TiddlyWiki is very irritating.

[Richard Evans]

Hi,

I have been trying to use TiddlyWiki for a long time, but the sheer number of bugs I have encountered has put me off. I keep coming back to see if it is any better. To date, I cannot report an improvement.

I am sure a lot of people will vermently disagree with my previous statement. I stand by it. You are all experienced users of TiddlyWiki, I am a learner. Thus I may not do things in the correct order to prevent the bugs. I have never encountered a message to say that I am doing things wrong, so I have to believe that I have encountered bugs.

My current missive concerns a bug in 5.14. I have a number of files that use TiddlyWiki 5. I was updating one, when I decided to upgrade it to the latest version. Accordingly I used the upgrader to upgrade the file. I did this a number of times as there were problems with the final result. The upgrade failed in one of two ways, either the document presented correctly, but none of the menus, buttons etc worked. Or the upgraded document had two menus, ( the section on the right which controls TiddlyWiki) overlaying each other.

I gave up at that point and decided to recreate my document (luckily it was short), from scratch in an empty TW5. I did this and again there was a bug, a different one this time! Presumably, to make life interesting. On this occasion, I had two documents one after another in the file. The edited file and original empty file.

TiddlyWiki is a very good idea, but unless these bugs can be squashed in a timely manner I shall have to, reluctantly, give up using it. I am wasting too much time trying to get and keep a clean un-corrupted document.

   SIncerely R A Evans

[Birthe C]

Hi Richard Evans,

Tiddlywiki has a rather steep learning curve. It does of course depend on what we are trying to achieve. I myself is learning by following this group, look at the linked tiddlywikies and testing a lot. My private Tiddlywikies are mostly using what others created only changed a little to fit my purposes.

I have been trying to use TiddlyWiki for a long time, but the sheer number of bugs I have encountered has put me off. I keep coming back to see if it is any better. To date, I cannot report an improvement.

I think that waiting for TW to improve is not a good idea. Of course TW gets better and better giving more options - and more to learn to use ;-)

I am sure a lot of people will vermently disagree with my previous statement. I stand by it. You are all experienced users of TiddlyWiki, I am a learner. Thus I may not do things in the correct order to prevent the bugs. I have never encountered a message to say that I am doing things wrong, so I have to believe that I have encountered bugs.

I think this group has tiddlywiki users of all levels. I think we are all learning constantly. Get new ideas and so on.
I would also think that most users have felt frustrated at times, I know I have. A little thing is bothering you, you try and try but nothing seems to do the trick. If you followed this group you would often see users asking a question and short after giving the answer themselves.
We do not get messages telling us things are wrong (except of course java script warning). Your TW just does not work as you would want it to.

My current missive concerns a bug in 5.14. I have a number of files that use TiddlyWiki 5. I was updating one, when I decided to upgrade it to the latest version. Accordingly I used the upgrader to upgrade the file. I did this a number of times as there were problems with the final result. The upgrade failed in one of two ways, either the document presented correctly, but none of the menus, buttons etc worked. Or the upgraded document had two menus, ( the section on the right which controls TiddlyWiki) overlaying each other.

Did you check for overwritten shadows tiddlers?
Also did you consider sharing a link to a public version of your tiddlywiki. Lots of eyes would look at it then, and more eyes catches more errors
 

I gave up at that point and decided to recreate my document (luckily it was short), from scratch in an empty TW5. I did this and again there was a bug, a different one this time! Presumably, to make life interesting. On this occasion, I had two documents one after another in the file. The edited file and original empty file.

No one likes bugs. If you found a bug it would be important to share with this group in the hope of finding it and hopefully a solution from one of the developing members.
 

TiddlyWiki is a very good idea, but unless these bugs can be squashed in a timely manner I shall have to, reluctantly, give up using it. I am wasting too much time trying to get and keep a clean un-corrupted document.

It is clear that you have had a bad experience. Would you consider sharing a link to your tiddlywiki giving others the chance to find the reason.

I hope you find what you are looking for tiddlywiki or otherwise. But I also recall myself being rather dragged into using Tiddlywiki Classic many years ago. To be honest I was curious but it was a relationship of first dragging my feet, then love/hate - until about 6 months later = total addiction to this day ;-)

Only you are able to decide what will be the best choice for you,
Birthe

[Mark S.]

Did your original files have any plugins or other core-level changes? That might explain your problems. Also, you don't mention your browser or operating system. It's been a long time since I've encountered a full-blown bug in TW5, but I used to get the red screen all of the time in Pale Moon.

Remember the prime directive of TW5, aka The First Rule of Using TiddlyWiki

Good luck,
Mark

[Tristan Kohl]

My current missive concerns a bug in 5.14. I have a number of files that use TiddlyWiki 5. I was updating one, when I decided to upgrade it to the latest version. Accordingly I used the upgrader to upgrade the file. I did this a number of times as there were problems with the final result. The upgrade failed in one of two ways, either the document presented correctly, but none of the menus, buttons etc worked. Or the upgraded document had two menus, ( the section on the right which controls TiddlyWiki) overlaying each other.

I gave up at that point and decided to recreate my document (luckily it was short), from scratch in an empty TW5. I did this and again there was a bug, a different one this time! Presumably, to make life interesting. On this occasion, I had two documents one after another in the file. The edited file and original empty file.

Well, this sounds like a problem I had in the beginnings of my TW experiences. Did you use the browsers "Save as..." and not the TW mechanism to save your file (Firefox addon, etc.)? I got my first two or three runs corrupted that way and the results looked very similar to what you describe.

Cheers

[ste...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, June 17, 2017 at 10:11:39 AM UTC+2, Tristan Kohl wrote:

Well, this sounds like a problem I had in the beginnings of my TW experiences. Did you use the browsers "Save as..." and not the TW mechanism to save your file (Firefox addon, etc.)? 

I second this. Saving your TW through the built-in saving mechanism of the browser almost always leads to an unusable file, even if the results can vary considerably. I tried this out myself this morning. Once, when I added two new tiddlers to my wiki and saved it via the browser, I got two overlapping sidebars as well. 

Bottom line: Always save your TW via the red checkmark in the wiki itself or through any other "official" saving mechanism.

Cheers,

Stef

[Richard Evans]

Yes, after a night of bad sleep, I remembered a comment about that I had read years ago. So I checked it out this morning and that was the reason for the problem, when I recreated my tiddlyWiki from new. But that does not address the question of the problems when I upgraded. I did not use FireFox's Save Page then.

[Richard Evans]

In the GettingStarted tiddler of the TIddlyWikion the website there is an algorithm for saving the file under Firefox. I have a couple of comments about it.

The note of not using Firefox's Save Page function should be given more prominence. Instead of tucking it away after the algorithm, where people who think they know what they are doing (me), do not read that far. It should be included as a note within the algorrithm.

In para 7 it says:

"Click OK in response to the prompt from TiddlyFox that asks whether to enable saving for this file"

This has never, I repeat never, happened to me. You have to click on the TiddlyFox Add On icon in the menu and explicitly Enable Saving.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Richard

I think you got caught between versions of TiddlyFox. Firefox makes it difficult because it keeps changing the way it works. The latest TiddlyFox version DOES put a big sign up that you need to do something. Some interim versions didn't. More info here & a link for the latest: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/tiddlywiki/bU2fnqAxKUA/K86F8bRRBwAJ

Best wishes
Josiah

[Mat]

@Richard

Really good you're reporting, especially about such fundamental stuff as installing/upgrading. TW really needs all the help we can get with documentation so it would be terrific if you could formulate the instructions the way you feel they should be formulated. For it to make it to tiddlywiki.com it has to be precisely formulated (as opposed to general notes about the text). You have valuable thoughts so please help along! You can even post it here (in wikitext markup) and it will most likely be picked up.

<:-)

[Richard Evans]

Yes, as you say there is a later version 2.0.2. But unless you have the developer version of Firefox and have explicitly downloaded and installed it. You do not get the big sign! Documenting things before they are available to the public, just adds to my irritation with TiddlyWiki.

[Richard Evans]

Thank you Mat, but as for me providing the documentation as you suggest, I am a novice with TiddlyWiki, I do not feel qualified to provide it's documentation. Perhaps your request throws some light on why the documentation is so poor. You get the novices to write it.

As for helping, I have ME, I am restricted to about 1/2 to 1 hour a day on the computer, (I get too tired for more). I do not have the time to waste on getting involved in TiddlyWiki.

[A M Alfaro]

I had to look up ME and then realized I know it by it's original name: chronic fatigue syndrome. An ex of mine had it and it was extremely debilitating. For everyone else unfamiliar with the disease, imagine the most strenuous workout you've ever had and the tiredness/soreness/fatigue which followed. Then multiply that until you are so sore and tired, physically and mentally, that getting from the bed to the couch feels like an insurmountable task for which you should be awarded a Nobel prize because now you'll be lucky if you can make it back to bed in an hour. Every activity comes with a cost/risk analysis to decide if it's worth the effects that will follow in the coming days. Because no matter what, there is always a price to pay for the simplest exertions. I know some people want to say "oh well if it's just tiredness from exertion, then what's the big deal?", but it's a compounding disease meaning the more you do, the more you are affected. I could go on but I'm going to stop here.

So I understand your frustration Richard. Tiddlywiki 5 is definitely not at a point which I would recommend to someone with limited resources. Maybe classic tiddlywiki since it already has so much built for it. The major problem with it is the increasing difficulty of saving it via the three major browsers. Which is the reason that TW5 has been released in it's current state. I would recommend using TWC either with TiddlyDesktop or in FireFox with the TiddlyFox extension installed. I use FF w/TF at home for my TWC files and have had no issues so far. If you go to tiddlyspot.com you'll find a few flavors of TWC which may already be set up to meet your needs. I've also made a list of oft-returned to TWC plugin repositories in one of my own wikis at ama.bookmarks.tiddlyspot.com.

I really hope you won't abandon Tiddlywiki entirely, but I know you need to use the tools best suited to your situation.

Take care,

ama

[@TiddlyTweeter]

this thread has been interesting. not least by an idea we are culpable of the sin of not doing the best. But that is not so.

I can match Richards' ME and more with my MS, which is far, far worse.

Its beside the point to try make an app optimal for a disabled condition UNLESS you have an explicit SOLVABLE aim. As far as I can see the ONLY really useful adaptations on-line for disability so far are around COLOUR vision.

I don't see anyone making an MS (multiple sclerosis) or ME (chronic fatigue syndrome) specific solution yet. Or likely ever to.

TBH I do NOT think my problem (with MS) should EVER be your problem. In fact I really should never have mentioned it. I'm only doing it in the context of this thread.

Nor do I think that someone with ME is any special case. They came into this as an adult. If they can't find their way around its PART OF THEIR MANAGEMENT ISSUE.

Life is shit. But let's be okay with what we have. MOST of it is nothing to do with TiddlyWiki.

Best wishes
Josiah