Plugins Group?

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

I know there has been talk of moving away from goolag -- sorry, google -- groups but it's what we have and it's where new users come and other folks are. 

I also know that many have opined the lack of a one-stop-shop/curated list of plugins (TiddlyTweeter being the most vociferous/ardent on the topic, I think -- he's right, IMO, too).

That said...

Why is there not (or is there?) a goolag group for Plugins?  TiddlywikiPlugins?

If it was strictly for plugin announcements (all other kinds of msgs are forcibly removed), wouldn't that be better than the status quo?  If it was very strict, then, hopefully, searching would improve, also.

Thoughts?

Coda

[Mat]

That could be a good interim solution (...no more than 25 years) and I'm surprised nobody has suggested it before.

But if it is strictly for announcements, that would mean one has to post in both groups or people cannot come with input. And, presumably again in both groups for update notices. Not a huge problem but it is an extra step that is not obvious. On the other hand, if announcements only then anyone can make the announcement, not necessarily the plugin creator. Should the creator not be happy with someone elses announcement of his plugin, then I guess he can request deletion in that thread and post a new announcement instead.

Any volunteering moderators? It would be best with several moderators because of the ebb-and-flow type participation people have (including myself). So, if a few more are volunteers then I can be one.

<:-)

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 9:24:16 AM UTC-5, Mat wrote:

That could be a good interim solution (...no more than 25 years) and I'm surprised nobody has suggested it before.

But if it is strictly for announcements, that would mean one has to post in both groups or people cannot come with input.

Not quite what I meant Mat.  When you announce BatchManipulator, for example, I can post feedback to that thread.  So I should have said, announcement topics only.  Better?

 

And, presumably again in both groups for update notices.

As the topic OP, you get to update the original, or, you post again (new topic) making the new post a new announcement which seeds higher in the list anyway.

 

Not a huge problem but it is an extra step that is not obvious. On the other hand, if announcements only then anyone can make the announcement, not necessarily the plugin creator. Should the creator not be happy with someone elses announcement of his plugin, then I guess he can request deletion in that thread and post a new announcement instead.

There are those (hopefully) rare occurrences, yes.  But what we have right now is inferior, IMO.  A plugins group should aid search and, if that's not the case in some circumstances, you can just read all the headlines in one place.

Thinking further, authors could say "Post feedback and questions to the main discussion group, please!"  But I personally think it would be better in the plugin group, possibly.

 

Any volunteering moderators? It would be best with several moderators because of the ebb-and-flow type participation people have (including myself). So, if a few more are volunteers then I can be one.

Yeah, me too - guilty as charged, guv.

;)

[Mark S.]

Probably there should be a rule that the actual announcement should have [ANN] at the start of the first line. Maybe a rule that people can either post an announcement or comment on an existing announcements, but not make non-announcement first-posts.

I could probably volunteer. Let me know.

Mark

[Lost Admin]

OR, and I'm just spit-balling here, we could all donate $1 (or £1) a month to fund a dedicated Tiddlywiki server with forums, plugin library, source-code repository, individual wiki sites, and regular video tutorials posted by the "staff". 

Hmm, that might take more along the lines of $10 (or £10) a month. Never mind. ;-)

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

Originally, I was having very similar thoughts.  Then I realised it needs to be (essentially) "free" - $$$ becomes a barrier to entry for a lot of people, which, depending on the topic, includes me.

It is an intriguing idea, nonetheless.  But, as Mat said, the proposed approach is a "good interim solution" - I don't want to lose sight of that, initially.  It's best, I think, to get something working better than the status quo that solves the numero uno problem - how the hell do I find something that solves my immediate problem?  A one-stop-shop for plugins (with GOOD explanations in the announcements) might just solve that.

[Lost Admin]

Or, as the kind and generous gents who provide Tiddlyspot.com did, built it, maintain it, and fund it yourself for the whole community (with ads to supplement the costs, presumably).

On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 11:16:54 AM UTC-4, codacoder...@outlook.com wrote:

Originally, I was having very similar thoughts.  Then I realised it needs to be (essentially) "free" - $$$ becomes a barrier to entry for a lot of people, which, depending on the topic, includes me.

It is an intriguing idea, nonetheless.  But, as Mat said, the proposed approach is a "good interim solution" - I don't want to lose sight of that, initially.  It's best, I think, to get something working better than the status quo that solves the numero uno problem - how the hell do I find something that solves my immediate problem.  A one-top-shop for plugins (with GOOD explanations in the announcements) might just solve that.

[Mark S.]

About the Google forums, I know I may be in the minority, but I don't think the current arrangement is so bad. That may be partially because whenever I find something interesting, I clip it and save it, usually in TiddlyWiki. Then, whenever someone else comes along that has a similar question or interest, I can look up the information and thread.

If you look around, you can find lots of open source projects that have their own website, but they are dead as the proverbial door nail. This is probably because over the long haul it was just too much effort to keep the site current and active. If those sites have an active component, it's usually the forum, which is usually a link to another site, such as the Google or Yahoo forums, or a mail list.

Mark

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

+1

Thanks, Mark.  You just consolidated my thoughts better than I could.  That last para is killer, (assuming you mean go with something like my original post up top?).

[Mark S.]

Yes. A forum just for announcements esp. re plugins , kits, or bundles (since not all good things come in plugins) is a good idea to tweak the signal-to-noise ratio.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

codacoder...@outlook.com wrote:

Originally, I was having very similar thoughts.  Then I realised it needs to be (essentially) "free" - $$$ becomes a barrier to entry for a lot of people, which, depending on the topic, includes me.

Ciao on this codacoder ...

I want to add that the ACTIVIST userbase for TW is VERY small relative to other projects of equal maturity. What's  interesting is, despite that, its vibrant, evolves and works. BUT most every attempt to "scale-out" at the moment hits barriers. NOT of will. But of hours. Of not enough people.

A DOWNSIDE is also that because of the locked-in-state on Google that commits you to forever wading in a history-fogged swamp (better, your "goolag"---you only cope via PERSONAL memory) I think its VERY tough for newbies to find their feet without a clear history. That becomes a bit of a Catch-22. I am sure there are readers who never write. Look & flee.

So PART of this, for me, is about WHO are we losing? And HOW to appear more inviting.

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Don't call it a forum :-)

I agree a PURE place for announcement threads would be a good idea.

WE LACK THE DICTIONARY of what we are doing. That might, over time, build it.

I had thought about doing that on Twitter since its relatively easy. And nobody there can write you a complex essay back :-).

J.

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

I can't overtly disagree with any of that - the evidence is right before our eyes (even if the actual data might prove hard to amass and interpret).

So, do YOU think a plugins group might serve us and new users better?  I'm thinking also that Mark's approach would work a little easier if not very much better with a one-stop-shop to target...

Mark said

...because whenever I find something interesting, I clip it and save it, usually in TiddlyWiki. Then, whenever someone else comes along that has a similar question or interest, I can look up the information and thread.

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

+2 :)

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao codacoder

I think an ANNOUNCEMENTS SPECIFIC Group, or maybe a Strongly Pinned Thread, would be VERY good.

The skill is in its writing. Its not as easy as recycling.

Judgements need to be made if its gonna work. Without discrimination its a slop bucket. It requires someone/people who is/are regularly following developments. Have the skill to understand them. Can write them up well. That would be INVALUABLE, IMO.

Best wishes
Josiah

[Mark S.]

Which projects are you looking at, and how do you know the activist user base for TW is small?

One of the reasons I went with TW was because of the high activity level.

Looking at Zim, Wikidpad, TakeNote -- activity is practically nil. Simplenote doesn't seem to even have a forum.

Evernote forums have fairly high activity levels, but it appears that the owner(s) themselves never drop in. Even projects that people really depend on like GPG have fairly low traffic, and that is on a mail list.


Mark

[TonyM]

All,

Why not promote Posts in the current groups whose titles are prefixes [announcement]  or [Plugin] ?

It is easy to search a group for such strings, and most of the plugins I know about were found in this group, so we need to maintain access to the history. If you find a plugin in the current groups you may be able to create a new post [plugin] plugin name function with a link to a previous post.

If we can build an index (using search) within the group to plugin references then we can at least find them, and when we decide on a repository, registry or library of plugins we can harvest the details from the group to start.

I am prepared to build and host such a registry but it must openly allow plugin authors and enthusiasts to add and edit it with us all chipping in. It also must take account of the existing helpful repositories or plugin sets documented by those who have already put some effort into this. This means it naturally needs to be a tiddlywiki itself in my view.

A TiddlyWiki in which any plugin could be dropped (whilst not actually being activated in that wiki), and permitting additional metadata to be provided would be a good start. We can then rely in part on each plugins internal documentation to start with.

But it is essential in my view, ultimately along with an overarching solutions based index like tobias's  https://tobibeer.github.io/tb5/#Solutions

Regards

Tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S.

Maybe I'm fogging the waters? Not my intent. My point was not activity level per se. Here is WELL ACTIVE. It is a really excellent group.

I come into it in perhaps a different way than you. I'm not thinking the comparison point is Zim et al. I came into it from a background in regular expressions, CKEditor and TinyMCE -- my initial guess being that TiddlyWiki could be a superb front-end for them. THEN, I slowly realised, its brilliant for much, much more. Its in the same league as them. The 500,000 plus.

It was more sheer numbers who are active here I was meaning.

The numbers here still look LOW to me to have the needed muscle for innovation on bigger changes on the context we work in. Activity is largely focused on "getting-on-with-it" and less on changing "how-to-get-on-with-it". It would be great if we could do more to improve things. But, how, sustainably? Numbers matter to that IMO.

Your suggestion for, basically, highlighting plugins (and maybe "bundles") does look much more workable than wholesale migration--the option in the offing after the last big round on discussion about "what to do on documenting what already is". The Reddit that came out of that isn't used and Stack Exchange isn't there yet from underuse. It IS a numbers game, in that sense.

Slightly askance to your query, underlying all this is, perhaps, another issue. BROADER MARKETING / EXPOSURE / GETTING IT KNOWN.

We benefit from a great product that is hardly known. I think that is True, with a capital "T".

Best wishes
Josiah

[Mark S.]

Maybe the problem is the "wiki" part of the name. People looking for alternatives to a product know to look up something like "program like lotus 123". But most people don't need or want an alternative to a "wiki". The people who do want an alternative to existing wikis (and we know who you are) already know where to look.

So is TW really a Wiki? Or a personal information manager?

I was just looking at the "alternativeto.net" site and noticed that they include TW as a competitor to various wikis, not to Evernote(tm). All of the competitive Wiki's also have low activity counts. The top open-source evernote competitor is listed as Laverna.

Maybe rebranding as InfoSlicer, Rememberall, InfoCache (or something more creative) would put TW on more people's radars.

Mark

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 10:42:56 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Ciao Mark S.

Maybe I'm fogging the waters? Not my intent. My point was not activity level per se. Here is WELL ACTIVE. It is a really excellent group.

I come into it in perhaps a different way than you. I'm not thinking the comparison point is Zim et al. I came into it from a background in regular expressions, CKEditor and TinyMCE -- my initial guess being that TiddlyWiki could be a superb front-end for them. THEN, I slowly realised, its brilliant for much, much more. Its in the same league as them. The 500,000 plus.

It was more sheer numbers who are active here I was meaning.

The numbers here still look LOW to me to have the needed muscle for innovation on bigger changes on the context we work in. Activity is largely focused on "getting-on-with-it" and less on changing "how-to-get-on-with-it". It would be great if we could do more to improve things. But, how, sustainably? Numbers matter to that IMO.

Your suggestion for, basically, highlighting plugins (and maybe "bundles") does look much more workable than wholesale migration--the option in the offing after the last big round on discussion about "what to do on documenting what already is". The Reddit that came out of that isn't used and Stack Exchange isn't there yet from underuse. It IS a numbers game, in that sense.

Slightly askance to you query, underlying all this is, perhaps, another issue. BROADER MARKETING / EXPOSURE / GETTING IT KNOWN.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

Maybe the problem is the "wiki" part of the name.

Pace, an exchange on Twitter ...

Arlen Beiler @arlen25287649 Aug 3
@TiddlyWiki I keep thinking about it, and CardWiki sounds pretty neat, and descriptive.

@TiddlyWiki Replying to @arlen25287649
Yeah it’s a shame cardwiki.com has gone. Having said that, I am not sure that the word “wiki” confers any favours any more…

A Man Called "Cat"‏ @BeaBonobo (the OTHER me)
Replying to @arlen25287649 @TiddlyWiki
"#CardWiki" is about as interesting and accurate as a fart in the wind if you suggesting that for TW :-)

Arlen Beiler‏ @arlen25287649
Replying to @BeaBonobo @TiddlyWiki
Then I will have to keep looking, because it sure reminds of 3x5 index cards (or maybe 5x7).

Replying to @TiddlyWiki @arlen25287649
"I am not sure that the word 'wiki' confers any favours"- @ J - I respect "Wiki" because TW got "Wiki" in its name. No idea what it means.

TiddlyWiki @TiddlyWiki Aug 4
Replying to @TiddlyTweeter @arlen25287649 See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiWikiW… - problem is that the word “wiki” is now tainted by casual users meaning Wikipedia or, worse, WikiL**ks

Tiddly Tweeter @TiddlyTweeter Aug 4
Replying to @TiddlyWiki @arlen25287649
If its essence is "user-editable website" I was *never* aware of that, despite being partially bright. Yeah, its Wikipedia & WikiAssange.

Best wishes

Josiah

[Mat]

Mark S. wrote:

Maybe the problem is the "wiki" part of the name. [..]

... 

So is TW really a Wiki? Or a personal information manager?

...
Maybe rebranding ...

Topic is drifting but, that aside, I agree.  Wikipedia is probably the only contact most people have had with a wiki - at least as far as they know.  But that type of pure "articles" wiki is of course not what TW is about. Plus the editing is pretty awful in Wikipedia (and thus, presumably, MediaWiki). So... who the heck is looking for that when they want an, um... whatever it is they want?

I'm reminded of an attempt I made at identifying software categories of possible relevance for TW. ...as if this thread isn't drifting off topic already.

<:-)

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Friday, August 25, 2017 at 8:13:21 PM UTC-5, TonyM wrote:

All,

Why not promote Posts in the current groups whose titles are prefixes [announcement]  or [Plugin] ?

It is easy to search a group for such strings,

It's easy to search, agreed.  But the results from what you're suggesting are unsuccessful at worst, vague at best.  People don't use consistent phrasing to make announcements (nor would I expect them to).  Just to be sure, I checked:  There are instances of "Announcing", "Presenting" and (most vague) "Plugin" (which could be talk about the plugin, not an announcement).

In addition, part of the problem is not knowing how to search for something that solves <insert complex solution text here> - you don't know in advance what text might hit the plugin on the nose.  My idea has this covered -- ask a question here in the chat group, and one of us suggests a plugin/bundle/whatever in the plugin group.

 

and most of the plugins I know about were found in this group,

me too. But, key point:  where are the plugins you DON'T know about?

To be sure to know about all of them, it requires

• either staying in touch with the group (at least weekly, if not more often) but I don't expect most "average" users would be willing to do that, or...
• searching this group, which, as I've intimated, is too hit-and-miss

 
My idea is a separate group.  When Joe newbie shows up here and asks "Is there a way to do X", someone here posts a link to the relevant announcement thread on the plugin group.  That is easy.  Once there, they can search for more/other plugins or just read the posts. That is easy, too -- very possibly thinking "wow, this is cool - so organised too!"  At least, that's my hope.

so we need to maintain access to the history. If you find a plugin in the current groups you may be able to create a new post [plugin] plugin name function with a link to a previous post.

If we can build an index (using search) within the group to plugin references then we can at least find them, and when we decide on a repository, registry or library of plugins we can harvest the details from the group to start.

While that would work, I think that represents more work.  Maintenance is a thankless task most likely to suffer from entropy. The path of least resistance is best.  I'm not sure my idea is the best path, yet -- that remains to be seen.
 

I am prepared to build and host such a registry but it must openly allow plugin authors and enthusiasts to add and edit it with us all chipping in. It also must take account of the existing helpful repositories or plugin sets documented by those who have already put some effort into this. This means it naturally needs to be a tiddlywiki itself in my view.

That's admirable.  Really.  However, as much as I dislike goolag groups, it is and is likely to remain, "always around".  Again, path of least resistance...

Thanks for the input, it's very valuable.  At the very least, it helps me consolidate my thinking.
 

Coda

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 4:35:35 PM UTC-5, Mat wrote:

Mark S. wrote:

Maybe the problem is the "wiki" part of the name. [..]

... 

So is TW really a Wiki? Or a personal information manager?

...
Maybe rebranding ...

Topic is drifting but, that aside, I agree.  

Me too.  But it speaks to the problem even if it is tangential (sub)thread.  If TW were to suddenly "take off", due to a name-change or something else, we'd certainly need something better than we have for managing "what we have".  The disparate solutions out there are many, difficult to find, some well maintained, others less so.  A plugins group, I believe, would solve that problem.

 

Wikipedia is probably the only contact most people have had with a wiki - at least as far as they know.

Great point.  TW is far and away "better than a wiki" and if Joe newbie thinks "oh, it's one of those things... ugly as sh1t" then that's a lost opportunity.
 

 But that type of pure "articles" wiki is of course not what TW is about. Plus the editing is pretty awful in Wikipedia (and thus, presumably, MediaWiki). So... who the heck is looking for that when they want an, um... whatever it is they want?

whatever it is they want  -- precisely my point earlier about searching.  I know what I want to solve, but little idea of what to search for.  Gimme a group I can just read.
 

I'm reminded of an attempt I made at identifying software categories of possible relevance for TW. ...as if this thread isn't drifting off topic already.

It's complete valid, Mat.  Like I said, were we to solve that, my plugins/bundles group will be a must have, IMO.

Coda

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 1:51:56 PM UTC-5, Mark S. wrote:

Maybe the problem is the "wiki" part of the name. People looking for alternatives to a product know to look up something like "program like lotus 123". But most people don't need or want an alternative to a "wiki". The people who do want an alternative to existing wikis (and we know who you are) already know where to look.

+1 Mark.  See also my reply to Mat.

If it were up to me, I'd lose the name Tiddlywiki (sorry if that offends, Jeremy).  But I'd keep the TW monica.  Nobody (new) would care what it means.  But the investment in "TW" is not something I'd want to lose (again, if it was left to me).

[TonyM]

Cosa,

There are ways to build solutions that encourage community involvement and maintenance, for example if a single repository was marketed by the community as the key way to have your plugin promoted, plugin developers are incentivised to use this to promote their plugin, maintain the info, and the community can respond to lost authors. I suppose my view is a prefix in the current group, vs another group are only imperfect solutions on the way to a more effective solution, I suggest having a vision for our destination and keeping the interim as simple as possible. To me building the new group with the history of plugins from the existing group is as much work as building the end solution.

I am not sure what you mean by a Goolag group, I for one are an open source community driven protagonist.

Open discussion is always important.

Regards
Tony

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Saturday, August 26, 2017 at 11:43:12 PM UTC-5, TonyM wrote:

I am not sure what you mean by a Goolag group ...

https://www.spreadshirt.com/goolag-A59998b22f6c60d694f086552

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Oooh. Earlier in this thread I assumed by "Goolag" cc was punning on "gulag", not advertising tee-shirts.

A gulag is a far off place (usually in Sibera) where wastrels are contained under hash conditions. Cut off from the outside world. Talking about their local concerns in a strange way in semi-secret language, honed through long-adaptation to their environment, they learn to survive and cooperate together well. When you join a gulag the learning curve is shallow and slow--it takes time to learn its secrets. Once learned you may thrive.

Thoughts from the far-side.

Best wishes
Josiah

TonyM wrote:

I am not sure what you mean by a Goolag group ...

codacoder...@outlook.com replied ...

https://www.spreadshirt.com/goolag-A59998b22f6c60d694f086552

[Mat]

Oooh. Earlier in this thread I assumed by "Goolag" cc was punning on "gulag", not advertising tee-shirts.

Not only T-shirts. With Goolag surely people must also be referring to coffee mugs with that logo, of course.

BTW, the Gulag is more commonly known as the notorious prison camps that you can't get out of... this surely has nothing to do with our situation in Google groups of course. Pure coincidence ;-) ;-) ;-)

<:-)

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Coming back to your original post. Several practical comments ...

1 - Despite Google being the great search engine--on Google Groups its Neandertal. Basically it does NOT work. If anyone is assuming that prefixing a post with "Query:" would bring up ONLY such prefixed posts they are mistaken. Its UNWORKABLE unless you are an expert in search. THIS is important to grasp. In my own attempts to find my own posts later I included the word "Houston" in a post. Even THAT doesn't bring up the exact match.

2 - IMO the way ahead, given we are lumbered with Google Groups, is PINNED threads. Everything else enters the swamp quickly. NO NEWBIE would ever search for what they have no idea exists somewhere. For PINNING you would need Jeremy Ruston to agree its looking useful to activate it.

3 - WHAT PINNED threads would help BOTH us and new users?

• NEW HERE? - Basic notes for Newbies about (a) what TW is; (b) how to use the group to learn more. Overall, helping them hang in here.

• SHOWCASE - Links to good TW that show what it does.

• KIT - Links to Plugins, Bundles & Macros that help you get things done. IMO this needs to be curated.

This is a maximal-minimal proposal within GG.

A minimal-maximal proposal I think would be NEW HERE? as a key first.

My two pence

Josiah

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Sunday, August 27, 2017 at 7:41:47 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Coming back to your original post. Several practical comments ...

1 - Despite Google being the great search engine--on Google Groups its Neandertal. Basically it does NOT work. If anyone is assuming that prefixing a post with "Query:" would bring up ONLY such prefixed posts they are mistaken. Its UNWORKABLE unless you are an expert in search. THIS is important to grasp. In my own attempts to find my own posts later I included the word "Houston" in a post. Even THAT doesn't bring up the exact match.

100% agree.  Search results are vague at best.
 

2 - IMO the way ahead, given we are lumbered with Google Groups, is PINNED threads. Everything else enters the swamp quickly. NO NEWBIE would ever search for what they have no idea exists somewhere. For PINNING you would need Jeremy Ruston to agree its looking useful to activate it.

3 - WHAT PINNED threads would help BOTH us and new users?

• NEW HERE? - Basic notes for Newbies about (a) what TW is; (b) how to use the group to learn more. Overall, helping them hang in here.

• SHOWCASE - Links to good TW that show what it does.

• KIT - Links to Plugins, Bundles & Macros that help you get things done. IMO this needs to be curated.

Agree with your reasoning, but don't agree with pinning as a solution.  Pinning was my first thought, too.  But it doesn't scale, and that's why I chose a separate group, forcibly maintained to contain ONLY announcements.

We're on the same page regarding the reasoning (I knew we would be), but we differ on efficacy of the proposed solutions.

With plugins (et al) numbering in the tens, perhaps... maybe... but a hundred?  more?  No thanks - that would be one ugly chat/help group.  It might destroy what this group is good for.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Caro, my only concern about a separate group is whether it gets used. It has the advantage that you can set it up as you want & make sure it works as you want. In any case, you could revert to here if it didn't work because you are talking about the same kind of system. Periodic cross-posting could alert people it exists.

Interesting to see what it might lead to--filling in what is missing here.

J.

[codacoder...@outlook.com]

On Sunday, August 27, 2017 at 9:03:57 AM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Caro, my only concern about a separate group is whether it gets used.

Of course, mine too.  Proactive encouragement in its early days, I think...
 

It has the advantage that you can set it up as you want

yep
 

& make sure it works as you want.

Key point.  And make the header crystal clear as to its purpose.
 

In any case, you could revert to here if it didn't work because you are talking about the same kind of system.

I have no problem with plugin discussion remaining here or in the correct thread on the plugin group.  It's the topics I'm looking to condense (in the new group) to mitigate the search fiasco.
 

Periodic cross-posting could alert people it exists.

Precisely.  And should probably to be encouraged (at least, in the early days).
 

Interesting to see what it might lead to--filling in what is missing here.

Yep.

[Andrew]

Does anyone know about http://erwanm.github.io/tw-community-search/# anyone?