New to fly fishing - advice on gearing up a 5/6 wt?

[Patrick Kearns]

Hey all,

Having stalked this group as a spin fisherman for general DC fishing advice for a while, I've officially been bitten by the fly fishing bug.  Something like 10 years ago, my dad bought us both Cabela's fly fishing starter kits, which were casted a few times on the lawn, and then allowed to gather dust.  My dad was kind enough to dig my rod back out and get it down here to me, so I plan on using that rod until it breaks, or I get into the sport more and want to replace it.

The plan is to get fully outfitted for Christmas, so now the question is:  What on earth do I need?

At the moment, I have:

 - One cheap three-piece rod (the stamp says 5/6 weight, and I believe it's 8'6")

 - One reel

 - 10-year old fly line of unknown weight and dubious quality

From what I gather, I need:

 - Line (5 weight? Floating vs. sink-tip? Taper?  So much to know here!)

 - Leaders 

 - Tippet (3X?)

 - Some flies (looks like there's some good advice in other posts - clousers, wooly buggers & a popper or two?) 

 - Vest/storage, clippers, other accessories.

I gather that this size setup is mostly going to be good for panfish & small bass, so that's what I plan on targeting.  Recommendations on what specific sorts of gear to get for fishing in the area  (especially Fletcher's, the Tidal Basin and the C&O) would be greatly, greatly appreciated!  (Any tips on extras to modify the setup to be serviceable for trout and for the shad run would also be great!)

I plan on making it out to a few Beer Ties this winter so I can pick up a little first-hand knowledge, and repay kind advice in tasty, tasty beer.

Thanks, y'all!

[TurbineBlade]

You'll see a bunch of old posts for this same topic if you search something like "new" or maybe even "what do I do" or something like that.  Your rod is fine for a lot of fishing around here -- I'd do this:

Get a 5 or 6-weight, WF floating line.  If the rod is graphite, go with the 6-weight line since you're "warm" inclined. Sinking lines suck on fly tackle -- I can count on one hand (my left one, "stubby") the number of times I use my depth charge line and still pick my nose with the other 3 fingers (not at once, one has to wait its turn).  Plus, they're made from Tungsten and/or lead, which are Enviro-no-nos and everyone here knows how much I want to save the environment first, and then fish second (I also don't like adverbs).  

Don't sweat tippet size too much --  Rob ties a good tapered leader with something like 20 > 12 > 8-pound test and I generally do the same for warm stuff.  It works well.  If you really want to buy tippet spools (and there's nothing wrong with that) pick up tippet in the 0X - 4X size and you're set for "warm".  I don't start with tippet spools until you get to 5X.  

I hate clouser minnows -- you can have all mine at the next tie if you want.  I never fish 'em anymore.  I do much, much better with marabou/rabbit/CDC/soft hackle fibers/etc. streamer patterns. I like movement in my patterns, for virtually everything actually.  Bucktail is lifeless and it stinks up my materials bin too.  Unfortunately for me, I know a LOT of hunters and have a surplus supply.   

Blue poppers are all everyone uses around here -- it actually began as a ploy to get rid of a lot of baby blue fabric paint in a factory in Harrisburg, PA in the late 80s.  Now the fish are used to them.   

Gene

[Yambag Nelson]

Your rod is fine for warmwater, but id also roughtly the traditional set up for trout fishing.  Over the years, people have tended to go lighter for trout, but as long as you stay away from the really small streams, you rod is fine for trout.so don't think you are limited to warmwater. 

Either way, you definitely want a flaoting weight forward line, and like the other guy said, I would probably go with a 6. 2x and 3x for leaders.  You can either tie your own or just buy knotless leaders.  The latter is more costly but probably easier. That set up with be good for the canal and the tidal basin. 

 

As a DC fisherman, you are going to get into the shad fishing in the spring at Fletchers.  For that you will need a sinking line.  They are a bit more difficult to cast and I would recommend learning on a floating line first.  But they are essential for the shad fishing that is arguably the highlight of the DC fishing season.   

 

On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 12:28:06 PM UTC-5, Patrick Kearns wrote:

[Derek Douglas]

Patrick,

As a recent spinning rod convert myself, I have to say that your post made me chuckle. I felt the same way when I first got into the sport, and had the same questions you do now. In fact, I keep learning new things to be confused about. That's kind of one of the beauties of fly fishing. Here is my advice from a new (fly) fisherman to another:

- All of the guys/girls at Orvis (Clarendon, Woodbridge, Bethesda) and Urban Angler are awesome, awesome people. I promise you that if you go into any of those stores with a good attitude, good questions, and some spare time, you will leave having learned something.

- Invest in waders and boots. Many spots can't be properly fished without them, these will exponentially increase your enjoyment out on the water.

- Buy a good pair of forceps/snips and one of those retractable leashes.

- If you like fishing enough to stalk this forum, I would consider buying a new rod/reel. An entry level Orvis/Sage won't break the bank, and you get the piece of mind of having a great warranty. People may disagree with me, but I'm not sure how much sense it makes to re-spool your current reel with expensive fly line, when we all know you're gonna get hooked anyway. Plus, it never hurts to have 2 of everything.

- Watch fly fishing films, they will give you motivation and are some of the most beautifully shot movies on this planet.

- Find a vise/friend to start tying with after you get started. There is nothing quite like tying your own fly, being jazzed up on tossing later, and then pulling it out of a fish's mouth the next time you go out. Plus, it is a great drinking/relaxing activity.

- There is still great fishing going on this year...get out there!

I have never enjoyed fishing as much as I have while holding a fly rod. It will be frustrating at times, but well worth it if you choose to put in some time and stick it out!

Cheers,

-Derek

[namfos]

Having once owned a Cabelas "beginners" rod (lost 20 year old Fish Eagle II 18 months ago to the Potomac near Harpers) I suggest you go with the 6 weight line. I think they cast better over-lined by one line weight. You'll be fine for trout and it's serviceable for smallmouth too.

Given that nearly all of us fly fishers are gear junkies, it's tempting to carrying as much of your stuff as you might possibly need in the course of a day's outing. Instead of a vest, look at chest packs or sling packs  - the greatest danger of a capacious vest is loading it up with too much stuff which you have to walk around with all day and then, worst of all, carry with you  on the walk back to the car.  ;-) 

Mark

[Yambag Nelson]

I have seen way too many people think they are going to like flyfishing so much that they start with high quality gear only to realize it is harder or not as much fun as they thought it would be.  The gear either collects dust or ends up getitng sold (sometimes to me) for a fraction of what they paid for it.

 

My advice would be to decide if you really like the sport before investing a lot of money.  When you first start, you aren't going to be a good enough caster to know the difference between your cabelas rod and a sage.  Learn on a cheap rod, and when you do upgrade, you will actually appreciate it. 

[Smith, Michael]

What you need is a friend with a spare rod/real/line combo who isn’t miserly with sharing flies and spots.  =)  That’s all anyone needs, really.  Then 3/4/5 trips into it, make a shopping trip with your friend and they can help you pick out something that works for you.

Michael Smith, CISSP-ISSEP
ryb...@ryzhe.ath.cx @rybolov
http://www.guerilla-ciso.com

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[Patrick Kearns]

Thanks for all the advice, guys!  For now, I'm definitely going to stick with the old rod - for cost's sake, and to make sure I'm as into the sport as I think I will be.  Plus, having dug it out of my dad's attic, I'm looking forward to the challenge of catching a few fish on the durn thing.  After a few outings, I'll be able to justify saving up & splashing out on a decent new rod or a good used one.  Then I can be the friend with the spare and pay it forward.

Michael - Hopefully in attending a few beer ties, I'll make the sorts of friends who are generous in loaning rods and equipment!  That will be a great way to see what sort of rod to invest in later on.

As far as the rest of the gear, I figure for now I'll invest in handful of pre-made leaders, tippet, flies and such to hold me over as I learn to make my own.

Dad is in Buffalo, so as far as the Xmas list goes, I'll have to look for a local shop up there to turn him on to.  I saw that Orvis does gift cards, so I told him that as a backup.  Either way, I'm all about going to Orvis and Urban to pick up new gear and new knowledge.  Fly Fishing 101 and club casting clinics are also in the cards.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me out, y'all.  The knowledge and enthusiasm on this board are big reasons I'm excited to start fly fishing.  Once I get rigged up, I'll see y'all out there!

Patrick

On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 6:02:29 PM UTC-5, Michael Smith wrote:

What you need is a friend with a spare rod/real/line combo who isn’t miserly with sharing flies and spots.  =)  That’s all anyone needs, really.  Then 3/4/5 trips into it, make a shopping trip with your friend and they can help you pick out something that works for you.

Michael Smith, CISSP-ISSEP
ryb...@ryzhe.ath.cx @rybolov
http://www.guerilla-ciso.com

On Nov 12, 2014, at 5:26 PM, Yambag Nelson <northstreet...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have seen way too many people think they are going to like flyfishing so much that they start with high quality gear only to realize it is harder or not as much fun as they thought it would be.  The gear either collects dust or ends up getitng sold (sometimes to me) for a fraction of what they paid for it.

 

My advice would be to decide if you really like the sport before investing a lot of money.  When you first start, you aren't going to be a good enough caster to know the difference between your cabelas rod and a sage.  Learn on a cheap rod, and when you do upgrade, you will actually appreciate it. 

 

On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 3:27:25 PM UTC-5, namfos wrote:

Having once owned a Cabelas "beginners" rod (lost 20 year old Fish Eagle II 18 months ago to the Potomac near Harpers) I suggest you go with the 6 weight line. I think they cast better over-lined by one line weight. You'll be fine for trout and it's serviceable for smallmouth too.

Given that nearly all of us fly fishers are gear junkies, it's tempting to carrying as much of your stuff as you might possibly need in the course of a day's outing. Instead of a vest, look at chest packs or sling packs  - the greatest danger of a capacious vest is loading it up with too much stuff which you have to walk around with all day and then, worst of all, carry with you  on the walk back to the car.  ;-) 

Mark

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[Derek Douglas]

Totally off topic question here, but are you from WNY? I'm from Buffalo!

[Yambag Nelson]

I'm from Buffalo as well. Oak Orchard flyshop is the best shop in Buffalo.

[Patrick Kearns]

Haha, heck yeah!  I grew up just outside East Aurora, most of my family lives in West Seneca and South Buffalo.  Now I definitely need to get you guys a beer.  I'll try to remember to shoot you and email before the next beer tie.  Thanks again!

[John Mathews]

Patrick,

Good post and good replies.  I moved to the SOBX 14 years ago.  I was an avid light spin tackle fisherman for several years.  One beautiful January day, about 10 years ago, I took an old fiberglass 8wt rod with a Phulger Medalist reel and a shad shaped fly, that my brother had sent to me, over to Cape Lookout.  I stood in gin clear water and caught 36" stripers for about half the day.  Since that time, I have accumulated a number of different rods and reels from 5 to 13 weights and reels to match.  I've even fallen prey to a spey rod.  It's real easy to go and spend $1,500 or more on a rod and reel or $1,500 on just a rod or a reel and unless you're one of those people that just have to have the very best or you're going to fish ALL of the time, you just wasted a lot of money.  I've fish 200+ days a year some years.  Mind you, not all of those days but a few hoursat a time.  Thus far, I have not paid more than $200.00 for a rod nor $100.00 for a reel.  My favorite rods are my TFOs and my favorite reels are Okuma Airframe.  The rods I've paid no more than $200 for and the reels cost about 30 dollars each. Mind you, these are my 5,6,7 and 8 weight rods and the rods I fish the most.  TFO has a no fault warranty.  Even if you buy it second hand, as I have most of mine, you break it, you send it to TFO with $25.00 and they'll fix or replace it, no questions asked.   I shop ebay for a lot of my equipment, especially lines.  Fishing the salt, I found very little need nor use for floating line till I moved to the Lowcountry of SC.  Here, I stalk tailing reds in the marshes on flood tides.  Sinking lines don't work too well.  Today, I fished a hole that rendered floating lines worthless to catch the trout, flounder and reds that I found.  Today a 300 grain sinking line worked well on the low end of the tide.  Yesterday, a 500 grain sinker was needed to find bottom with 7 more foot of water and and outging tide in the same hole.  In June, floating lines worked great for the feeding lady in the same hole and sinking lines yielded little results.  Point being, fly fishing is not one thing unless you fish pretty much one fish at one time of the year.  If I were you, I'd buy a 9', 5wt TFO Lefty Pro rod, two Okuma Airframe reels or something similar.  Fit one reel with backing and WF 6wt floating line and the other with backing and a 6wt intermediate sinking line or at the very least a floating line with a 15' sinking tip.  Your total cost for all of that can be 200 to 300 dollars on ebay.  Just be sure to get a line with little memory in cold conditions.  That set up would cover just about every thing you'll find from DC to the SNL and a lot of coastal fishing too.  

Save yourself some more money and build you own leaders, a surgeons knot is all you need and three different pound test leader materials.

Hope this has helped,

John M.

[namfos]

So any of you Buffalo guys Hobart grads?

Mark

[Marek Rich]

I am, but you already knew that J

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[Derek Douglas]

I fly fished Oak Orchard for the first time a few weeks ago, but I never made it out to the shop. Sounds like a good excuse to head back up for a weekend.

I'm not a Hobart grad, but I was on the sailing team in college. We made it up to Seneca Lake a few times every year for regattas. Awesome place.

-Derek

[Yambag Nelson]

The flyshop is actually nowhere near the Oak Orchard itself.  It used to be about 15 years ago but moved to williamsville.  I can only imagine what a circus the oak must have been a few weeks ago.

 

The guy that runs the shop (Nick Pionessa) is a really good dude and an excellent fly tier.  Definitely WNYs go to guy if you are interested in spey fishing.

[Danny Barrett]

I am going up to the fish the Oak Nov 24 and 25 (mon and tues).  I have never fished in NY.  Any advice from anyone whose been there?

Thanks,

Danny

dannyt...@gmail.com

(540)-222-8064

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[Derek Douglas]

It kind of bums me out that there isn't more fly culture in WNY. It's good to hear of a local shop like that.

The Oak and Burt Dam were both awful as far as crowds went. I grew up in Olcott and have spent a lot of time on 18 Mile Creek. I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but it draws the trashiest group of people during the fall run. I can't stomach fishing up near the dam long after sunrise. Oak was more tolerable and seemed to have a greater number of fish running. Seems that smaller egg patterns and trout beads were hitting the best when I went. My buddy and I bailed out of the Ontario tributaries and fished quieter parts of the Cattaraugus and 18 Mile Creek off of Erie instead. We didn't catch much, but we had a great time.

[Yambag Nelson]

My advice would be to fish somewhere else.  If you haven't been, there is about a mile of fishable water that is often very crowded, mostly with people lifting fish.  It truly does attract some horrible people.  Fortunately, you are going during the week of deer season so it may not be too bad.  Bring a PFd if you want to fish the first couple hundred yards of the mile I mentioned. I haven't been up there recently, but you supposedly have to havve one. 

 

There should be a good number of large browns, some steelhead, and some zonbie salmon.  There are some places where you can swing flies, but most people will probably be using egg patterns under an indicator. 

 

Go to oakorchardflyshop.com and check out their messageboard.  You will have to register to see most of the forums but it is worth it.  Lot of knowledgable folks on that board. 

 

Honestly, if you have never been I guess it is worth going to, as there are not many places in the US where you can catch as many big browns as you can there.  But really, the local guys don't really bother with the Oak. 

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 12:23:16 PM UTC-5, Danny Barrett wrote:

I am going up to the fish the Oak Nov 24 and 25 (mon and tues).  I have never fished in NY.  Any advice from anyone whose been there?

Thanks,

Danny

dannyt...@gmail.com

(540)-222-8064

On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Yambag Nelson <northstreet...@gmail.com> wrote:

The flyshop is actually nowhere near the Oak Orchard itself.  It used to be about 15 years ago but moved to williamsville.  I can only imagine what a circus the oak must have been a few weeks ago.

 

The guy that runs the shop (Nick Pionessa) is a really good dude and an excellent fly tier.  Definitely WNYs go to guy if you are interested in spey fishing.

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 11:35:13 AM UTC-5, Derek Douglas wrote:

I fly fished Oak Orchard for the first time a few weeks ago, but I never made it out to the shop. Sounds like a good excuse to head back up for a weekend.

I'm not a Hobart grad, but I was on the sailing team in college. We made it up to Seneca Lake a few times every year for regattas. Awesome place.

-Derek

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[Danny Barrett]

Thanks Derek.  I have a hand full of beads all 6mm size. What is the go to color up there, in Erie it seems to be white.

Thanks,

Danny

dannyt...@gmail.com

(540)-222-8064

On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Derek Douglas <derek.j....@gmail.com> wrote:

It kind of bums me out that there isn't more fly culture in WNY. It's good to hear of a local shop like that.

The Oak and Burt Dam were both awful as far as crowds went. I grew up in Olcott and have spent a lot of time on 18 Mile Creek. I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but it draws the trashiest group of people during the fall run. I can't stomach fishing up near the dam long after sunrise. Oak was more tolerable and seemed to have a greater number of fish running. Seems that smaller egg patterns and trout beads were hitting the best when I went. My buddy and I bailed out of the Ontario tributaries and fished quieter parts of the Cattaraugus and 18 Mile Creek off of Erie instead. We didn't catch much, but we had a great time.

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[Derek Douglas]

No problem, Danny. I can't speak as to the best color from personal experience, but most people I saw were using yellow beads. Hope this helps!

[Danny Barrett]

Thank you. 

Dan Barrett
540-222-8064

On Nov 13, 2014 9:22 PM, "Derek Douglas" <derek.j....@gmail.com> wrote:

No problem, Danny. I can't speak as to the best color from personal experience, but most people I saw were using yellow beads. Hope this helps!

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[namfos]

Marek, you're a Buffalo guy?

Mark

[namfos]

On Thursday, November 13, 2014 3:10:00 PM UTC-5, Derek Douglas wrote:

It kind of bums me out that there isn't more fly culture in WNY.

Derek, you  just have to get out there and convert the heathen worm dunkers, hardware slingers and snaggers from their sinful ways so that they might begin to worship at the Church of the Significant Rise Form.  

;-)

Mark

[Marek Rich]

Nah, Hobart grad

 

From: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of namfos
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 1:43 PM
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [CudaMailTagged] Re: [CudaMailTagged] {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: New to fly fishing - advice on gearing up a 5/6 wt?
Importance: Low

 

Marek, you're a Buffalo guy?

 

Mark

 

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[Bryan Lanier]

My wife went to SUNY Buffalo.

Bryan

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[Carl Z.]

Welcome Patrick,

+1 for Gene's post.

If you have a 5/6wt line on your rod, I would check it out first.  Pull the first 30 feet off the reel and see how kinky it is.  If it looks like a corkscrew, stretch it by pulling on it (two feet of line between your hands and just pull, it should have some give to it) and see if it straightens out some.  I've purchased reels with 20 or 30 year old line that work fine, especially for bluegill and bass fishing.  

With that said, if the line doesn't lay out straight, replace it, it will just frustrate you and make learning hard (not to mention fishing).

I like Gene's post, and also don't fish Clouser Minnows that much, but a lot of people swear by them, so don't write them off.

Carl

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