Learning by looking and stealing ;-)

[Ray Vermey]

Hello fellow Tiddliers,

i am learning (again) TiddlyWiki.

I try this by looking at other TW sites.

I really miss a solid introduction (of the more advanced features)
For instance: What are macro's, how to use them? How to create them

And also: how can i design my own page??

One example:

http://wills.tiddlyspot.com/

I see nice things there!
I dragged and dropped the @inbox and @todo to my own wiki
That worked.. well they imported!
But what now???
How do i get those "cards" you see on the site??
That is what i would like to know...

Next thing is how to customize the look of the WIki....
When i know that i will be a big step further...

One thing i earlier thought about was this:

I would like to type Lines in my tiddler.
And when i type a line with for instance: #idea (or $$idea or whatever special char in front of it)
that then THAT line will be 'dumped' in a tiddler called IDEAS
And another line with say: $$remember goes in the Tiddler with REMEMBER

This is a lot i am asking but i think we all can benefit so we can use TW to the max!

Hope i get some answers here ...

THANK YOU!

Ray

[Mat]

I really miss a solid introduction (of the more advanced features)
For instance: What are macro's, how to use them? How to create them

Info on macros can be found in (e.g) the tiddler Macros in WikiText, i.e on the main TW site. But just type in "macro" or "macros" in the search field and see what happens. Can I sincerely ask why you have not looked on this? I'm sincerely curious to how you might have missed out on this because then probably others have too - which means it is a problem for all of us and we must do something about it. Please explain Ray.

While, arguably, the way to learn TW is by tinkering, I find the documentation on tw.com to be really good. Not perfect, and definitely not comprehensive, but it typically gives me many pieces in my puzzles. Now, the key is that it's not only the documentation - you must open various tiddlers and figure out how they work.

http://wills.tiddlyspot.com/ 

I see nice things there!
I dragged and dropped the @inbox and @todo to my own wiki
That worked.. well they imported!
But what now???
How do i get those "cards" you see on the site??
That is what i would like to know...

The "cards" you see there (really cool, btw) seem to be transcluded from the tiddler $:/_display-panel.

To find this, you enter it into the search field... but the host of that particular TW has moved the search function into a sidebar tab. 

As you see, the first characters in "$:/_display-panel" are "$:/" - this menas it is a system tiddler (or a shadow tiddler), i.e tiddlers that the host for some reason wants to not show up in search lists as common content tiddlers. So you must use the tab called "System" under Search.

...but, frankly, considering your initial questions I think it is a bit too advanced to "get those cards" right now.

I would like to type Lines in my tiddler.

And when i type a line with for instance: #idea (or $$idea or whatever special char in front of it)
that then THAT line will be 'dumped' in a tiddler called IDEAS 

And another line with say: $$remember goes in the Tiddler with REMEMBER

This is a very interesting request, but I must make sure I understand it: What specifically do mean with "lines"? Is it a paragraph of text, i.e something with an empty line after it? Is it a sentence, from Capital letter to period "."?

And would such a "line" always start with the special keyword/keycharacters (kind of like a bullet list), or could the special word be in the middle of a "line" ?

There was a similarish request the other day, to which I made a solution.

Also, fellow Danielo just the other day published AutoTag so that IF you have prevoiusly created a tag titled IDEAS then in your text (your "lines") you write that word, it will automatically tag that tiddler with that tag, when you save the tiddler. Then, in the IDEAS tiddler you can list the content from those tiddlers.

<:-)

[Evolena]

Le jeudi 10 septembre 2015 11:48:42 UTC+2, Ray Vermey a écrit :

I really miss a solid introduction (of the more advanced features)
For instance: What are macro's, how to use them? How to create them

You looked at other TW site, but did you read the reference documentation on tiddlywiki.com?
For example, for macro definition and usage: http://tiddlywiki.com/#Macros%20in%20WikiText

 

http://wills.tiddlyspot.com/

I see nice things there!
I dragged and dropped the @inbox and @todo to my own wiki
That worked.. well they imported!
But what now???
How do i get those "cards" you see on the site??
That is what i would like to know...

If you edit these @inbox and @todo tiddlers, you can see that they transclude other tiddlers... so they will do nothing without importing these tiddlers too (in a 2 minutes look, I have not found where the necessary tiddlers for a feature are listed).
Be careful that this site is under TW beta 5.0.10, so some things may be obsolete and even not working at all in a TW 5.1.9

[Ray Vermey]

Yes i saw the macro description indeed, but what i would like to learn is WHEN and WHY could you use Maros?

Pitty that often TW's are obsolete......

Thanks

Ray

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[Evolena]

Le jeudi 10 septembre 2015 14:14:56 UTC+2, Ray Vermey a écrit :

Yes i saw the macro description indeed, but what i would like to learn is WHEN and WHY could you use Maros?

Concepts are explained too: http://tiddlywiki.com/#Macros

A macro is basically text replacement, with the possibility to use parameters.

Best way of learning TW is

• to look at how things are done (first on the core/ui system tiddlers of tiddlywiki.com, and on other TWs which are dedicated to propose solutions to other users like Tobias Beer's http://tb5.tiddlyspot.com/),
• when you don't understand something, to look at the associated doc to learn, especially in the "Reference" part of the TW5.com table of content (concepts, wikitext, filters, macro/widget description, ...),
• and then to try modifying something or doing something to see what happens.

There are no absolute TW lessons to teach how to do every possible thing.

[Evolena]

Some examples of usage:

• you have a piece of text that is laborious to write, but that you have to use at several places. For example, in French we nee unbreakable spaces before ":", ";" or "?", but unbreakable space is laborious to write, so I can define a macro that replaces <<?>> by &nbsp;? (and I find the first more lisible than the second).
• you have a sentence that is almost always the same, except some words, you can use a macro with a parameter. This parameter can be for example the value of a field of the current tiddler.
• the replacement can be a lot more important. In the TW5.com interface, tabs and the table of content are wikitext macros! (and they are very worth learning how they work)
  
• a macro can be used as a widget parameter value. It can be useful if this value needs itself a parameter, or if you need to concatene some pieces of text

An important thing to know about macro (and it is said in the Macro's concept tiddler) is that the content of a macro (when you define it) is not wikified before its rendering, when it is called. That's why they are sometimes the only way to do some things (like concatenation). It is also a limitation, as a transclusion in the definition of a macro won't be immediately resolved.

[Ray Vermey]

Thanks, nice to know!

is there also the possibiltie of giving a field a numerical value and the create a filter where i want to show

the results of the values BETWEEN or GREATER THAN a certain value?

I know how to display tiddlers with a known value but interesting would be to do this with say value >1 or so.

Thanks!

Ray

2015-09-10 15:45 GMT+02:00 Evolena <julie.st...@gmail.com>:

Some examples of usage:

• you have a piece of text that is laborious to write, but that you have to use at several places. For example, in French we nee unbreakable spaces before ":", ";" or "?", but unbreakable space is laborious to write, so I can define a macro that replaces <<?>> by &nbsp;? (and I find the first more lisible than the second).
• you have a sentence that is almost always the same, except some words, you can use a macro with a parameter. This parameter can be for example the value of a field of the current tiddler.
• the replacement can be a lot more important. In the TW5.com interface, tabs and the table of content are wikitext macros! (and they are very worth learning how they work)
  
• a macro can be used as a widget parameter value. It can be useful if this value needs itself a parameter, or if you need to concatene some pieces of text

An important thing to know about macro (and it is said in the Macro's concept tiddler) is that the content of a macro is not wikified before its rendering, when it is called.

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[Evolena]

Le jeudi 10 septembre 2015 15:49:34 UTC+2, Ray Vermey a écrit :

is there also the possibiltie of giving a field a numerical value and the create a filter where i want to show

the results of the values BETWEEN or GREATER THAN a certain value?

I know how to display tiddlers with a known value but interesting would be to do this with say value >1 or so.

Numerical operations are not supported for the moment (I think there are some issues on Github to ask for it, but I don't know if it is planned). Maybe someone has done a plugin for that, so you should search on the group and if you find nothing, ask in another dedicated thread (title matching with the demand = better chances to have an answer).

[Danielo Rodríguez]

• you have a piece of text that is laborious to write, but that you have to use at several places. For example, in French we nee unbreakable spaces before ":", ";" or "?", but unbreakable space is laborious to write, so I can define a macro that replaces <<?>> by &nbsp;? (and I find the first more lisible than the second).

For that task you can use the keyboard snippets plugin. Which is at braintest.tiddlyspot.com.

Regards 

[Ray Vermey]

Hi Mat,

thanks for you lengthy answer!!

I read a lot! A whole lot! Also on the site you mention.

But at 1st i was stuck to TW Classic. Later i choose TW5

What is miss is that TW takes you by the hand.

The basics are there.... a tiddler and linking them and tagging.

That is clear.

But the system/shadow tiddlers and the fields and such.

What I need, and maybe more people, is a tutorial where:

- you create some tiddlers

- Work with tags

- Link them with [[WikiWords]] and or tags

- And then explain how to search and advance search

- How to use the fields

- How to search with those fields

- Use real life examples, for instance i saw the ToDo Wiki with checkboxes...

  I could never find how to make those checkboxes

  And how the system was set up....

- How to change the look and feel of you page...

  I see great sites but cannot see how to do it... oke i read something about CSS...

- And i visit sites which link to TW's that just dont exist anymore.

My quest with TW started years ago.

Then i found Evernote and stuck with that.

But i want more flexiblity so i returned to TW.

I really like it but i just can not find a good step by step tutorial.

So am i too dumb?

Is TW only for the nerds among us?

I looked at the 'cards' site again.

Saw the _Display-panel and behind it are two statements.

Didnt tell me anything.... see what i mean?

About the request for lines....

This is my idea...:

---- example tiddler -----

Talked with JimKerr this morning about ProjectBogus.

!!!IDEA!!! Ask old collegues to giver their opinion about using

new techniques for welding pipelines !!!IIDEA!!!!

!!!SHOPPING!!!! Get some ice from the store!!!SHOPPING!!!

etc etc

---------------------------

Now these lines should be automagically be added after i press SAVE to the following Tiddlers

SHOPPING (contains)
----------------

Get some ice from the store

IDEA
------
Ask old collegues to giver their opinion about using
new techniques for welding pipelines

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

New lines should be appended to the tiddlers

See what i mean???

I think TW has very great potential.

It only should be made more accessable.

Maybe we start a hangout or something?

Or a YouTube video?

Thanks again !!!

Ray

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[Mat]

Hi again Ray

Yes... what you point out is probably a recurring problem in non-commercial projects. Everything that is accomplished relies on individuals contributing their spare time for it. With TW there's so much fun to do that making the things you ask for has not yet been done, at least not in video format.

"Is it only for nerds?" (I think the term is "geeks") - Frankly, my impression is that many TW users, at least in the active community are often interested in TW per se - which I think qualifies us as geeks, yes. I am definitely including myself here. IMO, TW is absolutely incredible but TW currently doesn't spread well due to lacking infrastructure for spreading it (see my articles on Infrastructure) and missing key-turn applications (see Appetizer TWs). 

I looked at the 'cards' site again.

Saw the _Display-panel and behind it are two statements.

Didnt tell me anything.... see what i mean?

Well, opening that tiddler doesn't tell me that much either - because it is something that this individual has created. To understand what it is / how it works will require digging and investigating regardless how well you know TW. 

 

About the request for lines....

This is my idea...:

I think I understand and, as noted, I find this to be a very interesting application. It is a bit like transclusions but reversed. You "push-transclude" and it really makes sense because you do this as you're using TW rather than structuring it. IMO, TW comes more from a perspective about managing content than producing it. But it's constantly improving. 

I'm trying to create something for your particular request. Unfortunately I'm not very good at this myself so we'll see how it goes. Can't promise anything.

 

I think TW has very great potential.

It only should be made more accessable.

Maybe we start a hangout or something?

Or a YouTube video?

 Here's an idea for you: Make a youtube video about Evernote vs TW. There are so few TW videos that many people from here will watch it. I have never used Evernote so I'm really curious on which parts you'd say are better with it that TW should try to improve on.

<:-)

[Ray Vermey]

Hey Mat,

well since i am less than a rookie at TW i am not the person making a video about it.

When i tell you that i am looking for 3 weeks in a row on all kind of TW's, and the main site has more

documentation then i thought it had, would you believe me?? ;)

I am looking into the Learning part on the sidebar and there are some good pointers there.

Slowly i am getting there! Using CSS for instance.

What TW people should do is document their pages better so you can use their code!

Or readers here, te PROS should care to step forward and demonstrate their powers in a hangout or so.

And take a TW side and explain what is done where and how it is accomplished.

That is what i am looking for.

So that i can learn and start to use it more and better.

For instance i see pages where all the tags are together placed in nice coloured butons, and i ask myself:

how is that done? (do you know how??)

Maybe we start a thread where all you guys write how you use TW, show your page, and how it is made?

Then we can learn a lot from each other...

Or am i too ambitious here? Or is it already done somewhere??

About my request, which i am very happy about that you will try to write something for, when i

am working on my notes, i often think: Oh think about this, oh that is a nice idea!

At the time i closed the tiddler or note i am working on i forget about it already.

That would be the power to add a line and voila the thought is placed in a seperate tiddler.

Awesome!

Hope this helps the discussion further, while i will keep digging and digging and stealing ;-)

Cheers!

Ray

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[Mat]

well since i am less than a rookie at TW i am not the person making a video about it.

The point is that only you can give your perspective and show what is good or bad from that view. Particularly since you have Evernote experience. Anyway, you propose that a lot of other people should share things with you so maybe this woudl be a chance for you to share something they might find interesting? 

When i tell you that i am looking for 3 weeks in a row on all kind of TW's, and the main site has more

documentation then i thought it had, would you believe me?? ;)

I am looking into the Learning part on the sidebar and there are some good pointers there.

Slowly i am getting there! Using CSS for instance.

TW documentation is not about CSS but  there's unlimited info on the web.

 

What TW people should do is document their pages better so you can use their code!

Or readers here, te PROS should care to step forward and demonstrate their powers in a hangout or so.

Not so sure about the "should" in this :-)

 

For instance i see pages where all the tags are together placed in nice coloured butons, and i ask myself:

how is that done? (do you know how??)

You can find info on that in the documentation (I know because I saw it earlier today). I think it was in the tiddler on Transclusion and Templates or some such title. Not obvious. But it was just a example there.

 

Overall, my impression is that there is much you have not yet found on tw.com. There are quite a few links there, e.g in the community section. It does take time. 

[PMario]

On Friday, September 11, 2015 at 1:36:07 AM UTC+2, Ray Vermey wrote:

And take a TW side and explain what is done where and how it is accomplished.

You are absolutely right. The only problem is, that it is easy to make some modifications. eg: it needs 10 minutes to modify some templates and change the TW layout. But you need at least an hour to properly describe, what you've done _and_ why. ... So the problem is time. 
 

That is what i am looking for.

So that i can learn and start to use it more and better.

At the moment, the best possibilities are still asking questions here in the forum :)
 

For instance i see pages where all the tags are together placed in nice coloured butons, and i ask myself:

how is that done? (do you know how??)

links?
 

Maybe we start a thread where all you guys write how you use TW, show your page, and how it is made?

Then we can learn a lot from each other...

see. http://tiddlywiki.com/#Community ... most of the time you have to look at the tiddler source, to find out what is done. ..
 

Or am i too ambitious here? Or is it already done somewhere??

no and no.

About my request, which i am very happy about that you will try to write something for, when i

am working on my notes, i often think: Oh think about this, oh that is a nice idea!

At the time i closed the tiddler or note i am working on i forget about it already.

That would be the power to add a line and voila the thought is placed in a seperate tiddler.

Awesome!

For me it's no problem, just to open a second tiddler and write down the idea. ... There have been some discussions in this group about a "quick note" section in the TW. ... I can't find the link atm. .. you are not alone with this desire.

 

Hope this helps the discussion further, while i will keep digging and digging and stealing ;-)

It's not stealing. ... let's call it fair use :)

-mario

[Birthe C]

Hi Ray,

Are you referring to http://wills.tiddlyspot.com?  I loved that one when Matabele created it. So much so that I downloaded a copy and translated it into Danish. I learned a lot from that, having to look into each and every tiddler and getting it right. Immediate feedback, when I got it right it worked ;-)

If you like it enough, you could download a copy and upgrade it yourself. It is time consuming but there is much to learn, and it can be made to work.

http://tiddlywiki.com you can find Release notes for each version.

$:/tags/stylesheet has to be changed to $:/tags/Stylesheet. Naming for button classes changed too and button messages....that is why you will find that the  buttons looks and works strange, that is until, you change it.

To upgrade this TW, you would have to make changes in a lot of tiddlers. Also
$:/plugins/matabele/newtid is used in this TW and needs some changes too.

I think by now you know, why not every tiddlywiki is upgraded ;-)


Birthe




[Danielo Rodríguez]

Your request about "grouping" all the ideas together in a single tiddler by enclosing them between certain tags can be accomplished by the use of the match filter plugin, created by Eucaly

http://eucaly-tw5.tiddlyspot.com/#%24%3A%2Fplugins%2Feucaly%2Fmatchfilter%2Fhistory 

On that tiddler you can see some links that shows you how to fetch all the headings of certain tiddler for example, something very close to what you want to do.

Regards

[Ray Vermey]

Thanks, i look at it but dont understand how to use it, although i installed the plugin btw...
Read the readme, looked at the examples... sorry for being dense...

Ray

Op vrijdag 11 september 2015 12:30:43 UTC+2 schreef Danielo Rodríguez:

[UBi]

Am Freitag, 11. September 2015 01:36:07 UTC+2 schrieb Ray Vermey:

For instance i see pages where all the tags are together placed in nice coloured butons, and i ask myself:

how is that done? (do you know how??)

In TWC, there was a Tag Cloud Plugin, showing all tags in one place, their font size corresponding with how often they were used.
I haven't yet found a solution for the font size variation, but showing their usage count works.
Simply create a Tiddler with following content:

<style type="text/css">
  .cloud span { white-space:nowrap; margin-right:6px; }
  .cloud .tc-tag-list-item { margin-right:0; margin-top:4px; }
</style>
<div class="cloud">
  <$list filter="[tags[]!is[system]sort[title]]">
    <span>
      <$transclude tiddler="$:/core/ui/TagTemplate"/>
      <small><$count filter="[all[current]tagging[]]"/></small>
    </span>
  </$list>
</div>

You will see all your tag buttons, their usage count appended.

You could transclude this tiddler afterwards in your default tiddler.

Uwe