link in a documentation macro doesn't show up as a reference

[Alex Hough]

TiddlyWikers,

When you create a link in a documentation macro, that link doesn't show up as a reference.

I've started to adapt the documentation macros for my own use, it would be handy if they created a reference in the linked-to tiddler

Alex

[PMario]

On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 9:45:52 AM UTC+2, AlexHough wrote:

When you create a link in a documentation macro, that link doesn't show up as a reference.

That's right. The reference mechanism parses the tiddler source (one level deep) and looks for a "type: link" combination in the AST, produced by [[link-syntax]]

Since a macro call isn't a link, it isn't seen. .. That's "kind of" desired behaviour, since link-references should show up in tiddlers that define the link and not where they are eg: transcluded. ...

But IMO they main reason is performance. ... If you would search deeper it would be incredibly slow and recursion problems will come up immediately.

 

I've started to adapt the documentation macros for my own use, it would be handy if they created a reference in the linked-to tiddler

What do you try to achieve?

-m

[Alex Hough]

Hi Mario,

The use case is to annotate text. I adapted the .tip core macro by changing the image to a sheep. The sheep then becomes a character with her own perspective on the text.

I've borrowed the idea from Douglas Hofstader and Stafford Beer. Both have used the technique of including a dialogue at the end of chapters in one of their books.

(I choose a sheep because of Dolly the sheep, the famous cloned sheep. I wondered what a clone-centric would look like in the context of TW! I am an artist by training, this is the kind of thing we are allowed to do?

I started to develop a clone-centric TW, (SheepyWiki?)

I found made a drag-to-clone button. I drag a link or title as link into the sheep and it clones the tiddler. I am shifting the metaphor from little fish in a stream sheep in a landscape. Part of me was thinking by making TW easier to understand, part of me was thinking about creating cartoon type stories where sheep talk for my children.

The use case emerged when I cloned a tiddler, then wanted to annotate a trimmed version of the text. I put the trimmed text into the sheep macro then added double brackets to produce missing links. Then, from the preview window I create the new tiddler, without changing the title (pretty links to create a capital). From this tiddler there is no reference connection back to the tiddler with the macro.

I was thinking of using the newly created tiddlers (from the sheep macro) as the starting point for a narrative. The tiddler could be tagged in such a way to hide the title, it could feature the sheep making a comment which expaned on the title of that tiddler. It sounds longwinded and complex, but in terms of annotating a text I found it to be a natural and quick process. A visual language was emerging where different voices annotating the text could be easily produced.

To make a story, you could create an outline and a metastory then create annotations by cloning and making links from except of the text.

The whole system falls down when the link from the macro doesn't create a backlink.

I hope that makes sense. I will try and create a MTC..

Alex

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[PMario]

On Thursday, October 19, 2017 at 5:11:55 PM UTC+2, AlexHough wrote:

The use case is to annotate text. I adapted the .tip core macro by changing the image to a sheep. The sheep then becomes a character with her own perspective on the text.

I like this idea. I'm a "visual type" too :)

 

The whole system falls down when the link from the macro doesn't create a backlink.

I hope that makes sense. I will try and create a MTC..

That would be nice. ... I think I got the idea from your story, but an MTC would make it easier.

I did provide a small bundle for an other thread and some info about the uni-link plugin. ... May be if we get the "aliasing" thing right, so that it also produces backlinks this may be a possibility. .. But I'm not really sure !!

 

have fun!

mario

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Alex,

Will you publicly show the Sheep Macro in an exhibition?

Josiah, x

AlexHough wrote:

The use case is to annotate text. I adapted the .tip core macro by changing the image to a sheep. The sheep then becomes a character with her own perspective on the text.

 

... I started to develop a clone-centric TW, (SheepyWiki?)

 

 ... part of me was thinking about creating cartoon type stories where sheep talk for my children.

 

... I put the trimmed text into the sheep macro then added double brackets to produce missing links.

 

... The tiddler could be tagged in such a way to hide the title, it could feature the sheep making a comment which expanded on the title of that tiddler.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Alex

I appreciate your art-take. I particularly liked the sheep :-)

One thing I find interesting in TW is the role of LATENCY. In Bach's Italian Concerto (BWV 971), especially the second movement, the role of latency makes all the difference to the resultant different interpretations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyO6JD3q7zE (Tatiana Nikolayeva, piano)

In TW there is a strong visual homology to that kind of aural latency. The issue being the point of emergence of (extanting) structuration from a liminal emergent pool  enstructuring itself.

What interested me was your explicit invention of a "guidus colloquia"--a Dolly clone. The problem with fragment-to-whole-formation is how do you form the whole sense of the whole prior to having it formed?

I don't think this is a trivial issue.

Rather, that edge is most interesting for the implicit creativity that must function to bring it off.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Alex Hough]

Ok....  here we are

Its should be self- explanatory. Its a series of TW each downloaded and edited a bit.

Its a wooly thread, it gets there in the end, just playing to learn.

https://alexhough.github.io/SheepyWiki1

https://alexhough.github.io/SheepyWiki2

https://alexhough.github.io/SheepyWiki3

https://alexhough.github.io/SheepyWiki4

Alex

On 21 October 2017 at 09:58, @TiddlyTweeter <tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

Ciao Alex

I appreciate your art-take. I particularly liked the sheep :-)

One thing I find interesting in TW is the role of LATENCY. In Bach's Italian Concerto (BWV 971), especially the second movement, the role of latency makes all the difference to the resultant different interpretations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyO6JD3q7zE (Tatiana Nikolayeva, piano)

In TW there is a strong visual homology to that kind of aural latency. The issue being the point of emergence of (extanting) structuration from a liminal emergent pool  enstructuring itself.

What interested me was your explicit invention of a "guidus colloquia"--a Dolly clone. The problem with fragment-to-whole-formation is how to you form the whole sense of the whole prior to having it formed?

I don't think this is a trivial issue.

Rather, that edge is most interesting for the implicit creativity that must function to bring it off.

Best wishes
Josiah

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[Birthe C]

Hi Alex,

Thank you very much for sharing. Interesting tutorial, I think you and your sheep macro could charm anybody into learning and using tiddlywiki. Good idea to introduce the art teacher and the bully, you have matched the fonts perfectly, I could "feel" the types.

I think I need a sheep macro now, after all my main wiki is about knitting and wool. Lots of yarn and strange patterns there :-D

I would have thought a clone would be exactly the same, but will you believe it, the sheep started speaking danish in my Wiki, "mæh" it said ;-)
I do get your point...Båååååh with that font looks ...well, more sheep like.

You mentioned something about a Christmas story. I remember to have seen an avid knitter who had an animated icon. Old lady knits with wool directly taken of the sheep. Sheep gets more and more naked and freezing as we get closer to Christmas. When Christmas comes it turns out that the knitting was a sweater for her husband, but one sleeve is short, the other very long. Sweater far too big and especially too long. Husband have to try the sweater on (he would not dare not to), falls in the long sweater and gets strangulated in the long sleeve.
THE END.


Birthe

[Alex Hough]

I thought you'd like it Birthe! Thanks for the inspiration!

I started with the intention to make my sheep use those curious characters in the Danish alphabet and to be a kind of "lost sheep" --a Danish sheep in an Englishmans Wiki. 

Next I am thinking of adding some Russian dolls: https://thenounproject.com/olesyakozlova/collection/matrioshka/?oq=russian%20doll&cidx=1 , also a very "cloney" object.

An interesting side effect for me in this process: putting the wiki into an empty landscape metaphor somehow makes it more dreamy. If I could further amplify the sense of "thinking while walking in the hills" I would be happy. I am not sure how this might transfer into the minds of others, but I guess this is the joy of TiddlyWiki. You can develop you own "ideascapes" to create the opportunities for alternative perspectives to come into being.

Alex

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[Alex Hough]

This has evolved into SheepyWiki: https://alexhough.github.io/SheepyWiki6.html

Alex

[Thomas Elmiger]

Hi Alex,
very nice indeed! Feel free to steel some German characters for your sheep: Määääh!

(By the way: «Mäh» sounds a bit like the word for mowing or it’s imperative mow!)

Talking about sounds: Hearing a sheep talking about “butchering” sounds a bit macabre to my ears ;–)

Now I will go and count sheep. Goodnight!
Thomas

[Alex Hough]

Hi Thomas,

thanks for the response. Could I include it in the next edition of  SheepyWiki? It may evolve into a kind of Fanzine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanzine

Yes.. "butchering" ... i did dwell over the choice of that word!  The intention was to get into the character of the sheep. By making her aware of the world of butchery hoped to bring an existential aspect to her personality. I thought that she would see cutting things up primarily in terms of butchery and slaughter. Her existence is --after all -- is to produce lamb for the table.

There is a get out! Its all in the context: The sheep is an electric cloned sheep, and the text is part of her dream! ha ha!

There's also a growing critique of the role of sheep in the landscape, the term SheepWreck is use by environmentalist George Monbiot: -- http://www.monbiot.com/2013/05/30/sheepwrecked/ . Is it worth the sheep existing at all? 

Granting the "sheep avatar" a level of consciousness allows the writer to enter certain discourses in a playful manner. 

BTW if anyone wants to use the character to write a sketch for SheepyWiki we (me and the sheep!) would be over the moon!

I have been thinking that a form, a kind of animated post card. Simultaneously nostalgic and futuristic.  Marshall McLuhan had a theory -- i think! -- where a new medium such as TV was understood as a development from an older medium like film. 

In TiddlyWiki we have a media which we understand as a development of the wiki, a small wiki. We have "Tiddlers".... and then we have our own technical language -- a meta language -- to talk about TiddlyWiki itself. I think that the words TiddlyWiki and Tiddler are a great part off the design. It makes it easy to separate the content of the text from the technicalities associated with the presentation of the text. " is better to be confusingly distinctive than confusingly generic"

A tiddler is also analogous to a index card. It could quite easily be a post card, evoking a type of text and sentiments associated with sending post-cards: a message from a far away place, a place with an appearance worth sharing. The poster of the card wants to share a view and a message from that place.

I was thinking about those type of animate picture you sometimes see in Indian restaurants. There is one in my local Turkish supermarket. There is a picture, a kind of light box. Its back lit and there is some kind of mechanism which makes the water look like it is moving. I haven't a clue what they are called!

Actually... the more I think about it, the tiddler as post-card metaphor might be better developed as a "child" of those "3D" view finders you can buy in places like the Alps (or could do in the 1970s) -- like this thingy --- https://www.image3d.com/retroviewer/home/  

The microfiche viewer is another  old technology visual metaphor I like. It has the back-lit property which the index card doesn't have.

There's something about surface patina I like. When you use a microfiche machine, you get a layer which doesn't move when you scroll. And they have a manual highlighting mechanims, it adds another layer. Its basicaly dust on lenses and lights, but it adds to the feel of the technology.

In the TiddlyWiki community, we sometimes visit the discourse around adoption and how the process is hindered by the word Tiddler. I made a comment about how perhaps non-native English language users warm more to TiddlyWiki because the word does not sound as childish or toylike.

Josiah has made some interesting comments on Twitter about TW as a bricolage tool.  It we see it as a technology for DIY independent creativity and adaption it becomes -- in my mind at least -- something a KraftWork or Joy Division member would be using if they were starting out today. Just as instruments like the Moog started to be used in ways the creator didn't intend, so can TiddlyWiki. Its really a hypertext synthesiser. HTML, JS and CSS are made easier and quicker to use by non-specialists.

Thanks for  Määääh! and «Mäh»! I like those little speach marks too  -- " « » " -- I will have to find a robot mowing machine to accompay the sheep! -- http://www.husqvarna.com/uk/products/robotic-lawn-mowers/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4eXPBRCtARIsADvOjY0BUh_MNU2xKtbx7t2w2qDWitGr3wvwNVBYesXn7CldvhDOecQJNAMaAov4EALw_wcB

Alex

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[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Alex & Thomas

Alex, Yes.. "butchering" ... i did dwell over the choice of that word!  The intention was to get into the character of the sheep. By making her aware of the world of butchery hoped to bring an existential aspect to her personality. I thought that she would see cutting things up primarily in terms of butchery and slaughter. Her existence is --after all -- is to produce lamb for the table.

Regarding "BUTCHERY"

... a cognisant Dolly on a British Landscape would be aware of common English phrases about PASSIVITY like ...

• Like a lamb to the slaughter

• As meek as a lamb

• To look sheepish

• Like a flock of sheep

All reflected in Isaiah Berlin's famous ...

Freedom for the wolves has often meant death to the sheep.

All indicating acceptance of bad situations Sheepy has no sense of control over.

Regarding the GOODNESS of sheep ... English has ...

• Sort the sheep (good) from the goats (bad).
  

In UK POLITICS one comes upon references to sheep as in Denis Healey's withering use of a biblically inspired metaphor to verbally slaughter Sir Geoffrey Howe's boring presentations in Parliament:

• "Being attacked by him was like being savaged by a dead sheep."

More recently joking themes around sheep have emerged ...

Q: What's a sheep tied to a lamp-post in Cardiff called?
A: A Leisure Centre.

That is a variant on the Welsh as sheep-shaggers motif. Also used for people from New Zealand.

Sheep turn up as background in a lot of British film. THE DRAUGHTMAN'S CONTRACT has a theme tune by Michael Nyman called "Chasing Sheep is Best Left to Shepherds". Its based on a tune derived from Purcell's semi-opera "King Arthur."

BUTCHERY AS ANATOMICAL POETICS

George Stubbs, arguably the greatest painter of horses ever, spent an enormous amount of time studying horses during and after slaughter to understand how their physical bodies worked. Yet , likely because of that, his paintings of horses are accurate beautiful & lyrical.

This process of decomposition of the subject into parts and its re-combination is central to lots of art making.

In the case of Dolly the DNA sequence is equally important to morphology.

Maybe it starts D-O-L-L-Y ...? :-)


DOLLY AS FRANKENSTEIN (FRANKLY-SWEETIE) 

The idea of genetic cloning tends to bring up FRANKENSTEIN themes. Monsters that get out of hand because they are "against nature." But even in the Frankenstein novel the humanity of "the monster" is apparent as much as the irrational hatred of its appearance. YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN gets it humorously.

So there is a strong play on "Identity" when looking at clones. I think movies have been far ahead of social thought on this: A.I., THE MACHINE, EX MACHINA, BLADE RUNNER to name the better known. EXISTENZ by Cronenberg is particularly relevant because it also engage with the issue of virtual worlds and the MERGING of biology with electronics.

Dolly did well on the Frankenstein Stakes because she looked much like and behaved much like a sheep. A somewhat tamer version than found in BLADE RUNNER (based on PK Dick's "DO ANDROID'S DREAM OF ELECTRIC SHEEP?") where the clones ("replicants") are of humans. Blade Runner, the film, goes some way to exploring the existential issues of whether the replicants are actually more human than the humans--the original story goes a lot further.


THE ARTISTIC CUT

Coming back to Alex's comment on butchery ...

... I thought that she would see cutting things up ...

And as he sees Dolly seeing that HE cuts space.

"Butchery" is probably a bit OTT for his manoeuvre but he's definitely CUTTING semantic pieces and assembling into mappable GRIDS. This near universal process of the CUT in art-making can be Conceptual Differentiations or physical assertions (like a brush stroke). It comes about in a different way than the cut in normal programming where logic forces cascade ... i.e. starting point is less elaborated so the Funnel Of Execution can differ.

 
SURFACE PATINA

The materiality of tangible stuff is a million, million miles away still from the false grunge of computer re-representations. They lack texture, odour and kinaesthesia.

In some ways that is Dolly's Dilemma. A once living Sheep reduced to a significant genetic experiment. OR a genetic experiment that became a sentient being?

Though, by the sounds of it, Dolly had a nice Sheepish life with occasional prodding with instruments. And never got served as mutton.

Back to TW. Just some probings ...

• The card idea as POSTCARD.
• The visual "fogging up" of physical borders of Tiddlers
  
• grunge CSS (microfiche approximation)
• music AS Tiddler--how I dunno--its not been done yet.
  

One small point is whether re-edited video might work in places. I was thinking of Vicki Bennet style re-animation from stock footage, e.g. STORY WITHOUT END. If you like the idea let me know and I'm sure I can find sheep ready to edit.

---

Alex

I think the Sheep Theme you started is huge and fascinating. It seems endless with possibilities.

Thanks for starting it and braving putting it out whilst still in process.

I'm really enjoying it & riffling off it & hope some of my thoughts are helpful.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Birthe C]

Hi Joshua,

Interesting. You are clearly inspired and I enjoy reading it. You should consider a sheepywiki clone. It would be great fun if you would share it.
After all you have often mentioned everything passed fast in this group. Dolly the sheep may be a good way of promoting Tiddlywiki.


Birthe

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Birthe

No. This is Alex's work, not mine.

I think his sheep theme is a really good one & want to support it. This post is for that.

Josiah

[Alex Hough]

Hi Birthe,

You or anyone else are /is welcome to clone SheepyWiki.

The ideas is to develop a clone-centric TW and a clone centric way of learning / developing thinking.

here is a new version: https://alexhough.github.io/SheepyWiki7.html#SheepyWiki%20macros

Alex

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[Alex Hough]

Josiah,

Lets use this thread on Google groups as a link into the fanzine idea.

I am thinking about reuse... "reuse and combine" as a process... and process orientation in general 

I think it would be nice to create something which a truely dedicated reader could trace back, the creative process would be easy enough to find. The reader  can work backwards from something simple and immediate (like a fanzine) and then -- if they wish -- add their own collaborations at any point in the history of the text. 

Lets frame it as art and hypertext

Alex

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I'm ready.

Dimmi (tell me) what I need to do.

J.

[Alex Hough]

Josiah,

I am creating a thread on Twitter [1].

I'd like to "weave" a TiddlyZine into this thread. 

I think a twitter thread is an interesting form. Small chunks of information linked together.

A TiddlyZine can cut and paste from Twitter and then be inserted back into the narrative.

Alex

[1] https://twitter.com/100CreweRoad/status/932523076264316928

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[Alex Hough]

Josiah,

below is an image showing a possible form, its here in this thread

Alex

​

https://twitter.com/100CreweRoad/status/933310193915645954