Demystify drag-N-drop in Tiddlywiki

[Mohammad Rahmani]

While drag and drop is not a new feature in Tiddlywiki, but it is a bit tricky to develop tools based on it.

There are a lot of great use cases for it [1]. This feature has  recently been improved [2] and there is still work in progress to address issues and make it more powerful!

I am working on a resource to demystify the drag-N-drop in Tiddlywiki lets all users use and customize it in their development for different purposes!

Please kindly share your scripts, tools, and examples for drag-N-drop in Tiddlywiki. I will do 

Best wishes

Mohammad

Ref

[1] https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/dDMG3Ocb29s/m/J0hYKp0qBAAJ

[2] https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/OR48TT_loB8/m/OY3LMOrDBAAJ

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Example 1: Bookmarker Zone

Drag and drop a valid url to create a bookmark

1. Attached JSON contains three tiddler
2. Download and drag and drop into https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/
3. Look at sidebar and open Bookmarker
4. drag and drop VALID url over the dropzone of  Bookmarker
5. See new bookmark created
6. The code is smart to do nothing if you drag and drop a text or a tiddler only valid URL works!

Kudos must go to Eric Shulman for demystifying droppable widget! and Tones for asking for this feature!

This code can be further expanded and customized!

See attached demo clip.

Best wishes

Mohammad

[Mark S.]

I've been using something like this for awhile to allow collection of the complete information for an article or other net resource

It's sort of like the web clipper, but doesn't require an extension. You select the category you want from the dropdown, and then drag and drop whatever bits (title, text, url, tags) you want onto the right target. You can add or remove tags to the working tiddler.  One thing that I would have liked is a copy-from-clipboard feature. TW already has a copy-to-clipboard feature. For instance, if you want to paste a clipboard full of markdown text, you have to do it in two steps -- paste to an edit box, and then press a button. I know it's too ugly for most people, but maybe the concept will inspire someone to make a prettier version.

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi Mark,

Very clever solution! I love the way you do it!

A sidebar tab, a list of categories and being able to add extra tags!

 Also the grabbing text is wonderful! I have the same problem when I drag a chunk of text from a website, the html codes are copied! Your solution

address the issue.

Thank you

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[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

Mohammad wrote:

Example 1: Bookmarker Zone

Drag and drop a valid url to create a bookmark

Just FYI, I haven't got it working in my Firefox yet. Chrome, yes. Maybe that is just me? Something weird in my Firefox?

Couple of other points ...

• I might try and adapt a version so that the links are stored in data dictionaries. That better suits my practice as I just tend to use links for a while and then delete them. All I normally use is the link and its title. Dates unneeded for me.

• I also link a lot to local files and wiki. So I'd try and change the "url parsing" to accept "file:///"

Its very good to see an example like yours to better understand d-n-d! Tx!

Best wishes

TT 

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark

It was really useful to see that image of your tool!

One of the interesting things about linking/bookmarking is actually people's needs seem actually quite diverse.

I noticed before some need, sort of, "completer information".

In my own case I tend to use links more in the style of minimalist simple lists.

Just a comment

TT

Mark S. wrote:

I've been using something like this for awhile to allow collection of the complete information for an article or other net resource ...

.... 

It's sort of like the web clipper, but doesn't require an extension. You select the category you want from the dropdown, and then drag and drop whatever bits (title, text, url, tags) you want onto the right target. You can add or remove tags to the working tiddler. ...

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi TT,

 Good to read your reply! I was  writing you and I saw your email

1. the regex is your area of expertise, please check the pattern, I just generated it in regex101 and not sure if it correct but it works
2. yes, please add the file:/// 
3. a second version is attached which is remove https, http, ftp prefixes and drop part after first /, so it keeps the domain (e.g mail.google.com)
4. the template can be customized per user and you can add/remove what you like, note to also correct `createBookmark` macro

So please go ahead and let me know your corrections!

Side note: naming and caption is for my doc Tiddlywiki, change to fit your own requirements!

Best wishes

Mohammad

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[Mohammad Rahmani]

On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:07 AM TiddlyTweeter <Tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

Ciao Mohammad

Mohammad wrote:

Example 1: Bookmarker Zone

Drag and drop a valid url to create a bookmark

Just FYI, I haven't got it working in my Firefox yet. Chrome, yes. Maybe that is just me? Something weird in my Firefox?

I tested the rev02 attached in my previous post with FF 88 - Win 10 and it works fine!

Couple of other points ...

• I might try and adapt a version so that the links are stored in data dictionaries. That better suits my practice as I just tend to use links for a while and then delete them. All I normally use is the link and its title. Dates unneeded for me.

• I also link a lot to local files and wiki. So I'd try and change the "url parsing" to accept "file:///"

Its very good to see an example like yours to better understand d-n-d! Tx!

Best wishes

TT 

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[si]

@Mohammad Really nice! I've stayed away from drag and drop up until now, so I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

The bookmarker is a great example. It works particularly well in Vivaldi if you have your wiki open in the sidebar - no having to jump between tabs. It would be cool if it could pull the title of the page as well as the URL, but I imagine this would require some JavaScript magic?

@TT I'm also finding that it doesn't work in Firefox (v88, Windows 10).

[TW Tones]

Mohammad,

I dropped rev02 on triddlywiki.com and its a not working, the only symptom I see is the green download bar is displayed.

Tones

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Best wishes

Mohammad

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 10:52 AM TW Tones <anthony...@gmail.com> wrote:

Mohammad,

I dropped rev02 on triddlywiki.com and its a not working, the only symptom I see is the green download bar is displayed.

Tones,

I checked the rev02 again! It works!

Note only drag and drop a valid link!

Thank you

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/b2f49b70-0a3f-4228-8083-2c1695ee3104n%40googlegroups.com.

[Mohammad Rahmani]

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 12:58 AM si <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Mohammad Really nice! I've stayed away from drag and drop up until now, so I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

The bookmarker is a great example. It works particularly well in Vivaldi if you have your wiki open in the sidebar - no having to jump between tabs. It would be cool if it could pull the title of the page as well as the URL, but I imagine this would require some JavaScript magic?

I like this feature too! I think yes JS is needed, at least I do not know how to extract data using wikitext! but I am looking forward to any solution / idea.

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[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad & si-matthew

si <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Mohammad Really nice! I've stayed away from drag and drop up until now, so I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

The bookmarker is a great example. It works particularly well in Vivaldi if you have your wiki open in the sidebar - no having to jump between tabs. It would be cool if it could pull the title of the page as well as the URL, but I imagine this would require some JavaScript magic?

Mohammad replied ... 

I like this feature too! I think yes JS is needed, at least I do not know how to extract data using wikitext!

but I am looking forward to any solution / idea.

My GUESS is that it may be possible to use this tool alongside a browser Bookmarklet?

Jeremy actually posted one that you could click to create a link tiddler. I just haven't been able to find it in the Google Group yet.

My thought is that rather than immediately create a "Link Tiddler", as it currently works, is it creates a temporary tiddler. 

In that way one might be able to use it in parallel with other methods? 

Meaning, for instance, a browser bookmarklet might be able to fill the same temporary "Link Tiddler" fields?

 ALSO one could use the edit widget to change the "title" IF needed before final save to a "Link Tiddler"?

I hope this is clear!

Just thoughts!

TT

[Jeremy Ruston]

Sadly, browsers do not allow JavaScript code running in TiddlyWiki to obtain the window title corresponding to a particular URL. 

A different approach that could work is to write a bookmarklet that runs in the context of the page being bookmarked; it would have full access to the page content, including the window title. It wouldn't have access to TiddlyWiki, though, so perhaps the best it could do is to popup a window to fill in the tags etc, and then download a .json file of the link tiddler that could later be imported into a wiki.

Best wishes

Jeremy

--

Jeremy Ruston

jer...@jermolene.com

https://jermolene.com

On 10 May 2021, at 09:57, TiddlyTweeter <tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:



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[TiddlyTweeter]

jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

Sadly, browsers do not allow JavaScript code running in TiddlyWiki to obtain the window title corresponding to a particular URL. 

A different approach that could work is to write a bookmarklet that runs in the context of the page being bookmarked; it would have full access to the page content, including the window title. It wouldn't have access to TiddlyWiki, though, so perhaps the best it could do is to popup a window to fill in the tags etc, and then download a .json file of the link tiddler that could later be imported into a wiki.

Thanks Jeremy. That is useful for me to be clearer about! 

And for Mohammad to know.

Best wishes

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

si wrote:

@TT I'm also finding that it doesn't work in Firefox (v88, Windows 10).

Right. There is some kind of Obscure Issue on Firefox. 

I think it looks like it is more fussy than Chrome on canonical url syntax? 

NOT SURE. Testing will eventually bring it out I'm sure.

Current thoughts.

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

In my own testing so far this more minimal regex seems to work ... !!

•  pattern="^\ *(https?|ftp|file|news|data|mailto):.+$

With something like this ...

• {{{ [<url>trim[https://]trim[http://]trim[www.]trim[ftp://]trim[file:///]trim[news:]trim[mailto:]split[/]!is[blank]first[]join[.]] }}}

Any of those protocols a user does not support yet in a browser should be prompted for by the BROWSER. 

Just a comment. NOT fully tested yet but seems okay so far.

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

To clarify, I worked a bit to get the tool to first post to a temporary you can edit ...

This is JUST a visual demo of the general idea to edit before save??

JUST thoughts, TT

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Thank you Jeremy and TT for the hints!

I will give a try!

Best wishes

Mohammad

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[Mohammad Rahmani]

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 4:04 PM TiddlyTweeter <Tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

Ciao Mohammad

Hi TT,

 

In my own testing so far this more minimal regex seems to work ... !!

•  pattern="^\ *(https?|ftp|file|news|data|mailto):.+$

Lovely! one minor comment:

1. I like to check the validity of links! So if one drops something like this (http.yahoo.com) or this (yahoo.come.) it wont detect this and will add the wrong link!

    So, I prefer a URL validator for pattern. What I sent catches all these and only passed the validated URL.

2. It does not recognize file

3. Regarding the data of access, yes you can remove it, but I think APA7 recommend having the access date!

 

With something like this ...

• {{{ [<url>trim[https://]trim[http://]trim[www.]trim[ftp://]trim[file:///]trim[news:]trim[mailto:]split[/]!is[blank]first[]join[.]] }}}

Any of those protocols a user does not support yet in a browser should be prompted for by the BROWSER. 

Just a comment. NOT fully tested yet but seems okay so far.

TT

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[Mohammad Rahmani]

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 11:42 PM TiddlyTweeter <Tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

Ciao Mohammad

To clarify, I worked a bit to get the tool to first post to a temporary you can edit ...

This is JUST a visual demo of the general idea to edit before save??

WOW, very nice! The possibility to edit the title in place looks very useful here!

 

JUST thoughts, TT

On Monday, 10 May 2021 at 13:34:09 UTC+2 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Ciao Mohammad

In my own testing so far this more minimal regex seems to work ... !!

•  pattern="^\ *(https?|ftp|file|news|data|mailto):.+$

With something like this ...

• {{{ [<url>trim[https://]trim[http://]trim[www.]trim[ftp://]trim[file:///]trim[news:]trim[mailto:]split[/]!is[blank]first[]join[.]] }}}

Any of those protocols a user does not support yet in a browser should be prompted for by the BROWSER. 

Just a comment. NOT fully tested yet but seems okay so far.

TT

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[TiddlyTweeter]

 Mohammad wrote:

Hi TT,

 

In my own testing so far this more minimal regex seems to work ... !!

•  pattern="^\ *(https?|ftp|file|news|data|mailto):.+$

Lovely! one minor comment:

1. I like to check the validity of links! So if one drops something like this (http.yahoo.com) or this (yahoo.come.) it wont detect this and will add the wrong link!

    So, I prefer a URL validator for pattern. What I sent catches all these and only passed the validated URL.

RIGHT!

I differ in ASSUMING the link IN is VALID. I don't want to deal with naughty boys.

That is part of the value of showing the TITLE & LINK for edit though, so you can DISCARD errant boys.

Personally I am NOT inclined to parse links for  perfection. 

What if they are in Chinese? 

The issue with your extra parsing is it I do not think it is entirely fair? 

Just a question!!!

TT, x

[Mohammad Rahmani]

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 1:00 AM TiddlyTweeter <Tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

 Mohammad wrote:

Hi TT,

 

In my own testing so far this more minimal regex seems to work ... !!

•  pattern="^\ *(https?|ftp|file|news|data|mailto):.+$

Lovely! one minor comment:

1. I like to check the validity of links! So if one drops something like this (http.yahoo.com) or this (yahoo.come.) it wont detect this and will add the wrong link!

    So, I prefer a URL validator for pattern. What I sent catches all these and only passed the validated URL.

RIGHT!

I differ in ASSUMING the link IN is VALID. I don't want to deal with naughty boys.

That is part of the value of showing the TITLE & LINK for edit though, so you can DISCARD errant boys.

Yes, this is very handy!

 

Personally I am NOT inclined to parse links for  perfection. 

What if they are in Chinese? 

Yep, that is a problem! The solution does work most of the time as you use English URL much more!

 

The issue with your extra parsing is it I do not think it is entirely fair? 

Just a question!!!

TT, x

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[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

I got VERY interested in what you doing on this  ...

I added to the Pattern so the local system wiki could be included too ...

 pattern="^\ *(\$|https?|ftp|file|news|data|mailto):.+$"

It is NOT a solution as the trim [] makes $: unusable.

BUT my key point is that your concept behind this tool idea is right-on-the-ball.

It is a very elegant, simple, idea that I hope will develop into a full-scale utility!

Best wishes

TT

[Mohammad Rahmani]

On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 8:45 PM TiddlyTweeter <Tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

Ciao Mohammad

Hi TT,

I got VERY interested in what you doing on this  ...

Thank you!

I added to the Pattern so the local system wiki could be included too ...

 pattern="^\ *(\$|https?|ftp|file|news|data|mailto):.+$"

This is your area of expertise! I tested your proposed pattern and it works fine for me!

It is NOT a solution as the trim [] makes $: unusable.

The trim[] can be replaced with a remove prefix or split[], but it is the simplest!

I did not get what the issue is with $!

 

BUT my key point is that your concept behind this tool idea is right-on-the-ball.

It is a very elegant, simple, idea that I hope will develop into a full-scale utility!

 

Best wishes

TT

Thank you TT

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/0ed7f98d-0890-465e-91af-04c577b8c4d9n%40googlegroups.com.

[TiddlyTweeter]

TiddlyTweeter  wrote:

I added to the Pattern so the local system wiki could be included too ...

 pattern="^\ *(\$|https?|ftp|file|news|data|mailto):.+$"

 

Mohammad wrote: 

This is your area of expertise! I tested your proposed pattern and it works fine for me!

It is NOT a solution as the trim [] makes $: unusable.

The trim[] can be replaced with a remove prefix or split[], but it is the simplest!

I did not get what the issue is with $!

The problem is, at the moment, the link gets truncated to ONLY the first part of the address ... here is an example ...

  

For LOCAL wiki I think that is a problem?

Best wishes

TT

[Mohammad]

Do you drag the link from browser address bar?

[TiddlyTweeter]

NO. NOT for those internal links. I simply d-n-d from  within the wiki itself. 

Mohammad asked:

[Mohammad Rahmani]

On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 11:07 PM TiddlyTweeter <Tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

NO. NOT for those internal links. I simply d-n-d from  within the wiki itself. 

Okay! As I assumed Bookmarker is used to bookmark external links! For me external links work fine!
You can check the type of item (dragged and dropped item) to see if it is a tiddler and then you can take better / separate action.

 

Mohammad asked:

Do you drag the link from browser address bar?

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[TiddlyTweeter]

TiddlyTweeter <Tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

NO. NOT for those internal links. I simply d-n-d from  within the wiki itself. 

Mohammad wrote: 

Okay! As I assumed Bookmarker is used to bookmark external links! For me external links work fine!
You can check the type of item (dragged and dropped item) to see if it is a tiddler and then you can take better / separate action.

Right. BUT. Both External AND Internal links are needed for optimal use! 

The issue is OFTEN I have a LOCAL tiddler I want to associate with an EXTERNAL link.

I think, practically, using ONE method for BOTH is the best way??? :-)

Just a comment, TT 

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Agree! I mean you can check the action macro in your code! It can check if the dropped item is a tiddler (internal) or it is an external link!

Then take the proper actions

Just a comment, TT 

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[TW Tones]

I understood the TT issue correctly, or I can imagine another;

 a link from one wiki https://tiddlywiki.com/#Community could result in a link [[Community]] in a destination drop zone, this makes me think of absolute and relative links encountered in Excel or other spreadsheets. This is useful if you want to drag a tiddler "reference" in one wiki to another mostly to point to system tiddlers. Perhaps alt-drag could drop tiddlers with the url component removed. This is also helpful when writing and dropping titles into content and especially documenting tiddlywiki customisations and hacks.

Tones

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

Rather than "trim" I did an experiment with the newish search-replace operator 

{{{ [<url>search-replace:gi:regexp[^ *(https?://(www\.)?|ftp:///|file:///.+/|news:|mailto:|\$:.+/)],[]] }}} 

Still in testing! It needs work yet. BUT the advantage is you can truncate links for "title" according to each case.

It seems to work better for local links ...

[TiddlyTweeter]

UPDATE: This is slightly better: {{{ [<url>search-replace:gi:regexp[^ *(https?://(www\.)?|ftp:///|file:///.+/|news:|mailto:|\$:.*/)],[]] }}} 

[Mohammad Rahmani]

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 1:55 PM TiddlyTweeter <Tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

UPDATE: This is slightly better: {{{ [<url>search-replace:gi:regexp[^ *(https?://(www\.)?|ftp:///|file:///.+/|news:|mailto:|\$:.*/)],[]] }}} 

YES! I tested and it works fine for me!

Thank you

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[TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad wrote:

3. Regarding the data of access, yes you can remove it, but I think APA7 recommend having the access date!

Right! 

Both APA & Chicago citation style manuals, correctly, for full citation from the web, need the "access date" adding.

If you don't need that kind of bibliographic detail then it is not needed.

Best wishes

TT

 

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad wrote:

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 1:55 PM TiddlyTweeter <Tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

UPDATE: This is slightly better: {{{ [<url>search-replace:gi:regexp[^ *(https?://(www\.)?|ftp:///|file:///.+/|news:|mailto:|\$:.*/)],[]] }}} 

YES! I tested and it works fine for me!

Good! 

In playing with your tool I do think having a reveal that appears once you d-n-d an address to allow you to edit both the Index and Value is a good idea.

One use case where it would be essential would be for RELATIVE addresses (they would need always to be edited manually). 

The advantage of relative addressing is that it will work both offline locally AND online for a site with the same structure of files. 

Could be useful in having just one system for creating portable INTER-PAGE linkage?

Just a comment

TT

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi Josiah,

 I did some modification with respect to your latest request. But I myself prefer to edit the new bookmark in its own tiddler

 the reason is the current solution may overwrite if you have another tiddler with the modified title

Changes

1. use latest pattern by TT
2. use latest filter by TT
3. shows an edit area on dropping a new url

Best wishes

Mohammad

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[TiddlyTweeter]

 Mohammad wrote:

 I did some modification with respect to your latest request.

Thankyou!

 

But I myself prefer to edit the new bookmark in its own tiddler

 the reason is the current solution may overwrite if you have another tiddler with the modified title

 Right! For your purpose that is much better!

I have more thought on the design IF you want more! Let me know.

Very best

TT

[TW Tones]

Mohammad,

Thanks for your work on this. I just wanted to share/dump some thoughts that we may consider.

• I support the idea of tiddler per link because there are many ways in which a drag can create a tiddler
  • Examples include in projectify and Streams, from the side bar, dragging items from bookmarks, the browser address bar and more
• With a tiddler having a title of protocol:// eg http:// 
  • we need then to convert it to a clickable link such as moving it to a field and building a link icon
• This link > tiddler title is the easiest dare we say native behaviour, So my thoughts are to build a title handling tool on which bookmarking tools can leverage the title ands the following; As I have done in the past, testing a title (or any string/line for that matter) for known prefixes even suffixes may be the way to go.
  • So we can test a title for prefixes http/https/mailto/ftp/file etc
  • Suffixes .jpg/ .png/  .htm/.html/index.html/"/" also lets us further characterise tiddler titles sourced from URL/URI's
  • We can even test for prefixes and suffixes 
    • with domains "https://tiddlywiki.com" and paths "https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/discussions"
    • or tiddlers #tiddlername
    • or [[myfilter]]

The advantage of such an approach would be keeping all the ease of drag and drop and processing titles into bookmarks as and when needed.

• A recent discussion about compound fields would allow the transfer of titles into fields eg url, url..name, url..target this can then be opened to allow one tiddler to have multiple urls such as discussion-link discussion-link..name discussion-link..target then we can present icons for all the named url or *-link on a tiddler.
• Another discussion was around generating titles, for example extract the domain (and an increment) as the tiddler title after saving the link to field(s)

This is brief I know, happy to discuss further.

Tones

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Tones & Mohammad

TW Tones wrote:

• • So we can test a title for prefixes http/https/mailto/ftp/file etc
  • Suffixes .jpg/ .png/  .htm/.html/index.html/"/" also lets us further characterise tiddler titles sourced from URL/URI's
  • We can even test for prefixes and suffixes 
    • with domains "https://tiddlywiki.com" and paths "https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/discussions"
    • or tiddlers #tiddlername
    • or [[myfilter]]

RIGHT.

Matching via Regular Expressions any of those patterns would be pretty easy.

The ISSUE, I think, is DIFFERENTIATION. 

Is a dropzone for EVERYTHING?

Dropzone as Mohammad made will (correctly) IGNORE anything that does not match pattern.

Tones, as the multi-armed Shiva, wants breakfast and lunch simultaneously :-).

Let me comment with a precise example ...

I want to capture links from YouTube and I DO NOT need the root. Actually I only need the SPECIFIC IDENTIFIER. 

    So <root><mode><identifier>

For example The Hutterite Mile

We strip off root and mode, either from ...

     https://www.youtube.com/embed/n_Uvh_Ts62U

OR from ...

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Uvh_Ts62U

It would be EASY to capture from d-n-d just "n_Uvh_Ts62U" from either.

I think the point is that the APP for this kind of d-n-d is related to PURPOSE.

My question: ONE dropzone, or several?  What is the dropzone FOR?

In the spirit of discussion!

TT

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Please share, someone my take quicker action ;-)

Very best

TT

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[Mohammad Rahmani]

@Tones

I see some useful ideas in your post! but we need to separate them and see how we can tackle them

@TT

I think we need a proper regex pattern to handle these cases like youtube links ( a great example)

Still I am not clear how you drop a tiddler on the same dropzone and why not use a simple title link?

If they are from some local wikis, then why not use the searchwikis tool! note folder and name can simply be changed and then all those bookmarks need to be revised!

Best wishes

Mohammad

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[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao

The whole thread is very interesting! It touches on a lot of things. Unfortunately my mind is going in different directions :-(.

I'm trying to think what an INTEGRATED LINK HARVESTER would look like? 

ONE interface, multiple methods?

For instance to capture page TITLES, not just urls, in WikiText format, I hacked a browser BOOKMARKLET [very easy to do even if you don't know JavaScript] that will let you copy the URL and the TITLE ...

(Only tested on desktop FF & Chrome ...) Just indicative of a extra way we might look into?

Bookmark name: Copy link as WikiText

URL:  javascript:text='[['+document.title+'|'+location.href+']]';window.prompt('Copy to clipboard: Ctrl+C, Enter',text);false

 I will write later about other aspects.

Best wishes

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad ...

... Footnote to my last ... in browser the experimental Bookmarklet for WikiLink versions of title/url looks like this ...

[TW Tones]

Folks,

Just to supplement the drag and drop conversation I wanted to point out a few more methods I use

• If you download a wiki simply clicking on it will open it in the browser (no need for opening your file manger)
• If you download a plugin or JSON in Chrome (listed at bottom) or FireFox (behind download button) you can simply drag from the browser downloads on top of a wiki  (no need for opening your file manger).
• You can load a set of tiddlers into a bookmarklet, on any site click to install (download) that content to the current tiddler. A Quick and easy method to build bookmarklets to drop on your favourites/bookmarks could be another interwiki transfer method. 
• Bookmarklets themselves can be dragged between Browsers such as FireFox and Chrome to wikis or bookmarks.

I would also like to see the existing zip mechaisium used to allow the dropping of tiddler into a wiki stored zip file. Ideally these activities can be design to use consistent interfaces and methods so learning one helps you learn another.

I can confirm it would be possible to be able to drop tiddlers into a plugin with a little design.

Regards

Tones

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi TT,

 

Very nice, simple and semantic!

If I have found free time, I will look in my collection of bookmarklets! I think there are several solutions, one of them works with Node.JS and is very similar to TiddlyClip!

Best wishes

Mohammad

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[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi Tones!

Thank you for this!

On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 3:56 AM TW Tones <anthony...@gmail.com> wrote:

Folks,

Just to supplement the drag and drop conversation I wanted to point out a few more methods I use

• If you download a wiki simply clicking on it will open it in the browser (no need for opening your file manger)
• If you download a plugin or JSON in Chrome (listed at bottom) or FireFox (behind download button) you can simply drag from the browser downloads on top of a wiki  (no need for opening your file manger).
• You can load a set of tiddlers into a bookmarklet, on any site click to install (download) that content to the current tiddler. A Quick and easy method to build bookmarklets to drop on your favourites/bookmarks could be another interwiki transfer method. 

I did not understand this solution! Would you please explain this!

• Bookmarklets themselves can be dragged between Browsers such as FireFox and Chrome to wikis or bookmarks.

I would also like to see the existing zip mechaisium used to allow the dropping of tiddler into a wiki stored zip file. Ideally these activities can be design to use consistent interfaces and methods so learning one helps you learn another.

I can confirm it would be possible to be able to drop tiddlers into a plugin with a little design.

Regards

Tones

On Monday, 17 May 2021 at 19:35:54 UTC+10 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Mohammad ...

... Footnote to my last ... in browser the experimental Bookmarklet for WikiLink versions of title/url looks like this ...

On Monday, 17 May 2021 at 11:27:35 UTC+2 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Ciao

The whole thread is very interesting! It touches on a lot of things. Unfortunately my mind is going in different directions :-(.

I'm trying to think what an INTEGRATED LINK HARVESTER would look like? 

ONE interface, multiple methods?

For instance to capture page TITLES, not just urls, in WikiText format, I hacked a browser BOOKMARKLET [very easy to do even if you don't know JavaScript] that will let you copy the URL and the TITLE ...

(Only tested on desktop FF & Chrome ...) Just indicative of a extra way we might look into?

Bookmark name: Copy link as WikiText

URL:  javascript:text='[['+document.title+'|'+location.href+']]';window.prompt('Copy to clipboard: Ctrl+C, Enter',text);false

 I will write later about other aspects.

Best wishes

TT

On Sunday, 16 May 2021 at 10:09:21 UTC+2 Mohammad wrote:

Please share, someone my take quicker action ;-)

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[TW Tones]

Mohammad et all.

On Tuesday, 18 May 2021 at 16:03:45 UTC+10 Mohammad wrote:

Just to supplement the drag and drop conversation I wanted to point out a few more methods I use

• If you download a wiki simply clicking on it will open it in the browser (no need for opening your file manger)
• If you download a plugin or JSON in Chrome (listed at bottom) or FireFox (behind download button) you can simply drag from the browser downloads on top of a wiki  (no need for opening your file manger).
• You can load a set of tiddlers into a bookmarklet, on any site click to install (download) that content to the current tiddler. A Quick and easy method to build bookmarklets to drop on your favourites/bookmarks could be another interwiki transfer method. 

I did not understand this solution! Would you please explain this!

Sure. 

As a tiddlywiki user I deal with html files (wikis) and plugins and JSON files all the time. Thus any work flow improvements are welcome. 

If you want to get something, the typical approaches are;

• Drag from one wiki to another
• Download a file then open it in the file system and drag and drop it
• After downloading import the desired file to your current tiddlywiki

However the modern browsers allow you to download a file (no where particular like the downloads folder), the recently downloaded file is listed in down loads, and you can open it from there OR drag a file from there and drop it on a wiki in the browser tab.

Lets say I come across a new plugin or a json tiddler, I just want to test.

1. Go to tiddlywiki.com and download empty.html
2. Go to the download manager and open it (empty.htm) opens in a tab)
3. Go to the link and download the resource (file plugin etc) you want
4. Now drag this recently downloaded resource (file) onto the tab with empty html
5. With Timimi installed I can save and reload and test the plugin
6. If I am happy with that I close the tab and forget about it.
7. Also this takes place in a single browser and tab, I have no need to visit the file system

Of course

1. If drag and drop is a available I use it.
2. If I want to retain the result I may rename and move it!
3. If something is in your download manger it can be dropped on multiple wikis without leaving the browser.

Futures

1. Drag /download  " objects from one wiki to another" such as todos and streams and more
   1. Test data and more

Regards

Tones

[TiddlyTweeter]

TW Tones wrote ...

1. Drag /download  " objects from one wiki to another" such as todos and streams and more ...

Right!

The one aspect of your post that needs beefing is to clarify there is MORE THAN ONE THING INVOLVED.

HOW to develop a consistent conformity? Do ALL things get dragged to the SAME ZONE?

As far as I can see DROP ZONES need to be "incoming primed" to be effective?

Let us try open this up more!

Best wishes

TT

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Thank you Tones for clarification!

Good point!

Best wishes

Mohammad

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[TW Tones]

TT,

I understand your concern.
MORE THAN ONE THING INVOLVED?

First I am focusing on dragging anything and it "is or becomes a tiddler" or something according to where you drop it, including a JSON tiddler and plugins.

Yes it depends on where you drop it.

Just for context I am using the recent bucket, streams and Projectify and dragging things all over the place. Bucket is a a holding space.

The point being many, if not most, dropzones accept a title, then we can handle that as we wish. External links dropped may become unfriendly titles, however I am looking at parsing titles and generating nicer ones, moving the old title into a tiddler field.

I hope that helps?

Tones

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad wrote ...

If I have found free time, I will look in my collection of bookmarklets! I think there are several solutions, one of them works with Node.JS and is very similar to TiddlyClip!

Right! I certainly think that having a collection of bookmarklets for use alongside TW could be very useful. I think it is worth looking into as they can assemble data we need for TW linking that TW cannot itself do (for example getting the title of a page as well as its url). We could maybe go further and capture other data and page content too through bookmarklets?

Right also on TiddlyClip! I think there is a lot that can be learned, and maybe used, from it.

Best wishes

TT 

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao TW Tones

TW Tones wrote: ...

First I am focusing on dragging anything and it "is or becomes a tiddler" or something according to where you drop it, including a JSON tiddler and plugins.

Yes it depends on where you drop it.

Just for context I am using the recent bucket, streams and Projectify and dragging things all over the place. Bucket is a a holding space.

... however I am looking at parsing titles and generating nicer ones, moving the old title into a tiddler field.

Right! Needed in many cases.

At the basic level A "dropzone" will launch a MINI-PARSER that facilitates that. 

As Mohammad's OP developed in this thread it got clearer that for capturing outside links, and maybe page content too,   then need some processing.

My point here is that its not so clear yet what exactly the process is. OR to what extent you need Purpose Specific Dropzones.

IMO I think its getting important to better differentiate specific aims.

For instance, in my own case, I am most interested in harvesting links from a limited number of sources to data dictionaries. 

An example is a student of CINEMA needs to always refer to IMDB.com as it is the de-facto canonical source for movie data.

SO, for those students, a dropzone purely for IMDB makes most sense. 

You get my point? 

I think defining end use purposes matters quite a lot in know what to build!

Best wishes

TT

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mohammad

I wanted to revisit the OP and reflect on what we learned so far ... 

Just my opinions ...

• I think having a REVEAL after drop to show the input is very useful for editing links.
• It MIGHT, for the purposes of the OP (letting students collect research bookmarks) that on REVEAL of the item to be added there is ALSO option to ADD a second TAG ... So, for instance, if they were studying cinema that could have both "Bookmark" AND ADD "Movie-Source" OR "IMDB-title", according to need?
• Finally, I also wonder if a simple entry field might need adding into which to PASTE a full link/title (as I made with the bookmarklet example). Those can't be dragged. But copy and paste, once the Bookmarklet has run, is almost as fast. 

My idea here is ONE interface that uses the SAME underlying MINI-PARSER and TEMP tiddler so either method would work. In other words BOTH a Dropzone and a Field to paste into. Hope this is clear!

My thoughts so far :-)

Best wishes

TT

On Saturday, 8 May 2021 at 20:58:45 UTC+2 Mohammad wrote:

While drag and drop is not a new feature in Tiddlywiki, but it is a bit tricky to develop tools based on it.

There are a lot of great use cases for it [1]. This feature has  recently been improved [2] and there is still work in progress to address issues and make it more powerful!

I am working on a resource to demystify the drag-N-drop in Tiddlywiki lets all users use and customize it in their development for different purposes!

Please kindly share your scripts, tools, and examples for drag-N-drop in Tiddlywiki. I will do 

Best wishes

Mohammad

Ref

[1] https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/dDMG3Ocb29s/m/J0hYKp0qBAAJ

[2] https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/OR48TT_loB8/m/OY3LMOrDBAAJ

[TiddlyTweeter]

MISCELLANEOUS IDEAS ...

Because of the potential of D-N-D to simplify common procedures I think it worth reflecting of different aspect of integrating its UI ... Here are a few ideas ...

1. Design a TW ONLY to collect links and tag and fill in any extra data. EMBED that TW in an IFRAME in any wiki that occasionally needs to collect links. The Design of the LINK-COLLECTOR Wiki uses CSS to maximise screen estate so that once embedded it is easy to use in the host wiki. Provide Export mechanism so that they collected links can be imported as needed into the "host" wiki.
2. Design a macro of form:  <<linkCollect pattern="regex input parse" process="regex mini-parser code to change input">> so that you can easily create custom dropzones with special actions without needing multiple macros.
3. Detect via the INFO mechanism (needs the official environment sniffer plugin) whether the d-n-d is running on DESKTOP or on SMART-PHONE (auto adjust behaviour/presentation to suit).
4. Consider IF, in design, an additional EDIT field slot is needed so that you can ALSO cut and paste (this would feed into the same parsers defined at [2]) as well as D-n-D.

Just thoughts!

[TiddlyTweeter]

TECHNICAL ISSUES ON D-N-D

Whilst D-n-D is a lot better on browsers that it used to be there can definitely still be issues just getting it to work.

We need to understand these BETTER and solve them.

I STILL cannot get your examples to work on Firefox (latest). I am unclear WHY? It is likely some setting in the config of the browser? I am not sure. 

Eventually I'll work it out. But it is not a good sign. A normal user expects stuff to just work.

D-n-D on mobile is very useful to have (ALL students work on phones on their way to college :-). Obviously, in a touch-screen-environment, with pages not showing tabs, is quite different than Desktop. 

TBH this needs to be thought into more! 

How can we make a smart-phone TW UI work optimally for D-n-D of links?

Side comments

TT

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi TT,

I like all your comments and ideas!

Part of them can be addressed using Wikitex (where I understand the code) and part can be implemented with JS.

So, I have created an entry in my Tiddlywiki-Lab and collected your ideas!

By the way let's see if we can get other opinion ideas helping to implement these!

Best wishes

Mohammad

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[TW Tones]

Mohammad et al,

Have you used the free OneTab addon for Chrome and Firefox? It allows you to close all unpinned tiddlers with a click. Then one tab lists these closed tabs as links which you can open each with a click.

Now I mention it because it is a great way to collect a vast list if links while researching something or any thing, even local wiki addresses serviced by Timimi for example file:///C:/Data/TW5/!CustomiseWikiText/V0.8.0.html

You can export all links in one action. Links are of the form;

https://github.com/morosanuae/tw-icons/discussions | Discussions · morosanuae/tw-icons

• you can see the pipe "|" divides the url from the label, but they are the wrong way around.
• I have seen this format a few times, swap and wrap in [[ ]] and remove spacesa either saide of the [pipe and you have A url and pretty link

Ca the current tools be made to accommodate;

• This format pasted as a list 
• Dragging from the One Tab, seems not to allow drop on tiddlywqiki.com

Regards

Tones

[TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad wrote:

So, I have created an entry in my Tiddlywiki-Lab and collected your ideas!

Ha! Is that on GitHub? If do does it have a discussion?

I'd be happy to carry on with this thread there.

Best wishes, TT 

[TiddlyTweeter]

 TW Tones wrote (edited by TT):

Have you used ... OneTab addon for Chrome and Firefox? ... close all unpinned tabs with a click.

Then one tab lists these tabs as links which you can open each with a click.

Now I mention it because it is a great way to collect a vast list if links 

 Right! Interesting.

The way I think about that is it is BULK LINK collation. I think it would be quite easy to transfer the output of OneTab to TW.

BUT the BULK aspect is intense. 

IMO we could make a GENERIC PARSER of links that could parse such a source and others too.

I think the result would be better held in a Data Dictionary than zillions of tiddlers.

The Dictionary could be PASS ONE and any item you needed differentiated to a single Tiddler from click on an item in that Dictionary.

Hope this is clear!

Thoughts,

TT

[Mohammad Rahmani]

No it is a local repo! but I create a GitHub repo for this!

Best wishes, TT 

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[Mohammad Rahmani]

Best wishes

Mohammad

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 12:46 PM TiddlyTweeter <Tiddly...@assays.tv> wrote:

 TW Tones wrote (edited by TT):

Have you used ... OneTab addon for Chrome and Firefox? ... close all unpinned tabs with a click.

Then one tab lists these tabs as links which you can open each with a click.

Now I mention it because it is a great way to collect a vast list if links 

 Right! Interesting.

The way I think about that is it is BULK LINK collation. I think it would be quite easy to transfer the output of OneTab to TW.

I did an experiment:

1. I exported the bookmarks from Chrome using (Bookmark manager)

2. You can export from FF or Edge

3. The exported bookmark is an html with `<!DOCTYPE NETSCAPE-Bookmark-file-1>`

4. Dropping it in Tiddlywiki, a Tiddler with type html is created

5. All links work! Shift+Click opens the links in a new window!

I think we need to use a dropzone area with a deserializer to extract all the bookmarks! We can also use wikitext but it is tough to extract those bookmarks!

Let's open another thread and see what advice we receive!

--Mohammad

 

BUT the BULK aspect is intense. 

IMO we could make a GENERIC PARSER of links that could parse such a source and others too.

I think the result would be better held in a Data Dictionary than zillions of tiddlers.

The Dictionary could be PASS ONE and any item you needed differentiated to a single Tiddler from click on an item in that Dictionary.

Hope this is clear!

Thoughts,

TT

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[Mohammad]

Hi TT,

 See this thread https://groups.google.com/g/tiddlywiki/c/37B5uhgbJwE/m/UQjhtV42BgAJ