A google group for TiddlyWiki Classic
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Yakov
Jun 2, 2017, 2:13:22 PM6/2/17
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Hi guys,
if you, like me, are missing a place to discuss TiddlyWiki Classic (2.x.x), to read about or share new stuff etc, I invite you to the new group [1] initially created by Tobias. I have many new plugins to release and I have already created a couple of posts there and will probably create a list of projects to understand what's interesting for you. I'll probably need some assistance with moderation since I haven't lead an open google group before, so any help with that is very welcome.
Best regards,
Yakov.
[1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/tiddlywikiclassic
if you, like me, are missing a place to discuss TiddlyWiki Classic (2.x.x), to read about or share new stuff etc, I invite you to the new group [1] initially created by Tobias. I have many new plugins to release and I have already created a couple of posts there and will probably create a list of projects to understand what's interesting for you. I'll probably need some assistance with moderation since I haven't lead an open google group before, so any help with that is very welcome.
Best regards,
Yakov.
[1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/tiddlywikiclassic
Arlen Beiler
Jun 2, 2017, 2:21:40 PM6/2/17
to TiddlyWiki
Great! I think this is really a step forward for TiddlyWiki Classic.
I'm surprised you didn't decide to move to Reddit :)
-Arlen
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Dragon Cotterill
Jun 2, 2017, 3:45:54 PM6/2/17
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There is nothing wrong with discussing Classic here on this group. Surely it muddies the waters as now the information pertaining to TWC is going to be spread out rather than contained.
Yakov
Jun 3, 2017, 4:06:50 AM6/3/17
to TiddlyWiki
There is nothing wrong with discussing Classic here on this group. Surely it muddies the waters as now the information pertaining to TWC is going to be spread out rather than contained.
Yeap, and that's a problem, there's way too much threads about TW5 and if I don't check the group for some time, it's quite difficult to review the new threads about TWc I've missed.
I'm surprised you didn't decide to move to Reddit :)
Never thought about that (never used Reddit, actually). What are the pros?
Danielo Rodríguez
Jun 3, 2017, 6:15:23 AM6/3/17
to TiddlyWiki
If you are going to start something apart of this group ... Please don't use another group, use a different tool
Jeremy Ruston
Jun 3, 2017, 1:01:39 PM6/3/17
to tiddl...@googlegroups.com
Hi Yakov
Many thanks for your continued enthusiasm for TWC; I’m very happy to see it continue to thrive. In particular, part of the proposition of TiddlyWiki has always been the fact that it is relatively future proof, and TWC still working for people after 12 years is a pretty good advertisement for it. That is why I try hard to make sure that new stuff like TiddlyFox and TiddlyDesktop support TWC.
If it makes sense for the people concerned I’m happy with the idea of TWC stuff to another discussion group. As a practical consideration, I suspect that quite a few people may accidentally post to the wrong group but that’s relatively easy to fix.
In terms of moving to a different platform for the discussion forum, I think it makes sense to keep all the TiddlyWiki groups together. If we’re going to move, let’s move them all. A piecemeal move is liable to make the community feel even more spread out.
Once we’ve considered any further feedback I guess the next step would be to update the Google Groups introduction message for the TW and TWDev groups, adding a pointer to the TWC group.
Best wishes
Jeremy
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 11:15, Danielo Rodríguez <rdan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you are going to start something apart of this group ... Please don't use another group, use a different tool
>
Many thanks for your continued enthusiasm for TWC; I’m very happy to see it continue to thrive. In particular, part of the proposition of TiddlyWiki has always been the fact that it is relatively future proof, and TWC still working for people after 12 years is a pretty good advertisement for it. That is why I try hard to make sure that new stuff like TiddlyFox and TiddlyDesktop support TWC.
If it makes sense for the people concerned I’m happy with the idea of TWC stuff to another discussion group. As a practical consideration, I suspect that quite a few people may accidentally post to the wrong group but that’s relatively easy to fix.
In terms of moving to a different platform for the discussion forum, I think it makes sense to keep all the TiddlyWiki groups together. If we’re going to move, let’s move them all. A piecemeal move is liable to make the community feel even more spread out.
Once we’ve considered any further feedback I guess the next step would be to update the Google Groups introduction message for the TW and TWDev groups, adding a pointer to the TWC group.
Best wishes
Jeremy
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 11:15, Danielo Rodríguez <rdan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you are going to start something apart of this group ... Please don't use another group, use a different tool
>
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@TiddlyTweeter
Jun 3, 2017, 2:42:24 PM6/3/17
to TiddlyWiki
Ciao Danielo
Do you mean "Don't use Google Groups"? If so I totally agree. Its fine for ongoing discussion. But as an archive format its the worst. You lose your own history. Its search mechanism is crap. It upvoting non-existent. Its tag system (even if you bothered to activate it) so crude its useless.
Josiah
Do you mean "Don't use Google Groups"? If so I totally agree. Its fine for ongoing discussion. But as an archive format its the worst. You lose your own history. Its search mechanism is crap. It upvoting non-existent. Its tag system (even if you bothered to activate it) so crude its useless.
Josiah
@TiddlyTweeter
Jun 3, 2017, 2:52:19 PM6/3/17
to TiddlyWiki
Ciao Yakov
Recently I got interested in TWC, even though I have not used it yet. But its PERFORMANCE looks stunning.
Josiah
Recently I got interested in TWC, even though I have not used it yet. But its PERFORMANCE looks stunning.
Josiah
Yakov
Jun 5, 2017, 5:38:53 AM6/5/17
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Danielo, please specify what do you mean? If you suggest that google groups is a not-good-enoug tool than what do you suggest as a better one?
Hello Jeremy. Speaking of TiddlyFox, what's the best place to discuss future development now? I've voiced a concern about Addons support discontinuation [1] and also asked about support of async saving somewhere but didn't get any responses yet. Also, to adapt TiddlyChrome for TWc [2] I need some help to understand how TiddlyFox works as I've never developed a FF addon nor a Chrome extension. Finally, MicroTiddlyServer [3] may be a candidate for [4] but it's important to a) understand the basic requirements (for instance, interfaces of MTS do not look great yet) and b) understand how TW5 is saved to adapt MTS for it as well.
I'd be happy if the header of the main group has a link to the TWc group, and probably the header of TWc group should be updated accordingly. Despite the fact I was mostly silent for more than one year (PhD thesis, than a new cool job in ChildrenScience.ru that absorbs much time, but actually TW is used in couple of places "in production" [5,6, in Russian unfortunately]), I've keep deleloping new tools (TW plugins, including plotting, graph drawing, crypto tools, bibliographic references and even very early prototypes of sketch/SVG editor and WYSIWYG and many "smaller" tools) and is rather eager to share new stuff with the community, but needed a place where posts about TWc are more condensed, new stuff is not lost that quickly because of posts about TW5.
As for the topics that are related to both TW5 and TWc, I think a natural approach would be to post main discussions threads here and post a link to such a thread as a thread in the TWc group so that the discussion is not split; but of'course this still has a drawback that somebody has to find such a thread here and post a link. A nicer approach would be if the discussion tool has some sort of tags so that somebody can read threads tagged TW5, somebody – TWc, somebody – both and the posts can also have any combination of those; but in that case everybody has to tag their posts and ideally tags should be suggested automatically (like in StackOverflow). But I'm not aware if such a discussion platform exists.
Best regards,
Yakov.
[1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywikidev/VqvGlnrfLjE
[2] https://github.com/Arlen22/tiddly-chrome-app/issues/12
[3] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywikiclassic/Eb48yQBof5c
[4] https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/php-server
[5] http://do.sch-int.ru/
[6] http://childrenscience.ru/courses/
суббота, 3 июня 2017 г., 21:42:24 UTC+3 пользователь @TiddlyTweeter написал:
Hello Jeremy. Speaking of TiddlyFox, what's the best place to discuss future development now? I've voiced a concern about Addons support discontinuation [1] and also asked about support of async saving somewhere but didn't get any responses yet. Also, to adapt TiddlyChrome for TWc [2] I need some help to understand how TiddlyFox works as I've never developed a FF addon nor a Chrome extension. Finally, MicroTiddlyServer [3] may be a candidate for [4] but it's important to a) understand the basic requirements (for instance, interfaces of MTS do not look great yet) and b) understand how TW5 is saved to adapt MTS for it as well.
I'd be happy if the header of the main group has a link to the TWc group, and probably the header of TWc group should be updated accordingly. Despite the fact I was mostly silent for more than one year (PhD thesis, than a new cool job in ChildrenScience.ru that absorbs much time, but actually TW is used in couple of places "in production" [5,6, in Russian unfortunately]), I've keep deleloping new tools (TW plugins, including plotting, graph drawing, crypto tools, bibliographic references and even very early prototypes of sketch/SVG editor and WYSIWYG and many "smaller" tools) and is rather eager to share new stuff with the community, but needed a place where posts about TWc are more condensed, new stuff is not lost that quickly because of posts about TW5.
As for the topics that are related to both TW5 and TWc, I think a natural approach would be to post main discussions threads here and post a link to such a thread as a thread in the TWc group so that the discussion is not split; but of'course this still has a drawback that somebody has to find such a thread here and post a link. A nicer approach would be if the discussion tool has some sort of tags so that somebody can read threads tagged TW5, somebody – TWc, somebody – both and the posts can also have any combination of those; but in that case everybody has to tag their posts and ideally tags should be suggested automatically (like in StackOverflow). But I'm not aware if such a discussion platform exists.
Best regards,
Yakov.
[1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywikidev/VqvGlnrfLjE
[2] https://github.com/Arlen22/tiddly-chrome-app/issues/12
[3] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywikiclassic/Eb48yQBof5c
[4] https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/php-server
[5] http://do.sch-int.ru/
[6] http://childrenscience.ru/courses/
суббота, 3 июня 2017 г., 21:42:24 UTC+3 пользователь @TiddlyTweeter написал:
@TiddlyTweeter
Jun 5, 2017, 6:12:49 AM6/5/17
to TiddlyWiki
Ciao Yakov
I'll hop in on part of this since I know a bit about it.
Best wishes
Josiah
I'll hop in on part of this since I know a bit about it.
Best wishes
Josiah
On Monday, 5 June 2017 11:38:53 UTC+2, Yakov wrote:
If you suggest that google groups is a not-good-enoug tool than what do you suggest as a better one?
Most any other forum :-). Two things GoogleGroups is good for is (1) being able to use it via email as well as on web; (2) immediate, in process discussions. For everything else its awful. No up-voting (i.e. public favouriting). Awful search mechanism, which means you quickly lose history. Shoddy pin mechanism.
Reddit is one kind of alternative that might suit your purposes, take a look, since it allows supplementary wikis that can gather and list resources. StackOverflow is excellent BUT if your numbers are low it can make life hard having to meet their targets to get fully up and running.
Speaking of TiddlyFox, what's the best place to discuss future development now?
Here: https://github.com/TiddlyWiki/TiddlyFox
A nicer approach would be if the discussion tool has some sort of tags so that somebody can read threads tagged TW5 --- but in that case everybody has to tag their posts
FWIW, Google Groups actually has both "category" & "tagging" mechanisms. They are set to be obligatory. Somewhat crude, but kinda work. BUT I don't know how you would get that to work for email subscribers.
@TiddlyTweeter
Jun 5, 2017, 6:28:38 AM6/5/17
to TiddlyWiki
Yakov
Further to my last comment I want to add one point that may be relevant ...
TRAFFIC. If the anticipated traffic is likely to be low (e.g. a couple of threads a week, rather than 5+ a day) Google Groups may be good enough. The essential issue with GG comes to this: simply scrolling down a list of the threads can you find what you need? If the volume is low its more likely you won't hit the "history problem" with not being able to find anything.
For instance, the Groups for TWMobile & the recent Quine that's replacing it, works well enough because the traffic is LOW.
Best wishes
Josiah
Further to my last comment I want to add one point that may be relevant ...
TRAFFIC. If the anticipated traffic is likely to be low (e.g. a couple of threads a week, rather than 5+ a day) Google Groups may be good enough. The essential issue with GG comes to this: simply scrolling down a list of the threads can you find what you need? If the volume is low its more likely you won't hit the "history problem" with not being able to find anything.
For instance, the Groups for TWMobile & the recent Quine that's replacing it, works well enough because the traffic is LOW.
Best wishes
Josiah
Danielo Rodríguez
Jun 5, 2017, 8:15:13 AM6/5/17
to TiddlyWiki
There is a proposal for creating a new stackOverflow like site for tiddlywiki:
Please go there and vote the three questions you find more useful with an score of 9 or less. We need as much questions as possible with an score of at least 10.
Then a new site for tiddlywiki will be created. This includes lots of cool features like tags, upvoting, short answers by better description, mechanism to avoid publishing duplicated questions, revisions history of questions... I think that TWC and TW5 can live together there thanks to tags.
@TiddlyTweeter
Jun 5, 2017, 8:24:04 AM6/5/17
to TiddlyWiki
Daniello, I agree with you. I think the issue with getting stackOverflow thing working well is simply lack of numbers, NOT lack of will. TW Google Group is very active but with low numbers of active people and members relative to StackOverflow style groups. I think that is the main barrier and why its taking so long.
My 2 cents
Josiah
My 2 cents
Josiah
Danielo Rodríguez wrote:
There is a proposal for creating a new stackOverflow like site for tiddlywiki:
I think that TWC and TW5 can live together there thanks to tags.
Mark S.
Jun 5, 2017, 9:57:27 AM6/5/17
to TiddlyWiki
My attempts to set up registration via site 51 page crashes with a big screen dump of open id error messages.
Mark
Mark
Arlen Beiler
Jun 5, 2017, 10:10:23 AM6/5/17
to TiddlyWiki
I would be happy to move everything to Reddit right now, and then if the Stack Exchange site gets up and running, we can start using that for those kinds of questions, but that isn't the only kind of questions on here, so I don't think we need to wait for it.
On Sat, Jun 3, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Jeremy Ruston <jeremy...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Yakov
Many thanks for your continued enthusiasm for TWC; I’m very happy to see it continue to thrive. In particular, part of the proposition of TiddlyWiki has always been the fact that it is relatively future proof, and TWC still working for people after 12 years is a pretty good advertisement for it. That is why I try hard to make sure that new stuff like TiddlyFox and TiddlyDesktop support TWC.
If it makes sense for the people concerned I’m happy with the idea of TWC stuff to another discussion group. As a practical consideration, I suspect that quite a few people may accidentally post to the wrong group but that’s relatively easy to fix.
In terms of moving to a different platform for the discussion forum, I think it makes sense to keep all the TiddlyWiki groups together. If we’re going to move, let’s move them all. A piecemeal move is liable to make the community feel even more spread out.
Once we’ve considered any further feedback I guess the next step would be to update the Google Groups introduction message for the TW and TWDev groups, adding a pointer to the TWC group.
Best wishes
Jeremy
> On 3 Jun 2017, at 11:15, Danielo Rodríguez <rdan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If you are going to start something apart of this group ... Please don't use another group, use a different tool
>
> --
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Yakov
Jun 19, 2017, 8:21:35 AM6/19/17
to TiddlyWiki
Hi guys,
I agree that google groups have a bad serach engine, although it didn't hurt me too much. They also lack upvoting/survey system which would be helpful but rarely that important as far as I can remember the days when I looked through messages in this group regularly and didn't miss almost anything. What are the scenarios when the lack of these features really concern you?
StackExchange is definitely a nice option, I've already committed during the current commit phase, but SE is not a general-purpose tool, it's not a place to discuss concepts, release new extensions etc.
The main other candidate is Reddit, if I haven't missed anything. I'm not familiar with it at all, could you describe what can be done there.. a subreddit? May be there's some nice introductory video?
My current plan is to release extensions (I've got quite a number of them) and post about them in the new google group and help others if somebody posts some "help me" thread. Quite probably I'll be out of reach since 20 of June till 3 of July, so if somebody helps me by becoming a moderator (to allow non-spam first posts), I'll be thankful. I'd like to post a (short?)list of my projects there to hear what's interesting for others (what should I release first) and hence allowing first posts is important. Or I'll just post that after 3 of July to avoid any confusion.
Best regards,
Yakov.
понедельник, 5 июня 2017 г., 16:57:27 UTC+3 пользователь Mark S. написал:
I agree that google groups have a bad serach engine, although it didn't hurt me too much. They also lack upvoting/survey system which would be helpful but rarely that important as far as I can remember the days when I looked through messages in this group regularly and didn't miss almost anything. What are the scenarios when the lack of these features really concern you?
StackExchange is definitely a nice option, I've already committed during the current commit phase, but SE is not a general-purpose tool, it's not a place to discuss concepts, release new extensions etc.
The main other candidate is Reddit, if I haven't missed anything. I'm not familiar with it at all, could you describe what can be done there.. a subreddit? May be there's some nice introductory video?
My current plan is to release extensions (I've got quite a number of them) and post about them in the new google group and help others if somebody posts some "help me" thread. Quite probably I'll be out of reach since 20 of June till 3 of July, so if somebody helps me by becoming a moderator (to allow non-spam first posts), I'll be thankful. I'd like to post a (short?)list of my projects there to hear what's interesting for others (what should I release first) and hence allowing first posts is important. Or I'll just post that after 3 of July to avoid any confusion.
Best regards,
Yakov.
понедельник, 5 июня 2017 г., 16:57:27 UTC+3 пользователь Mark S. написал:
Ste Wilson
Jun 19, 2017, 9:25:16 AM6/19/17
to TiddlyWiki
There is a sub Reddit up and running https://www.reddit.com/r/TiddlyWiki5/
Riz did the leg work for it and then we all promptly ignored it and carried on here. (what's happened to Riz anyway?)
Stephen
Yakov
Jul 10, 2017, 1:57:38 PM7/10/17
to TiddlyWiki
Ok, since there's no strong objections against using the group, I've posted [1] the first bunch of extensions that I can release and probably update if needed, so those who still use TWc or those who just miss some stuff in TW are welcome to check it out. I'll post some more stuff later, probably this week.
Jeremy, so what do you think about adding a link to the TiddlyWikiClassic group in the TiddlyWiki group header? I'm also open to proposals of the TiddlyWikiClassic group header.
Best regards,
Yakov.
[1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywikiclassic/gGDOHuiePW0
понедельник, 19 июня 2017 г., 16:25:16 UTC+3 пользователь Ste Wilson написал:
Jeremy, so what do you think about adding a link to the TiddlyWikiClassic group in the TiddlyWiki group header? I'm also open to proposals of the TiddlyWikiClassic group header.
Best regards,
Yakov.
[1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywikiclassic/gGDOHuiePW0
понедельник, 19 июня 2017 г., 16:25:16 UTC+3 пользователь Ste Wilson написал:
Jeremy Ruston
Jul 10, 2017, 2:41:48 PM7/10/17
to TiddlyWiki
Hi Yakov
I've updated the Google Groups header for this group to read:
Welcome to the TiddlyWiki 5 discussion group for end users. Feel free to ask questions - we welcome newcomers, and are eager to help everyone get the best out of TiddlyWiki 5.
- We're moving discussions about the older version 2.x.x of TiddlyWiki to the TiddlyWikiClassic group
- See the TiddlyWikiDev group for technical questions about JavaScript, CSS etc.
- See the TiddlyWikiDocs group for discussions about improving the documentation.
- An enhanced group search facility is available via mail-archive.com
- Please remember that people reading your post via email won't see any edits you make after posting; it's usually best to make a follow up post if you have substantive comments to add or correct.
Some equivalent text that you could use for the TiddlyWiki Classic group:
Welcome to the TiddlyWiki Classic (version 2.x.x) discussion group for end users. Feel free to ask questions - we welcome newcomers, and are eager to help everyone get the best out of TiddlyWiki Classic.
- See the TiddlyWiki group for discussions about the new TiddlyWiki 5
- An enhanced group search facility is available via mail-archive.com
- Please remember that people reading your post via email won't see any edits you make after posting; it's usually best to make a follow up post if you have substantive comments to add or correct.
Many thanks for your continued support of TWC,
Best wishes
Jeremy.
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