Dredging Four Mile Run

[Jeff Cook]

Public meeting in May…

Four Mile Run to be dredged in $5M project to alleviate potential flooding

https://www.arlnow.com/2022/03/17/four-mile-run-to-be-dredged-in-5m-project-to-alleviate-potential-flooding/?fbclid=IwAR38Bt9wxMRuCbN7CNr2SxFa0mIapT9wDCOipzicG0pUC1TtfAHkDEronIw

[Carl Z.]

I'm interested in other people's thoughts.  I think the long term effect on fishing will be good (it needs some depth) but who knows.  Channelization could be rough.  It sounds like the area is right near the discharge from the water treatment plant and that area has been shallow when I fished it in the past.  My big concern is that it will make the area un-wadable.

The short term effects I know won't be great. 

Carl

--

Carl Zmola

--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CD91DBC6-E561-458C-9258-C0DC09C5129F%40icloud.com.

[spst...@gmail.com]

As a ‘yak angler there, I welcome dredging. It’s very badly needed.

-Sean

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CAK8gq%2BH0fpSV%2BOsYBuvOJx8%2BFzvnTc6%2BcjEGndFL%2B%3DX2gb_how%40mail.gmail.com.

[Kevin KB]

I think it would be interesting to see what they pull out besides sludge.  How many hooks are broken off on sunken shopping carts and bikes for example.  Just the cleaning of the garbage has to be a positive.   Listening to Rob Snowhite and all the things he has seen makes me curious.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CAK8gq%2BH0fpSV%2BOsYBuvOJx8%2BFzvnTc6%2BcjEGndFL%2B%3DX2gb_how%40mail.gmail.com.

[Daniel Lazenby]

If those yellow circles represent the dredging area, it doesn't look like we are getting very much for our $5 million dollars.

Daniel

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 11:34 AM 'Jeff Cook' via Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

--

[Rob Snowhite]

If we are guessing what they will find I'm calling for at least one car to be pulled from the muck. 

Rob Snowhite

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CAJ51MoymnogCgXf07s001B7Nng-p%2BPa-VVgXr6AcQkB%3DYasZEg%40mail.gmail.com.

[jbro...@gmail.com]

Here is my prediction:

28 Shopping carts

8 Bicycles

11 Tricycles

27 Baby doll body parts

Enough Tires for 3 1/2 autos 

8 Lawn chairs

3 hand guns

12 knives

1 rear door from a Ford Pinto

4 hockey sticks

326 soda cans / bottles

1 Smart Car

14,284 clousers 

[Kevin KB]

Rob, will  the grocery cart count from the dredging be above or below 200?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/335476566.547295.1647821383954%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Rob Snowhite]

The 4MR Conservancy has done a great job in removing the shopping carts. The carts don't give as much structure as you would think - not like the fish in the canal in Waikiki. Those fish love the shopping carts. The big wheels, traffic cylinders, and mailboxes were great structure. 

Rob Snowhite

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CAAtT9-sQKsh300%3D_o3UpcDa_W6QpGzsiK4xWtHZfg0m2eLzhYg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Andrew Sarcinello]

While it is not my specialty I have had a small role in developing 2 or 3 dredging plans at my job. My guess is the proper disposal of the dredged material costs just as much as the dredging itself. There are likely pollutants within the dredged material that require special considerations for storage so as to not leach back into the environment - it's only a theory since I have no direct knowledge of this project, but if true it would drive the cost up pretty quickly.

[Carl Z.]

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 12:14 PM Andrew Sarcinello <andy...@gmail.com> wrote:

 There are likely pollutants within the dredged material that require special considerations for storage so as to not leach back into the environment 

It's a good thing that four mile run isn't polluted. 

[Daniel Lazenby]

Andrew S. thank you for the new perspective. Much appreciated.

Daniel

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 12:14 PM Andrew Sarcinello <andy...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/dbe53955-bd82-4089-8d5c-647dee312d38n%40googlegroups.com.

[Miles]

So around fifteen years ago Alexandria and Arlington put together an amazing plan to revitalize 4MR. The drawings are beautiful. They're like those sci-fi movies where the poor people have to live in one place and the rich people live somewhere so much nicer that it's oppressive. The drawings look like the rich place.

Eleven years ago I went to a public meeting about how they were ready to get to work. It was pretty exciting: one of the things they said they would do was improve the stream bed, because 4MR had 'lost its meander'. They were going to make a deeper main channel and lots of undercut holes for fish to hide in, that sort of thing. I was looking forward to fishing a totally different 4MR in a few short years.

Maybe six years ago or so, they did some of the work, made the pond, but 4MR still looks a lot like 4MR, and not much like the drawings. Still a real strong District 13 vibe. Not that I'm complaining -- I fish there.

Arlington says the project is 'complete' (here) but apparently there are still meetings happening and more work is planned to be done. If I'm reading it correctly, it looks like the dredging is to be integrated into the ongoing restoration project.

Point being, it's not clear to me whether the dredging will create the 'meander' the Master Plan calls for (with deep holes for fish), or if this is going to be a more utilitarian project strictly for flood control. Much as I hope to see the 'rich place' version of 4MR some day, I'm not holding my breath. But any channel in 4MR would be an improvement.

Also, today I learned that the stream that enters at Troy Park is called 'Lower Long Branch'. I did not realize Long Branch Nature Center is on the Upper Long Branch, so I thought maybe they were proposing to dredge from (Upper) Long Branch all the way to the Potomac in six months. This watershed map made it a lot clearer.

-Miles

[Andrew Sarcinello]

Any time the Army Corps is involved in flood control it is typically utilitarian, but that is not to say the localities cannot push to incorporate other features such as "meander" and fish habitat. Hopefully they get a chance to put some bonus features in the flood control project.

[Rob Snowhite]

Some I do on the bridges: https://www.fourmilerun.org/2022/03/bridges-of-lower-four-mile-run-updates.html?m=1

As for the sediment removal it will be considered toxic and stored somewhere or buried. I worked on a similar issue where mercury leaked into a office building onsite sewage treatment facility. All of the gravel and sand was trucked off somewhere for storage. 

Hoping the boat ramp on four mile is updated to get barges or diggers in there. 

Lovely job walking around with a mercury meter and sewage - that goes for leesburg site and four mile.   

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 24, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Andrew Sarcinello <andy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Any time the Army Corps is involved in flood control it is typically utilitarian, but that is not to say the localities cannot push to incorporate other features such as "meander" and fish habitat. Hopefully they get a chance to put some bonus features in the flood control project.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/d8f1a2c8-d4ac-4411-aec2-c3fb95aa3b0fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Yambag Nelson]

This is correct.  After the Corps built the initial project, the local entity is responsible for maintaining it.  Part of that maintenance is making sure it continues to pass the flows that it was designed for.  i doubt it is currently doing that which is why they need to clean it out. 

As far as the sediment, I imagine that it will go to a landfill or something, but i do wonder how polluted it really is.  Is there some significant industry upstream that would have been dumping heavy metals?  It may be that it is mostly just whatever you get from typical urban runoff.

[Miles]

VA DEQ reports 4MR has some 'impairments': chlordane in fish tissue and E. Coli everywhere. It also flags PCBs in fish tissue, but that's everywhere in the tidal Potomac watershed. I don't know enough to say how that would affect disposal of the sediment, but given that chlordane was banned in 1988 and they're still finding it in fish, it probably means there's still a decent amount of it in the river bottom.

-Miles

[Frank E]

The large tree in front of the outflow would fix the problem, but the shopping carts so create cover. 

[D. Walker]

In addition to shopping carts.... how many eScooters?