Comment on commenting ... (inspired by TonyM)

[@TiddlyTweeter]

TonyM wrote:

... the clumsy nature of Google Forums such attempts by me in the past have only generated a little feedback 

I made this a separate thread so as not to mess up TonyM's:  https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/17ABf6KbdJE/hiZXMzoQAQAJ

Actually, I think the single biggest issue on feedback (which I think essential) is there are simply NOT enough active readers for it to be optimal for authors.

But there is only so much  a finite number of followers can do.

And low number of responses is partly because they won't have interest in the issue; partly because they may not have competence to venture an opinion; partly because they missed the post in the flow; partly because GG is absolutely awful at anything but THIS moment.

l read often here that there is need for feedback, not given.

I try, within my limits. But unless there were a lot more readers I think many things won't get much feedback.

As they say: "It's nothing personal".

My 2 cents.

Best wishes

TT

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Repeat for email users ...

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mat commented to TonyM

I'm sure we all appreciate your enthusiasm and commitment for our shared little baby.

I thought TW was a strapping lass already?

TT 

 

[Mat]

I actually don't think GG is awful even if I agree a few things could be much improved. Overall, it is probably not designed for the type of "reference discussions" that we typically engage in where it is desirable to find related stuff. It would be perfect for a gossip type discussion where post really become uninteresting after a week never to be referred to again.

But for anyone suffering from lack of feedback, I agree with TiddlyTweeter:

"It's nothing personal".

This is important to understand. In fact, it is critical or it feels like everyone hates you.

<:-)

[Mat]

... our shared little baby.

I thought TW was a strapping lass already?

OK, but she's only 5.1.21 years old. And oh so pretty.

 <:-)

[TonyM]

Actualy I feel the lack of response to a request for comment is a combination of how the questions are asked (I will keep working on that) and what people personally think they contribute (always more than they realise) and only ultimately the platform in the end. I could look at building an alternate nethod, I did not get any buy-in on yammer, I could try disqus but anything that is another step away from gg our key communication tool it is another step removed.

However I also know not all people are conceptual thinkers like me, with some notable exceptions here of course. I am asking a very conceptual question here, so I expect a lower response rate, even although perhaps more people could comment.

Things could be better, but its hard to start a revolution unless there is a lot of dissatisfaction.

Regards
Tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao TonyM

I still think that *numbers* matter. And we don't have enough, I think.

TT

[David Gifford]

Hi Tony

1. Regarding my lack of comments

For the record, it is 'nothing personal' on my end, either. I am not a coder but a user who has contributed with a few adaptations, and the toolmap. My process is I check once a day to see if there are new goodies I should add to the toolmap, and anything to read that interests me personally. It is not my goal to make comments since normally I wouldn't have much to say.

2. Regarding the lack of people on the group

I, too, have noticed that the group has shrunk to a handful of the same people commenting. That doesn't make me concerned for the group but for TiddlyWiki. Are people moving on from TiddlyWiki? Or are they using it and are so satisfied with where they are on it that they don't feel the need to come here? While on the one hand, the ideal is that more and more people would be able to use TiddlyWiki without depending on the group for help, on the other hand the constant development of new plugins and features should keep people coming back.

In my case, the relink plugin has reinvigorated my use of TiddlyWiki because now I can edit titles to mark reading progress, etc, and know that the links are being updated. I used to use tagging and listwidget filters for that. I am hoping that the relink plugin won't slow my files down as the extensive tagging and listwidgets did. And the ability to use ## for internal anchors for exported HTMLs has reinvigorated my publishing of Spanish resources. Anyway, not trying to derail the thread with these off-topic comments, I am just explaining that these new developments are getting me to use, and want to use, TiddlyWiki even more than before, and they keep me checking the group. But then I have been around here long enough that I can usually see the personal implications of new developments I find here, and not everybody is able to do that. Even for me, much of TiddlyWiki is like the menus on Microsoft Word that I never open and wouldn't know what to do with.

Regarding the numbers of people, the issues are

a) the lack of easy onboarding (specifically the hassles of having to understand saving mechanisms just to use it),

b) its high learning curve for all the really cool stuff

c) its limited ability to handle images and file attachments compared to other notetaking tools

d) the lack of documentation written for non-coders.

Years ago for TiddlyWiki classic, I did a tutorial called 'TiddlyWiki for the Rest of us' (http://www.giffmex.org/twfortherestofus.html), and the reaction was huge. But I don't have the time or expertise to do something like that for TiddlyWiki now. If Jeremy were to pay professional consultants to come in to write documentation and make TiddlyWiki easier to jump into, and market it online (TiddlyWiki is now rarely mentioned in the web lists of notetaking apps), I think it would take off again. Case in point: Workflowy was stagnant a few years ago, and hired a guy to write a very good how-to-use book on it, and write a blog and do Youtube videos, and he turned things around for them.

The rise of Notion shows there are people out there willing to spend time on adapting tools like TiddlyWiki for their needs. There are people out there who would use TiddlyWiki if they knew about it and if their onboarding experience were exciting and easier to comprehend.

There is nothing as good as TiddlyWiki at what it does. It keeps getting better for me. But there are too many options that do some of what TiddlyWiki does at a level that is 'good enough' for most people, and those options also do many things that TiddlyWiki cannot. The trick is attracting and hooking the people for whom TiddlyWiki is a great fit.

Blessings,