GGrexit did not happen. SO, make the best of GG. #1

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Since we are basically stuck, right now, in Google Groups let's document more about finding things and get better at it ...

Hey, maybe someone might even write a TiddlyWiki that makes searching GG easier :-)

Okay, take a case. I want to find plugins or macros that utilise "regular expressions".

1 — Initial search "regular expression" ... not so great as it lists results from 2013. I want to focus on more recent things ...

---

2 — Date delimited. after:2016/01/01 "regular expression" ... looking better, but is there a plugin?

---

3 — Plugin tag. Date limited. after:2016/01/01 "regular expression" tag:plugin ... seems a good starting place to look ... as does after:2016/01/01 "regular expression" tag:macro

I will start with these and expand the search if they prove to not give what I need.

Conclusion: not too bad so far.

TT

[@TiddlyTweeter]

repeat for email.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Taking this a bit further ... I happen to know that Mohammad got interested in regular expression via Tiddler Commander, and made a TW just for regex. I also know that Mark S. is good with regular expressions. I'd like to see all but only what they wrote on the subject ... but not interested before 2018. 

Here is a start ... Its not prefect, but its much better than what I was doing before ...

after:2018/01/01 authorname:"mohammad" OR authorname:"Mark S." "regular expressions" OR "regexp" OR "splitregexp"

Best wishes

TT

[Mohammad]

Hi Josiah,

 Many thanks! Great tips for searching GG.  I think many of us don't know hoe to find something in forum!

While this forum has a lot of interesting solutions and need to be explored! 

--Mohammad

[Mohammad]

May be with the search tools created by A. Gloom one can directly search this forum from TW.

On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 1:10:15 PM UTC+3:30, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

[HansWobbe]

@TiddlyTweeter

I think this will become an effective methodology.  Good work, Josiah!

Cheers,

Hans

[Mark S.]

I didn't know that these search options were available. GG was not very forthcoming re the search options.

Maybe this should be a stickie ?

[A Gloom]

I'm in the process of refining the Collective GG search tiddler (there's actually a separate Group only search tiddler for sidebar and story river) to include title, author fields (& other Google search operators, which are many) and tags in addition to the date/revelance toggle it already has

[HansWobbe]

@A_Gloom

That sounds like it would be very useful.

Regards,

Hans

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Probably. I do a bit more testing and add some other operators  & examples and post it.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Gloom

Maybe in a post "How to find things in this group" I'll finish up on soon, I could put a direct link to your search tool for GG?

TT

[A Gloom]

The current tags have been incorporate into the search for a drop down select menu-- works-- will list threads by selected tag

but the tag search is seperate from search term atm

finishing search title & author

and have Google Groups displaying in a tiddler

[A Gloom]

testing success for incorporationg TT's ideas, in a lil bit we'll have

TW GOOGLE GROUPS SEARCH
PAGE LINK GENERATOR:
with TiddlyTweeter search

: D

[A Gloom]

AND

top AND secret

OR

secret OR hidden

NOT

NOT secret

didn't seem to work but -secret did

*

at end not begining of search term
sec*

SOURCE: https://support.google.com/vault/answer/2474474?hl=en

[A Gloom]

@TT

play with this search query

re* authorname:mohammad

[@TiddlyTweeter]

You are dead right that some of the operators that are "documented around" don't work. 

It's frustrating there is no clear current documentation on web I can find. 

I'm testing at moment.

TT

[A Gloom]

 

You are dead right that some of the operators that are "documented around" don't work. 

It's frustrating there is no clear current documentation on web I can find.

Yeah, I have multiple references and all have ref's that Google depreciated/discontinued-- that's the issue also-- the search operators changing

The new GG search link generator with TiddlyTweeter search : D

3 modes:

--- select choices (OR AND NOT * can be typed with search term)

--- type in using macro format (ie: group searchterm author afterdate sort)

--- listed by tag only (didn't get to adding tag to search function)

the heart of it

\define twgroupsbsearch(twgroup,twgsterm,twgauth,twgafter,twgsort,linktitle)
<a href="https://groups.google.com/forum/?&fromgroups#!searchin/$twgroup$/$twgsterm$$20authorname$3A$twgauth$$20after$3A$twgafter$|sort:$twgsort$" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><$list filter="$linktitle$">$linktitle$</$list><$reveal type="match" default="" text="$linktitle$"></$reveal>
\end

link:  https://groups.google.com/forum/?&fromgroups#!searchin/tiddlywiki/set$20widget$20filter$20authorname$3Amohammad$20after$3A2019-8-5%7Csort:relevance

search bar equivalent: set widget filter authorname:mohammad after:2019-8-5

\define twgroupsbsearchtag(twgroup,twgtag,,linktitle)
<a href="https://groups.google.com/forum/#!tags/$twgroup$/$twgtag$" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><$list filter="$linktitle$">$linktitle$</$list><$reveal type="match" default="" text="$linktitle$"></$reveal>
\end

link:  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!tags/tiddlywiki/newbie

[@TiddlyTweeter]

A Gloom wrote:

 The new GG search link generator with TiddlyTweeter search : D

:-)

 

--- listed by tag only (didn't get to adding tag to search function)

Online one can just click  tag:whatever   on a tag at top of thread to filter to that tag (e.g. for "plugin" tag ... https://groups.google.com/forum/#!tags/tiddlywiki/plugin). But that won't help when you need more than one  tag. For that you'd need a proper search construct.

TT

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao A Gloom,

I made a few changes in doc I'm writing for GG after looking and testing your latest .tid.

(Really excellent).

In particular, it now has "YYYY-MM-DD" format for after: & before: rather than the "/" syntax.

A dopo.

TT

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Gloom

Small cosmetic point ... the link color here is not readily readable ...

Best

TT

[A Gloom]

hello

 

Small cosmetic point ... the link color here is not readily readable ...

Actually I consider more than small-- tyvm for pointing it out (with my system theme I have custom link colors so I would had never noticed)-- that is 'cause of using html link tag which gives it default link color (blue).  I shall correct that-- I believe I could apply whatever class TW/theme uses for link colors (to make it blend in with the wiki's theme),

I went with the year-month-day format 'cause the "/" of the other format broke the macro (and I couldn't remember how I url encoded things into macros atm)

[A Gloom]

should I have the link match sidebar links or external links?

.tc-sidebar-lists a.tc-tiddlylink { color: #999999; }

.tc-sidebar-lists a.tc-tiddlylink:hover { color: #444444; }

button.tc-tiddlylink:hover, a.tc-tiddlylink:hover { text-decoration: underline; }

a.tc-tiddlylink-resolves { }

a.tc-tiddlylink-shadow { font-weight: bold; }

a.tc-tiddlylink-shadow.tc-tiddlylink-resolves { font-weight: normal; }

a.tc-tiddlylink-missing { font-style: italic; }

a.tc-tiddlylink-external { text-decoration: underline; color: #0000ee; background-color: inherit; }

a.tc-tiddlylink-external:visited { color: #0000aa; background-color: inherit; }

a.tc-tiddlylink-external:hover { color: inherit; background-color: inherit; }

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Looking at referencescollective as  currently online I don't think is matters a great deal which way you go on this. The point is you provide contextual labels that explain what is going on.

Best wishes

TT  

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Gloom

I saw in your References Collective the great amount of research you have done into Google Search syntax!

FYI, I've spent half a day testing searches using the GG search syntax.

Though the search mechanism, when used with what published syntax there is, performs a bunch better than with no syntax at all, its obvious after a while that still the results are often less than optimal. 

Odd things happen like sometimes "TermA OR TermB OR TermC" actually narrows searches rather than widens them. Fathoming the logic without controlled test data is a McGuffin.

I am going to do a comparison with MailArchive.com to see if it searches in a way that works more predictably.

Just letting you know :-)

TT

On Monday, 28 October 2019 10:20:53 UTC+1, A Gloom wrote:

[A Gloom]

Though the search mechanism, when used with what published syntax there is, performs a bunch better than with no syntax at all, its obvious after a while that still the results are often less than optimal.

Odd things happen like sometimes "TermA OR TermB OR TermC" actually narrows searches rather than widens them. Fathoming the logic without controlled test data is a McGuffin.

yes, it can be very unprediictable-- Google has been struggling with it themselves even

also play here-- https://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=tiddlywiki+group&hl=en

 

I am going to do a comparison with MailArchive.com to see if it searches in a way that works more predictably.

 very good idea, its setup for searching GG posts, why I included it when I saw the note about it at the top of the Group page here

[A Gloom]

Here's something else to toy with

authormsg:tiddlywiki,JqnEje7lAQAJ after:2019/10/1 before:2019/11/1

[@TiddlyTweeter]

A Gloom wrote: 

Me wrote: I am going to do a comparison with MailArchive.com to see if it searches in a way that works more predictably.

 very good idea, its setup for searching GG posts ...

Result...

1 - (Upside) its much more reliable than GG search. It doesn't try to be over clever. Very useful for that!

2 - (Downside) it presented only old style "Listserv" plain text. So any post with images, emphasis, or nice design, gets, reduced to very poor, often messy, verbiage.

TT 

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Regarding TOPICS / SUBJECTS its worth noting that GG provides both Atom & RSS newsfeeds (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!aboutgroup/tiddlywiki,15 or 50 online at any one time [though, of course, a newsreader can archive infinite numbers]) ...  

Some of them search quite well (mainly the subject) ...

https://theoldreader.com/

https://feedly.com/ 

Not entirely irrelevant ... 

TT 

[A Gloom]

@TT

I made the fiirst search link -" • • SEARCH_LINK_FOR • •" underneath "Sort by"- to use class tc-tiddlylink -- the others are still default/unchanged-- let me know if its more readable

I believe that wll also apply any custom theme colors for links

[@TiddlyTweeter]

A Gloom

Looks good! Unfortunately I'm still seeing the below ... First link fine. Second still in old mode.

(I hate the internet :-)

Best wishes

TT

[@TiddlyTweeter]

A Gloom

I wanted to comment that you made (I think!) the individual searching Tiddlers in your ReferencesCollective "independent". Yes?

What I mean is: you can drag-n-drop just one into another wiki and it works---it is not dependent on other tiddlers.
For that kind of app I think that is a very good approach.

My point? Maybe mention that in docs! I am sure that users will often need search for one resource, not everything?

Thoughts

TT 

[A Gloom]

@TT

LINK COLOR

Yep, only the first link was modified for the new link color, the other 2 were left as originally colored for comparison. They will be fixed once I get a color figured out, You use a dark background palette/theme? I assume this new color will work with default palettes since it's the default internal link class/color (has default internal, external and sidebar link classes to choose from) and should inherit color from the user's chosen palette.

SEARCH TIDDLERS

Was thinking the same– having searches broken up so people could pick n choose which to use. The general references bookmarks, wikis search and GG groups search are separate. The search with in-wiki viewers are also separate tiddlers from their sidebar search only versions. Initially, the wikis and GG searches were separated into individual wiki,GG searches but they were consolidated into one wikis and one GG searches which I didn't think would impact users too much. The single wiki or GG search tiddlers are still included though.

The tiddlers I try to make self contained as much as possible– they have any custom macros defined internally rather than calls on external macros. The only search that is multi-part with external dependency is the ref wikis search which is 2 parts/tiddlers (bookmark editor and search section) with 4 data tiddlers. The search can still function without the editor (it's a transcluaion so its space woulg collapse and its absence wouldn't be noticed) and the data tiddlers (). The GG section at the bottom is a transclusion that only appears if the user has the consolidated GG search tiddler.

With some of the tiddlers in the collective you may notice a footer like this:

Copy & paste tiddler titles below into Advanced Search>Filter (tab) and export as JSON file (for multiple tiddlers) or TID (for single tiddlers):

[[Searches from wiki]] [[Search Google, Wikipedia, website in a tiddler]] [[Search TW5 Google Group in a tiddler]] [[Search TWcom in a tiddler]] [[search TWcom static pages]] [[Search Google definitions in a tiddler]] [[Google search tiddler]] [[Wikipedia search tiddler]] [[Wikipedia search tiddler viewer]] [[TW5 Google Group search tiddler]] [[TWcom search tiddler]] [[TWcom static page ToC/viewer]] [[TWcom static page search/viewer]]

it is for informing and making exporting tiddlers that have external dependencies a little easier till things get packaged as plugins.  I need to finish such footers from all tiddlers that require it.

[A Gloom]

EDIT:

The search can still function without ... the data tiddlers (the select a wiki, wiki info and ToC won't function), but the enter a wiki url would still work and searches can still be done through it.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

A Gloom wrote:

EDIT:

The search can still function without ... the data tiddlers (the select a wiki, wiki info and ToC won't function), but the enter a wiki url would still work and searches can still be done through it.

I been playing a bit with transporting single searchers to another wiki. It works pretty well.

It I get time I'll try do a demo. Can't promise. But I do think that being able to add one of two to a wiki could be a very useful thing. 

You did the hard graft that can benefit other slightly more limited uses, I think?

Best wishes

TT

[A Gloom]

@TT

I been playing a bit with transporting single searchers to another wiki. It works pretty well.

It I get time I'll try do a demo. Can't promise. But I do think that being able to add one of two to a wiki could be a very useful thing. 

You did the hard graft that can benefit other slightly more limited uses, I think?

Cool, would like to see it-- I'll check the single wiki searches and single & consolidated GG searches to see if I have updated them after putting up Ref Collective, I haven't updated it since I first put it up

you can be my eyes-- let me know how my tiddlers look with normal themes

there was the minor link color fix to the GG searches

I may put them here, cause I had problems with dragging n dropping to TiddlySpot

if you're wondering why Ref Collective is at the old GuideDoc's location, its because when I tried to drag n drop/import it to a fresh TiddlySpot wiki, the import caused a Javascript error which seem to ruin the existing wiki (viewing it brought up just the javascript error msg),  Did it with the wiki as well as a blank wiki from TWcom.  I was able to drag n drop onto the pre-existing GuideDocs wiki though.

[bimlas]

Many times, it seems as if my answers to the topics are not being received by those who only use mail instead of Google Groups. As a test, I ask that those who received this message in the form of a letter respond.

If Google Groups is "malfunctioning" then I think only TiddlyTweeter will get it.

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Bimlas

Regarding your query: Your post arrived both on the Web and via Email on my computer fine! :-).

This what I know for myself, and might be worth noting and be related to your concerns ...

• My FIRST post in a thread NEVER gets emailed, only posted to the Web GG. I have to post a second time on first posts to get them to those on email.

• It is proving very difficult to sort this issue out. I have not been able to get Google assistance that is clear about what to do.

• The way GG works is often obscure. What I DO know is that on email versions of TW my posts are getting flagged as "suspicious" by GG. I have no idea why.

Best wishes

TT

[A Gloom]

good thing for me since most of the devs monitor by email

so I don't have to worry about those sideways glances from them and them thinking "exactly... what... are you doing with our software...???" : )

[@TiddlyTweeter]

An issue on doing nice layouts for GG (like TidBits: TW5 TIPS) is that EMAIL users may be reading the post in the EMAIL DIGEST version.

I'm not yet clear if that degrades well enough to be workable for them as its a plain text format.

TT