn them back into wikitext, which is likely to be non-trivial. You could capture the exact wikitext for the single tiddler, but that wouldn't be very useful.

If you hurry, the modifications here may be at https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html. While playing with the text, I accidentally posted it there. But I don't intend to have a change to the core as part of the NotoWritey distribution, so the next update will erase the changes.

HTH!

\define compile-h2()
<$transclude mode=block/>
\end
\define compile-w2()
<$view field="text"/>
\end
\define exportButtonFilename(baseFilename)
$baseFilename$$(extension)$
\end

\define exportButton(exportFilter:"[!is[system]sort[title]]",lingoBase,baseFilename:"tiddlers")
<span class="tc-popup-keep"><$button popup=<<qualify "$:/state/popup/export">> tooltip={{$lingoBase$Hint}} aria-label={{$lingoBase$Caption}} class=<<tv-config-toolbar-class>> selectedClass="tc-selected">
<$list filter="[<tv-config-toolbar-icons>match[yes]]">
{{$:/core/images/export-button}}
</$list>
<$list filter="[<tv-config-toolbar-text>match[yes]]">
<span class="tc-btn-text"><$text text={{$lingoBase$Caption}}/></span>
</$list>
</$button></span><$reveal state=<<qualify "$:/state/popup/export">> type="popup" position="below" animate="yes">
<div class="tc-drop-down">
<$list filter="[all[shadows+tiddlers]tag[$:/tags/Exporter]]">
<$set name="extension" value={{!!extension}}>
<$button class="tc-btn-invisible">
<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-download-file" $param=<<currentTiddler>> exportFilter="""$exportFilter$""" filename=<<exportButtonFilename """$baseFilename$""">>/>
<$action-deletetiddler $tiddler=<<qualify "$:/state/popup/export">>/>
<$transclude field="description"/>
</$button>
</$set>
</$list>
<hr/>
<$wikify text="""<<compile-h2>>""" name="compiled" output="html">
<$button class="tc-btn-invisible" message="tm-copy-to-clipboard" param=<<compiled>> >
HTML -> clip
</$button>
</$wikify>
<$wikify text={{!!text}} name="compiled">
<$vars regexp="\n{2,}"  regexp2="\s{1,}\n" lf="""
"""
lf2="""

"""
>
<$vars compressed={{{[<compiled>splitregexp<regexp2>join<lf>splitregexp<regexp>join<lf>splitregexp[\n]join<lf2>]}}} >
<$button class="tc-btn-invisible" message="tm-copy-to-clipboard" param=<<compressed>> >
Text -> clipboard
</$button>
</$vars>
</$vars>
</$wikify>
</div>
</$reveal>
\end

[Mark S.]

In case I write over it, I've put $:/core/macros/export here as well:

https://marxsal.github.io/various/playground.html

[TW Tones]

Thanks mark,

Much appreciated.

I will shareback, but these exporters are nice tool in their own right.

The ability to create a tiddler directly containing the HTML is also desirable.

I intend to have a snapshot of tiddlername > $:/shanpshot/tiddlername

and allow this to be displayed instead of or along side tiddlername

Regards

Tony

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

Below is a modified

   $:/core/macros/export

tiddler. Now when you click on the "export tiddler" option, you get two more choices. One copies the rendered tiddler to HTML, and the other copies to plain text.

I don't think copying the all-up wikitext would be easy. There are no tools for collecting the rendered output of a tiddler as wikitext. You can get the parsetree(s), but then you'd have to turn them back into wikitext, which is likely to be non-trivial. You could capture the exact wikitext for the single tiddler, but that wouldn't be very useful.

Very useful! That, along with your Tiddler WikiText collector in Noto covers most any situation.

FYI, the pure text one is particularly interesting to me as that is what screenplays are. Using it you can "capture" pure text (even when produced by a specialised parser, e.g. Fountain.io rules).

Best wishes

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

I spent a while working with the outliner. 

I had hoped to get the entries in TiddlyWiki Toolmap into it (simply to help me track issues I want to report to David.)

It brought up the problem I encountered before with performance.

My current impression in Outliner Mode Noto does a great job until you start to get to larger numbers. Though could be me trying to do too much at once in splits.

For instance, After prep, I was able to get it to accurately split Gifford's list at all the main "Section" headers. And then started splitting each section into individual items for each entry under it. Pretty quickly changing things got super slow.

If I get a chance I might try it a different way by fully preparing Tiddlers in Noto format First.

Just comments.

Best wishes

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

 I probably won't be pursuing the dynaview option, since that didn't seem to improve performance.

As a reminder, the NW file can be found at:

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

 

Ciao Mark

Regarding performance and Dynaview---looking at the eBook version of TW---seems to indicate its optimal for fully prepped, pre-ordered Tiddlers.

I don't fully understand how it works yet, especially its "chunkology". Xavier helpfully commented this though ...

 Xavier wrote:

Hi TT,

In order to fulfil some of the user interface requirements, like keeping track of the current reading location or creating annotations anywhere inside the text, Jeremy introduced Dynaview, then Dynannotate.  In the context of ePub reading, Dynaview's aim is to reveal on demand the little chunks that have been produced at ePub parse time, along with their possible annotations. Once you have this collection of chunks (aka tiddlers), the performance, while still subject to optimisation, is not much of a worry: these chunks are not tangled nor even weaved together through any complex cross-references system. At the time Dynaview comes into play, the list of chunks is already sorted, waiting to be displayed at reading pace. That's because ePub is a much poorer and linear format than TiddlyWiki of course. Fortunately, what can do more, can do less.

By the way, being able to split any ePub into chunks is probably the hardest part of the project. Not only because choosing the chunks limits can be hard, but also because styles are often used very loosely by publishers : for instance, you may find paragraphs that are expressed as <span style="font-size: 11pt;display: block;text-indent: 0pt;">The first paragraph of a section, as you have to guess.</span> because the WYSIWYG tools that helped producing the ePub are generally misleading. I spare you the table and images issues :-)

Cheers,

-- Xavier Cazin

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 6:43 PM TiddlyTweeter <Tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

Xavier

There is interest in it growing.

I think the very good PERFORMANCE aspect is particularly interesting since eBooks are large documents.

Over in GG we did some tests with Dynaview but still hitting issues which the eBook version does not have. I think better understanding the eBook edition of TW will help a lot.

Fingers crossed x

Best wishes

TT

Xavier wrote:

Not yet ready because of some pressing redesign, but it will eventually be released as a normal plugin

-- 

 

 

[Saq Imtiaz]

@TT could you post the document with TiddlyToolmap imported? I have a suspicion about where the performance hit on editing is coming from and comparing side by side to Streams (in which I have Tiddly toolmap imported) will be a quick way to check if I'm on the right track... Without having to dive into code.

[TiddlyTweeter]

Saq

Sure, I will. Later today I put it on line.

TT

[Mark S.]

The dynaview, as I understand it, prevents portion of the page to which you have not yet scrolled from rendering. This appeared to work, as you could tell because when you paged down there would be a pause before the page became visible. But it didn't seem to help performance. The dynaview version is still online, btw.

For that matter, I found the epub sample to be fairly slow, and it's only an excerpt from the book. It would have been interesting to see what the entire book was like, but I was unwilling to sign up for an account to purchase a public domain book that I've already read.

As an actual user of ebooks, I'm not sure the epub fulfils users needs. The epub is impressive, but probably not worth the overhead. I regularly read a huge book on TW without difficulty.  What the world really needs is a format with some sort of block-chain registry built in so that you can share and exchange commercial ebooks just like you can real books. In any event, people don't avoid reading because they need better formatting, people avoid reading because they're doing other things. And reading isn't even cheaper. A subscription to netflix will costs you less than a subscription to Kindle unlimited! You can binge watch the entire HP series in a single day, and save weeks of reading! \s

Thanks!

[Mark S.]

I imagine the performance hit comes from the way that hiding fold levels occurs. The method I used to structure the document was meant to be highly portable. So you can port all the tiddlers and the tag tiddler to any tiddler, and view them correctly using the <<toc>> macro and nothing else. And any time you want to change the order of tiddlers, you can do so using the tag pill. But, perhaps, I focused too narrowly on an unimportant goal ;-)

Possibly if there was a mode where fold-levels were turned off performance would improve. People could turn off folding in order to performance intensive activities and then turn it back on later for viewing.

Thanks!

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mark & Saq

FWIW, I put on-line two example wiki. * First version works fine on my machine ... * Has 136 items * Half at Level 1 * Half at Level 2 ...

https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoGIFFORD.html

* Second version was fine at First but once entries (splits) reached about 300 it got sluggish. * ... And if you make too many items you may get browser freeze up.

* Has 498 items * 68 at Level 1 * 430 at Level 2. I stopped splitting further on Gifford's list just before MindMapping item. That is about half way through the list. Will take time to load ...

https://tidbits.wiki/noto/notoGIFFORD-2.html

Best wishes

TT

[David Gifford]

That felt really weird to wake up and see something called NotoGifford...I expect royalties... :-)

[Saq Imtiaz]

A few quick observations. Note that I work on a very high end desktop that makes it difficult to gauge performance accurately. For example, the second Noto document from TT loads in a few seconds for me. However, comparing the performance of Streams and Noto might be insightful.

These are averages of 3 runs in Streams and Noto with the tiddly toolmap imported.

NOTO

All top level items collapsed : 

mainRender 4733ms

mainRefresh 1157ms

 

All items expanded: 

mainRender 5497ms

mainRefresh 1220ms

STREAMS

All items collapsed

mainRender: 222ms

mainRefresh 23ms

All items expanded:

mainRender: 2360ms

mainRefresh 184ms

What is interesting here is that Streams is much faster when the items are collapsed. Note that streams has a lot of complexity added in the way of filter runs for determining collapse state and drag and drag state, so I would expect Noto to be as fast if not faster. So are the sub levels in Noto rendered even if they are not shown?

Also crucially, the editing experience in Streams seems normal, not any slower than with just one tiddler in the stream. Even if the faster hardware is masking some of the problem, it shows that Noto is suffering far more of a performance hit when editing.

I think it is important to distinguish between rendering performance, when first opening the tiddler, versus refresh performance, when typing etc. 

The slow performance in Noto reminds me of what happens when editing forces a refresh of the containing tiddler or widget. This could be as simple as a set or vars widget that is being refreshed due to a containing tiddler being changed, which refreshes all the content inside those widgets. One way to resolve this is to rework the logic for filters used to avoid such a situation. 

Another workaround is to edit in draft/temp tiddlers, and only save back to the original tiddler when the user actually saves. This would mean that the surrounding content would only refresh when you save the tiddler, as opposed to on every key stroke. An intermediate step that might offer some help is setting the throttle.refresh field on the tiddler being edited.

Note also that somewhere in tiddlytoolmap in one of the list items is the code for a filter run, that will end up listing close to all the tiddlers in the wiki!! I've removed this in my copy. I wouldn't be surprised if that is exacerbating the problem.

I don't have the opportunity to look at the Noto code at the moment, but hopefully this might lead you in the right direction with regards to performance issues.
Regards,

Saq

[Mark S.]

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 7:37:00 AM UTC-7, Saq Imtiaz wrote:

A few quick observations. Note that I work on a very high end desktop that makes it difficult to gauge performance accurately. For example, the second Noto document from TT loads in a few seconds for me. However, comparing the performance of Streams and Noto might be insightful.

I need to get me one of those ;-)

 What is interesting here is that Streams is much faster when the items are collapsed. Note that streams has a lot of complexity added in the way of filter runs for determining collapse state and drag and drag state, so I would expect Noto to be as fast if not faster. So are the sub levels in Noto rendered even if they are not shown?

Hidden sub-sections are hidden by reveal widgets. When I check using inspect element, I don't see the hidden text. So I assume there's no over-head. Note that the times you got for folded vs non-folded were about 5x greater.

Also crucially, the editing experience in Streams seems normal, not any slower than with just one tiddler in the stream. Even if the faster hardware is masking some of the problem, it shows that Noto is suffering far more of a performance hit when editing.

I think it is important to distinguish between rendering performance, when first opening the tiddler, versus refresh performance, when typing etc. 

 

The slow performance in Noto reminds me of what happens when editing forces a refresh of the containing tiddler or widget. This could be as simple as a set or vars widget that is being refreshed due to a containing tiddler being changed, which refreshes all the content inside those widgets. One way to resolve this is to rework the logic for filters used to avoid such a situation. 

As far as I know, nothing should be changing when typing into a tiddler. If TW is refreshing with every key stroke, then that is a problem. On Gifford #2, if you open a separate tiddler by itself, it also types slow. So even if I changed the logic to work with a temporary tiddler, it doesn't seem like there would be an improvement.

My goals when making the outliner were:

  * Use a simple data structure (tag and list) for portability

  * Use only core widgets and wikitext

My technique is:

  * Scan through the tagged list of items

  * Each item is either displayed or not displayed, depending on it's "hidden" status, or the "hidden" status of it's superior entries

  * To find the hidden status of each item, "climb" from the existing position up one position.

      * If the prior tiddler is a superior level, and is hidden than hide

      * If the prior tiddler is not a superior level, continuing climbing

      * Repeat until you reach superior level "1".

I'm probably missing a step. But that's the overview. This backwards recursive logic is probably too much for large documents. It is possible that my two original goals are inconsistent with large-scale performance.

Hmm. Now I'm thinking that I need to restructure the logic so that it runs "forward", rather than climbing backwards.

Or buy a better machine.

 

Thanks!

[Dave Parker]

NotoWritey / Notoriety ha ha! I just got that (better late than never :D)

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark & Saq

Though  I don't grasp coding complexities  I can comment from observation ...

 

On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 at 7:37:00 AM UTC-7, Saq Imtiaz wrote:

The slow performance in Noto reminds me of what happens when editing forces a refresh of the containing tiddler or widget. This could be as simple as a set or vars widget that is being refreshed due to a containing tiddler being changed, which refreshes all the content inside those widgets. One way to resolve this is to rework the logic for filters used to avoid such a situation. 

On Tuesday, 30 June 2020 17:20:13 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote: 

As far as I know, nothing should be changing when typing into a tiddler. If TW is refreshing with every key stroke, then that is a problem. On Gifford #2, if you open a separate tiddler by itself, it also types slow. So even if I changed the logic to work with a temporary tiddler, it doesn't seem like there would be an improvement.

Right. Everything is slow. Actual edit, either in Noto instance or to the same Tiddler separately whilst Noto is open seem much the same. Actual edit is slowed but its when saving the open instance in Noto or changing folding it gets really slowed (the list field update and hiding level setting? Yes?) Beyond a certain point the browser freezes for me.

On initial loading, BTW, opening the Same Tiddlers without Noto using just the $:/StoryList is much the same as a Noto instance. Load is same. Edit is much quicker.

My goals when making the outliner were:

  * Use a simple data structure (tag and list) for portability

  * Use only core widgets and wikitext

Right. From my point of view its a nice approach. Why? Because with careful "stem name choice" you can have human readable titling you can use many ways.

That matters for many of my cases. For instance its a snap in Noto to sling in a chapter of a novel and get correctly numbered paragraphs that directly

correspond to source material ... so ... titling

"GE Chapter IV" is split to ...

"GE Chapter IV 1" thru to "GE Chapter IV 49"

Each number being a paragraph number.

​That seems very viable so long as your Noto instances are not holding zillions of items.

In a previous example I gave of a 105 page (105 Tiddler)​ full length screenplay the (in non Outliner) very worked well. 

I think the Outliner would manage just as well at that number of items too.

The Gifford-Test-2 was interesting because performance at First was fine. But as absolute numbers increased so performance started dropping exponentially.

To me that means Noto is currently best with projects whose total number of "chunks" per Noto instance doesn't get too high.

In practice I'm confident I can use it to deal with books by having an instance per chapter and so on. Sensible chunking.

David Gifford's list is challenging as I can't really see a way to chunk it down. If you chunked to sections, Noto each, its kinda defeating the objective of an umbrella outliner.

FWIW, the eBook edition of TW uses "strategic chunking" I think. I think that is one of the reasons it appears performative.

... backwards recursive logic is probably too much for large documents. It is possible that my two original goals are inconsistent with large-scale performance.

Hmm. Now I'm thinking that I need to restructure the logic so that it runs "forward", rather than climbing backwards.

IMO, for actual things I make, I think it will often be fine as it is. And large stuff needs thinking about anyway according to the specific logic of the media concerned.

It would be great if Noto performance could be improved with higher numbers, but, for me its basic logic is very neat, useable & human readable with a big range of uses.

Best wishes

TT

 

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

P.S. to last, is the populating of the "reset" field also a factor in performance?

Just wondering?

Best wishes

TT

[Mark S.]

I guess this post is more by way of encouraging myself (Go Mark go!) but I think I've made some progress. I've come up with a new algorithm for displaying the documents that seems much faster. It takes about 3 seconds on my old laptop with 8G to render David's 400+ tiddlers whether for unfolding a section, splitting, or initial display. The typing is slow, so I'll try Saq's suggestion eventually to buffer the edit inputs. Meanwhile, I need to clean up the CSS and formatting, which became rearranged in the process (as you can see below).

[Mark S.]

Here's the new version (plugin not ready yet) :

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-2020-07-02.html

It seemed reasonably performant with the toolmap data, and it is now buffered when editing so typing is unhindered.

[Saq Imtiaz]

Happy to hear this is working out!

[Mark S.]

Ok, have updated

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

and deleted

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey-2020-07-02.html

Plugin has now been updated in new version.

[Mark S.]

On Saturday, June 6, 2020 at 11:28:51 AM UTC-7, Mark S. wrote:

Per request, starting a new thread here.

As always, make backups because the State department will disavow all knowledge of your activities.

Although I think you can start using NW now, future changes (like field names) might cause various features (like outline levels) to break. Also, there is a new "Backup Tag Order" feature under settings that you might want to use from time to time. Various operations can corrupt tag order (hopefully only by other 3rd party apps, but who knows?), so having a copy handy will make it easier to patch up in that eventuality.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is NotoWritey ?

NotoWritey is a text editor and outliner for TiddlyWiki that allows you to concentrate on writing documents one section (tiddler) at a time. By breaking documents down into their components, it makes it easier to follow the Philosophy of tiddlers and to reference individual sections of your document for use in references and quote extraction.

The outliner feature means that you can "fold" away sections of your writing that you're not working on so that you can concentrate just on your current writing.

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

[Mark S.]

New release! Now you can edit in a nearly distraction-free way. When you edit, the bottom control section is gone. Floating off to the right is a checkmark control for closing the edit, and a settings cog for bringing up additional choices. There should be screenshots below.

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

[TW Tones]

Mark,

Looking good and very usable. It it possible to toggle off the features, outliner etc... but still see the resulting content?

As I said before I love the various copy buttons you have, they are brilliant, and they generate such a view but just wondering if we can toggle off the outline tools and icons, when not in use?. Imagine writing instructions and returning time and time again without the intention of editing, just reading, but be free to edit to make minor changes as needed.

• If you can advise the mechanism I would be happy to make the toggle button. Otherwise I think it would be nice if it can go into view mode.
• I would also like to toggle on or off the display of tools at the bottom.

This is a great tool, thanks so much for building it.

Regards

TW Tones

[Birthe C]

Mark S,

Great tool getting even better. In mobile view you can not see the edit buttons though.

Birthe

[Mark S.]

Hi Birthe,

Thanks for the feedback! When you say "mobile" view, do you mean some special view mode, or do you mean on a mobile device? How big is your screen?

When I try it on my tablet, I'm able to see the edit icons in landscape mode. I'm also able to see them in portrait mode, but I have to make sure the screen is as small as possible. I haven't tried it on a phone yet.

I guess I have the consolation that very few people are likely to edit while on a phone. ;-/

My dilemma is, where do I put the controls so that they are available, but don't clutter the screen? I suppose I could just put them back on the bottom, which undermines the point of the exercise somewhat.

Thanks!

[Mark S.]

Hi Tony,

Do you mean a view mode as straight text, or a view mode that retains the outline indenting?

A reading mode would be nice, but it would probably take a bit of thought. When the "hamburg" menu disappears, a lot of the CSS is likely to need tweaking.

And, where would the toggle view button itself go?

Maybe the question is, how many distractions on screen are allowable?

Thanks!

[Birthe C]

Mark S,

I do understand. I only diminished the view in my browser. When we do that in Tiddlywiki, the left and right side of the tiddler-frame gets smaller - that is default. Limiting the padding of your buttons, it is possible to use them in that view.

Sorry - I know I am bad at explaining.

You are right though, I would not want to edit on the phone either, just anticipated that eventually somebody would.

Birthe

[Birthe C]

Mark S,

I like the "hamburg" menu, one glimpse and we know instantly that here NotoWritey are at work.

Birthe

[TW Tones]

Mark

 

Do you mean a view mode as straight text, or a view mode that retains the outline indenting?

Retains the outline (expanded)

 

A reading mode would be nice, but it would probably take a bit of thought. When the "hamburg" menu disappears, a lot of the CSS is likely to need tweaking.

Actually in someways the solution is already there, with your html snapshot, and this co-insides with the other work I was doing with your example as inspiration.

• If my snapshot idea was complete a button would take a snapshot (html tiddler) eg CurrentTiddler/shapshot and display that in place of the currentTiddlers body (and thus noto) You could fold the tiddler.
• Actually this is so easy on Noto I can do it and share back.

And, where would the toggle view button itself go?

I would make one that appears on the viewToolbar, however we can leverage the fold mechanisum.

 

Maybe the question is, how many distractions on screen are allowable?

I would like to remove as many distractions as I can optionally when working, I would like to remove all distractions when publishing.

 

Thanks!

No ThankYou

[TW Tones]

Mark,

I have a build a Generic snapshot inspired by your copy to clipboard/tiddler. It is only version 0.1 but not far from completion. If you install this on a fresh copy of noto you can see its functionality.

Actually it was mostly seeing your use of using wikify and its html output. That must have being overlooked by me.

If you try this you will see why a read mode would be most helpful.

• Basically click the camera to take a snapshot. 
• It creates a html snapshot from the visible tiddler including the noto tools and buttons (if displayed)
• It then replaces the view on the original tiddler with the snapshot
• This is for complex tiddlers and reports, no need to refresh the report if you can use the last snapshot, click to generate a new snapshot.
• Now I would like to be able to take a snapshot (similar to your of copy noto copy to html tiddler)
• However rather than do this in my generic tool, and make it noto aware, or aware of a specific tool.
• If you could provide a way to make the noto view be in a read mode, I can just snapshot that read mode view.

Some thoughts for Noto

• An alternative way for you to present the copy wiki and html buttons on noto, is similar to my camera button. I tried to do it for you, but something is missing in my understanding.
• If you can provide a view whose result is the wikitext view this too could be copied to a tiddler with a generic tool.
• I take the snapshot place it in a tiddler and copy to clipboard with one button and to reduce complexity.
• Options: I could boost my snapshot features and if you provide the views, you can abandon the buttons and use my tool.

Regards

Tony

[Mark S.]

You and I are on opposite day/night schedules, so I'm keeping my response short.

On Sunday, July 5, 2020 at 9:35:12 PM UTC-7, TW Tones wrote:

I have a build a Generic snapshot inspired by your copy to clipboard/tiddler. It is only version 0.1 but not far from completion. If you install this on a fresh copy of noto you can see its functionality.

That looks pretty neat! I could be wrong, but I think the 2nd click is capturing an image of the snapshot. But I only played briefly.

 However rather than do this in my generic tool, and make it noto aware, or aware of a specific tool.

• If you could provide a way to make the noto view be in a read mode, I can just snapshot that read mode view.

So that mode would be basically removing the hamburger menus and the bottom settings?

An alternative way for you to present the copy wiki and html buttons on noto, is similar to my camera button. I tried to do it for you, but something is missing in my understanding.

So, basically if I make the icons small enough it might pass the Gifford test? ;-)

Have fun!

[TW Tones]

Mark,

You and I are on opposite day/night schedules, so I'm keeping my response short.

Yes it sometimes gets lonely in Australia during the day, and things heat up when I am going to bed :(

That looks pretty neat! I could be wrong, but I think the 2nd click is capturing an image of the snapshot. But I only played briefly.

2nd Click? Don't think so, it can be a little bit slow to render, capture, hide current tiddler and display the static tiddler, But you see little change, in someways that is the idea.

So that mode would be basically removing the hamburger menus and the bottom settings?

 

Yes please.

I think the view/copy the wiki text version may deserve a special button, one I wonder if we could make a generic one, or is it too tool specific?

An alternative way for you to present the copy wiki and html buttons on noto, is similar to my camera button. I tried to do it for you, but something is missing in my understanding.

So, basically if I make the icons small enough it might pass the Gifford test? ;-)

I am not sure about the Gifford test, I am thinking of moving the copy buttons to appear in the viewToolbar perhaps where they may escape the Giff-lord test.

 

Have fun!

You too.

TW Tones 

[TiddlyTweeter]

TW Tones wrote:

• If you could provide a way to make the noto view be in a read mode, I can just snapshot that read mode view.

Mark S: 

So that mode would be basically removing the hamburger menus and the bottom settings?

An alternative way for you to present the copy wiki and html buttons on noto, is similar to my camera button. I tried to do it for you, but something is missing in my understanding.

So, basically if I make the icons small enough it might pass the Gifford test? ;-)

The "Reading Mode" idea ... I like it a lot. Merit being that the "Noto Doc" can be both a way to develop docs but also present them ... In particular ...

• Links would become clickable;
• "Locks" the doc from accidental edit activation (an issue on touch screen tablets, I think, as it easy to accidentally activate Edit for an item)
• Appropriate for "finished" docs. For instance for putting on-line where end users don't need to edit.

Best wishes

TT

 

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

Very nice! One comment (which I can probably do myself with CSS eventually) is to keep edit box SAME WIDTH  it is in view mode.

Why? Maintains visual continuity between the two modes such that the layout of text would be identical in both view & edit modes (assuming same font is set for both).

A thought

TT

 

Mark S. wrote:

New release! Now you can edit in a nearly distraction-free way. 

[TiddlyTweeter]

TW Tones wrote:

I think the view/copy the wiki text version may deserve a special button, one I wonder if we could make a generic one, or is it too tool specific?

Ciao Tones & Mark

I'd like to chip in on this. As far as I understand it there are three "capture/snap" modes ...

1. HTML
2. PLAIN TEXT (no Wikitext captured)
3. WIKITEXT

All are useful to know about. All three Mark has given the code for, though they are not "View Bar" buttons atm. HTML & WIKITEXT are in Noto. HTML & PLAIN TEXT are in the modified export function. The WIKITEXT capture is from, I think, concatenation of Tiddler "text" fields. HTML & PLAIN TEXT from "render" levels? Yes?

As far as my understanding goes "capture" is of a named Tiddler. IF that Tiddler also transcludes other Tiddlers that are auto included.

The approach is generic & generally useful, I think.

But I'm not sure Mark actually needs make a view bar button for it. In Noto per se these three are invaluable for ..

• Backup
• Versioning out (e.g. posting HTML elsewhere)
• Leveraging Noto "SPLITOLOGY" (this particularly applies to the WIKITEXT capture where you start afresh and re-split a different way)

And tools for all that exist for Noto.

Conclusion: Making View Bar buttons for this seems A Very Good Idea. But I don't think Mark needs do that unless he feels a pressing need to.

Thoughts

TT

[Mark S.]

There is now a Publication/Read-only mode. Hopefully I didn't break anything making it, because a lot of CSS got moved around. The button is down in the settings. Once you're in the view mode, to get back to regular mode hover over the bottom of the "document" (usually the bottom of the tiddler) and it will flash a green button to press.

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html

[TW Tones]

Mark,

Beautiful. The read mode caps the whole project off, from brainstorm to publishing thanks.

You seem reluctant to use a viewToolbar button, shall I create one that becomes visible when in publish mode?

Regards

Tony

[Mark S.]

I like dropping in a macro and ... away you go. I don't want things to become too complicated.

Unfortunately, the toolbar doesn't know about the contents of it's tiddler. That is, it doesn't know anything about the macro it contains. And, of course, someone could, in a spate of cruelty, put two macros in.

However, I can imagine a way to communicate between the document and the toolbar. There could be a "Register" button that registers the document originating tiddler and the tag name somewhere. After that a toolbar icon would appear as needed. The toolbar would then know where to look for all the info it needs. But I'm not sure if it's worth the effort. Especially with a user-base of 4 ;-)

There was the "export to clipboard" project from a week ago (https://marxsal.github.io/various/playground.html) which kind of does the same thing. Note that the export tool can not collect the wikitext because there is no tool in the TiddlyWiki set that renders back to wikitext. The only way to acquire that is via the noto macro machinery which can look at each individual wiki in the set and assembly the complete document.

Thanks!

[TW Tones]

Mark,

You have persuaded me to make a button. I personally do not like putting macros in the text field to define what the wiki does. I prefer to use the text field for content.

I already created a view template field in tiddlers who's content is then transcluded in the view template, in this case I just enter `<<noto>>`.

Attached - just drop it on a wiki, then add the field local-viewtemplate containing <<noto>>

Thus the logic is in the view template and I can use the view toolbar to toggle anything. For example you can test for `local-viewtemplate<noto-string>` where noto string is `<<noto>>` thus any toggle button can appear only when this is true on the currentTiddler.

Cheeky, "User based of 4" if this were true its only because its new.

Love your work

Regards

TW Tones aka TonyM

[Birthe C]

Mark S,

Wow, That is an elegant solution.

I think you can be sure, that NotoWritey will get many users, when more people find out how handy it is.

My friend visited and saw me using Noto. He would like something like that too, and for once he did not scare off when I had to remind him, that he would need to start using Tiddlywiki then. That would be something.

Birthe

[TW Tones]

Mark,

See here, I have re-released the beta for my local-viewtemplate field. Just create the field on any install and type `<<noto>>`

Edited with link

Regards

Tony

[TiddlyTweeter]

Great stuff! It's really shaping up.

Much appreciated by users I'm sure!

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

Request. Could you add the "plain text" render option to Noto? I would then have access to all three Capture Modes in Noto.

I am finding it invaluable in document making.

Best wishes

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

Okay. Now I'm wondering about presentation in Edit Mode but just for "documents" not "outlines", i.e. the outliner buttons hidden but otherwise works as normal.

Possible, or do or we still need the 2 Noto variants?

Best wishes

TT

[Mark S.]

New in vsn 0.0.7 .

Neatened up export options. Added text export option. Added backup to zip file option.

[TW Tones]

Mark,

Thanks for the continued development here.

Unfortunately I seem to have lost the ability to edit the tiddlers, it edit mode does not accept key strokes, both Chrome/FireFox. It is acting like there was a stuck key, typing a letter jumps to that letter with a green cursor.

On testing the zip functionality I realised how easy it would be to develop work instructions and other complex processes in a Noto, just import and use it. It can contain checkboxes and all that.

All we need to facilitate this is the ability to import multiple times and use a different prefix each time.

Regards

Tony

[Mark S.]

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the heads up. Technically, it was working fine. But you probably weren't in the mood to learn Vim today ;-)

I *think* I've got a new version posted that should work OK. It looks like I need to add another step to my production cycle to be sure I've removed the developer's tools.

Thanks!

[TW Tones]

Thanks now working

I was not aware the whole vim editor was or could be embedded, would not have though I could be in Vim.

Regards

Tony

[TW Tones]

Looks like you solved this https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/tiddlywiki/hDQbb3bSC2k

Perhaps post the solution?

TW Tones

[David Gifford]

Just saw this. Very nice addition to NotoWritey!

[Mark S.]

v0.0.8 Adds the ability to specify your own split-by string

https://marxsal.github.io/various/notowritey.html