Mountain Brookies Armory

[Dave Stephenson]

I ’m foolishly going to try to chase mountain brookies this season. I say foolishly because I will wrap a tree limb in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay casting to stripers. Question for all the mountain men and ladies; what is best rod length? I know I want a slow/full action ( thinking about glass) and probably a 3wt ( for a couple reasons), but is 7 foot too long? I know how much harder a shorter rod can be to cast, but a 7’9” seems too long for close quarters. I’ve spent a lot of time in the mountains and along those streams, just not too much trying to cast feathers into them. Has anyone tried the Moonshine Rods? In Murray’s Fly Shop I would trust but their mountain rods start north of $600. Something i’m not going to spend. Thoughts? Wisdom? Derision? Talk me out of it?

Dave
Washington

[Jeffrey Silvan]

I bought one of the cheapest rods I could find for brook trout. I think I paid around $100 for the rod/reel/line combo. Its a 7' 3wt, and works perfect in the mountains. The expensive rods will certainly cast better, but it's really not necessary for brook trout in my opinion.

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[Dave Stephenson]

7 ft works ok in the canopy?

Dave Stephenson 

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[Andrew Sarcinello]

I don't think rod length on small streams is as important as it is sometimes made out to be. Comes down to your personal preference. I've used a 7.5' and an 8.5' in some incredibly brushy places and actually prefer the 8.5'. A longer rod keeps more of your line off the water which means less chance of tangling in sticks in front of you and less drag on your fly.

On small streams my best advice for avoiding tree snags is to never cast directly overhead. Cast sidearm or with a bow and arrow cast. I still catch plenty of trees but they are almost all by casting too far and rarely behind or above me.

[Yambag Nelson]

I fish a 7 1/2 foot three weight. I've never felt like a shorter rod would be any better.

[Brian Cohen]

I bought a 7.5 weight three weight for small stream fishing a little over a year ago.  As a relative newbie, it turned out I didn't like it very much - it was hard to cast, and hard to control line/fly.  I ended up breaking it, and the replacement I bought was an 8.5 foot rod - like Andrew says above, and for the same reasons, I like the 8.5 better.

Brian

On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 9:28 AM Yambag Nelson <northstreet...@gmail.com> wrote:

I fish a 7 1/2 foot three weight.  I've never felt like a shorter rod would be any better.

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[Dave Stephenson]

Gents, thanks for the great insights.  You reminded me of how much trouble I had with a 5 foot ultralight spin rod and the improvement going to a 6 1/2 footer made.  I think I have settled on a path.  Appreciate it it all and hope to see you on the trail in a month or two!

Dave Stephenson 

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[Daniel Lazenby]

I use a (no longer offered) 6.5 foot 3 weight or a Cabelas 7.5 foot 4 weight. I do more bow and arrow or wrist flips than traditional casting. More than half of my brookie fishing  is dry with dropper or a single nymph. Lately the water I want always seems to be on the other side of the run. Beginning to think about a longer rod just for nymphing. 

Daniel

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[James McCeney]

I use anything from 6.5ft to 8.5 ft rods in 3, 4, and 5wt for brookies. The techniques for that water are kind of specialized- lots of bow and arrow casts, which shorter, glass rods will be better at, and literally reaching and hanging flies out from behind trees and big rocks, which longer rods are more suited to. The ideal rod is probably a 7.5-8ft slow glass rod with wf line.

My favorite rig is a Scott f2 6’6” 3wt with a Galvan Brookie reel. Some better fishermen than me have told me that their go-to for any water in SNP is an Orvis 8ft 4wt superfine carbon, and I agree but for the fragility of the graphite- I’m less scared of falling off a rock and snapping a glass rod since they’re more rugged and I’m pretty clumsy. I’ve also got an orvis superfine glass 7ft 3wt that works really well, but isn’t as precise as the Scott. It’s a blast to fish, though, would definitely recommend.

For an inexpensive and awesome rig, head to cabelas and get a CGR glass rod in either 3 or 4 wt at any length. With a reel and quality line you can be out the door for under $200. They’re a hoot to cast and you can also use them for bluegill in your local pond.

- James

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[Evan D]

I agree with Brian and Andrew. I bought a 7’ 3wt rod for brookies and it just didn’t fish all that well. No matter the type of cast you’re making it just doesn’t perform as well as longer rods in similar weights. And, your leader is constantly coming through the guides. For me, the shortest rod I will fish anymore is an 8’6” and no matter how brushy/small the stream it works just fine. I have an 8’6” 3wt sage and love it. Sold the 7’ 3wt and haven’t missed it one bit.

Good luck with the purchase!

[arthur noglak]

Im in the longer rod camp as well!
I use a very 8ft 4wt sage rod and am convinced that it is still to short in most cases.

The long rods are way more useful in general and the short rod hype you read about on the net and in books is unsubstantiated at best.

The fact that 13 foot Tenkara rods are marketed
as the best small stream solution proves the point.

Also, dont break the bank. I bought my old sage used many years ago. Its way to fast for a 3wt, inaccurate, the reel seat wobbels, the guide thread wraps are coming undone, and it has zero sensitivity.

In other words, its the perfect brookie rod! I still love it and have no need to ever replace it. Unless of course it breaks ha ha.

Art

[Misha Gill]

Not that my $0.02 matters but I think 7'6" is perfect for a small stream rod. In fact I've even used mine on the gunpowder on occasion. I've even tight lined nymphed (on the Rapidan) with my little 3 wt. I do think any shorter than 7'6" is too short. But for fitting a bow and arrow cast through some branches in a tight spot... I prefer the shorter length. I think more important is to get a rod with a fast action. It improves accuracy and if you do ever need to make the odd 40' cast the fast action helps a lot. 

But hey, this is fishing, there's no "wrong way," just my way!

[arthur noglak]

Well said Misha!

On Wed, Mar 13, 2019 at 9:37 AM Misha Gill <mish...@gmail.com> wrote:

Not that my $0.02 matters but I think 7'6" is perfect for a small stream rod. In fact I've even used mine on the gunpowder on occasion. I've even tight lined nymphed (on the Rapidan) with my little 3 wt. I do think any shorter than 7'6" is too short. But for fitting a bow and arrow cast through some branches in a tight spot... I prefer the shorter length. I think more important is to get a rod with a fast action. It improves accuracy and if you do ever need to make the odd 40' cast the fast action helps a lot. 

But hey, this is fishing, there's no "wrong way," just my way!

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[Nick]

Tenkara

[Dave Stephenson]

Looks like I will be picking up either a TFO 7’9” Finesse or an Orvis Clearwater 7’6” rod this weekend. Anyone know of a shop where you can find the TFO locally? Otherwise it’s Amazon Prime

Oh, and Nick, wondered I’d anyone was going to say Tenkara. I confess every time I see that word I wonder if it isn’t Japanese for “cane pole”. Don’t mean that pejoratively!

Thanks for reminding me what a great bunch of folks populate this forum.

Dave

> On Mar 15, 2019, at 10:35 PM, Nick <nfran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tenkara

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[Matt S.]

You’d have to call to see if they have the specific model in stock, but Bass Pro / Cabelas carry TFO brand.

I don’t think any of the above replies mentioned it, but one relatively inexpensive rod solution for brookies in the park, that is strong medicine, is a Tenkara rod. They are very long, which seems counterintuitive, but they collapse! So you can move from pool to pool, and through trees etc. easily as kind as you have a system to manage your line—I prefer winding it over 2 hook keepers on the handle piece. And as long as you are careful the extra length and small diameter of a furled Leader (I prefer) or “level-line” (long piece of of mono) with a light tippet makes it easy to get drag free drifts across swirling currents in plunge pools. Takes a little practice but if you have used a fly rod you’ll figure it out in 10 minutes.

Now I’ve gone and done it, and mention both big stores and Tenkara in a post on a fly fishing forum. Lol I may be in timeout for a long time.

Good luck and tight lines

[Edward Chu]

Bass Pro in Hanover, MD has the tfo 3 weight 7'9" finesse in stock

[Ben Krajacich]

http://theanglersroost.com/products/graphite-rods/the-fairy-2-piece-6-12-foot-ultra-light-graphite-fly-rod/

I quite like this rod (I got it for brookie hunting), and the price certainly was right. With decent line it casts well even if I am using it for sunfish or something at a pond.

[Gregg DiSalvo]

So, after chasing brookies this weekend, I've come to a new conclusion.  A longer rod makes keeping line off the water easier when tight lining, but I have always been a huge advocate for the shorter rods in 7' and smaller, but this is based mainly off dry fly fishing and in super tight, brushy streams.

I use  3 & 4 wt cabelas CGR glass rods  for brookies and love how noodly they are, BUT I was throwing small streamers this weekend with the 4wt  6'6" rod and found it would have been much easier with a longer rod, and like graphite.  Once again, it showed that one size does not fit all, but you can catch fish regardless of what you use.  

It just may not be pretty :)


Dave, I think you will find great success with your choice

On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 9:51:23 PM UTC-5, Dave Stephenson wrote:

[Dave Stephenson]

Gregg

Appreciate the logic that means I may HAVE to buy another fly rod!

Cheers,

Dave Stephenson 

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[Bob Richey]

I have a 7.5' very slow action rod that I love for brookie fishing.  I also have a 6' rod I use for very small and scrubby streams.  I like 7.5' if I'm on a stream where I might actually be making a cast every once in a while instead of just dabbing or casting the leader.  LL Bean has a nice little rod called the Pocket Water that is on clearance that I love for brookies.  The one mistake I see a lot of people make is spending a lot of time on one pool.  In my experience, if  brookie doesn't respond to the first couple of casts, they are going to; I like to hit all the spots in a pool once and move up to the next pool. 

On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 9:51:23 PM UTC-5, Dave Stephenson wrote:

[Bob Richey]

I think District Angling carries TFO.

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 9:07:38 AM UTC-4, Dave Stephenson wrote:

Looks like I will be picking up either a TFO 7’9” Finesse or an Orvis Clearwater 7’6” rod this weekend. Anyone know of a shop where you can find the TFO locally? Otherwise it’s Amazon Prime

Oh, and Nick, wondered I’d anyone was going to say Tenkara.  I confess every time I see that word I wonder if it isn’t Japanese for “cane pole”. Don’t mean that pejoratively!

Thanks for reminding me what a great bunch of folks populate this forum.

Dave

> On Mar 15, 2019, at 10:35 PM, Nick <nfran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Tenkara
>
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[Denny Mac]

Caught on 10ft 2wt Euro Nymping rod

https://www.instagram.com/dennis.mcmorrow/p/BvHVnK1ApFR/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=sxuhne3peykz

Short 6-7 foot 2-5wt rod is convenient for actually casting in the narrow mountain streams, however my "casts" that got a good drift and actually catch fish in these technical waters rarely lay down any line, and I probably would have caught more fish and spooked fewer if I had a little more reach.

[Terry C]

I use a 7' 4 wt.  Saying that ,what will fix your problem is learning to roll cast and a few single handed spey casts.  With those casts in your arsenal you will never need to cast overhead. 

On Saturday, March 9, 2019 at 9:51:23 PM UTC-5, Dave Stephenson wrote:

[Carl Z.]

I agree with the roll cast suggestion.  Overhead casts are highly efficient .... at catching trees.

For anything that doesn't require casting in a cove of laurels, a 7 or 7.5ft rod is perfect.

Even there, I suggest the bow and arrow cast.

Watch Joe Humphreys about 15 minutes into the video.

https://youtu.be/3dhKgm4dztg

Carl

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[arthur noglak]

This has been one of my favorite threads in awhile. Were drawing out some great opinions and suggestions. 

More importantly Its cool to see how stylistic fly fishing is. I mean even something as simple as a good rod for fishing for mountain bluegill, has incited a complex discussion about rod lengths and actions.

Hell  

 

Sent from my iPhone

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[John Hammill]

Hi Dave,

I’ve used a Cabella’s TQR 5’6” four weight (TQR stands for tight quarters) for brookies and after some practice it worked fine. So much casting is quartering flicks upstream with the end of the run and water being your load or roll casting or even bow and arrow casting that the above fit the bill. In little streams with elevation and cover I can rarely do a real cast, other than when I find the odd pool here or there if things ever broaden out. I’ve even been on my knees hiding behind a boulder and done some Czech nymphing, though admittedly they were very short runs. No need to spend a ton. I forget how much my rod was but it was probably under $100. I already had 4wgt line.

Good luck! Brookies are the most beautiful fish in the world!

John

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 9, 2019, at 9:51 PM, Dave Stephenson <dstephe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I ’m foolishly going to try to chase mountain brookies this season. I say foolishly because I will wrap a tree limb in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay casting to stripers. Question for all the mountain men and ladies; what is best rod length? I know I want a slow/full action ( thinking about glass) and probably a 3wt ( for a couple reasons), but is 7 foot too long? I know how much harder a shorter rod can be to cast, but a 7’9” seems too long for close quarters. I’ve spent a lot of time in the mountains and along those streams, just not too much trying to cast feathers into them. Has anyone tried the Moonshine Rods? In Murray’s Fly Shop I would trust but their mountain rods start north of $600. Something i’m not going to spend. Thoughts? Wisdom? Derision? Talk me out of it?
>
> Dave
> Washington
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[Brian Halpern]

New to the list. Will be doing chasing the mountain  brookies as well. I have a few rods to try.

Looking to meet up with a few people and make a.day trip out of it. 

Brian 

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[Dave Stephenson]

Beautiful trophy!

[Dave Stephenson]

Arthur, I have agree (and not because I started it) for all the reasons you listed but most of all for helping motivate me to get out there and get wet. Great forum because of great members.
Dave

[Dave Stephenson]

Let’s plan on it!

[Daniel Lazenby]

Brian you have any runs or streams in mind?

Daniel 

We're all stories in the end, just make it a good one.
Devin K., Virginia

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[chad tokowicz]

Whatttup everyone,

I hit the doah two weeks ago and brought two rods, both three weights. One was the Echo Shadow II Nymphing stick (coming in at 10ft) and the other was an Echo Glass Rod (coming in at 7'6 feet, i believe). Why two? One for dries and one for nymphs, duh, but surprisingly I put my fiberglass stick away and was only using the nymph rod.

Yes, the ten foot rod was a PAIN to bring through the woods, yet it was awesome for nymphing these pools, even though the river I was on is small the length of the 10 footer helped me do better drifts.

I am going again this weekend, BUT broke my nymph rod in PA this weekend. So, who knows what i will do.... feeling naked without the nymph stick :( 

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[arthur noglak]

Another vote for the long rodders!

Art

[Jamie Carracher]

I'm curious what you all think about rod weights. I have a 5 wt I just broke after being dumb. It's out for repair, and I'm thinking of getting another rod, maybe a 3 wt. This is a newbie question, but can you really tell the difference between a 3 or 5--especially nymphing?

[chad tokowicz]

it depends if you get a 3wt thats not built for nymphing it may not be that different than your five weight. But with my 10ft 3wt nymphing stick I can feel almost everything, there is definitely more feel to it.so while generally the lower in rod weights you go the lighter/more sensitive you go there will be exceptions. I fished a 4wt 11ft the other day, also a specialty nymph stick, and that was also very sensitive. However, the day before I casted a 6wt rod by the same company (Douglas) that felt like a 7.

As much as it is the weight, what the rod was built for will make a difference. Best example is like my nine weights, I have sage method nineweight and a sage rplxi nineweight. Both sage nineweighs, the method however is fast action, very stiff, whereas the rplxi is a little slower and softer.

conclusion: if you serious about nymphing, want to do more tightlining and "czech" nymphing, get a specialty nymph rod - just be careful you may never go back. 

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 12:40 PM Jamie Carracher <jcarr...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm curious what you all think about rod weights. I have a 5 wt I just broke after being dumb. It's out for repair, and I'm thinking of getting another rod, maybe a 3 wt. This is a newbie question, but can you really tell the difference between a 3 or 5--especially nymphing?

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[Dave Stephenson]

Ladies and Gents,

I have been tardy updating this post but wanted to thank all of you for the great dialogue. I attended Maury’s Fly Shop’s Mountain Trout School on May 1st and in a word it was exceptional. Jeff Murray had a way of taking all the facts that I already pretty much knew and turning them into knowledge. Great day all the way around. Spent hours on the Rapidan and managed to bring several nice Brookies to hand. First time I have ever managed a trout on a dry fly. What can I say, other than It all just came together .

Hope to see my TPRF friends on skinny and broad waters alike this year.

Dave

[JAB]

Dave,

   I did the same school with Jeff two weeks ago. X2, can't say enough good things about it. I definitely recommend that course as well as one that Jeff's dad Harry Murray, teaches in February where he breaks down every stream in the park, best access, best setions, etc of each.

Sincerely,
John Beasley
Warrenton, VA

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[Misha Gill]

So which rod did you go with and what are your thoughts now that you've used it to catch some fish???

[Dave Stephenson]

Misha,

Orvis Clearwater 7’6” 3 wt. My thoughts aren’t complete by any stretch of imagination; still have some experience to gain with it but I feel like it’s a great outfit for the task. Can definitely see where a longer rod would be handy for nymphs but overall I am very happy so far. Honestly haven’t had more that 20 feet of line out of it fishing yet so no reports on casting much with it.

Dave