Soft hackle challenge

[TurbineBlade]

While performing a mildly-competent sumo deadlift in the basement (and trying not to lower the barbell onto a cat)  I had a revelation from the brain fuzz that will be of interest to no one:  Every fish I've caught in the last 2 years could have probably been caught on a soft hackle of some kind.  I've heard of people who wanted to "get back to their roots" and fish old bucktail streamers only for a year, or ditch parachute dries for the old catskills, etc. and most say that the change did not noticeably affect their catch rate. 

Starting now, I'm going to fish nothing but soft hackles this year with a couple of caveats:

1.  I get to fish it as a dropper off of a duo rig

2.  I can fish larger sizes, smaller sizes, unweighted, weighted, etc. 

3.  Ice cream sandwiches

I figure everything from an unweighted #16 black spider to a #8 bead head "steelhead soft hackle" will do the trick. 

Should be fun --

Gene ("part ridge") TB

[Jeremy Maggio]

I like the idea Gene. I have actually never fished using soft hackle flies but I have read a lot about how well the catskills work (I probably should give them a try). I don't see why it would affect your catch rate too much and even if it does, at least you'll have ice cream sandwiches.

- Jeremy

[TurbineBlade]

Great film --

"I must've drank me about 15 Dr. Peppers". 

[Justin Schiavone]

"I even played ping pong in my sleep"

Have fun with that turbIneblade.

An ode to Bowie:

A small Jean Genie snuck off to the D.C city
Strung out on yuppies sporting Blazers
Ate your avalanche burger while putting on his waders
Talking 'bout Monroe Street and talking to Rob Snowhite
DC is a go-go, but the fish don't taste right

Poor little Greenie, they'll be no green weenies. ooh-ooh

Keep the Port City flowin'

The Jean Genie- fishes only Soft Hackle Flashbacks
The Jean Genie- loves four mile's fat poop stacks

 He's outrageous, he swings and he swings (Jean Genie)
Jean Genie, let yourself go, whoah!!

RIP Bowie.

[TurbineBlade]

Excellent Justin!  I had "life on Mars" playing this morning, followed by ""heroes"" -- by far my favorite Bowie tracks.  His Low album is stellar --

Gene ("Ziggy played guitar") TB

[Jeremy Maggio]

Gene: One of my favorites.. I think I could quote Gump all day long.

Justin: That's a well done Bowie Arlington Ode.. you must miss us or at least the area.

[Justin Schiavone]

Well it just occurred to me that I should have used "Swing Genie", but hey hindsight is 20/20. ...Swing genie, he lives on SOFT HACKLE FLASHBACKS.. swing genie.. loves 4 miles poop stacks..

Of course I miss y'all. The area, not so much. But it was home for a long time.

Life on Mars is Bowie's masterpiece. From what I have read, the song's structure mirrors Sinatra's, "I did it my way", almost exactly. Bowie's version, how he did it his way, pretty much exposes the fact that we are all sheep who worship a world that produces the same old shit and we are blind to the fact it's all commercial bullshit.. "but the film is a sadden bore, because she's lived it ten times or more" meaning Bowie see's this, and recognizes things are just repeated, and "see the mice with their million hordes" reconfirms we are all sheep (we are). All the references to mickey mouse strengthen this argument, because as we all know,  Disney is the epitome of all this kind of stuff. Fascinating stuff to me. I'll have to try and find that article..

BACK TO FLY FISHING.

Gene, from the conversations I have had with soft hackle folk - especially the trout fisherman of Scotland, there really isn't a need for any other fly. I cannot give up a dry, especially the parachute patterns, even if you can catch more fish imitating that bug emerging from the bottom- and not just trapped in the film. Did you all see the Orvis article they recently posted on facebook about mending line to produce life in the fly? Super informative for those trying to imitate an emerger on the swing, and for streamer fishermen putting that fly in hard to cast spots, all via mending. Mend it like Beckum, yano. (I realize that spelling probably is no where close)

[TurbineBlade]

That's interesting -- you seem to be fairly educated on the subject of music.  I remember the Rush shirt! 

____

Mostly I just really like soft hackles.  I think they're cool-looking. 

The only scenario that causes some doubt is the rare, 1-2 times per year I run into a midge ordeal.  Honestly, it happens so infrequently where we tend to go that I'm okay with it.

I guess allowing use of a foam beetle or heavy-hackled EHC to suspend it is kind of cheating.  A good fishermen would be able to fish unweighted wets upstream and destroy the fish -- I'm not that good.  I usually can't feel or see anything that way.  I'll probably never be that good. 

Gene

[Justin Schiavone]

"I like to play", Garth. But yeah, music would be my other obsession. Slapppada bass mon.  

____

They are cool looking, and so simple.

I think George Daniel's philosophy regarding throwing streamers at rising fish may be applicable in the midge instance. According to his book "Strip set", one can catch fish on streamers during prolific hatches because, simply put, these are feeding fish. Now, yeah they are keying in on a certain food source, but nonetheless they are feeding. I would have to think this applies to wet flies. It's hard to imagine this is not the case for most of the fish we catch. If we really had to match every food source perfectly, I don't think we would ever be as successful.

You won't get better with that attitude. This book should help: http://www.theanglingbookstore.com/theupstreamwetfly.aspx 

[Bryan Lanier]

Did a web search and found the following link:

http://www.jackgartside.com/step_soft_hackle_flies.htm

Gonna have to tie some of these!

Bryan

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[namfos]

Two words for you, Gene: Leisenring Lift.

Mark

[Jeremy Maggio]

All this soft hackle talk has me researching them. I found the article below which states soft hackle flies are the sharks of the fly box and goes into detail on their effectiveness. There are also some really cool fly patterns at the end of the article so give it a read if you'd like.

http://www.ginkandgasoline.com/gink-gasoline-fly-patterns/the-magic-of-soft-hackles/ 

- Jeremy

[Parker]

I watched a rainbow trout hammer a partridge and yellow twitched in the current and now I am a believer. Now I just need to tie some...

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 8:18:22 AM UTC-5, TurbineBlade wrote:

[namfos]

Google up the fly tier Syl Nemes - the man wrote the book(s) on soft-hackles. Also Dave Hughes has some good titles about wet flies and a much older book is Art of Tying the Wet Fly & Fishing the Flymph by James Leisenring. (of "lift" fame, Turbine Blade)

Mark

On Wednesday, January 13, 2016 at 8:18:22 AM UTC-5, TurbineBlade wrote:

[TurbineBlade]

I've read some things about Nemes and I own and have read the Hughes book quite a bit.  Stewart was before both of them and was a proponent of the upstream method, which to me is possibly the hardest thing to master in fly fishing. 

The "lift" is a common cited method, but I have to admit that I rarely am in a situation to use it (i.e., fishing across or down at an angle where I can stop the rod to bring the fly ^^ in front of a sighted (or presumed) fish.  I guess it can be silly to apply this soft hackle thing to small streams which comprise probably 90% of what we do, where any small, dark-looking thing with a bead works about the same as another subsurface, but I've found myself in a smaller minority of folks who use them for warm water.  Clearly, everyone does their own thing and if it works - awesome.  Throw an over-hackled #2 clouser minnow until you drop ;). 

Fish are interesting -- I've watched plenty of them up close and am convinced that there are times where soft hackles out-fish everything else.  I can only figure that there is so little there (and what is there is quite mobile), that the fish aren't as easily "put off" by it.  Of course, you can use bright silk bodies, tinsel or red tags, etc. to invoke the super-normal stimulus which I believe answers the question "why are they hitting this stupid looking thing" in just about all cases (nod to Tinbergen). 

[Scott Stankus]

Gene, if you haven't already read The History of Fly Fishing in Fifty Flies by Ian Whitelaw, you'd love it. But it actually sounds like you've already read it. 

--Scott

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[namfos]

Gene, funny you should mention "super normal stimulus" and the link takes one to a Wikipedia page with an Earth Mother figurine - something that figured largely, along with the "sacred fire," in my long ago and still influential undergraduate education. Good point about having enough room to "lift."  As for the upstream method, it's IMO about the same level of difficulty as high-sticking with nymphs (and no bobbers, er, indiicators) On vacation in Ontario each year soft hackles and flymphs are true slayers of sunfish for the frying pan - esp  on a 3 or 4 wt.

Mark

[TurbineBlade]

Off to a reasonable start this weekend, even with leaky waders (there's another blow-out pair for the pile).  You always know you have a leak when you feel unusually cold for a given temp. 

Sight-casted 2 small catfish with a tung-bead soft hackle.  Always cast to them and they seldom move for anything.  Don't know why they did yesterday.  

Caught one of the most hefty sunfish I've ever caught on a "pheasant and red".  Pic not great, but that dude was probably close to 1" thick.  

Lost count of other sunfish, small bass, etc.  Couple of crappie. 

Gave up my spot earlier today for a guy and his kid who were fishing from the bank -- they looked like they were having a good time. 

Gene 

[Justin Schiavone]

Nice work "Swing Genie". Catching cats on the fly is so cool. Especially when sight fished. Crazy it ate a SH.

 I had every intention on swinging flies this weekend in honor of this post, but the fish just were not active enough. They were mostly on dead drifted nymphs- baetis mayflies, olive, size 20.. so I was mostly on 100 proof shnops with hot chocolate: (.

3 days of fishing and only one decent BWO hatch. Sight fished to a few good fish feeding in the film too, but mostly got into small stockies-still fun. Found a new midge pattern that yielded too, "Sprout midge", check it out. Most of my fish were on a crippled BWO though.

Who else got out there?

[ALarge]

It was a balmy 18° at the Beave on MLK day but I managed keep the ice off my eyelets long enough to land this pair of 'bows. Was fishing a dry dropper, beadhead pheasant tail nymph under a catskill-style BWO. Both hooked into the nymph. 

[TurbineBlade]

Well done!  Let me ask you a question as a fellow, cold weather angler - do you find  that those gloves (or any gloves for that matter) actually help with hand warmth?  I generally hate gloves, as I find that they tend to absorb at least *some water (despite claims on the package) and are actually worse than nothing. 

I usually try to just keep my head and core warm and hope my fingers follow suit.  That said, I'm willing to try gloves.  Maybe my opinion will change one day ;)

Gene

[Justin Schiavone]

Nice work Alarge, I love me some Beaver.

Swing Gene, gloves can be really great just get ones with the thumb and finger covers so you don't have to take them off. I've also heard people using latex gloves. Keeping water off your digits is huge.

[Terry C]

Sounds to me you would be doing some spey casting. Down and across .  Have you done any one handed spey casts.  I have been using them for a couple of years now. Great addition to one handed,over hand casting. 

[Alex Large]

Absolutely, they do. There are a few keys to good pair of fingerless gloves, however. First, they must be windproof. The basic tenant of thermal insulation is to  trap or otherwise prevent the flow of air. Sorry, those salt and pepper knit wool gloves aren't going to cut it. Secondly, you should seek out a pair that has rubber traction pads on the palm and (what's left of the) index fingers and thumb. Third, they must have enough spare room in the palm for me to slide a Hot Hands hand warmer into, ha!  They last a couple hours and warm the blood in your hands  (think furthest extremity from your core) enough to keep your fingertips from turning blue! I keep a whole mess of those things in my wader bin and pull them out on days like Monday.

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[TurbineBlade]

I hate this phone. I was just going to ads that you should try swinging SH for sure, but dead drifting on top, film, bottom are as good or better at times. Stripped in stillwater is deadly on warm water fish. That's just my opinion though. Some people hate the silly things.

[TurbineBlade]

Will try gloves again! Thanks for the tips!

[Alex Large]

http://www.amazon.com/Glacier-Glove-Windproof-Fleece-Fingerless/dp/B002N0KRQC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1453324434&sr=8-2&keywords=fingerless+glacier+gloves

^These are what I use. They're both inexpensive and effective. In fact, I sometimes catch myself submerging them when releasing fish, then realizing what I'd done, then subsequently completely forgetting about the water altogether because they're still warm. 

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 4:21 PM TurbineBlade <doubl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Will try gloves again! Thanks for the tips!

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[Dalton Terrell]

Gene,

Orvis News has published a good story that reminds me of your soft hackle snobbery: http://www.orvis.com/news/fly-fishing/the-truth-about-fly-fishermen-by-william-g-tapply/

Enjoy.

Good luck with the the soft hackles, I prefer to get skunked with all manner of flies.

Dalton

[TurbineBlade]

Ha -- fun article.  I've been on both ends of that spectacle -- 

"Soft hackle snobbery" is an oxymoron if there ever was one.  The dedication to flies which represent essentially nothing ;).  

Gene

[Justin Schiavone]

Dalton, that was highly articulate.

Swing Genie none of us better catch you throwing any other fly or you're toast.

It's snobby AF. All the dudes in Scotland turned their noses up at a dead drifted nymph down and dirty. They did have some rad knickers, all plaid and shit, but that's neither here or there.

[Rob Snowhite]

I need to find the soft hackle game changer Ivan tied at beer tie. Amaze

Sent from my iPhone

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[Gs Feder]

Found this 3-part series on soft hackles via The Fiberglass Manifesto: http://theflyninja.com/blog.php

[TurbineBlade]

Good articles there!  I used to over hackle them at first, but I've learned to purposely "waste" feather fibers for the sake of better flies ;).  You can take fewer turns, or strip one side of the feather -- both work.  

Often, you'll have game bird feathers which are too long for the "trout" size flies you may want to tie (e.g. 16s, 14s, etc.).  I've seen a few ways to resize larger feathers for smaller hook sizes (Craven shows one, and Hughes shows another in his book) but I like this method better than those:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-dfsN0ZPkc

One of the debates (for wrapping in the usual way) is whether to tie in by the tip (usually cut into a triangle), or via the stem.  Ivan showed a sort of variation on the tip method, by not cutting into a triangle and instead tying in the entire tip, then folding it back and putting more wraps on to fully secure it.  They all can work, but I'm getting to where i prefer the stem method at the front like Weilenmann shows here-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuK61AFV0NU

You kind of take your pick -- you either end up pulling the entire feather off the hook (tip method), or you simply lose your grip on the feather tip (stem method).  With the tip method, you get to use the stem as a "handle" but I'm getting more annoying with pulling out feathers over time.  It only happens once in a while, but it's still annoying.  

Of course, CDC collars work very, very well too -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvZb5R22nXU

Gene

[GSFeder]

Excellent points, Gene. 

I like to tie in by the tip to get the shorter barbs that are at that end of the feather; for bigger flies, I tie in by the stem. Also, where you start matters when palmering hen hackle for a wooly bugger to get the right taper. 

Cheers, 

-- Greg

Sent from my iPhone

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[TurbineBlade]

That's absolutely true Greg -- good point.  Actually, I was doing that yesterday with a few feathers that were a little too big, save the barbs near the tip ;).  So long as you don't make too many turns, you won't get into the barbs that are too big.  

I forgot to mention one thing I've read and heard a lot -- that stem-tying permits you to "wind the thread through the feather" to reinforce it, and supposedly keep the fly more durable for multiple fish.

In practice, I've rarely had a soft hackle "unwind", whether tip-tied or stem-tied.  I think the "durability" idea is kind of overstated. What usually happens is that the floss or silk body unwinds -- actually, that happens all the time.  You can either reinforce it with a wire rib, or with epoxy, etc.  Also, what you don't want to do is wind the silk down the shank, and then back up again.  That will virtually guarantee that after a fish or two the silk will unravel and move down into the bend of the hook.  Hughes mentions this in his book and I've found it to be true.  

Not that it seems to matter whether the body looks good or not.  

It's always interesting to hear people say things, try it for an extended period, and decide for yourself whether it's true or not.  

Gene

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 7:48:05 AM UTC-5, Gs Feder wrote:

Excellent points, Gene. 

I like to tie in by the tip to get the shorter barbs that are at that end of the feather; for bigger flies, I tie in by the stem. Also, where you start matters when palmering hen hackle for a wooly bugger to get the right taper. 

Cheers, 

-- Greg

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 24, 2016, at 7:02 AM, TurbineBlade <doubl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Good articles there!  I used to over hackle them at first, but I've learned to purposely "waste" feather fibers for the sake of better flies ;).  You can take fewer turns, or strip one side of the feather -- both work.  

Often, you'll have game bird feathers which are too long for the "trout" size flies you may want to tie (e.g. 16s, 14s, etc.).  I've seen a few ways to resize larger feathers for smaller hook sizes (Craven shows one, and Hughes shows another in his book) but I like this method better than those:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-dfsN0ZPkc

One of the debates (for wrapping in the usual way) is whether to tie in by the tip (usually cut into a triangle), or via the stem.  Ivan showed a sort of variation on the tip method, by not cutting into a triangle and instead tying in the entire tip, then folding it back and putting more wraps on to fully secure it.  They all can work, but I'm getting to where i prefer the stem method at the front like Weilenmann shows here-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuK61AFV0NU

You kind of take your pick -- you either end up pulling the entire feather off the hook (tip method), or you simply lose your grip on the feather tip (stem method).  With the tip method, you get to use the stem as a "handle" but I'm getting more annoying with pulling out feathers over time.  It only happens once in a while, but it's still annoying.  

Of course, CDC collars work very, very well too -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvZb5R22nXU

Gene

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 12:15:27 AM UTC-5, Gs Feder wrote:

Found this 3-part series on soft hackles via The Fiberglass Manifesto:  http://theflyninja.com/blog.php

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[alan burrows]

I was taught to tie game in by the tip and fowl in by the stem.  BTW Starling was once fowl.  When hackling with anything but partridge, I usually strip the back side of the feather so I can take three wraps and still not over hackle.

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 7:48:05 AM UTC-5, Gs Feder wrote:

Excellent points, Gene. 

I like to tie in by the tip to get the shorter barbs that are at that end of the feather; for bigger flies, I tie in by the stem. Also, where you start matters when palmering hen hackle for a wooly bugger to get the right taper. 

Cheers, 

-- Greg

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 24, 2016, at 7:02 AM, TurbineBlade <doubl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Good articles there!  I used to over hackle them at first, but I've learned to purposely "waste" feather fibers for the sake of better flies ;).  You can take fewer turns, or strip one side of the feather -- both work.  

Often, you'll have game bird feathers which are too long for the "trout" size flies you may want to tie (e.g. 16s, 14s, etc.).  I've seen a few ways to resize larger feathers for smaller hook sizes (Craven shows one, and Hughes shows another in his book) but I like this method better than those:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-dfsN0ZPkc

One of the debates (for wrapping in the usual way) is whether to tie in by the tip (usually cut into a triangle), or via the stem.  Ivan showed a sort of variation on the tip method, by not cutting into a triangle and instead tying in the entire tip, then folding it back and putting more wraps on to fully secure it.  They all can work, but I'm getting to where i prefer the stem method at the front like Weilenmann shows here-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuK61AFV0NU

You kind of take your pick -- you either end up pulling the entire feather off the hook (tip method), or you simply lose your grip on the feather tip (stem method).  With the tip method, you get to use the stem as a "handle" but I'm getting more annoying with pulling out feathers over time.  It only happens once in a while, but it's still annoying.  

Of course, CDC collars work very, very well too -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvZb5R22nXU

Gene

On Sunday, January 24, 2016 at 12:15:27 AM UTC-5, Gs Feder wrote:

Found this 3-part series on soft hackles via The Fiberglass Manifesto:  http://theflyninja.com/blog.php

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[Joshua Delmonico]

Gene,
I am newish to tying. What are the options alternatives to "wind[ing] the silk down the shank, and then back up again"?

Thanks.

Josh

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[Richard Farino]

It creates a smoother body, and instead of getting bumps near the rear of the fly where you start your floss, it’s hidden up near the head.

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

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[TurbineBlade]

Hi Josh -- There are a couple of ways to prevent the silk from slipping down into the hook bend after a fish or two has bitten the fly.  One way is to simply tie in a rib to reinforce the silk like this fly:

If you are not familiar with the technique to tie in a wire rib smoothly, I recommend you do it this way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAlXG_78Z4

The zebra midge was one of the first patterns I started tying in Craven's book and he (rightly) proposed it and the brassie as good beginner flies because they teach some basic techniques with ribs and keeping the thread smooth/flat, etc.  

That's probably the most secure way to keep your silk body intact. I'm sure with modern goops you can do something to preserve it as well if you wanted.  

If you are using floss (and just regular thread in your bobbin), you can tie in the floss at the front of the fly, and simply cover the floss with your thread all the way back to the bend, and then bring the thread back forward again.  Then, spiral your floss up to the front and tie it off with your thread.  That way the thread is anchoring the floss at least somewhat, so the "slinky sock" effect can't happen (though a fish will still probably bite the floss body loose at some point).  I can't tell you how many times I've been standing there, fishing a partridge and yellow (or something) and notice that the "yellow" part is trailing off the back of the hook and the black thread body is totally exposed.  Usually you'll keep catching fish just the same -- 

You can obviously also use a wire rib for floss bodies -- that works fine.  

Of course, you could skip all of this and simply create a dubbed body soft hackle ;).  Or you can use a dubbing loop and make a couple of turns of the soft hackle back into the thorax and get a flymph -- 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDanakU2U_E

Note that I actually do not use the real-deal, Pearsall's silk thread for any of mine.  I usually go with regular thread, wire, dubbing, etc. instead.  

All of this is kind of personal preference -- if you wanted to use silk and wrap back-and-forth and say "I'm going fishing" no one could fault you ;).  

Just my take -- don't sue!

Gene

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[TurbineBlade]

Rich is spot-on here.  One of the first things I figured out with fly tying is that when you tie in a tail, or whatever at the rear of the hook only you will generally end up with a crappy "bump" showing through your body.  There are ways to deal with this too (including wrapping down and back).  

On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 12:19:02 PM UTC-5, Richard Farino wrote:

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[TurbineBlade]

Forgot -- with ribs, I like to do what Craven teaches and keep the rib along the shank in the same place.  I love the Tightlines Vimeo videos, but do not prefer his preference for "letting the rib carry over to the other side of the shank" as you move backward.  Again -- just preference.  Luckily, no one will be there with a wooden spoon to smack your fingers if you like something different than they do ;).  

Gene

[Joshua Delmonico]

Thanks Gene!

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