Surf fishing -- Floating line = idiot?

[TurbineBlade]

Hey -- I'm planning to do more fishing on the beach this year and will be in OBX in few months (and also MD Eastern Shore).  I've done a little surf fishing in DE with a full-sink line, and I didn't catch anything other than horseshoe crabs -- but I got an understanding of how to use the basket, etc.  The full sink was honestly dragging bottom too much to be effective....at least where I was standing.  

One thing I kept thinking was that fishing near the shore (I guess between the "wash" and first sand bar -- I'm too scared of sharks to try to get to the deeper cuts...sue me, I never claimed I was rational) might be a place to use a floating line?  A lot of folks talk about using the int. line instead, but doesn't the wave action push just as much a few inches below the surface as it does on the surface?  It seems like you could mend the floater and work a "swing" with the incoming waves better than you could with a sinking line.  

I also understand that the intensity of the waves and/or depth you're fishing makes a difference....I'm mostly thinking OBX and Assateague.  

In other words, is it worth my time to use the floater, or is that one to leave home?  

Gene

[Danny Barrett]

As you mention different lines, something I've been looking at but can't decide if its a good purchase.  There are some lines out now by a few different companies with interchangeable tips, most seem to be around $140.  1 float and 3 different sinking tips of different speeds.  Has anyone used these?

Thanks,

Dan Barrett

dannyt...@gmail.com

(540)-222-8064

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[Daniel Davala]

Gene,

The floating line definitely has a place in the surf, and like anything in this sport, the technique has its zealots.  One of the most vocal proponents of fishing the surf with a floater is Ken Abrams (author, tier, artist).  Here is one of his better articles on the subject as a primer, but with the warning that this is one mighty deep rabbit hole with LOTS of opinions!

http://www.stripermoon.com/articles/article19.html (yes, there is a "store" link, but it doesn't work from the "Articles page".)

If you can find a copy of his book, Striper Moon, it is more or less his definitive text on the subject and his methods, which are essentially Atlantic Salmon wet fly tactics adapted to the suds. 

     

His other book "The Perfect Fish..." discusses his sparsely dressed bucktail and flatwing patterns which he also popularized in certain circles.  I think both of these are right up your alley since you love to cast and fish wet flies so much. 

Short story from my end, I was fishing Outer Banks in Rodanthe one Christmas with a sinking line and trying to hit the outer trough.  I was getting pummeled by every wave, and not catching a thing.  Eventually, a wave filled my stripping basket knocking the line out which became a tangled mess.  I waded back closer to shore to about knee deep water and set about untangling the line.  In the process, I noticed the end of the line, fly, and leader had washed up on the shore.  Once I got the tangle undone, I started stripping the line back in to head back out there and BAM!!!  Got a nice Redfish in the calf deep foamy water right against the beach.  I played the fish pretending I had known what I was doing, and after releasing it, I cast back in the wash and got another one.  After that, I switched over to a floating line and unweighted fly (Deceiver) and proceeded to catch several more on the trip.  From that day on I was convinced that floaters have their place in the surf.

Danny, the multi-tip lines you mention are one of my favorites setups for the beach simply because you can change out the front 15 feet to different densities without unstringing the rod.  I used them quite a bit until I got bitten by the two-hand bug, and I don't think I've tossed a single hander in the surf ever since.  Same deal on the two hander though, I use a Skagit head with basically the same multi-tip set-up.  Works a treat!

Dan Davala

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[Eric Y.]

Gene, 

In my surf arsenal I have a Depth Charge and a floater. Both have their place, no doubt. However, my most productive line (though, unlike Dan, I only go to the beach in the summer) has been an intermediate line. I mostly fish the surf for blues and striper and mostly from the Delaware Bay up to Barnegat Bay so, your results may vary based on location. I find the floaters are, as Dan mentioned, best in the shallower wash while the intermediate and DC lines are less affected by the waves on longer casts into the surf. Kind of a pain to have so many lines, but once you have three spools for your reel, life gets a lot easier. Also, for whatever it is worth, I think every fish I've hooked on a DC line has been on a sand eel pattern, which is basically meant to sit on the bottom and move very slowly. 

TIP: cover the painted eyes of your flies with something like CCG, otherwise the sand will rub off the paint within just a handful of retrieves. 

[John Smith]

For me if I am fishing for blues, stripers, or even false albacore I like the intermediate (1.5-2.5 ips) lines the best. However, I fished a teeny 350 from Sandy Hook, NJ a couple of summers ago and did great on flounder plus I seem to be able to cast that line great. It always seems to me that when the surf fishing is the best there is an onshore wind right in your face out of the east mostly (warm, clear water). In those cases I have an easier time slinging a sinking line of some sort out into the froth. Certainly, a floater would work in some situations too. Just my 2 cents.

[Terry C]

Gene, I use the multi-tip approach now fishing out of the kayak, I can change tips quickly and love the options it gives me.  Trying to restring a complete lineoin a fly rod was close to impossible in a kayak so I was looking for a better way.  Being able to sit down in the kayak and just add a 10 foot section of sink tip to my floating line was great.  I have become a big fan of them.  Also use them on my 2 hander.

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 3:25:51 PM UTC-5, TurbineBlade wrote:

[Danny Barrett]

Dan,

Thanks for the 2 handed suggestion.  Just got a switch rod.  I'm loving it but it came with floating line, just doesn't do the trick with my 4-6" streamers with not much weight in them.  Any articles you'd suggest looking at before I buy some new line, I am new to the 2 handed rods? 

Thanks,

Dan Barrett

dannyt...@gmail.com

(540)-222-8064

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[Dalton Terrell]

Check out this PDF from RIO, you'll want to print it out and read it several times. It focuses on RIO products obviously but covers the aspects of the main types of lines and casting pretty well.

Dalton

[TurbineBlade]

That's a great article Dalton -- I've only skimmed it, but I'll read it thoroughly later.  

I'm as lazy as can be and (I think I've said before) I've done almost all my recent trout fishing (moving water) using SH spey casts. It's fun, low-stress, results in fewer tree hangers, and keeps me in the water longer.  I'll surely get a 2-hander at some point....

Dan:  Just remember, "two hand rods just seem so unnecessary" ;).  

Thanks for the suggestions everyone -- I have 2 striper (intermediate) lines that I've not used yet, but I'll give those a spin along with the floater and see how it goes.  It sounds like it's a matter of depth, conditions and personal preference.  DC and sand eel patterns I hadn't considered -- 

Gene

[John Bilotta]

Danny,

Welcome to the two handed universe.

I would get a skagit line and sink tip and focus on learning a roll cast, C Spey and double Spey cast.

Decide if you are going to learn to switch hands or cast off shoulder with your dominant lower hand, I would suggest learning to switch hands.

John

Sent from my iPhone

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[Danny Barrett]

John,

Thank you for the pointers. So far I am loving being able to chuck streamers massive distance.  I dont think Ive had to google so many terms in an email before, I have so homework to do it seems.

Thanks,

Dan Barrett

 

dannyt...@gmail.com

(540)-222-8064

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[John Bilotta]

No worries, we all do.

I will be back on the river later this month with a club casting session. If you can, stop by.

John

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[Danny Barrett]

Id love to, but the next time I will be anywhere near DC will be for my annual trip back for the shad run, not sure what weekend that will be yet.  If there is anyone around after the shad stop biting Id love some advice from some more experienced guys.   I will be one of the few guys up under chain bridge most likely.  

Dan

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[John Mathews]

Gene,

Here's a little of what I learned from fishing the OBX;

I just moved from the Cape Lookout area of NC to Beaufort SC.  I started fly fishing the salt there and luckily on my first day of fishing the surf was just about flat.  I was throwing a floating line with a sink tip.  The 36"stripers I caught most of the day did not care what I was throwing and the wave action was not an issue.  Since that day, 10 years ago, I've spent a couple hours or more of 150 to 250 days a year fishing, mostly fly.  I have all sort of rods with all sorts of  lines and line arrangements.  If I had to have just one line, it would be an 8# rod with an 9 to 10# intermediate line.  Along with that line, I  like 10-15 foot of a 400 to 500 grain sinking tip and a 15' piece of 10# floating tip.  The intermediate will get to 80% of what you'll find and the sink tip will get down to the bottom in those really deep troughs with a swift current.  Occasionally, you'll get a surface feed and the floating line will keep it on top long enough to present a fly. For leaders, a 30 to 40lb butt with a 12 to 15lb tippet and maybe a 20 to 30lb bite tip of 6".  Total leader length, 4' to 6 ' , fluoro to sink and mono to float.

I generally hate the surf to fish.  Rarely is it calm enough to comfortably fish.  Knee deep is about all I'm going in for.  I've gotten to old to be beat up.  When it is, interesting things can happen.  See pic.  It took me 6 years to get me, these fish and the surf conditions to come together to do this. 

I generally look for inlets that allow you to fish just inside and out of most of the wave action.  Next, I look for sand bars that break the waves yet give me a good size trough to fish.   Find yourself an inlet with a good rip on a moving tide and you'll usually find fish.

You can buy the heads or make them from the first 15 foot of a WF line.  I generally do that with a 10 to 12wt line. 

Hope this has helped,

John 

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 3:25:51 PM UTC-5, TurbineBlade wrote:

[John Mathews]

Gene,

One other thing....Sharks.

Sharks are always present but I found them to be far more so in the last days of summer and the first days of fall when water temps have been high and are still high, 80+ degrees.  Six to eight footer in 1 to 3 foot of water is common on the OBX.  I've seen them with their dorsal fins and back out of the water in the suds.  If you have a bluefish,spanish mackeral and or albie feed going on DON'T stand in the water and be careful releasing fish as a shark may take the fish and your hand.  If you find yourself in this situation, I hope you have a 12 or 13 weight.

The pic is of Beaufort NC inlet and all those dark spots in the water are 6 to 10 foot sharks.  This was taken in late Sept.      

On Wednesday, March 5, 2014 3:25:51 PM UTC-5, TurbineBlade wrote:

[Eric Y.]

John, off topic, but Beaufort, SC is one of my favorite places to fly fish. I've done well on everything from jacks and blues in the surf to redfish, sheepshead, and bonnethead sharks in the flats. Great place to be able to park and wade the flats. Color me jealous. 

[John Mathews]

Eric,

Thanks for the reply.  I got here last June.  So far, I've found this area some what frustrating from the standpoint of access. .  I'm very used to the open sand beaches of Cape Lookout and the lower OBX.  So far, the only beach I've found that is open to the public is Hunting Island.  In addition, all of the fly fisherman that I've met are "one trick ponies" in that they chase reds and reds only.  I joined the local club but have not found anyone that fishes like I could on the OBX.  I'm not too keen on fishing from a boat but that appears to be the best means to reach the fish so I'm getting my boat straightened out and modifying my canoe for flats fishing.  Any input that you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, John

If you're down this way, let me know and we'll sling some string together.

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[Richard Farino]

Eric,

John is talking about Beaufort Inlet, NC, between Fort Macon and Shakleford Banks.  I’ll let John explain why they pronounce it BOH-fert in NC and not BYOO-fert in SC.

I spend a lot of time down there in the fall, and everything John’s said is true, especially the sharks and such.  See attached photo (John may recognize the guy in the photo).  I’ve had big blacktips and sharpnose sharks take albies right out of my hand as I tried to land them.

John – let’s talk at some point…  I’m working with a group that’s revitalizing the Cape Lookout False Albacore Festival for this year.  You might want to go back down in the fall for some fun.

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

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[Eric Y.]

The difference is understood on my end; my folks are regular visitors to Morehead City. But, he did say Beaufort, SC.

I spent a few weeks down there last September and for the last few years I have at least made a quick run down there for a long weekend. You're right, beach access isn't great, but the flats are. Bonnethead, sheepshead, and reds are all readily available by wading and a canoe will open up a lot of water and easy access to jacks. You do need a boat for the cobia. 

Shoot me an email and we can talk specifics. All my "regular" spots down there are productive yet pretty well ignored by most fishermen, so it is almost always just me and the crabbers. 

[Jeffrey Silvan]

My parents moved to Bluffton, SC last summer which is right near Beaufort. I haven't had much time to get fishing out there (in the salt anyway), but my research has similarly turned up that there is pretty limited options for fly fishing from shore. Kayaks are used often (and there's decent flats access if you have your own, much more difficult/MUCH longer paddle if you're renting), but by far the flats skiffs are the weapons of choice. I'll be heading down that way over Memorial Day to visit my parents and get some action on the cobia run. The Broad River and the general area is supposed to have phenomenal sight fishing for BIG cobia that time of year.

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[Richard Farino]

Gotcha..  I missed the original post that mentioned SC, just the follow up when he mentioned the Inlet.

I’ve spent too many days boarded up down there during hurricanes with empty bottles of Makers while guys from both Carolinas goaded each other about pronunciations, which state has the better red fishery, and who makes the best barbecue.

(NC wins the cue test, btw)

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

From: "Eric Y." <theeri...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>

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[TurbineBlade]

Man, I feel so far behind with fishing the surf and SW I might never catch up -- I'm reading the stuff Dan sent about Ken Abrams.  Differences of opinion make things interesting ;).  

Rich -- I know you're an experienced surf guy.  What's you take on lines around here?

BTW -- Off-topic: fished most of the weekend in Bath Co.  Didn't catch or see a thing -- and water was still higher than I had imagined it would be.  We did see a midge/mayfly hatch for about 30 minutes.....light colored suckers in the (surprisingly large) #14 range.  Quill Gordons?? (Definiltely not BWOs like I would have expected).  Had a great time with Beth, flipped rocks and found tons of sowbugs in one spot.  Got muddy as heck, both arms totally scratched up from bushwhacking. Awesome weekend --

Gene

On Monday, March 10, 2014 1:23:42 PM UTC-4, Richard Farino wrote:

Gotcha..  I missed the original post that mentioned SC, just the follow up when he mentioned the Inlet.

I’ve spent too many days boarded up down there during hurricanes with empty bottles of Makers while guys from both Carolinas goaded each other about pronunciations, which state has the better red fishery, and who makes the best barbecue.

(NC wins the cue test, btw)

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

From: "Eric Y." <theeri...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, March 10, 2014 at 11:45 AM
To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Surf fishing -- Floating line = idiot?

The difference is understood on my end; my folks are regular visitors to Morehead City. But, he did say Beaufort, SC.

I spent a few weeks down there last September and for the last few years I have at least made a quick run down there for a long weekend. You're right, beach access isn't great, but the flats are. Bonnethead, sheepshead, and reds are all readily available by wading and a canoe will open up a lot of water and easy access to jacks. You do need a boat for the cobia. 

Shoot me an email and we can talk specifics. All my "regular" spots down there are productive yet pretty well ignored by most fishermen, so it is almost always just me and the crabbers. 

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[Eric Y.]

Agreed on the 'cue test. SC wins by a mile on the redfish, though, if you like wading the flats and really hunting them. I will cede that NC wins if you're talking about catching bulls and fishing from a boat. 

On Monday, March 10, 2014 1:23:42 PM UTC-4, Richard Farino wrote:

[John Mathews]

Richard,

You're right about the Que.  I specialize in cooking Que and make sure I eat the local que no matter where I go and eastern NC has the best.  

In the thirteen years that I lived in Morehead City I can hardly recall a year that we did not have some type of tropical system hit, brush by or threaten that area.  These folks down here have not had a direct hit in over a hundred years.  When the big one hits, this is going to be a hell of a property loss as nothing is built elevated and most property is just a few feet above the high tide mark.

Good luck on the cobia.  

John

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[John Mathews]

Richard,

Good to hear from you.  Yes, I know the guy in the pic, Chuck Laughridge.  Chuck is very active in the fly fishing community there in the Cape Lookout area.  He, the Cape Lookout Fly Fishers club and the local TDA would be the folks to talk to to get the Albie Tournament back up and running.  There may even be some grant money thru the TDA.  

While I visit the area about twice a year on business I currently have my hands full here with business, fishing, family and club activities but do keep me up to date.  

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[Bruce Mathews]

Hey John-boy!  What was the name of that one hurricane that hit your twice down in Morehead? For those that might notice, John and I both spell our last name with one "t" because I am the middle of three boys and he is the baby brother.  He and I fished all through our youth (when I wasn't trying to kill him) but we drifted apart when I finished college and got married.  It was maybe 8 years before we drifted back together and both lived close by in NC.  He was overwhelmingly a spin fisherman in his youth but he came back to flyfishing in NC.  When he got married and moved to the Morehead,NC area he mostly went back to spin fishing but I sent him an old Fenwick Ferrulite (?) two piece fiberglass rod I picked up somewhere.  It was about an 9' for 8wt with a Pflugger Medialist 1498 reel.  This rod actually had a small but on the end.  Only fiberglass rod from the 60's I have ever seen with that. This got him going in salt water fly fishing and that took him back to fly tying.  Did you give that rod away?  There are guys up here that would like to have it.  I would still rather go fishing with my bro than anyone else I know.

Bruce Mathews
703.772.7167

On Monday, March 10, 2014 6:05 PM, John Mathews <lowcountr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Richard,

You're right about the Que.  I specialize in cooking Que and make sure I eat the local que no matter where I go and eastern NC has the best.  

In the thirteen years that I lived in Morehead City I can hardly recall a year that we did not have some type of tropical system hit, brush by or threaten that area.  These folks down here have not had a direct hit in over a hundred years.  When the big one hits, this is going to be a hell of a property loss as nothing is built elevated and most property is just a few feet above the high tide mark.

Good luck on the cobia.  

John

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Richard Farino <ric...@urbanangler.com> wrote:

Gotcha..  I missed the original post that mentioned SC, just the follow up when he mentioned the Inlet.

I’ve spent too many days boarded up down there during hurricanes with empty bottles of Makers while guys from both Carolinas goaded each other about pronunciations, which state has the better red fishery, and who makes the best barbecue.

(NC wins the cue test, btw)

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

From: "Eric Y." <theeri...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>

Date: Monday, March 10, 2014 at 11:45 AM
To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Surf fishing -- Floating line = idiot?

The difference is understood on my end; my folks are regular visitors to Morehead City. But, he did say Beaufort, SC.

I spent a few weeks down there last September and for the last few years I have at least made a quick run down there for a long weekend. You're right, beach access isn't great, but the flats are. Bonnethead, sheepshead, and reds are all readily available by wading and a canoe will open up a lot of water and easy access to jacks. You do need a boat for the cobia. 

Shoot me an email and we can talk specifics. All my "regular" spots down there are productive yet pretty well ignored by most fishermen, so it is almost always just me and the crabbers. 

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