Request for plugin: Import improvement

[David Gifford]

Hi all,

This is something that has bothered me for years. I am just going to say it now that we have a lot of newcomers that would benefit from this tiny improvement.

I think the import tiddler should have two more checkboxes: Check/uncheck system tiddlers, and check/uncheck regular tiddlers.

I say this because I suspect most users, when importing, are in one of two scenarios:

1. They want to move their notes (regular tiddlers) to a new TiddlyWiki setup, say, from Stroll to Drift, or vice versa, or from their old TiddlyWiki to TiddlyRoam, or whatever.

2. They have perfected their setup ($:/ prefixed tiddlers) in a TiddlyWiki file they started that has lots of notes, and they want to create a new template from the shadow tiddlers without importing their notes.

Either way, the simplest procedure SHOULD be,

a) download an empty.html from tiddlywiki.com or Stroll, etc

b) Import tiddlers from old file, with the ability to choose quickly to import only regular tiddlers or only $:/ prefixed tiddlers.

But to do b, one must presently check or uncheck what could be dozens or even hundreds of tiddlers.

Maybe there are other ways to do this in TiddlyWiki. If so, they are well-hidden and probably multistep and/or counterintuitive. It seems like this ought to be available at the import tiddler, to save people time. And it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to use checkboxes to distinguish and filter out tiddlers that start or don't start with $:/

I think this should be core, but as the title states, I'd be willing to settle for a plugin. What do you guys think? Is this as desirable as I think it is? Or does it create more problems than it solves? Interested in hearing feedback. Blessings.

[TonyM]

David

I have being working on various import tools so I will look to see if I can do this. By the way its already possible to hack the import process without plugins needed.

In the mean time there is an easy work around. Go to your source wiki and advanced search filter tab to build filter the tiddlers you want to transfer to a json file.

E.g. [!is[system]]

Go to your empty html and import the json.

Regards
Tony

[David Gifford]

Thanks Tony, yes, I knew there was something on the export side of things. And I have done that once or twice.

But for a new user, that 'simple' workaround means

1) knowing that the option exists

2) knowing how to get to advanced search and that you need to go to the filter tab

3) going there

4) knowing what filter to put in the box

5) doing that

6) knowing what option to choose in the export popup, and doing that

7) not feeling intimidated by seeing the word 'json', which to some might sound scarier than Jason from Friday the 13th

8) figuring out where to store the file on their computer

9) going back into another TiddlyWiki file

10) importing the json file.

The process I am suggesting would reduce this to

1. clicking a checkbox.

2. import the tiddlers

Thanks for being willing to investigate this. Blessings.

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[TonyM]

David,

I will look at the approach you suggest, Another option, may be to use the tiddlywiki upgrade mechanism. It works to protect you from system tiddlers.

You can actually use the upgrade process even with the same version. Basically you drop your wiki on the big upgrade icon, then click to save, and save over you original wiki (if you have a backup for safety.

What ever solution we find, do consider the best place for us to document the process, I think self documentation may be the way to go. If the import process detected such a thing happening, ie importing system tiddlers perhaps it could provide a note to guide users. Then we dont need to depend on them reading something somewhere to learn.

Regards

Tony

On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 9:54:30 PM UTC+10, David Gifford wrote:

Thanks Tony, yes, I knew there was something on the export side of things. And I have done that once or twice.

But for a new user, that 'simple' workaround means

1) knowing that the option exists

2) knowing how to get to advanced search and that you need to go to the filter tab

3) going there

4) knowing what filter to put in the box

5) doing that

6) knowing what option to choose in the export popup, and doing that

7) not feeling intimidated by seeing the word 'json', which to some might sound scarier than Jason from Friday the 13th

8) figuring out where to store the file on their computer

9) going back into another TiddlyWiki file

10) importing the json file.

The process I am suggesting would reduce this to

1. clicking a checkbox.

2. import the tiddlers

Thanks for being willing to investigate this. Blessings.

On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 6:40 AM TonyM <anthon...@gmail.com> wrote:

David

I have being working on various import tools so I will look to see if I can do this. By the way its already possible to hack the import process without plugins needed.

In the mean time there is an easy work around. Go to your source wiki and advanced search filter tab to build filter the tiddlers you want to transfer to a json file.

E.g. [!is[system]]

Go to your empty html and import the json.

Regards
Tony

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[Saq Imtiaz]

I have working, tested code sitting around to make a pull request to add renaming to the import process. If Tony or someone else doesn't get around to it before I do that, I can take a look at this as well. It's a pragmatic request. I would want to be able to easily toggle shadow tiddlers as well.

(On a different note I really want to revamp that entire Import UI..... well, not just the UI but the entire import process).

[TonyM]

Saq,

What do you want to change about the import process? I have discovered its highly flexible and intended to release quite a few tools relating to this, I would be concerned if the possibilities were lost. I suspect it may not have being by design, but there are a great many possibilities already with the import process, I use many already manually, but have not published tools yet.

One way we can quickly see if a plugin is needed or not, we can look at the current way tiddlywiki does it, and if it is not using a plugin, it usually can be redesigned without needing a plugin, more specifically avoiding  the need for javaScript functions. If we do go the plugin/javascript route I would hope it does not reduce capabilities.

Please let me know what you would have be improved from an import functionality perspective, and I will see if I can address it, or even identify if its already possible at the same time as helping David.

There is already a method to set and check tiddlers during import, I already send such imports a different ways including to JSON, data tiddlers, plugins and more. It is highly extencible.

Keep an eye on this thread.

Thanks

Tony

[PMario]

On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 1:30:09 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:

This is something that has bothered me for years. I am just going to say it now that we have a lot of newcomers that would benefit from this tiny improvement.

I think the import tiddler should have two more checkboxes: Check/uncheck system tiddlers, and check/uncheck regular tiddlers.

 I think that's a valid request. ... You should raise it at github, otherwise it may "fade away" here.

-m

[David Gifford]

done.

[PMario]

On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 2:15:17 PM UTC+2, Saq Imtiaz wrote:

I have working, tested code sitting around to make a pull request to add renaming to the import process. If Tony or someone else doesn't get around to it before I do that, I can take a look at this as well. It's a pragmatic request. I would want to be able to easily toggle shadow tiddlers as well.

(On a different note I really want to revamp that entire Import UI..... well, not just the UI but the entire import process).

+1 here. There is some room for improvement, especially, if tiddlers are "disabled" by the import process. There is _no_ way to enable them again, even if the checkbox is checked by the user.

Jeremy made a request at github some time ago. https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/4263 ... I think this process isn't finished yet.

-mario

[Saq Imtiaz]

@TonyM the only tangible change I've mentioned is a pull request to add the ability to rename tiddlers during import. Considering how strongly backwards compatibility with established ways of doing things is considered for all core changes, I don't see any reason for your panic.

The entire import process from a code perspective is not written a way that plays well with server backends, as it is entirely synchronous. This can be improved without negatively impacting single file wikis. I think you will agree that it is a challenge to circumvent that with wiki text.

I never mentioned plugins but I will say that if it wasn't for people willing to write custom JavaScript (and plugins), we wouldn't have a lot of the features we take for granted today in TiddlyWiki, like for instance tags. The blind negativity towards JavaScript and plugins stifles creativity and innovation.